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Author Topic: A PLACE FOR DEBATE  (Read 48278 times)

Offline Freezer

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #75 on: July 05, 2007, 03:54:56 AM »
Just wanted to give opinions on conspiracy, and pressure from a invisible group.

As you know tesla was on the road to free energy, and was met with a evil force which would do anything to destroy the idea of free energy.  This evil force lies within the energy sector, governments and elitest groups with an endless supply of money.  Steven Mark's couldn't release the information if he wanted too.  If I have it right, he used a companies equipment, and resources.  Its really not even his idea to own.  I would expect these forces are doing all they can to keep him from saying anything, and I bet he's aching to tell.  If you developed this device wouldn't you want to shout it out to the world?  Perhaps.., unless you were met by a force with no limitation, and convincing means. 

I've heard some interviews with so called MIB type military personel.  They have a proceduce in terms of dealing with problems.  First comes the disinformation.  If that don't work, then comes money.  If that don't work, then come the threats, no only you, but against the people you know like family.  If that don't work which is rare, then comes the "smudging."

Lets all assume Steven Mark is what he is, and has the knowledge to build these "TPU's."  Wouldn't he pose a major threat to the monetary systems of the entire planet.  I'm sure if he can do whats alledged in those video's, hes been paid a visit by the ole MIB's.  If thats true they are monitoring this forum, have tapped his house, and have probably tapped many of you :D.  I'm sure if sm's story is true, a intensive disinformation campain is under way, and false information of all sorts will be flooding in.  Doesn't mean we should give up and let them win.  Even if it doesn't work, we will still have gained knowledge in some form or another. 

Its really sad actually.  I see these inventor build something great, and the first thing which comes to their mind is money.  I don't know if they realise that if they freely released their device, millions around the world would build it, and they would be famous. 


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #75 on: July 05, 2007, 03:54:56 AM »

Offline z_p_e

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Settling the debate: What criteria define what a TPU is?
« Reply #76 on: July 05, 2007, 04:05:34 AM »
I'd like to try and settle the debate once and for all, regarding what should be called a TPU or TPU-like, and what shouldn't.

Two of the clearest facts we know about the TPU and how it operates are:

1) The TPU utilizes kicks as part of the energizing/conversion process. The "kicks" being as they are described by SM.

2) The TPU utilizes a rotating magnetic field in its operation.

The rotating magnetic field is somewhat straight forward (relatively speaking) with everyone...right? The "kicks" point however, requires some clarification.

Even though "kick" at this point in time is not succinctly defined, it does not matter for our purpose here. The important point regarding the kick, is that it occurs at the first moment of electron flow...the moment of connection to the source. This is as described in several instances by SM.

What happens at the moment of disconnection is of no relevance according to Steven. He mentions nothing of that. So this fact categorically eliminates bemf (cemf) spikes as part of the process in Mark's TPU.

So, based on the above logic, the following consitutes the criteria for strictly categorizing a candidate device as being TPU-like, or not TPU-like:

1) If the candidate device does not utilize or exhibit a rotating magnetic field, it IS NOT TPU-like.

2) If the candidate device does not extract or convert power or energy at the first instant of electron flow, it IS NOT TPU-like. Note: bemf occurs when the source is disconnected.

3) If the candidate device utilizes both a rotating magnetic field AND the kick energy, then it IS TPU-like.

Now by "plugging in" the characteristics of a device into this criteria cruncher, one should see quite clearly, that neither the ECD, nor the Cook coil qualify as being TPU-like...strictly speaking. Some have stated that the ECD exhibits a RMF, but to date, that statement has not been converted to a demonstration. Until it IS demonstrated, the ECD does not meet any of the above criteria.

If we do not use this criteria to decide what is a TPU and what isn't, then it simply comes down to what we want to be included in TPU-land, and what we don't.

The ECD is certainly a spinoff of the TPU research, so it's debatable if it should fall under TPU-land or not. It still fails criteria 1) and 2). However, the Cook coil has little resemblance to the TPU at all, and does not appear to be even a spinoff of it's research.

If the decision comes down to a matter of opinion, then we'll be debating forever which devices belong under the "TPU" topic, and which don't.

Darren

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #77 on: July 05, 2007, 07:01:16 AM »
I would just like to point out that your requirements on a device to be "TPU like" don't include being made of copper, being wound like a TPU, putting out power on a seperate coils isolated circuit... Or any of those things that really define it. It's obvious that your definitions intent was biased and solely to discredit others. My point is the original TPU footage is what inspired this angle of research therefore it IS related, and that regarding this research as irrelevant because someone who CLAIMS to in contact with Steve Mark says so, is the most insane thing you could do in this perticular field of research.

Don't get me wrong we are getting results that do match to "the clues", but what proof do you have that those words even came from SM? How about just a picture of SM and his messenger standing together? Or a pic of SM in a contemporary situation; aka holding a recent magazine or in front of a new building. Something to confirm that SM has even contacted the person in the last 10 years. I doubt we'll see anything with that much merrit, but some proof, any at all???

Now please feel free to flame the skeptic who's spends time/$ on this kind of research.

~Dingus Mungus

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #77 on: July 05, 2007, 07:01:16 AM »
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Offline otto

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #78 on: July 05, 2007, 07:10:22 AM »
Hello all,

@Darren,

so, you say the ECD is NOT a TPU????

Otto

Offline z_p_e

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #79 on: July 05, 2007, 07:58:24 AM »
I would just like to point out that your requirements on a device to be "TPU like" don't include being made of copper, being wound like a TPU, putting out power on a seperate coils isolated circuit... Or any of those things that really define it.

DM, I'm afraid almost every single point you made is incorrect.

The reason I chose only those two criteria, is because 1) they are undisputable, and 2) they are unique enough in combination to easily identify a candidate device as passing or failing the test. The point of the exercise was to be able to clearly separate the real TPU's from the spinoffs. No other characteristics or device parameters are necessary to do that if the 2 I identified above are used. It's quite simple, if the candidate device doesn't pass 1) or 2), then it doesn't pass...period.

Putting in more parameters such as copper coils, secondary outputs etc, would be meaningless, because these are common to about 3 million other inventions out there. The two parameters I chose above are very unique, especially in combination, and as such would probably eliminate 99% of potential candidates.

Quote
It's obvious that your definitions intent was biased and solely to discredit others. My point is the original TPU footage is what inspired this angle of research therefore it IS related, and that regarding this research as irrelevant because someone who CLAIMS to in contact with Steve Mark says so, is the most insane thing you could do in this perticular field of research.

Stating that my only intent was to discredit others is ridiculous. I've simply created a logical test setup, and either the input parameters cause a fail or a pass. No bias whatsoever.

I agree with you that the videos inspired many. However, where would we be without SM's letters? How would you know any details at all about it from only the videos? Be thankful man that Steven felt comfortable enough with Lindsay to share the clues that he did.

And btw, Lindsay has no influence on me whatsoever regarding which research is TPU related, and which is not. In case you hadn't noticed, Lindsay and I are in opposition over the ECD.

Quote
Don't get me wrong we are getting results that do match to "the clues"...
I'd like to see or discuss those matches. Indulge me.

Quote
...but what proof do you have that those words even came from SM? How about just a picture of SM and his messenger standing together? Or a pic of SM in a contemporary situation; aka holding a recent magazine or in front of a new building. Something to confirm that SM has even contacted the person in the last 10 years. I doubt we'll see anything with that much merrit, but some proof, any at all???

Where did you get all that crap from? It's ironic that you ask for proof that Lindsay has ever been in contact with SM, yet you don't ask for proof whenever someone chimes in with a claim of overunity with nothing to back it up.

Where do you think those letters came from? Lindsay made them up perhaps? If that is the case, then he's done a heck of a job. I've been studying the TPU for over a year, and I have had many exchanges with Lindsay, and I can assure you, he didn't compose those letters.

Quote
Now please feel free to flame the skeptic who's spends time/$ on this kind of research.

~Dingus Mungus

I sincerely commend...and thank you for your contribution. You're not the only one however, I can assure you of that.

Cheers,
Darren

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #79 on: July 05, 2007, 07:58:24 AM »
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Offline z_p_e

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #80 on: July 05, 2007, 08:35:53 AM »
Hello all,

@Darren,

so, you say the ECD is NOT a TPU????

Otto

Otto,

I ask you this...What is a TPU? OR more importantly since we don't know exactly what the TPU is...

What do we know that makes the TPU truly unique?

I am saying, that if we compare the ECD to the TPU using the two criteria I have identified above, those being the RMF, and the kick, and consider the fact that no evidence has surfaced that demonstrates them, it would appear the ECD does not pass the test, and is therefore not a TPU.

Is it really that important to you? If you discover overunity by some other means, why is that not a great accomplishment? If it doesn't work like a TPU yet produces excess energy, what does it matter?

You started working toward a TPU and it developed into somethng else. That's perfectly ok. If you have evidence you can show of a RMF and a kick that is produced at first electron flow, then why not show it?

One thing seems certain; the chances of any one of us hitting on an exact duplicate of SM's devices, are slim, but not impossible.

Darren

Offline bob.rennips

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #81 on: July 05, 2007, 08:37:44 AM »
Happy Days!!
« Last Edit: July 06, 2007, 04:54:09 AM by bob.rennips »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #81 on: July 05, 2007, 08:37:44 AM »
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Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #82 on: July 05, 2007, 09:12:46 AM »
I'm not going to spend hours going through threads collecting scope shots, but positive results have been claimed to have been seen by half a dozen members. They're all achieving these effects via entirely different devices and designs. I'm asking for proof and I'm winding coils of my own in the mean time.

I was not saying they are observing overunity power production, but combined frequencies producing kicks. I hope we are in agreence on this very simple point. I can also assume we all agree that a HV pulse is pretty much required if we're looking for excess power. I don't see where the spikes position in the scope shot is relevent though. This is the first problem I have with your assursions. What makes a HV feedback at the moment of contact better or more usefull than a HV pulse at disconnection? I don't know considering its energizing a isolated coil at 90 degree to itself...

Now you stated that your two requirements are undisbutable yet here we are in a thread called a place for debate. Do you see the latent problem in that assumption? Either your infallible or it is automaticly debatable by its location at the least.

I'd ask how "almost every single point I made is incorrect", but I figure anyone who disagrees with you on this entirely unfinnished unknown project is wrong too.

I mean really... Who the hell get this upset over two threads being in a heading???
Especially when its NOT OFF TOPIC! Their using the same HF pulses to see kicks! That sounds just as relevent as any of the other 200 plus page threads in this section.

~Dingus

Offline chrisC

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #83 on: July 05, 2007, 09:35:13 AM »
bob.rennips:

Interesting observations on the purpose of NDA's. I would agree the legal implications of NDA precludes any topical discussions to third parties within a usually 2 or 3 year period. Beyond that you are not legally bound(?). I believe this is true.

Since there aren't any specific patents found(?) on the TPU implementations based on videos shown of SM's technology and the 1 year ruling of demo. before patent filing, I can only conclude that whatever happened, whether it's unpatentable technology, discord with that lawyer, conspiracy (Fed.'s) theory or simply the TPU cannot be controlled for safe operations, the person who disclosed these puzzles (SM?) is no fool. The disclosed stuff is just too technical for most people even to comprehend, let alone try to duplicate. Even if it involved a middle man or any other permuttaions, you have to ask yourself, "what is the ultimate purpose?"

I don't think we're ever going to know until the real SM comes clean and unveil his purpose and identity. In the meantime, this journey is indeed exciting!

Regards
chrisC


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #83 on: July 05, 2007, 09:35:13 AM »
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Offline bob.rennips

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #84 on: July 05, 2007, 10:04:47 AM »
bob.rennips:

Interesting observations on the purpose of NDA's. I would agree the legal implications of NDA precludes any topical discussions to third parties within a usually 2 or 3 year period. Beyond that you are not legally bound(?). I believe this is true...


If you don't negotiate an NDA you sign then time limit will be worded in terms of 'forever'. This can be disguised in wording to the effect of - any action that may be detrimental to our ongoing ability to exercise our intellectual rights during the development, commercialisation and realisation of XYZ.

But if there was no NDA or the NDA had 'expired' then no need for a middle man.

I agree the journey is more important. I believe the journey is worthwhile because I believe in an 'Ether' which therefore allows for the possibility of such devices.

Bob Boyce has told us everything we need to build something overunity including coil arrangements. Earl's circuit will allow fine tuning and synchronisation of the phase.

All info. is here.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2637.0.html

I'm taking time to reflect on safety precautions.

Offline z_p_e

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #85 on: July 05, 2007, 04:14:06 PM »
Good grief!

It's becoming more and more apparent that my efforts here are wasted, and I'm not even sure why I bother. I'm always trying to help, and all I get is kicked in the teeth.

It's interesting to see now everyone else coming out of the woodwork and asking brnbade for the missing information, as I was doing from the very beginning, and being berated for it. The response from folks was: "ALL that is necessary is already there".

Better late than never I guess.

I'll be submitting my final 2 contributions, then I'm outa' here.

Cheers,
Darren

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #85 on: July 05, 2007, 04:14:06 PM »
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Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #86 on: July 05, 2007, 10:52:09 PM »
@ZPE

Be serious here...

You're getting kicked in the teeth because 2 threads (ecd and cook) are going to be under TPU heading? How does that affect you at all??? Seriously! Please explain its detremental effects. I'd love to understand how we're hurting you so badly by disagreeing with you. How old are you that you pack up your toys and go home when things don't go your way? Now stop acting like a child and threatening to quit because someone won't listen to you. Can't you understand that NO ONE here knows what they're talking about when it comes to this device? Do you have an operating TPU? Know anyone with one? I didn't think so.

No one wants you to leave as your research here is just as valuable as everyone elses, but you must realize no one here with the exception of Stefan can control what others research. So just because it doesn't match you discription doesn't mean we must quit. So in closing don't quit like this, I have far too much peer respect for you to do something that shitty.

~Dingus Mungus

Offline z_p_e

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #87 on: July 05, 2007, 11:37:40 PM »
DM,

You seemed to have gone off on a tangent, and I'm not sure how that happened. I guess my posts were not clear enough to get my points across, so my fault.

I don't really care at all where the topics are placed. I guess you missed it, but there was a debate going on in the various TPU threads regarding this, I did not start it. Actually, I was only trying to end the debate for good, so we could all get on with things. So, it didn't affect me per se, I was just trying to help resolve it for all of us. Again, just trying to help out, not to stir it up.

My reasons for wanting to leave for a while, you evidently do not understand, and I wouldn't expect you to. Just please don't assume you know them ok?

I've had numerous insights over the last year or so, and only now do I feel I know the TPU well enough to seriously begin experimenting. I came back here recently optimistic that I could foster some objective thinking and approaches, and perhaps share my insights with the group as a whole, but what I have seen and experienced since then leaves me little desire to do so.

All due respect to folks here, but I don't feel most here are ready for serious TPU research, and I take my research quite seriously. That's why I won't share it at this time. In lieu of this however, I have been trying to instill a little more practicality in the way folks approach their work, and their disclosures. Alas, those attempts have been met with great resistance, so again, I guess the folks here aren't ready for that either it would seem.

I assure you my intentions are well placed. Always have been, and will be in the future. Too bad folks see otherwise.

So, rather than spending more hours of my time at the pc meticulously composing my posts and unselfishly helping out, when it evidently goes unheeded, I'll stop neglecting my own work and begin investing my time more wisely.

If you call that acting like a child, then so be it.

Darren

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #88 on: July 06, 2007, 12:29:18 AM »
You know Darren you've twisted my words for the last time, do whatever the hell you want. Sorry if my attempt at asking you NOT TO LEAVE, wasn't enough to show you that we care about your "serious research" or you somehow perverted in your mind to be some sort of insult. I just don't give a shit how you feel about other peoples research and its relationship to your DEFINITIONS. Simply put you say "no its not" and someone else say "yes it is", and Stefan made the call. Thats what this is all about! If not you still didn't explain your reasons for leaving, only that us other members have ruined it over the past year for you somehow... Great explanation, should really clear things up around here.

Anyway stay or leave its not going to stop people from working on ECD or Cook coils, so great, we're down another useful member and nothing else here changes. Congrats. You point still not understood and this little tiny pointless unfounded arguement slows things down in this area of study even more.

No shit you're frustrated. I can't blame you, I'm frustrated too.
~Dingus Mungus

P.S. The way I was raised: It is being a child to blame others for your decisions and actions.

Offline giantkiller

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #89 on: July 09, 2007, 07:09:55 AM »
I can sense the stress. The uprisings abound in cycles just like the waves from a TPU, ECD, coil, ring, whatever.

We need more monkeys or there will never be enough words to go around that make sense.

I watched the study of drunk monkeys on youtube. The statistics are amazing. They are percentile correct on likes, dislikes, preferences. Probably even in the fecal war category of 'flinging poo'. LOL.
I would rather be 'Pissed off than shit on, eh'?

It is never over and no one can leave. Just try...

--giantkiller. This APB just released: Be cool and get things done.

 

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