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Author Topic: A PLACE FOR DEBATE  (Read 43627 times)

Offline sparkman

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A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« on: November 10, 2006, 07:47:53 PM »
In my opinion based on experience here:
Debate is not welcome on this venue. Nor is truth. These things are frowned upon.

 If you are a huckster, trickster, or otherwise fraudulent person you are welcome here. And the hot air that comes with it is also welcome.

Truthseekers will be chastized for asking for truth and presenting the hard questions, as well as asking for presenters to back up their presentations with documentation and science, not gobldegook.

And fraudulent persons will be rewarded for their fakery, and given a pat on the back because it cranks up the intrigue.

This is the present state of affairs here. 

What has taken place recently is deplorable. Hopefully it will improve in the future.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2006, 09:59:51 AM by sparkman »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« on: November 10, 2006, 07:47:53 PM »

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2006, 10:25:55 PM »
I feel I should take part in this thread to voice my prime concerns:

1) We dont know anymore about SM's device today then we did 6 months ago...

2) We don't know who Mannix really is or what his intent on this forum is, considering the first few posts and the promise of observing kicks and recieving diagrams, it would appear the relationship has changed drasticly.

3) Why is Mr. Marks so worried about Stefan digging up information? Go and read the posts from before mannix and marks angry retort in the "eye witness accounts" thread.

4) Why don't we have a patent number yet?!?!?! Are not all published patents availible for free online?

5) Many people have invested much time and money in researching this device and thus far not one observable experiment has been suggested. I though the Idea was to find kicks then build a device, but we haven't even observed excess kicks or "hash" yet?



Now I would like to make it very clear that I am not saying anything positive or negitive about the authenticity of Mannix and Marks words, but I am frustrated in the long process and lack of solid information. The information that has been posted is very vague and has not produced any results for any of the overunity members tests.

Not one person or device has confirmed the theories in mannix/mark posts...

If this was anyone else besides Steve Mark, we would have written them off long ago...
My greatest worry is that it has been someone else feeding us misinformation the whole time...
I'm not claiming thats what is happening now, but it is my biggest worry none the less.

Offline sparkman

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ONE HAS TO WONDER ?
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2006, 12:53:24 AM »
One has to wonder if fraudulent presentations are welcome during slack times when traffic is low. Sudden claims of overunity with no backup documentation makes for good headlines.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2006, 01:20:22 AM by sparkman »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

ONE HAS TO WONDER ?
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2006, 12:53:24 AM »
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Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2006, 12:57:54 AM »
Well thus far its not much of a debate if no one disagrees...

Where are Mannix and CTGLabs at?

Anyone who thinks things are going smoothly in this project please speak up.

Offline CTG Labs

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2006, 01:10:42 PM »
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« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 10:57:11 PM by X »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2006, 01:10:42 PM »
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Offline sparkman

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2006, 04:00:20 PM »
Dave
      Sorry you took this the wrong way, you said:

     "If you want to look at what he has said and say "well, im an expert, why should this create an anomalous effect"then why are you in to free energy research!  You have to forget what you have been taught, same as I did.  If you want to stick with what you have been programmed to believe, then you will go round in circles for ever more."

     You don't know my mind. The typed medium is limited in bandwidth. I never said I was an expert. My ability to think "way outside the box" is what gave me extreme success in life and the accompanying rewards that go to original thinkers. To be an original thinker "beginners mind" is required. To accomplish something new and unique, a beginners mind coupled with strong technical expertise is usually required.
Regarding what "I have been programmed to believe", there are lots of people in the world with no programming whatsoever regarding electronics and physics. You should be handing out baskets of wire, hoping one of them will knit you a free energy coil. Something about a large number of monkeys with typewriters.......Maybe a strong backround tells you where not to waste your time or how not to misinterpret your results.

I have done a huge number of experiments with an open mind, mixing of frequencies, looking for kicks etc. since this began. I did not report the negative results so as not to discourage anyone hoping that maybe one of you guys with a purer mind will find something. I get discouraged seeing people misinterpreting their results as if it was something significant. But I rarely respond so as not to stiffle their enthusiasm and creativity.

"why are you in to free energy research" This is an old saw, something like "if you don't like the country why don't you leave it" in other words to question anything is wrong, we are to believe with the faith of a zealot. I prefer to choose my beliefs carefully.

Getting a compass to spin proves nothing as a compass needle has inertia. A magnetic field can be made to expand and contract in a two pole, four pole configuration and so on. The term in this case "rotating magnetic field" is actually wrong, it is a"alternating magnetic field" or  "sequenced magnetic field". The field grows and decays around each coil. I see everyone sequencing their coils, this is not rotation of a field itself. The percieved rotation is illusion is caused by the mass and attendant inertia of of the compass.

Now I'm not saying that a true rotating magnetic field is not possible in fact, I'm hoping it is as it will change the world. I believe that if the Mark device is real, it uses a true rotating magnetic field as its basis of operation (not an alternating or sequenced field). This is the area of research along with others that I have been persueing.  In fact I googled "high speed rotating magnetic field"  as Lindsay suggested and didn't find anything relevant. Perhaps Lindsay could just supply the link. I promise to be good student and study it carefully.

Why get so upset when anybody questions Lindsay. Is it the fear that he will take his last few secrets and go away?
You should have no such fear because in your own words "You have what you need".
Why does Lindsay keep dropping clues but never a concise experiment that will prove decisively what he is only alluding to. Why has he set himself as the stern teacher not to be questioned. And what's wrong with dating the letters so we can at least know the order they were generated to gain at least a historical perspective. Simple enough request, not asking for "the secret"

When enlisting people for the Manhatten Project, the US goverment assembled strongly technical minds and visionary theoretical physicists. This was not a random out of the hat lottery of US citizens to participate in a project to create something that had never been done before. There was also much debate and strong difference of opinion within the group.

Any group that cannot examine itself becomes a religion, not a democracy. This examination is healthy and along with experimentation will lead to the goal. Those who frown on this as counterproductive can form their religion, complete with mystical beliefs and high priests, a new "cargo cult".

« Last Edit: December 03, 2006, 07:07:59 AM by sparkman »

Offline CTG Labs

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2006, 04:23:13 PM »
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« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 10:55:28 PM by X »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2006, 04:23:13 PM »
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Offline sparkman

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2006, 05:09:44 PM »
Dave , thanks for your reply
You said:
"Steven has said the control circuit which prevents run away has been patented, the collector coils are not.  Personally I dont think one will be issued or applied for because UEC probably bought it to protect their own interests as an energy provider.  If they patent it all, there is nothing to stop us all looking it up and building it for ourselves and still turning the energy business to ruins is there?  So rather than patent it, its better for them to keep it secret?"

  Your argument that UEC is not patenting the device because it would give out the secret allowing everyone to build the device and turn the energy business to ruins is an interesting one. We are talking about many many trillions of dollars here. Don't you think people like SM and Mannix would have been rubbed out a long time ago? Rather they are allowed to slowly release info over the internet with clues how to make a device that would cause powers with incredible wealth to be out of business? This is why I insisted on dating the letters. This part of it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Those videos would have been ripped off Google in a heartbeat. The discrediting and disinformation would be way more severe. What is going on here is more difficult to understand than meets the eye. I don't know the answer, perhaps somebody is pumping it up in the interest of selling a book in the future complete with schematic diagrams and missing clues. There are lots of such books out there because none of the devices work. Did they work at one time, such as the Hendershot device? Perhaps, and maybe Mr. Hendershot was made an offer he couldn't refuse to obfuscate the information. We cannot know.  Besides experimentation, I'm merely trying to be a good Sherlock Holmes and get some real perspective on this. Perhaps SM and Mannix were also made an offer they couldn't refuse. Perhaps the search for kicks and rotating fields is disinformation they are providing in co-operating with the powers to save their own lives. How can we know the truth unless we ask the hard questions.

Best of luck in your research, Sparkman
« Last Edit: November 11, 2006, 05:48:46 PM by sparkman »

Offline MrMag

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2006, 06:31:41 PM »
Hi,

I know I quoted you, but my comments were directed at everyone, not you directly!

I understand why you have not posted your negative test results.  I personally view it the other way round.  If you show your results, then you show other people what you have done and prevent others from going down the same wrong avenues, thus they find their way to other avenues and we cover more ground without duplication and waisted time.

I do not protect Lindsay because I fear the loss information because I as I said I feel I already have the info, now its up to me to find the correct mix, duplicate the valve tests etc.  Infact should it not be the others who should be, as you all want more information?  Push too hard and you scare away the one thing you want?  The fact is SM has given what he is going to give, unless you duplicate the kick with the correct frequencys, nothing more will come from him so people may as well give up asking.  Work with what he has given you, or dont!  You will excuse any comment I have about people not working on the thing because if they dont post sucesses or failures, then we are not to know are we?  You end up looking like a lurker who just waits for the answer.

I take your point regarding the rotating field, it can be a mis-use of the word.  Instead we can say the TPU causes a compass to rotate and this could be due to an alternating field or otherwise.  We cannot tell which, other than SM does confirm there is a rotating field, but we can take this either way I guess.

In anycase, I am very busy with testing and design, I am not going to chase after whitness or anything else who cannot tell you how it works.   

Like I said, I am not here to argue or debate, I am here to find the answer, we have gotten what we are going to get.  Now its a case of we work with what Steven has given us and find the key or we give up.

Steven has said the control circuit which prevents run away has been patented, the collector coils are not.  Personally I dont think one will be issued or applied for because UEC probably bought it to protect their own interests as an energy provider.  If they patent it all, there is nothing to stop us all looking it up and building it for ourselves and still turning the energy business to ruins is there?  So rather than patent it, its better for them to keep it secret?


Regards,

Dave.


I am presently working on a magnetic motor but am fascinated in the Steven Marks unit and have been following this thread with great interest and enthusiasm. I was very disappointed to see some members remove their posts. I can understand if they want to go elsewhere, but they are hurting new members of the thread by removing any information that was there.

Now, to have one come back and say this?

So, I guess it is OK for a handfull to share all information until they are either close or fed up and then remove all of the information so that everyone can start from day 1.

It's just not right!

MrMag

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2006, 06:31:41 PM »
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Offline CTG Labs

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2006, 06:34:23 PM »
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« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 10:55:14 PM by X »

Offline CTG Labs

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2006, 06:40:10 PM »
-
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 10:55:46 PM by X »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2006, 06:40:10 PM »
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Offline sparkman

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2006, 07:57:34 PM »
Sparkman,

I see your comment.  If SM or Mannix were to be "rubbed out" now, it would only proove the devices work.  If they are left alone, it allows the increase of doubt to circulate?  Having said that, people like Paul Brown and others were not so lucky.



Dave.

So Dave, SM and Mannix are then left alone to continue to post the real clues to tens of thousands of people ? How will they (the powers that be) then stop all these people who have saved the clues and info on their hard drives and continue to repost it ? Fact is we don't even know if any of these people that are being "left alone" are who they say they are. I wonder when the book will be coming out and when the "Australian Deal" to produce these devices will be made.  Do you really believe that a small Australian lab will co-partner with UEC to produce these devices shortly as alluded to in the latest letters? And the US government (and the powers that be) will allow it?
      I believe the SM devices may be real and the videos were made to document them,period Past that, I believe some  people who had third generation copies of the videos  decided to release them in order to generate a lot of interest in this device. Whether their motives were pure or not is yet to be decided. People who release any information to the public should bear the burden of proof of the authenticity of that information, otherwise it is all speculation (like this post!).
     
Caveat Emptor
« Last Edit: November 11, 2006, 09:18:17 PM by sparkman »

Offline CTG Labs

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2006, 08:33:16 PM »
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« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 10:55:31 PM by X »

Offline sparkman

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2006, 09:06:17 PM »
Dave,
         I hope I didn't offend you in any way. If I did, I apologize. I can understand your desire to get on with the work. Best of luck in your work, may you have success,  you certainly deserve it.
        I encourage everyone to continue the work with vigor and imagination. This thread is only here to allow a safe haven for the raising of legitimate questions in the hopes they may be answered. Freedomfuel has another similar topic "some questions that need to be asked".

Good Luck All.

Offline CTG Labs

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2006, 09:38:47 AM »
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« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 10:55:46 PM by X »

 

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