Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 522066
  • *Total Topics: 15554
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 5
  • *Guests: 14
  • *Total: 19

Author Topic: Graham Gunderson's Energy conference presentation Most impressive and mysterious  (Read 114713 times)

Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
I've scavenged at least a dozen CRT TVs and monitors over the past couple of years for parts. Each and every one of them has had at least one inductor on the circuit board that is biased by a permanent magnet glued to the ferrite core. Some of these inductors appear to have several windings, some have just one winding.
These circuit boards are built to the lowest possible unit cost. The reasonable conclusion is that the permanent magnets are doing something desirable and useful, since it would certainly cost less to build the circuits without using them.

Of course MH's point still holds. Any reasonable experimenter attempting to justify his use of permanent magnets in some device should be prepared to perform and publish the results of comparison tests showing some significant positive effect of using magnets. I'm quite sure the manufacturers of those TV and monitor circuits I've taken apart could justify their use of magnets. That is, if there is anybody still working there who remembers how to design circuits for CRT-based systems.

Can anyone else?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline hoptoad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1009
I've scavenged at least a dozen CRT TVs and monitors over the past couple of years for parts. Each and every one of them has had at least one inductor on the circuit board that is biased by a permanent magnet glued to the ferrite core. Some of these inductors appear to have several windings, some have just one winding.
These circuit boards are built to the lowest possible unit cost. The reasonable conclusion is that the permanent magnets are doing something desirable and useful, since it would certainly cost less to build the circuits without using them.

Of course MH's point still holds. Any reasonable experimenter attempting to justify his use of permanent magnets in some device should be prepared to perform and publish the results of comparison tests showing some significant positive effect of using magnets. I'm quite sure the manufacturers of those TV and monitor circuits I've taken apart could justify their use of magnets. That is, if there is anybody still working there who remembers how to design circuits for CRT-based systems.

Can anyone else?
Permafield inductors were also widely used in the telephone switching systems of the 1940s-1970s. They were used for very specific relay timing sequences where a fast acting, slow release, or slow acting, fast release relay was needed to control the sequencing of other relays. Ordinarily this sort of timing was achieved with diodes and resistors across the relay coil/s, or heel end or front end copper slugs, and specific contact tensioning.

But in smaller, faster relay switching systems permafield inductors using weak steel magnets coupled to non retentive magnetic stainless steel cores were favoured. Some permafield relays, once triggered, would hold the armature indefinitely without further current applied, until a brief pulse of opposite polarity was applied to the relay coil.

Cheers

Offline ramset

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7148
MileHigh
It would of course  Be "quackery"
Until it is Not.

If this Device turns out to be genuine.. there'll be a lot of Quacking around here !

Your perspective Is By no means Unique.


respectfully

Chet K

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Sponsored links:




Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5231
There are a number of reasons you would want to bias an inductor with a PM field.

Some use it as a means to reduce winding turn amounts-thus decreasing resistive losses,and some to reduce the size of the inductor core to achieve the same result.

The most common-which may be the reason the Gun is using PMs to bias his transformer core,is to offset core saturation current values-in that the core will become saturated using only a small amount of current flow in one direction,and a large amount of current flow in the opposite direction is required to saturate the core with the opposite magnetic flux to that of the biasing field.

What is a magnetic field-what is the magnetic force?

An electromagnetic field is made up of photon's,but what about a PMs field?
We take away the electric field,and we have a field of virtual photons-that is your magnetic force.

Has anyone ever bothered to experiment with electromagnetic fields and a solar panel?

Come on guy's-put it altogether here.


Brad

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
TK:

Let's Google!

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/magnetic-inductors-what-are-they-called/

I was taking some components out of a TV before I recycled it. It was a CRT type, one of the last runs for these.  I noticed screws and other things sticking to these.  These radial open bobbin flyback inductors were wound on a fairly strong magnet.  Everyone knows that an inductor becomes just a resistor once it saturates.  Starting with a core that is magnetized should allow you to store twice the energy.  That is, if you don't drmagnetize the core in the process.  Anyway, this is the first time I have seen these in a product and I have been traring things apart for more than 40 years.  Went looking for an app note for an interesting read.  None of the search terms  I used came up with anything.  Any idea on what these are called?

http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/deflfaq.htm#dshlc

Horizontal Linearity Correction

Since there is non-zero resistance associated with the components (mainly coil losses) in the yoke circuit (yoke winding, ESR of S-cap, etc.) the world is not quite as ideal as one would hope. Without compensation, this resistance would result in non-linearity of the picture - it would tend to be squashed on the right side as the resistance saps energy from the yoke circuit.

The waveform becomes a damped sinewave, which will be 'undamped' by restoring energy during the flyback.

One way to deal with this is to add a magnetically biased saturable inductor in series with the horizontal deflection yoke. This is called the linearity coil.

Its core is magnetically biased near the point of saturation such that the inductance decreeases with increasing current and this helps to stretch the right hand side of the scan. In other words, during the scan the coil saturates so that the inductance decreases. At the end of scan there is practically no voltage left over the linearity coil so that the deflection coil gets maximum voltage.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Sponsored links:




Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
TK:

Google II from the Power Guru!

http://www.powerguru.org/maxflux-%E2%80%93-magnetically-biased-inductor/

MaxFlux – Magnetically Biased Inductor

Utilising the core to its fullest!

In modern topologies the inductive components require most of the space and contribute significantly to the total weight and system costs. Therefore the biggest potential for achieving a compact and cost efficient system lies in the optimization of these devices. Most of the effort made in the last years was focused on the thermal management and using better soft-magnetic materials in order to reduce the volume.

By Stefan Herzog, Alexander Stadler and Christof Gulden, STS Spezial-Transformatoren Stockach GmbH & Co. KG, Stockach, Germany

However, for a specific class of inductors there is a further opportunity for optimization. In topologies such as buck or boost and PFC SMPS the inductors are usually used in a unipolar way, i.e. the current flows only in one direction of the coil. In these chokes only half of the theoretically maximum swing of the flux density is realized. This article deals with the technique of biasing the core with a permanent magnet in order to reach the full swing. The result is a choke which is smaller, lighter and more economical compared to existing constructions.
Working principle

Biasing the soft-magnetic core with a permanent magnet is a principle which has been investigated for a long time [1, 2, 3]. Even more recent work deals with this tempting technology [4, 5, 6] . However, up to now no commercially available solution is known, where the biasing method is used in serial production.

The biasing technique concerns unipolar applications, for example storage or PFC inductors. The typical current characteristic of the first class is shown in figure 1.

Offline DreamThinkBuild

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 569
Hi Spokane1,

Thank you for that information. The loop design changes the field going through just the ends of the central core. It doesn't make sense to me in that configuration because any change in the drive coil is fighting against the loop. Instead of switching, if the polarity were all equal, it would be halved through the output. I don't really understand that configuration enough without doing some small tests.

The tuning/spacing sounds like it took years. Maybe each magnet assembly could be mounted to non-magnetic linear bearings, nylon rods, worm gear and driven by a stepper motor. Have a micro-controller move the magnet assemblies while sweeping the input waveform through the drive coil and monitoring the output. Eventually it may hit a sweet spot, but if you need a robot to tune it I don't know how practical it would be if another magnetic field in the area can throw it off.

Hi Tinman,

I've tried solar panels(both poly and mono crystalline) with different magnet arrangements on/near/around them (moving, spinning and non-moving) and didn't measure any benefit. Laser diodes though will activate solar cells.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Sponsored links:




Offline Spokane1

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 130
Dear DreamThinkBuild,

Here is a recent photo from last Monday of Graham's machine with the PM clamps removed. The PM's that are remaining are self supported.
I suppose that you can determine the likely polarity from this arrangement. In this test he wasn't using any spacers.

Keep up the good work on the simulations. I wonder what is happening in the main core.

Mark McKay

Offline ramset

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7148
@ All
Below are more thoughts on Graham's device from member Smudge

@ Note to Spokane 1
At this forum if the posted pictures are too big [bigger than 1200x1000 [I think??}}we have to run across the page to read it.

respectfully
Chet K
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 11:11:24 AM by ramset »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline gyulasun

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4062

....
Let's Google!
....


Well if you do a search inside this forum...

This coil type with the added ceramic magnet to fine tune coil inductance was discussed here,
see this link for instance
http://overunity.com/3500/nathan-stubblefield-earth-batteryself-generating-induction-coil-replications/msg199535/topicseen/#msg199535

The bottom line is that as Spokane1 wrote above, if the output power of this device depends
strongly on exact tuning then the use of permanent magnet(s) on the ferromagnetic core
to fine tune the LC tank is a convenient means to achieve exact resonance condition.

There is another consideration, however, and that is said by some people:
you can influence the electrons spin in the core by an applied outside magnetic field and
together with simultaneous other excitation of the core the overall effect may result in some extra output.

The problem is that if you remove the biasing magnets, you need to find means to retune
the coil to the same inductance it had with the presence of the magnets, to be able to tell
whether the influenced electrons spin yield any output or not.
So very careful adjustments and measurements have to be applied.

Gyula

Offline ramset

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7148
In a perfect World a man Like Graham would have unlimited resources and equipment
he would not have to work with repurposed pieces.

so methods or "bench smarts" he utilizes to achieve his result should not be considered
"quackery"

But more so considered a very good understanding of the media he works in and just how skilled he truly is
Turning a Ukulele into a Stradivarius on a shoestring budget should be commended not ridiculed .

we are most fortunate to have him sharing.

respectfully
Chet K

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
so methods or "bench smarts" he utilizes to achieve his result should not be considered
"quackery"

respectfully
Chet K

Well, the laws of physics don't get "waived" just because you are all excited.

Look at the attached pictures.  The main magnetic circuit is an inverted "u" with
the primary on the high-permeability horizontal core piece and the two secondaries on
the two vertical low-permeability core pieces.  There is no closed loop in that magnetic
circuit but presumably the three separate core pieces are nicely magnetically coupled with
nice flat surfaces flush to each other.  There is presumably enough magnetic energy
storage capacity in the three core pieces to effectively couple the primary to the
two secondaries.

Then all of the ceramic biasing magnets are arguably nothing more than window dressing
imposing some kind of DC magnetic bias on the main inverted "u" magnetic circuit.  As
we all know from basic electronics, any kind of DC magnetic bias will have no affect
whatsoever on the three coils which only react to AC changes in magnetic flux.

Will all of these DC biasing magnets affect the resonant frequency of the LC tank circuit?
(I think it is between external capacitors and the primary coil.)  The answer to that is
most likely yes, it will have an impact on the resonant frequency.

So, what would happen if you removed all of the "window dressing" DC biasing magnets?
Presumably the resonant frequency would change.  Therefore, you would need to change
the frequency that the electronics circuitry was running at to match the new resonant
frequency.  Alternatively, you could keep the same operating frequency for the electronics
circuitry and simply adjust the capacitance in the LC tank circuit so the two frequencies
line up.

In simple terms:  The expectation is that a new setup with all of the DC biasing magnets
removed would be functionally equivalent to the current setup with all of the DC biasing
magnets in place.  The laws of physics are not going to change in this setup as compared
to any other setup.

MileHigh

Offline Reiyuki

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
Quote from: MileHigh
Well, the laws of physics don't get "waived" just because you are all excited.

When it comes to Electrical Engineering, many of these laws operate non-linearly or in one-way interactions.

As we crack this nut, in the end, the solution will probably end up looking similar to the solution found to the 'heavier-than-air flight' problem.

What was needed for heavier-than-air flight?   Strong forward thrust on a lightweight craft with a large wing surface area, and adequate control surfaces to manage the entire system.   (Strong impulses on an efficient transformer with variable permeability, and  precise control circuitry to manage the entire system...  hah, just a though)

If we're talking about a static, non-parametric system, I certainly agree with you, that 'heavier-than-air flight is impossible' :P .


Quote
Look at the attached pictures.

  Sorry, that flux direction note of mine was incorrect (as Spokane1 pointed out a couple days ago).  I incorrectly assumed the dots represented polarities, but in reality the magnets are in a closed loop (N-S) with the high perm ferrite in the center.  I guess that throws off the rest of your analysis above.


  The interaction in this setup is obviously complicated, and requires some extensive math to properly model.   You're dealing with a flux loop and multiple permeabilities with abruptly interrupted loads.  Each of those can have non-linear interactions, that might be combined in ways to allow a more complicated process to transpire.  Consider other non-linear and parametric systems and how they interact, and the entire process starts to make more sense.

Offline Spokane1

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 130
Dear Builders,

For those of you getting materials to join this technical hay ride here are some reference measurements that might be handy:

The top and bottom support plates are 1" thick (I know they look thicker in the photos)

The smaller of the plastic threaded rods (8X total) are 1/4" diameter and made of 6/6 Nylon. I don't know the size of the two larger rods. I'm going to order 3/8" rod.

Graham use G-10 for his primary coil form. He recommends using Polycarbonate instead. He made a jig composed of two large hardware "L" brackets to wind the primary.

The main core has a bottom dimension of 100mm it looks like 4" to me with 1" arms

Don't attempt to find exact replacements for those PM's. The orange paint is to tell Graham that these are Barium Ferrite magnets. We will have to do the best we can with mortal magnets
about the same size. I'm starting with some small Class 8 units from Applied Magnets for $0.023 each. If you can get the same size you will need at lease 72 of them and probably more to
make up the difference in strength.

http://www.magnet4less.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_6&products_id=255

McMaster-Carr has all the nylon rod, nuts, washers, and 1/16" polycarbonate sheet you will need

Graham has a small vertical CNC mill that he used to cut all the acrylic and the small magnetic spacers.

Spokane1



Offline Reiyuki

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
That's news to me.  Which laws are you talking about?  Certainly magnetic systems like transformers are inherently non-linear in their behaviour, but that is a given and it has always been that way.

  Suppose you could charge an inductor with 10a of current while it is 10uH, and then discharge it when it is 1H.  Or for dielectricity, imagine charging a capacitor to 5v while it is 1uF and discharging it when it is 1F.  Graham's setups may very well work on different principles, but this was the type of parametric variation I was referring to.


Quote
I thought that the nut was already cracked last year.  This information has been available since 2015.  However, it has been one full year since the release of this information and I am not aware of any successful replications, are you?

  Replication of anything is exceedingly difficult until you begin to understand the principles behind it.  Damascus steel from millenia past was found to be covered with carbon nanotubes that gave it an increased strength.  It wasn't until post-2000's that we discovered the details and principles behind it ??? .

  Following that concept, I think that exploring the unique switching mechanisms he uses will help us gain a better understanding of the operating principles rather than blindly trying to replicate.


  I do appreciate you playing devil's advocate and ensuring we maintain scientific principles, and if you have a direction you think we should be headed, please let us know.  Lets just try not to veer too far off topic.  If you think it's a fraud, say so.


   :) rei

 

OneLink