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Author Topic: Graham Gunderson's Energy conference presentation Most impressive and mysterious  (Read 114580 times)

Online EMJunkie

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I wouldn't touch that with a 10 FOOT POLE.  It looks too much like
Daniel Poperlou's circuit.  Yeah, Daniel's circuit lights a light bulb, BUT
do you really think you can Duplicate his Rat Nest?  LOL

http://overunity.com/393/daniel-pomerlou-demonstrates-free-energy/#.V4gQqtQrKHs

                                                                                                                       .


In 1859, the Earth suffered a rather frightning event.

The Carrington event of 1859 - the largest solar flare ever recorded

The Sun, 149.6 million km's away from the Earth, had a coronal mass ejection (CME), this hit the Earth after 18 Hours.

When hitting the Earth, it sent the Telegraph Systems into complete dissaray. Setting fire to parts of it and destroying a great portion of it.

Do you think after 18 more hours the effects Lenz's Law reached the Sun?

Daniels Coils are very likely arranged to do something similar... Induction, via a small scale pulse in comparision, from the Motor and or the switch on event, the arrangement vs the frequency, probably could be calculated: 3×108 m/s divided by X Hz = X metres

0.02M between the two standalone Coils indicate a Frequency of about: 15000MHz or 15GHz

Not that I wish to attempt a replication, I leave that for others, but this is an example of how I try to use Diakoptics to see how something may work.


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Online EMJunkie

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Chet, some Scopeshot anaylsys on your agenda? Would be nice to get some different angles on this. I think k4zep is pretty close.


Quote from: k4zep http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20199-energy-conference-graham-gunderson.html

In looking at the waveforms on the scope. It appears that there is a lot going on that was not discussed or stated in the "transformer". IF you look at the one complete Sine wave and consider it to be 360 degrees and the resting time to be another 180 degrees, we see several interesting things that must be considered. Starting with the load on the output in the Syn. rectifier, and the input going down, you see the voltag leading the current by about 90 degrees both in the input current and the output current normal transformer operation.

 It still is a normal waveform as the sine wave continues upward through 270 degrees. Sometime after 270 degrees, the sync. rectifier is turned off for a very short period of time and then turned back on. ALSO the H bridge is off/open circuit for 180 degrees after the end of the 360 degree cycle so the transformers input coil is floating during the Energy generation portion of the final 180 degree free floating cycle. All the energy (magic) generation occurs in the last 90 degrees of the normal 360 degree cycle and the additional 180 degree "Rest" period.

 Starting at the 270 degree point in the normal waveform, when the load is removed from the transformer and the voltage from the H bridge is approaching zero volts and open circuit, There is a VERY high voltage (+?) pulse in the Primary of the coil reaching 15-1800 volts that is immediately clamped back down (before punching through the input FET's), by the output circuit and then the extra energy generation begins. I "think" there is a HF burst 20-50 VAC, maybe higher, in the RF range, shown as hash on the input resting voltage and the output integrated current waveform. The current REVERSES (clamped by a diode?)back to the input stage and continues most of the time during the resting 180 degree in a positive direction (additional power) in the output stage. This is where the power is generated in the output and where the negative power is added to the input stage. Correctly tuned, that negative return clamped current in the input stage can force the circuit to appear to be operating at +/- zero power. That burst is probably coming from the input core when it is biased properly by the perm. magnet field.(Hence the "Implosion transformer") Is the sync. detector ALSO rectifying the burst pulses, it would have to be considering the waveform????? Or is that just handled by a normal bridge rectifier in parallel with the Sync. Rect. circuit, who knows. I noticed a large multi-wire cable going from the Sync. Rectifier back to the timing board. There was a lot going on in that circuit that the scope hid due to frequency constraints to the probes I think. The output current (extra power) is the integration of that burst by a large amount during the resting period.. Well that's what came to me while I slept last night. This wanders all over the place I hope it is clear enough.

 Ben


No sign of the big diode in the circuit doing anything there, unless it is the clamp that Ben mentions, I personally cant see this. I would expect to see a Flat, or Zero current if it was clamped? The Fets are the only rectification at least from what I can see. Internal Diodes in the Fets will also play a role in the Rectification/Non Rectification here.

We really do see Current and Voltage through much of the cycle, it appears as if the DC Caps may live a short life with the Plus and Minus Current Cycles...

Input I to V Phase Shift: 89.5 Degrees <<<--- Input Power is nearly completely Reactive. (Where have I heard this before)...
Input I to Output I Phase Shift: 20 Degrees
Output Syncronous Rectification turn off: 244.125 Degrees
Output Syncronous Rectification turn on: 248.625 Degrees
Wave distortion could make the above 2 figures incorrect.

Figures are an approximation, based on the image that Reiyuki very kindly posted!!!

Please correct me if I have any of this wrong... I certainly do not wish for others to read this as gospel if it is wrong!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 05:52:17 AM by EMJunkie »

Offline ramset

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member Smudge has done a ruff analysis from the Photos

respectfully

Chet K


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Offline ramset

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In a perfect world, waiting and patience are the polite thing to do.

in the world we live in today , such technologies [if actual] can truly save lives !
How does a man wait when "that" is at stake ?

and then there is the fact that some of our members [maybe me too] are getting older,  and waiting has a whole other perspective...

Time is an asset which can not be guaranteed or taken for granted.

just one mans opinion.

respectfully
Chet K

Offline Reiyuki

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Is Graham Gunderson going to truly open-source this stuff?  If yes, then perhaps waiting for that to happen would be the wisest course of action.

  Yes.

  In fact, it already is open-sourced, just poorly documented.  The problems of having a job, a family, and a passion ;D .  Graham has not kept any secrets and answered every question I had when I had the opportunity.  He'll even admit upfront that he doesn't know exactly why it works, and challenges others to figure out how it works.  That plus the precise measurements with 2 different types of equipment puts him far ahead of most experimenters.

  As for replicating, we have plenty to work with and more detail than most claimed systems on this forum.  Even those without the tools for a direct replication, people can always contribute in other ways (equations, modelling the dynamics, contributing schematics, hell, even CAD modelling helps).  No sense waiting for godot when we have so much to work with already.

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Online EMJunkie

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member Smudge has done a ruff analysis from the Photos

respectfully

Chet K



Most awesome work Smudge!!!

Thanks Chet for posting this!!!

This does however present some confusion for me.

Smudge says:

Quote

Note that during this period there is no load on the secondary to consume power.


in the Context:

Quote

The saturation knee has been set to coincide with the current level at the kink in the current waveform. If the core material were linear the ratio of flux to current either side of this line would be a constant value, but clearly this is not the case. It seems that above that line the material has lower mu, has moved into saturation, while below that line the material has higher mu, below saturation. This now offers an interesting possibility. In the high mu region, at high inductance, the system has produced current at virtually zero power loss because of the phase quadrature.


then Smudge goes on to say:

Quote

This shows the output current waveform and the load switch region. I have to admit to being completely baffled by this waveform since it is showing current outside the load connected region.


Being that there is a very good chance that the Mosfets have internal Diodes, and if the Circuit on the Output is a correct implimentation of how Graham is using the Mosfets as a Syncronous Rectification, then we should see conduction in both directions of the Cycle as is shown, only if the Mosfets are on.

This we do see. The Mosfets are switched off, 244.125 Degrees,  then on again abruptly at approximately 248.625 Degrees on the Output Current wave form.

If there was no Conduction of the Output Coils, then we should see Zero Output Current flow on the Scope where the Output Coils are "Not Connected"??? (Mosfets are Off...) Similar to the half bridge retification image below.

We see Output Current flowing in the Red (Positive Current) and Black (Negative Current) portions of the wave form, there is not any Zero, non conduction periods, except for the Turn Off and Turn On again.

Someone please explain where I have this wrong!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 03:47:14 AM by EMJunkie »

Online EMJunkie

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What if, there appears to be no load, but that the Load really is connected...

There appears to be no load, because there is no reflected Magnetic Field back on the Primary Coil... Lenz's Law is not affecting the Input... Thus the Reactive Nature of the Input is not Damped...

After all, Power is the product of Voltage x Current, anytime there is Current and Voltage present, DC especially, not so much AC Reactive, depending on the Phase Angle, there is an Active Power component...

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


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Offline Reiyuki

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What if, there appears to be no load, but that the Load really is connected...

There appears to be no load, because there is no reflected Magnetic Field back on the Primary Coil... Lenz's Law is not affecting the Input... Thus the Reactive Nature of the Input is not Damped...

After all, Power is the product of Voltage x Current, anytime there is Current and Voltage present, DC especially, not so much AC Reactive, depending on the Phase Angle, there is an Active Power component...

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


  It is not switched that way.  In a synchronous rectifier, the way he has it set up, the two coils are being alternately shorted, not shorted against each-together.

Reactive power and phase-angle is likely indeed important, but as you can see in the device, there are a LOT of factors at play (multipl permeabilities, unique driving circuitry, unique interrupted load, and an input ferrite saturated 'to the knee').  If any of these factors were not critical, it is likely they would not be in the final product he had presented us.

Offline gotoluc

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I've been playing with this a little and it looks like I can get a similar wave form with just using 36vdc chopped by a mosfet switch around 21.7kHz with a 33% duty cycle to a primary coil which has a 0.002uf capacitor connected in parallel tuned to resonance (21.7kHz).


Yellow is a x100 Voltage probe across primary coil, Blue is a Tektronic P6021 current probe on negative of primary coil, Red is the product (math) of V x I and Purple is the DC output of the secondary (after FWBR to a 27,000uf cap with 20 Ohm load).


Luc

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Offline TinselKoala

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It would be interesting to know the actual value of the Purple trace. Its baseline is offset below the display area. Does the Measurement of 4.07 Vrms represent the actual value or just what is shown on the screen, from the bottom graticule marker to the trace itself? The question mark indicates unreliable measurement, doesn't it?

Nice work, as usual, anyhow.

Offline Reiyuki

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  Anyway, since we're starting to evolve into proper analysis of this, I might as well post the rest of my photos/notes from the presentation.  Enjoy ;D :
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B0_1dJJ_ezEmSzZMRmxNSFkwZmc




Well, based on what we see in that PDF things are very murky and unclear.  Why don't you ask him for a complete schematic and bill of materials for the device, and also ask him for a complete test setup description including a test setup schematic with clearly indicated test points and test waveforms and test data?

  I answered that in the previous post.  Job and family come first, and I realize the hundreds of hours that went into building and tuning the actual devices, plus the hours on top of that I spent gathering firsthand information to share with the rest of you.  I wouldn't blame him for taking a couple months off after all of this.
  Besides that, I'd like to consider him a mentor and guide rather than a babysitter.  Surely, with our collective intellect we can design an equivalent timing circuit and synchronous rectifier without his help?


Quote
Don't get thrown off by the "unavailable cores" business or the business about "multiple permeabilities" in a magnetic circuit.  That is not "secret sauce" and a suitable substitute magnetic core implementation is easily doable.

  Agreed, it's probably not the 'secret sauce', at least by itself, because it's been thoroughly tried before.   But his setup as a whole has a unique configuration that I have not seen tested anywhere else around here, and since there is much detail already present, I thought it an interesting direction to pursue.


Quote
The virtual self-flagellation when it comes to these claims where you agree to suffer without proper information needs to come to a positive resolution.  I don't think the majority of people interested in this stuff are mental masochists.

  Run through the new material above and tell me what you think we might need next.  I think we have enough information to start exploring in this direction.  And since it's relatively unexplored, there should be much to learn :)

-rei
 

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Offline gotoluc

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It would be interesting to know the actual value of the Purple trace. Its baseline is offset below the display area. Does the Measurement of 4.07 Vrms represent the actual value or just what is shown on the screen, from the bottom graticule marker to the trace itself? The question mark indicates unreliable measurement, doesn't it?

Nice work, as usual, anyhow.


Thanks TK


ch 3 (Purple trace) should be okay as its vertical position is set to -4.00. Its side arrow shows off screen (down arrow) after you pass -3.96


Luc

Offline DreamThinkBuild

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Hi Reiyuki,

Thank you for all the information, based on your pictures I made a interpretive drawing of the switching. The multi-material may be a way to force it to take the path of least resistance so to speak.

The only thing that is really throwing me off is the top bias magnets are they also N<->N (S<->S) pointing outwards or N<->S?

The magnets on the outside where they are parallel to the main coil are also of interest, in the top view picture. The joined south poles could form a split in the center of the main coil making north dominate until the drive coil forces it out of balance.

Again these are only my interpretations with the current data which could be wrong.

Offline Spokane1

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Dear DreamWorker (or something like that)

All the nice work you did was probably based upon the diagram that Graham sketched for Reiyuki at the conference.

That arrangement didn't make sense to me either, so I asked Graham about it. He said the he was attempting to show Reiyuki some other construction feature about the bias magnets - I couldn't follow what that was, however Graham did assure me that all of the PM's were aligned in the same direction to form a continuous magnetic loop.

The little white dots on the end of the PM's are casting notes to establish which end of the magnet was at the top of the mold. Apparently there is a significant variation of intensity from one end to the other. Graham was using Barium Ferrite magnets that he had in his personal inventory. The dots don't indicate polarity.

Speaking of the bias magnets; if you look at the photos that Reiyuki has contributed you will notice a spacer between the PM's and the surface of the central transformer core. This is a 5/16" or 3/8" machined piece of acrylic. Graham describes how he spent a fair amount of time "tuning the bias field" by using different thickness (and materials) for spacers. Changing this spacer also requires a slight change to the operating frequency. Graham has a lot of experience using PM's to modify the core magnetic dynamics. He was doing this kind of technique 10 years ago. On his work bench he had about 4 different thickness of spacers. The thinner ones (down to 1/6") were of a white material not unlike polyethylene.

Speaking of core magnetic dynamics. Graham says that when the machine is running the magnetics in the lower "C" core is not the same as that which is flowing in the upper "C" core. He said this is not normal in a closed magnetic core even with different permittivity's.

The lower "C" core is a common 100mm (4") HC90 with 1" square legs (or arms). The core is composed of two "C" sections with 0.005" of Mylar sheeting (one on each leg) for a total gap of 0.010".

Maybe you can salvage your simulation and add the impact of the spacers.

Also, those 18 bias magnets on the top of the apparatus are also responsible for a significant amount of performance improvement. I certainly don't see how being that far away. Graham said that he could hold a few magnets in his hand at a distance of about 24" from the operating device, rotate them and watch his output lamp vary in intensity. That is some sensitive device. This only shows how narrow the window of operation might be.

Spokane1

Offline MileHigh

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The moment you see actual permanent magnets incorporated into some kind of magnetic circuit that is effectively functioning as a transformer then warning bells should be sounding.  Except for a very few specialized applications, adding permanent bar magnets to magnetic circuits to "bias" them is usually nothing more than electronics quackery.  The simple test is to run the setup with the permanent magnets in place, and then run the setup without the permanent magnets in place.  The reasonable expectation is that the circuit will perform better and have more power headroom without the permanent magnets.

I anybody builds this (Do we know what the configuration actually is?) then I strongly recommend testing it with and without the permanent magnets.

Also note that depending on the magnet, you may be demagnetizing your permanent magnet when you place it in some sort of AC transformer setup.

 

OneLink