Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Custom Search

Author Topic: car energy consume improvements  (Read 23932 times)

Offline Paul-R

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2084
Re: car energy consume improvements
« Reply #60 on: September 16, 2023, 12:44:34 AM »

I don't see a NEED to combat CO2 emissions. CO2 is the breath of life, without it, Earth turns into the Moon...;
AC is right. You have no more idea than Trump who said, during the winter, that it was cold and some global warming might not come amiss.

Offline onepower

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1102
Re: car energy consume improvements
« Reply #61 on: September 16, 2023, 01:08:41 AM »
ramset
Quote
Yes, Batteries storage has always had issues ..from the mining to (lithium recycling??)

Yes some batteries have more issues than others but not "all batteries"

For example, the nickel-iron Edison cell uses common materials, potassium hydroxide (potash) electrolyte and has been proven to last hundreds of years. It is still the best battery for very long term reliable energy storage for renewables.

The newest solid state battery technology is almost unbelievable. It could charge faster than the time is takes to fuel a vehicle, uses abundant cheap materials and has an energy density higher than gas/diesel. It's a game changer but like any technology has a lengthy development time.

Remember, the Internal Combustion Engine was invented around 1800 and it took over 200 years of development to get it to where it is today. 200 YEARS, so I'm not sure why so many people are having a meltdown over the the progress of battery technology. The progress is moving magnitudes faster than the development of any fossil fuel engine.

The biggest problem is that many fossil fuel companies have been buying controlling shares in cutting edge battery companies then purposely bankrupting them or shelving the technology. It's often done through foundations, investment funds or offshore shell companies.

For example, the Alfred Hubbard technology was bought by a radium company which was a subsidiary of a major oil company. The moment the oil company bought the rights the technology was never heard from again. We should have had free energy in the 1950's however these sadistic power hungry people in the fossil fuel industry kept burying the technology or killing the inventors. The most sadistic people/corporations appear to come out of Texas where most oil people originally made there money. Victor Schauberger was also lured to Texas, destroyed and left for dead. Texas is to oil what the Sackler family is to opioid addiction.

AC



Offline Cloxxki

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1030
Re: car energy consume improvements
« Reply #62 on: September 16, 2023, 02:28:49 AM »
Those solid state batteries have been hyped for about a decade now. What can I purchase, right now?
The most powerful EV companies have been investing in solid state for years. NIO have been promising a 150 kWh ET7 sedan for years as well. Somehow, it's not here. You can only order the 75 and 100 kWh versions, still.

Even at the 360 Wh/kg or so promised by NIO (automotive wet cells sit at 270-280 Wh/kg maximum), assuming the cells won't exothermically combust in any way and are greener and sweeter than angel's farts...still are utterly rubbish for crucial use cases such as ships and planes. Small crafts that don't need to go far and only slowly, sure that will work, but those kind of with on wet Li-Ion as well. Just spend a godawful amount on a small boat or little plane and it WILL go slowly for a short voyage and make you look like a green virtue signaling rich #$^@ traveling in it or having the butler fetch you some burgers in it.

An actual century ago, EVs were actually the top of the crop. There were city bus services, luxury cars were battery powered and nicer to operate, and for speed records you just needed an electric one. The reasons why EVs didn't lead this automotive centure...are still valid today. And worse than a century ago, EVs are actually a good bit more expensive than equivalent ICE vehicles, despite the huge scale of battery and e-motor production nowadays. Why? We started expecting motorway speeds from cars, ocean crossings from ships, and near-mach transoceanic from planes. Even if battery energy density would work for planes today (it's off by about 10-20 fold I would say), the planes would add several hours to an ocean crossing flight of say 10 hours.

If we can get low cost water splitting, steam cars and planes would become pretty attractive. Hydrogen on demand...rocket engines. And for cars a silent but wasteful fuel cell to electric conversion.

Offline SolarLab

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 965
Re: car energy consume improvements
« Reply #63 on: September 16, 2023, 05:37:10 AM »

Wondering if these "Boost Converters" have any "Gain"

So, I'll assume none of you guys know (or can figure out) whether these Boost Converters
have any "Gain" associated with the designs.

Oh well - thought someone might have some idea! Lots of chatter, and what not, but nothing
technical. 

Thanks anyway... Have a good one!


Offline kolbacict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1390
Re: car energy consume improvements
« Reply #64 on: September 16, 2023, 08:33:27 AM »
Wondering if these "Boost Converters" have any "Gain"

I'm afraid to assume that this is one of Dr. Holcomb's devices "Boost Converters" ?

Offline SolarLab

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 965
Re: car energy consume improvements
« Reply #65 on: September 16, 2023, 08:41:41 AM »
I'm afraid to assume that this is one of Dr. Holcomb's devices "Boost Converters" ?


Don't assume anything. Have a quick look at the attached PDF's - then you'll know for sure!

It's been an on-going common design challenge for a while already... And not just for EV's - lots of
innovations like this are happening all throughout industry right now. Quite exciting actually!

Some very good $$$,$$$ to boot; if you're an experienced consultant/contract designer/developer
in this area... long term, also.   Plus - you might just discover some "excess energy" along the way!

Hey, like I've promoted many times - get that Engineering and CAE course work behind you ASAP...
unless you want to spend another 10+ years talking nonsense and babbling on these forums!  ;)


Offline onepower

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1102
Re: car energy consume improvements
« Reply #66 on: September 16, 2023, 09:17:33 PM »
SL
Quote
So, I'll assume none of you guys know (or can figure out) whether these Boost Converters
have any "Gain" associated with the designs.

As shown yes there is a gain in efficiency.

Coincidentally, I don't have a bench power supply and build my own buck/boost/cuk DC/DC converters as needed. There really simple and I have probably build hundreds. I prefer using a micro-computer with PWM, low resistance mosfets and fast switching diodes. I have also used synchronous rectification before but it's seldom necessary. I often test HV circuits above 30kV+ which could feedback through a ground connection so a cheap purpose built converter is a must.

On your post, the gain is obvious and the higher the voltage in the working circuit ie. motor the lower the heat/resistance losses. Simply put doubling the voltage cuts the current by half at any given power level. The current flow produces the heat/resistance/copper losses not the voltage. So it pays to use a converter to run a HV motor well above the battery pack voltage in EV's.

Most people don't get this because they don't understand the concept of energy.

Power is Volts x Amps, so 10,000V x 1A= 10,000 watts and 1V x 10,000A also equals 10,000 watts. However the low voltage/high current power would have magnitudes higher losses than the high voltage. In effect, anyone running a motor or any electrical system at low voltage/high current doesn't understand energy or efficiency.

For example, an incandescent light heats the filament to incandescence to produce light. It generates 80% heat and 20% light which is absurd. Where an LED excites the material causing oscillations which emit a given wavelength of light and minimal heating. Ergo, large heat losses in conductors or circuits is generally a sign of incompetence.

The Tesla hair pin circuit is a good example of what's possible. There were people lighting a 100w bulb underwater with tiny 30 gauge conductors. The trick was the blocking capacitors on both circuit legs which limited the current flow. The energy flow is high but the current flow is very low which many people have trouble wrapping there mind around.

AC










Offline SolarLab

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 965
Re: car energy consume improvements
« Reply #67 on: September 16, 2023, 10:33:53 PM »

SL
As shown yes there is a gain in efficiency.

...

On your post, the gain is obvious and the higher the voltage in the working circuit ie. motor the lower the heat/resistance losses. Simply put doubling the voltage cuts the current by half at any given power level. The current flow produces the heat/resistance/copper losses not the voltage. So it pays to use a converter to run a HV motor well above the battery pack voltage in EV's.

Most people don't get this because they don't understand the concept of energy.

Power is Volts x Amps, so 10,000V x 1A= 10,000 watts and 1V x 10,000A also equals 10,000 watts. However the low voltage/high current power would have magnitudes higher losses than the high voltage. In effect, anyone running a motor or any electrical system at low voltage/high current doesn't understand energy or efficiency.

...

AC



"Simply put doubling the voltage cuts the current by half at any given power level"

If this were a "Transformer" device, I would agree (minus the losses); but this is a "Boost Convertor,"
not a transformer, [plus 200-300 Vin - 400-800 Vout].

This is the mistaken assumption most (all) guys made when evaluating the Holcomb devices!

Anyway, I'll just leave it there...

 

Offline SolarLab

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 965
Re: car energy consume improvements
« Reply #68 on: September 17, 2023, 02:35:36 AM »
HINT:

As you study the various "Convertor - Invertor" topologies found in the papers, keep in mind
they generally involve a single inductor with  a single winding. Although some authors do mention
the B-H Curve, they are usually concerned with only the inductance and not magnetic gain aspect.

Recall - a small "H" can induce a large "B" in a "soft magnetic material." This is where some
significant "magnetic gain" can be achieved. Combining this "knowledge" with a Boost Convertor
might have some significant effects!  8) This has been proven in the Holcomb devices.

Further, combine a B-H Curve related Boost Convertor with an Inverter topology... (as found in
modern high RPM [many pole] ICE generators that employ an inverter [keep the inverter input
capacitor charged - KHz]

Just a little "food for thought!" This is where a good CAE Analysis platform is handy... a quick try
it out before spending money on a brass-board prototype.

Good luck and happy designing!  :)   Anyway, enough of this chatter....




Offline ramset

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8055
Re: car energy consume improvements
« Reply #69 on: September 17, 2023, 03:03:45 PM »
Here a range extender or aux power unit
10kg
32kw
Cost estimates 100.00 ?
https://www.aquariusengines.com/#breakthrough
How it works https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a2XvZWnR8-w
Talk about simple design ?


Toyota has néw ammonia engine which they say will bankrupt EV industry


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpxp8FMafbc

Also Ford has some ammonia engine in the works
Reason =Zero Co2 emissions using ammonia


Yeesh ammonia……;(

Offline adrouk

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 47
Re: car energy consume improvements
« Reply #70 on: September 17, 2023, 04:28:49 PM »
And what method is used to obtain ammonia as alternative to hydrogen ?

Offline onepower

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1102
Re: car energy consume improvements
« Reply #71 on: September 17, 2023, 04:43:28 PM »
SL
Quote
"Simply put doubling the voltage cuts the current by half at any given power level"
If this were a "Transformer" device, I would agree (minus the losses); but this is a "Boost Convertor,"
not a transformer, [plus 200-300 Vin - 400-800 Vout].
This is the mistaken assumption most (all) guys made when evaluating the Holcomb devices!
Anyway, I'll just leave it there...

Of course I'm not talking about a simulation or assumptions but building, using and testing hundreds of DC/DC converters. In fact I used a DC converter in my two capacitor paradox tests and posted the data at OUR seen below. Capacitors don't lie, in the graph C1 and C2 is measured in Farads and E1 and E2 energy in Joules.

The science is very easy to understand, in a boost converter the input power(V x I) produces a magnetic field. When the same magnetic field collapses in induces a voltage and current output proportional to the magnetic field change. The voltage and current can change but the power remains unchanged minus the losses.

AC

Offline lancaIV

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5167
Re: car energy consume improvements
« Reply #72 on: September 17, 2023, 04:50:58 PM »
Ammonia is nitrogen and hydrogen mixed  !
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/gac-and-toyota-develop-ammonia-engine-90-co2-reduction
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pcm4fCDQ4dY&pp=ygUJI2VuZ2luZXdzMazda also in ammonia engine car R&D ,Ford did have participation in the Mazda company .



100 US$/KW the aquariusengine !
Remembers the 'Stelzer Motor ' !
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stelzer_engine

As really cheap range extender : the Reinhardt engine-genset

https://dreamer3000.wordpress.com/the-reinhardt-turbine/

10 US$/KW the 2008 engine costs estimation !
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/04/concept-compact-twocycle-cogenerating-pistondriven-turbine-to-deliver-60-efficiency.html
Comparison Reinhardt/INN  :

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HcC8mPoYe8g

Toyotas ic engine mass production costs are near 10 US$/KW !



We shall not forget ic engine fuel kind conversion R&D :

6 lt/100 Km water hydrolysis ic engine :    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi4EZikqXJE

wmbr
OCWL

Offline Cloxxki

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1030
Re: car energy consume improvements
« Reply #73 on: September 17, 2023, 11:09:19 PM »
AC is right. You have no more idea than Trump who said, during the winter, that it was cold and some global warming might not come amiss.
We all know that people who bring in Trump on a totally unrelated topic are the true sages of the early 21st century...
You do realize that you're volunteering to compare me to the single most popular man in the most powerful country on the planet? Plot twist: you actually didn't know but you hate two people now so you feel there is nothing more natural than to associate them to each other for a very far fetched reason.

If that's what you intend to use as a "burn", you might be THE person to help us all figure out alternative fuels...

Trivia: Why are Canada and Europe no longer under a thick ice sheet?
Answer: Actual climate change happened.
Bonus: Same answer applies to a lot of things I doubt you're well aware of, considering the chilling burn you volunteered.

Offline Cloxxki

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1030
Re: car energy consume improvements
« Reply #74 on: September 17, 2023, 11:14:09 PM »
Ammonia is nitrogen and hydrogen mixed  !
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/gac-and-toyota-develop-ammonia-engine-90-co2-reduction

Found: "the exhaust gas from the actual ammonia-fueled engines contains unburned ammonia, nitrogen oxides (NOx), and nitrous oxide (N2O), and there is a need to develop technologies to remove these harmful substances."

NOx is what is crippling the farming and construction sectors, depending on local brand of politics.[/size]