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Author Topic: Ok...this is odd!! (shielding)  (Read 7251 times)

Offline Creedo

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Ok...this is odd!! (shielding)
« on: November 06, 2006, 05:59:59 PM »
I have this medium sized ring magnet here at my office that I use as sort of a fridge magnet to hold paperwork to my metal cabinet. I also have this small candle that has a metal lid....bear with me here... The top of the lid is domed slightly. So I was sitting here on the phone and started figeting with the magnet and the lid AND some paperclips. I put the magnet on the inside of the lid and it stuck there VERY strongly. I thought "Hey... I'll make the top of the candle lid a paperclip holder. I then took a handfull of paperclips and put them on the top of the lid... guess what... they fell off... no magnetic power AT ALL!!!

So.. how is this candle lid able to sheild from anything sticking to the outside of the lid if it can stick so well to the lid from the inside? Whatever this metal is it sure as heck can sheild the magnet.

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Ok...this is odd!! (shielding)
« on: November 06, 2006, 05:59:59 PM »

Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: Ok...this is odd!! (shielding)
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2006, 07:08:11 PM »
Sounds interesting

I just tried it here with one of those small 1.5 inch candle foil silver things, about 12mm high. Dropped the candle out but no difference.

Can ya post a picture of this material?

Regards

Sean.

Offline konduct

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Re: Ok...this is odd!! (shielding)
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2006, 07:58:02 PM »
I would imagine that since the candle top was dome shaped, that the magnet would attract the paperclips from the outside, but not the inside is because of the air gap or distance between the magnet and dome.  From the outside, the ring sits right on top of the dome correct?  But from the inside, the ring would stop short of the top, because of the decreasing radius of the dome.  Make sense?

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Re: Ok...this is odd!! (shielding)
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2006, 07:58:02 PM »
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Offline Creedo

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Re: Ok...this is odd!! (shielding)
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2006, 08:53:08 PM »
Sean - Hehe.. we spell our names the same! I too am a Sean.... Anyways wrong material... those little votive candles are in an aluminum cup. This was a glass candle with a metal lid with an ever-so-slight domed top... The magnet is roughly 2" in diameter with a ring thickness of 1/4"X3/8". So the magnet has about a 1-1/2" hole in it. I placed this dead center on the INSIDE of the lid... the concave side. If I had to guess at the airspace it left I would say no more than 1/8". The lid was non-magnetic on the other side...... not enough to pick up a paperclip anyways.

Konduct - I even tried doing the reverse with the magnet (placeing it on the top of the dome) and the same fact applied... the metal was non-magnetic on the inside of the lid as well.... whatever this lid is made of is doing a great job of canceling the magnetic field on the other side.

I'll take pics tonite... maybe a video as well... not sure if this is any kind of significant info.... just was interesting to me.

Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: Ok...this is odd!! (shielding)
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2006, 09:05:40 PM »
Tis the Irish way of spelling Shaun as you probably know LOL. So hence explains where the mad side of nature comes from LOL !!

Think I will understand more when I see your pictures.
I will try any material I come across to try shield these little devils!. Have placed most things from crystals to liquid gel in the hope of finding summit !!!
I have sandwiched various metals between various plastics following searls ideas and spent alot of time messing around.

Hey you got to keep trying, oneday someone might just stumble on something.
Have got some granite shavings coming this week as saw on a website somewhere that it does distort the magnetic field. Also interesting to notice that the infamous David Hamel uses granite as rollers on his Cone design.

Like I have said before, I am not a great one for playing with scientific stats etc, I just get my hands dirty and shrug my shoulders alot hehe
 
Look forward to the pictures.

Regards

Sean.

Sean - Hehe.. we spell our names the same! I too am a Sean.... Anyways wrong material... those little votive candles are in an aluminum cup. This was a glass candle with a metal lid with an ever-so-slight domed top... The magnet is roughly 2" in diameter with a ring thickness of 1/4"X3/8". So the magnet has about a 1-1/2" hole in it. I placed this dead center on the INSIDE of the lid... the concave side. If I had to guess at the airspace it left I would say no more than 1/8". The lid was non-magnetic on the other side...... not enough to pick up a paperclip anyways.

Konduct - I even tried doing the reverse with the magnet (placeing it on the top of the dome) and the same fact applied... the metal was non-magnetic on the inside of the lid as well.... whatever this lid is made of is doing a great job of canceling the magnetic field on the other side.

I'll take pics tonite... maybe a video as well... not sure if this is any kind of significant info.... just was interesting to me.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Ok...this is odd!! (shielding)
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2006, 09:05:40 PM »
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Offline xingu

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Re: Ok...this is odd!! (shielding)
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2006, 09:16:17 PM »
Hi Creedo,

This is very interesting. Could you also give some more specifics on the magnet itself?

regards
Xingu

Offline pese

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Re: Ok...this is odd!! (shielding)
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2006, 09:34:07 PM »
Hallo , das ist eine einfache Sache.  Diese starken Paperclipmagnete von ca 30mm  Durchmesser , enthalten auf der Vorderseite  3 Magnetsysteme mit je 2 Polen (N S) !!!  So gibt es 6 Magnetpole !!    Wenn Ihr nun mit einen  Metall Blech oder nur Paperclips diese Pole kurzschliesst  = Magnetjoch , so k?nnen keine Magnetfelder mehr nach aussen wirken . 
Das ist das totale Geheimniss , wenn mann weiss das dieser Magnet NICHT N und S auf entgegengesetzten Fl?chen hat , wie das bei  anderen Magnetscheiben ?blich ist.    Teste dies mal aus mit einem Kompass oder  einem normalen Magnet , so findet Ihr die  Vielzahl der Magnetpole auf EINER Seite ! 
Pese

Google (revised translation):
Hello, that is a simple thing. These strong PAPER tie-clip magnets of approx. 30mm diameter, contain 3 magnetic systems with 2 each Pole (N S) on the front!!! Thus there are 6 magnetic poles!! If you short circuit now with metal sheet metal or only PAPER tie-clip these poles = magnetic yoke, then no more magnetic fields can work outward.
That is the total secret , if man does NOT know this magnet N and S on opposite surfaces has, how is usual with other magnet disks. , Then you find the multiplicity of the magnetic poles on a side to test this times out with a compass or a normal magnet!
Pese

This way it is to understand , that all 3 magnetfields (at one side) will be shortet by paperclips .

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Re: Ok...this is odd!! (shielding)
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2006, 09:34:07 PM »
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Offline Creedo

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Re: Ok...this is odd!! (shielding)
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2006, 09:57:46 PM »
Hi Creedo,

This is very interesting. Could you also give some more specifics on the magnet itself?

regards
Xingu

The magnet itself is basicly a 1-1/2" diameter wafer and about 3/8" thick with a 1" diameter hole. The magnet looks to be iron ferite.... not sure. Its black and looks as if it has a few tiny chips in it. It has some decent strength for its size. And it actually came from a paperclip container. I use it mainly to hold paperwork to the side of my metal cabinets at my office.

Offline Creedo

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Re: Ok...this is odd!! (shielding)
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2006, 04:35:52 PM »
Got home late last night, will post pics tonite! Sorry for delay...

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Re: Ok...this is odd!! (shielding)
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2006, 04:35:52 PM »
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Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Ok...this is odd!! (shielding)
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2006, 02:03:38 AM »
You may want to also test to see if multible poles are exiting on the face of the ring magnet.

just my 2cents...

Offline pese

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Re: Ok...this is odd!! (shielding)
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2006, 01:44:42 PM »
@D.M.

jes DM
you have find it.
3 Magnets are on sourface with 6 poles.
Paperclip will short this.

I have to try it to explain before some days
in my unpolished english

Pese

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Re: Ok...this is odd!! (shielding)
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2006, 01:44:42 PM »
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Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Ok...this is odd!! (shielding)
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2006, 10:51:02 PM »
Well that would explain what creedo is expirencing then, the magnetic flux is travelling through the closest conductor to the nearest opposite pole. This means the paper clips on the outside of the concave metal dish and too far away because the flux has already found a shorter path to travel from pole to pole.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Ok...this is odd!! (shielding)
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2006, 06:53:16 PM »
The magnetic flux always travels the shortest possible distance. In this case it just goes via the metal lid and the airgap to its other pole, so on the other side of the metal there is no flux coming out. It just travels entirely inside the metal. So the paper clips fall off.

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Ok...this is odd!! (shielding)
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2006, 08:27:34 AM »
The magnetic flux always travels the shortest possible distance. In this case it just goes via the metal lid and the airgap to its other pole, so on the other side of the metal there is no flux coming out. It just travels entirely inside the metal. So the paper clips fall off.

Not always though Stefan, that only happens when the object can handle the flux saturation, if its satuation point of the metal is to low or its mass is too low it wont fully absorb the field and some will escape the otherside. If you simuate this in FEMM you will see some of the flux lines do escape its just not dense enough to saturate the paper clip. I highly suggest anyone interested in magnetism go an download FEMM free here: http://femm.foster-miller.net/

 

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