Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: Reiyuki on May 22, 2016, 07:15:27 PM

Title: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: Reiyuki on May 22, 2016, 07:15:27 PM
Here's the question for everyone:
  "Does displacement current generate a magnetic field?  If so, where and at what angles?"

Either answer can have some wild ramifications, so think carefully.


(I'll be updating this post with new information as the topic evolves, but I'd like to see what your own thoughts are on the matter)

Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: Dog-One on May 23, 2016, 08:42:33 AM
I'll step up to the plate.  No guarantees, only a swing or two at the ball.


We mostly know what an electron does right?  As far as electrical current goes.

Okay, so think for a moment.  An electron has a negative electrical charge.
Now ask yourself this:  Where does this charge come from that the electron
carries around with it?

???

Does it matter?   Something gives it charge right?

So is there any reason this thing that gives an electron a negative charge
have to be bound to an electron?  I don't think so.  Charge is charge.  It
can be associated with a particle of matter like an electron or a proton or
be completely on its own without any association with matter.

So charge can create current and it can be massless, or mass, or a
combination of both.  Current is the key here.  It's not just sitting
there.  It is displacing, changing, moving.  The current creates the
magnetic field.  Then the current must be charge in motion.  I would
say lightning is charge in motion, but does it create a magnetic field?
I think so.  I do not know for sure.  Not something I have played with,
but once and I lost four hours of consciousness doing it.

Your question is a good one, because with more than one type of
current, the magnetic fields created by these varieties may have
different properties, each with their own utility.

A couple years back I looked at a concept known as Tetryonics (http://tetryonictheory.com/).  I'm
not convinced this theory is accurate, but it did promote some
imagery that helped to understand what things might be doing.
The way in which charge moves is very likely the key to understanding
how a magnetic field forms.  My hunch is the magnetic field always
works at right angles to the vector of charge motion.  When the
charge is associated with a spinning mass, you can imagine the
field it creates is likely rotational in nature.  The interaction of
multiple spinning masses would then produce a very complex
pattern of magnetic flux.  These would line up in a way to create
minimal stress within the localized area.  The rules would be
obeyed, whatever those rules truly are.


Looking forward to reading what others have to say about this
topic.


Some may want to spend some time with this one:
http://tetryonictheory.com/t111

M@
Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: lancaIV on May 23, 2016, 03:01:23 PM

capacitive winding:http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=DE&NR=20317795U1&KC=U1&FT=D (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=DE&NR=20317795U1&KC=U1&FT=D)
application:
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/mosaics?CC=WO&NR=2009154492A2&KC=A2&FT=D&ND=&date=20091223&DB=&&locale=en_EP
Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: Reiyuki on May 23, 2016, 06:12:42 PM
Thanks Dog-one and Lanca

Quote
Dog-one: My hunch is the magnetic field always works at right angles to the vector of charge motion.

That's a good way to explain it.

With this explanation, it would mean that charging a plate capacitor would create two opposed axial fields (twisting/spiral magnetic fields), one on each plate.  One plate CW, the other plate CCW.
Those fields would disappear as charge is built and current stops flowing as the cap is charged.


@lancaIV
You see exactly where I'm going with this, eh? ;)

Lets take the above analysis where a charging/discharging cap creates a CW and CCW magnetic field, and apply it in reverse:
  If we create an expanding CW field and CCW field opposed to each-other, does that mean we just synthesized a capacitor?
Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: Dave45 on May 24, 2016, 02:17:40 AM
Why does an electron only create a magnetic field when its moving, why not at rest?
When its energized is it spinning and not at rest?
Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: John.K1 on May 24, 2016, 01:33:11 PM
Why does an electron only create a magnetic field when its moving, why not at rest?
When its energized is it spinning and not at rest?

Hi Dave, I can imagine that every electron is actually little magnet, if they move chaotically the magnetic field cancel. Once the electrons move in one direction their magnetic fields alignes and you get measurable value. Not sure if there is such thing as electron in the rest.
Title: Continuing on the thought process...
Post by: Reiyuki on May 24, 2016, 09:48:49 PM
@dave,
  If we're following the electron model, I'd agree with John.K1, that spins are present but chaotic, and when moving they order themselves.  Coherent vs chaotic.  I suspect unipolar induction math could mathematically describe the behavior.   Wattsup would likely explain it under nuclear "Spin Conveyance" model and ignore electrons entirely.


Continuing on, the question is whether dielectric current has an associated magnetic field:

If the answer is 'Yes', then it likely means:
 * With coils, extra energy might be extracted from our capacitor to do to real work, as it is charging or discharging.

 * A charging/discharging capacitor may be literally boosted by applying a magnetic field as it is charging.  It would look like 'Tesla's Notes on a Unipolar Dynamo' spiral, but instead applied to capacitor plates.  A capacitor made of two opposite pancake winding instead of plates would be incredibly efficient.   (see: 'Mislavskij transformer')

If the answer is 'No', then it likely means:
 * Displacement current is literally superconductive (transmits energy without losses).

 * Since it's not bound by magnetism, displacements faster than C might be allowed (since compression waves can propagate faster than individual particle velocities).  I believe Don Smith mentioned dielectric propagation at 1.53c.

 * If displacement can occur >C, then it means a fast-discharging capacitor can create free displacements elsewhere in open space.

I think the answer is probably a bit of both (magnetism on the plates, but not in the dielectric).



With these concepts in mind, all of a sudden many of the proclaimed OU systems start to make sense ;)
Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: lancaIV on May 25, 2016, 06:01:16 PM
Electromagnetic engine
electromagnets with capacitive (instead dd batteries) windings :
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19820817&CC=US&NR=4345174A&KC=A (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19820817&CC=US&NR=4345174A&KC=A)


http://members.shaw.ca/w.elliott/takahashi.html (http://members.shaw.ca/w.elliott/takahashi.html)
https://www.google.com/patents/US4551645 (https://www.google.com/patents/US4551645)
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19920901&CC=US&NR=5144529A&KC=A (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19920901&CC=US&NR=5144529A&KC=A)

http://web-japan.org/nipponia/nipponia28/en/feature/feature01.html (http://web-japan.org/nipponia/nipponia28/en/feature/feature01.html)
http://www.inovacaotecnologica.com.br/noticias/noticia.php?artigo=010115040512 (http://www.inovacaotecnologica.com.br/noticias/noticia.php?artigo=010115040512)


http://news.mit.edu/2012/a-novel-ultracapacitor (http://news.mit.edu/2012/a-novel-ultracapacitor)


http://www.newcastleinnovationenergy.com.au/capabilities/supercapacitor-technology
Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on May 25, 2016, 07:36:04 PM
Hi lancaIV,

Thanks for those patents. I've found a patent of a four plate capacitor with some interesting "claims" of glowing, getting cold and self running. It seems he wants to use the cooling effect for air conditioning, maybe some kind of Peltier effect going on between the plates.

CN1104390 - Voltage magnificator, four-pole plate capacitor and permanent cell

https://www.google.com/patents/CN1104390A?cl=en (https://www.google.com/patents/CN1104390A?cl=en)
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=CN&NR=1104390A&KC=A&FT=D (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=CN&NR=1104390A&KC=A&FT=D)

Looks like two inner plates with a static HV DC source and then the outer plates are spiked with DC pulses.

EDIT:

Hi Reiyuki,

Here are some of my notes on effects of spinning dielectrics these are usually opposite of homopolar generators. If the dielectric is spun through a charged field then it will show magnetic properties according to the Rowland Effect.
Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: lancaIV on May 25, 2016, 09:09:38 PM
DC pulses: Dirac surges ?
Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: myenergetic on May 26, 2016, 02:52:35 AM
Here's the question for everyone:
  "Does displacement current generate a magnetic field?  If so, where and at what angles?"


Hi there
Here is my take on the issue.
In order to try to address your question, the question should be properly defined.
1, If your question is based on the Maxwell displacement current then “Maxwell displacement current” either in vacuum or in dielectrics, neither generate magnetic field nor are sensitive to external magnetic fields. In other words current in dielectrics “The polarization current” does not act with potential forces on other currents and “external magnetic field” does not react with kinetic forces to the action of other currents.
2, Displacement current is a quantity appearing in Maxwell's equations that is defined in terms of the rate of change of electric displacement field. Displacement current has the units of electric current density, and it has an associated magnetic field just as actual currents do. However it is not an electric current of moving charges, but a time-varying electric field.
To conclude the above I quote from
“Harry McLaughlin” https://www.quora.com/profile/Harry-McLaughlin
a. A "changing" electric field CANNOT create a magnetic field
b. A "changing" magnetic field CANNOT create an electric field “end of quote”
3, The so-called "displacement current" term(1/4π)  ∂E/∂t  is not some current density generating magnetic field, as Maxwell supposed. This term gives information about the conduction currents which have been interrupted in the neighborhood of the reference point.
4, For what it worth, we cannot measure magnetic field produced by displacement currents but we can measure exactly the field of the interrupted conduction currents. Even if the details are not so obvious and require a skill to understand but what the equations imply is that the electric and magnetic fields depend only on the source charges. It is our orientation relative to the source charges and their motions that give rise to the details of the fields we measure.

From Maxwell basic equations the only sensible is the existence of ε0 and µ0
∂E/∂x=-Z0 ϵ0  ∂E/∂t
∂H/∂x=-μ0/Z0 ∂H/∂t

And they express that the E field causes the E Filed and The H field causes the H field
WAW what a discovery!!!!

The Equations only express that E and H fields are co-existent, co-substantial, and co-eternal like any two perpendicular sides of a brick neither the length affects the width or the other way around.

Hope it helps
jj
Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: Dave45 on May 26, 2016, 02:56:27 AM
We have been looking at the coil, maybe we to start designing capacitors.
Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: Dave45 on May 26, 2016, 03:04:39 AM
So what are you asking? Does a cap ha e a magnetic field? No it creates an electric field.
Does dielectric current create a magnetic field in a wire,yes an L c circuit shows this, the coil produces a magnetic field
Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: Reiyuki on May 26, 2016, 04:15:48 AM
So what are you asking? Does a cap have a magnetic field? No it creates an electric field.
Does dielectric current create a magnetic field in a wire,yes an L c circuit shows this, the coil produces a magnetic field

  When we charge or discharge a cap, in (see pic), a change takes place in the dielectric.  We know energy moves across (series resonance), but I cannot find much information on the actual properties of the 'current' that facilitates this.  Most importantly:  how fast is the propagation between plates?  Does it have magnetic properties, like magnetic flux?  And what are the losses if not inductive?
  When it is static (not being charged/discharged), there is no energy transfer in the dielectric, so it is a 'neutral' condition.


@myenergetic,  I think I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure how to apply any of it.
Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: lancaIV on May 26, 2016, 11:46:15 AM
We have been looking at the coil, maybe we to start designing capacitors.


http://www.ourenergypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/130-Electrical-Energy-Innovations.pdf (http://www.ourenergypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/130-Electrical-Energy-Innovations.pdf)
Page 9 Induction Coil Coating Increases Generator OUTPUT by 1/3

Are you using it,Dave 45 ? Could you give me the "know-how" ? ;)

 
+
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?FT=D&date=20080812&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=US&NR=7411363B2&KC=B2&ND=4 (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?FT=D&date=20080812&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=US&NR=7411363B2&KC=B2&ND=4)
Conservation of Electrical Energy and Electro-Magnetic Power in Motor, Generator, and Product Components 
Double Wire Winding In the preferred embodiment, double wire winding is used for the inductive winding. In the conventional art, wiring is done in opposite directions. The present disclosure conserves energy by wiring in a common direction. FIG. 14 and FIG. 15 illustrate double wire winding. The figures show how two wires are wrapped around the core in the same direction. As soon as the end of the core is reached, the wires are brought straight back to the starting position and wrapped in the same direction again. The wiring is done in multiple layers.[/size]The two wires used to create a double wire winding are labeled Wire A and Wire B with the associated - or + sign to indicate the direction of current flow. In the figures to follow, the labels "A+, A-, B+, and B-" will be used to illustrate how the double wire winding is connected to the incoming power line and the capacitor. The negative (-) end of Wire B (B-) should be connected to the first incoming power line node and the negative (-) end of Wire A (A-) should be connected to the second incoming power line node. The positive (+) ends of Wire A (A+) and Wire B (B+) should be connected to the capacitor.[/size]

and/or
http://www.arestov.de/index.php/de/elektromotoren/windenergie (http://www.arestov.de/index.php/de/elektromotoren/windenergie)
Beispiel: Eine Windkraftanlage mit Nominial 400 W (Herstellerangabe) erzeugte bei einer Windstärke von ca. 20 m/Sek. eine Leistung von 70 Watt. Nach Umrüstung des Generators auf kombinierte Wicklungen lieferte die Anlage bereits bei einer Windstärke von 5-6 m/Sek. 140 Watt. Bei 10-12 m/Sek. wurden über 320 Watt erzeugt!
translated :
Example: A wind turbine with Nominial 400 W (manufacturer information) generated at a wind speed of 20 m / sec. a power of 70 watts. After conversion of the generator windings combined the plant has already supplied at a wind speed of 5-6 m / sec. 140 watts. At 10-12 m / sec. about 320 watts were produced!

                                                                             Coating these coils ?!
and for the drive side:
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=MY&NR=137586A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=20090227&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=MY&NR=137586A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=20090227&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP)
In FIG. 4, showing a three-phase implementation of the invention for a three-phase motor 410 (which may be substituted for the motor 260 in FIG. 2A), the input wire for phase A is attached to the left terminal of a first capacitor C1, and another connection is made from a right terminal of capacitor C1 to a left terminal of capacitor C2. The input wire for phase B is attached to the left terminal of capacitor C2, and the other terminal of capacitor C2 is connected to a left terminal of capacitor C3. The input wire of phase C is attached to the left terminal of capacitor C3, and the other terminal of capacitor C3 is connected to the left terminal of capacitor C1. [/font][/size]An output wire for phase A is connected from the left terminal of capacitor C1 to the phase A input of the motor. The output wire for phase B is connected from the left terminal of capacitor C2 to the phase B input of the motor. The output wire for phase C is connected from the left terminal of capacitor C3 to the phase C input of the motor. Test results using a motor configured as in FIG. 4 are as follows: TABLE 6Readings  Readings  Workat 410  at 410  PerformanceBaseline  Three Phase  20.5 psi  Implementation462  V  462  V  1.7  A  1.6  A552  W RMS @  185  W RMS @  20.5 psi  watt meter    watt meter552  W per hour  185  W per hour


More info about motor and generator construction and performance improvements:
William Putt
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=william+putt&IN=&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=william+putt&IN=&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search)


Fred Miekka
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=fred+miekka&IN=&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=fred+miekka&IN=&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search)


Sankar Pat ,Ronbach array
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=2&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20130314&CC=US&NR=2013062983A1&KC=A1 (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=2&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20130314&CC=US&NR=2013062983A1&KC=A1)
applied:
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=4&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20111006&CC=US&NR=2011241349A1&KC=A1 (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=4&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20111006&CC=US&NR=2011241349A1&KC=A1)
[0040] As illustrated in Table I (above), the Ronbach magnetic array of both the [/font][/size]electromagnetic generator/motor 1 (FIG. 1) and the electromagnetic generator/motor 1a (FIG. 1A) improve the output of EMF 8 and torque significantly over conventional single-magnet arrays. [/font][/size][0041] Referring next to FIGS. 3A-3D of the drawings, an exemplary design of a three-phase electromagnetic generator/motor which has a Ronbach magnet array and is suitable for implementation of an illustrative embodiment of the windmill generator is generally indicated by reference numeral 10 in FIG. 3C. The Ronbach magnet array of the electromagnetic generator/motor 10 may be compatible with the design of both AC motors and DC motors.
 [/size]

Charles Flynn
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=102&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19930805&CC=WO&NR=9315513A1&KC=A1 (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=102&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19930805&CC=WO&NR=9315513A1&KC=A1)
If the coil is energized in a manner such that the magnetic field of the coil opposes the field of the permanent magnet on which it is mounted, then the north pole of the permanent magnet will short to the south pole of the coil and the south pole of the permanent 5 magnet short to the north pole of the coil. In other words the coil will produce a counter magnetomotive force that opposes, and therefore cancels all or a predetermined portion of the magnetic force surrounding the permanent magnet. If the opposing magnetic field of the coil equals or nearly equals the field surrounding the permanent magnet, the effect is to neutralize or make the effective field of the permanent magnet equal to zero. If it has been reduced to zero in the manner indicted then even if another permanent magnet if brought into close proximity to that magnet it will not be attracted or be magnetically coupled to the permanent magnet whose field has been cancelled and in effect the magnets will be isolated from each other. This happens in much the same way as putting an iron keeper on a horseshoe magnet. Cancelling the field of a permanent magnet has the further effect of blocking outside magnetic fields from reaching or coupling to the permanent magnet whose fields has been cancelled in this way. Therefore, not only does the coil cancel the effect of the permanent magnet but it also blocks or prevents other magnets including other permanent magnets brought into the vacinity thereof from having their fields reach the field of the magnet whose field has been cancelled. In other words the magnet whose field is cancelled is magnetically isolated from other magnets. It is this phenomenon of the present invention that enables interrupting the coupling between the magnets including between a stationary magnet and a rotating magnet, and this condition exists even when relatively large and powerful magnets are used. This also enables a relatively small device to be able to produce substantial rotational force and torque.


If the coil on the permanent magnet is oriented so that when energized the field of the coil is in aiding relation to the field of the permanent magnet, the resultant magnetic force will be increased to at or near the combined fields of the permanent magnet plus the field due to the energized coil. Under these circumstances the permanent magnet will attract (or repel) a second permanent magnet brought into the field thereof such as a rotating magnetic member, and will produce even greater coupling force between the members and at even greater distances between the magnets. This fact can be made use of in the present device to increase the torque generated in some embodiments.

Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: Dave45 on May 30, 2016, 02:50:12 PM
Transformer cores are constructed to eliminate eddy currents but what if you built one to accommodate and collect eddy currents.
Work with the system
www.olympus-ims.com/en/ndt-tutorials/eca-tutorial/what-is-eca/basic
Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: Dave45 on May 30, 2016, 03:15:13 PM
Eddy currents cause bemf in a dc pulsed coil
Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: Dave45 on May 30, 2016, 03:27:31 PM
Wind a coil on a welding rod then position welding rods around the circumference of the coil then wind a coil on top of the rods then more rods then another coil, repeat, repeat.

What happens, the eddy currents circulating in the coils magnify the magnetic field every layer, work with the structure of the field.
Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: SolarLab on May 30, 2016, 06:28:30 PM
Hi there
Here is my take on the issue.
In order to try to address your question, the question should be properly defined.
1, If your question is based on the Maxwell displacement current then “Maxwell displacement current” either in vacuum or in dielectrics, neither generate magnetic field nor are sensitive to external magnetic fields. In other words current in dielectrics “The polarization current” does not act with potential forces on other currents and “external magnetic field” does not react with kinetic forces to the action of other currents.
2, Displacement current is a quantity appearing in Maxwell's equations that is defined in terms of the rate of change of electric displacement field. Displacement current has the units of electric current density, and it has an associated magnetic field just as actual currents do. However it is not an electric current of moving charges, but a time-varying electric field.
To conclude the above I quote from
“Harry McLaughlin” https://www.quora.com/profile/Harry-McLaughlin (https://www.quora.com/profile/Harry-McLaughlin)
a. A "changing" electric field CANNOT create a magnetic field
b. A "changing" magnetic field CANNOT create an electric field “end of quote”
3, The so-called "displacement current" term(1/4π)  ∂E/∂t  is not some current density generating magnetic field, as Maxwell supposed. This term gives information about the conduction currents which have been interrupted in the neighborhood of the reference point.
4, For what it worth, we cannot measure magnetic field produced by displacement currents but we can measure exactly the field of the interrupted conduction currents. Even if the details are not so obvious and require a skill to understand but what the equations imply is that the electric and magnetic fields depend only on the source charges. It is our orientation relative to the source charges and their motions that give rise to the details of the fields we measure.

From Maxwell basic equations the only sensible is the existence of ε0 and µ0
∂E/∂x=-Z0 ϵ0  ∂E/∂t
∂H/∂x=-μ0/Z0 ∂H/∂t

And they express that the E field causes the E Filed and The H field causes the H field
WAW what a discovery!!!!

The Equations only express that E and H fields are co-existent, co-substantial, and co-eternal like any two perpendicular sides of a brick neither the length affects the width or the other way around.

Hope it helps
jj

F.Y.I.

IMHO you are definitely on the "right track!" 

However consider/explain this: A CRT TV tube uses a "gun" structure to create a fast (HV) electron beam that moves towards a phosphorous coated "screen" to form the picture (glowing pixels); and this beam is steered using magnetic fields (the yoke coils)?

Also consider: An RF "Slotted Line" technique (an older but common RF Test and Measurement Instrument) - e.g. two parallel wires spaced close together; a generator at one end and a termination at the far end. If the line is impedance matched at the far end, with respect to the generator sine wave frequency, there is no reflection (narrow band). If the far end termination is a short; current is at maximum (minus line losses) and voltage is at minimum. If the far end termination is open; voltage is maximum and current is minimum. In all cases, except a matched termination, a "Standing Wave" (VSWR for example) will appear along the line, max and min are sub-multiples of the test frequency. It gets a bit more complicated when a "pulse" is used since the pulse contains multiple sine waves (see Fourier analysis).

A "piece-wise linear model" of this parallel wire yields: the conductors are modeled by placing many inductors along the line(s) and between these lines the model contains many capacitors connecting the two lines (the impedance formed between the lines is a complex number consisting of Resistance, Inductance and Capacitance with respect to Frequency and the physical characteristics of the lines and the adjacent environment. It becomes difficult at best to "guess analyze" the characteristics and performance (even when using a Smith Chart and simple coaxial or twin lead lines).

Basics: initially consider how a capacitor, an inductor and a resistance will respond to both voltage (potential difference) and current (movement of charge - and associated magnetic field) with respect to time (t~0 through many cycles or pulses).

Now consider one or more helical coils of conductive wire (a slow wave structure); fed by either or both a sine wave and a high voltage pulse; while also considering the signals velocity of propagation through the system; electron velocity modulation (kinetic energy); the systems impedance changes along the line and terminations; reflections (standing waves); and so forth... Add to this task the fact that  for nearly a hundred years we've used incorrect/incomplete Maxwell's equations which do not consider a Longitudinal wave (a.k.a Scalar) electromagnetic component.

From what I know, Displacement Current is the "gotcha" of Maxwell's equations. It's the "thing" that has no logical/mathematical solution via present day theory (or at least trying to get a good engineering answer from the guru's has yet proved elusive). Someone here mentioned "Tetryonic" theory - it may or may not be a good postulation, time will bare it out, but it is well worth a detailed review/study in my opine.

jj good stuff - [beware of Harry however] - check out Dr./Prof. Constantine Meyl...

FIN
Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: SolarLab on May 30, 2016, 06:55:05 PM
F.Y.I.

Sorry, forgot an interesting reference and answer the first sentence:

http://agni.phys.iit.edu/~vpa/electromagnetic.html (http://agni.phys.iit.edu/~vpa/electromagnetic.html)

Quote from within the above:

"Why not use magnets (instead of electric fields) to accelerate the beam? The force that the electric charge (beam) feels due to a magnetic field is always perpendicular to path the charge follows. Since the magnetic force always acts at right angles to the motion of a charge, it can only turn the charge, it cannot do work on the charge. So, electric fields, which can be oriented to act parallel to the motion of the particles, are used to accelerate particles. Although a particle accelerator complex often has many magnets, these are used not to increase the beam energy, but to control the direction of motion of the particles, pointing or focusing the beam.

Explaining this with a simple analogy, imagine the chair in which you are sitting. You want to roll across the room. The chair is pushing you with an upward force, while you are naturally pushing against it with a downward force. This upward force is perpendicular to the direction you want to go. In order to go across the room, you need another force that will push you parallel to the floor, i.e. perpendicular to the normal force of the chair. You still want the have the force of the chair as well, to keep you off the floor/carpet itself (because dragging on the carpet really burns). Now replace yourself with a small particle, replace the chair with a magnetic field, and replace the person nice enough to push you across the room with an electric field. Now you have a simplified acceleration situation, except in the acceleration process, the beam is propelled to travel because of an electric potential difference, or voltage difference, due to an electric field."

FIN
Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: SolarLab on May 31, 2016, 06:38:29 AM
F.Y.I.

Or even more simply:

Electric charges or Potential Differences can be "exchanged or transferred" either by direct contact (e.g. wire conductor) or by {close} proximity (electrostatic influence).

Current is generally associated with electron "flow" through a conductor and occurs when an electric charge is exchanged between potential charge differences (e.g. a wire circuit with resistance and a battery or oscillatory generator). Within the conductor, electrons "flow" [current] while external to the conductor, magnetic fields "flow."

Electrostatic influence potential difference (charge) transfer does not use a conductor to facilitate "electron flow" therefore no current appears and thus there is no magnetic field. This assumes dry air or a pure dielectric. Arc discharges are beyond the scope here.

The conundrum with Maxwell's equations occurs when a capacitor is considered since there is no direct connection (conductor) to facilitate current "flow" so, it appears, to preserve the "logic" a fudge factor was created. This has come to be known by many names including "Displacement Current". So the question might become; "Does a capacitor have a magnetic field?"

However, if you consider the missing "scalar" part of Maxwell's equations or refer to the original complete equations initially created by Maxwell, there is no anomaly. But this would create another problem (?); that being the likely existence of the illusive {forbidden} aether and the existence of light as both a particle and a wave! Have faith however, there are work-arounds - not too elegant, but, break the problem into both Electromagnetics and Particle Physics!

Also see: http://agni.phys.iit.edu/~vpa/information.html

FIN
Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: Reiyuki on May 31, 2016, 06:27:08 PM
Thanks for all that SolarLab, there's a lot to fully process there.  In general, it seems that exploiting the well defined but often neglected concepts is going to be the way forward, to getting a mathematically (or at least conceptually) modeled device out of all this.


I've had plenty of luck getting voltage from HV displacement, but getting current attached to it is a difficult matter.  Usually I get orders of 100's of volts output but in mere microamps.

Using the concepts you've presented, how do you think that issue could be solved?  Separating source-from-discharge like Bearden's 'degenerate semiconductor'?  Or 'boosting' running currents with high voltage like TK devices seem to do?


thanks,
Rei



F.Y.I.

Or even more simply:

Electric charges or Potential Differences can be "exchanged or transferred" either by direct contact (e.g. wire conductor) or by {close} proximity (electrostatic influence).

Current is generally associated with electron "flow" through a conductor and occurs when an electric charge is exchanged between potential charge differences (e.g. a wire circuit with resistance and a battery or oscillatory generator). Within the conductor, electrons "flow" [current] while external to the conductor, magnetic fields "flow."

Electrostatic influence potential difference (charge) transfer does not use a conductor to facilitate "electron flow" therefore no current appears and thus there is no magnetic field. This assumes dry air or a pure dielectric. Arc discharges are beyond the scope here.

The conundrum with Maxwell's equations occurs when a capacitor is considered since there is no direct connection (conductor) to facilitate current "flow" so, it appears, to preserve the "logic" a fudge factor was created. This has come to be known by many names including "Displacement Current". So the question might become; "Does a capacitor have a magnetic field?"

However, if you consider the missing "scalar" part of Maxwell's equations or refer to the original complete equations initially created by Maxwell, there is no anomaly. But this would create another problem (?); that being the likely existence of the illusive {forbidden} aether and the existence of light as both a particle and a wave! Have faith however, there are work-arounds - not too elegant, but, break the problem into both Electromagnetics and Particle Physics!

Also see: http://agni.phys.iit.edu/~vpa/information.html (http://agni.phys.iit.edu/~vpa/information.html)

FIN
Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: SolarLab on June 01, 2016, 06:13:21 PM
F.Y.I.

The following video's illustrate only one of several approaches to be investigated; others include Velocity of Modulation as seen in Traveling Wave Tubes; electrical current related magnetic field interactions; earth ground effects with respect to potential difference; Breakaway Electrons; and so forth.

Large credits to those who have provided these valuable insights.

Playlist [5 total] - High Voltage Step Down Transformer:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIF_6L5V8Qm79grxbveQTBfKLxwl5RVgv (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIF_6L5V8Qm79grxbveQTBfKLxwl5RVgv)

Individual Videos (some repeats of above):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zilvl9tS0Og (http://)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LtPeCBHtoY (http://)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k06S-01HBqQ (http://)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6ipm6r7h-Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNZFDaEYiDM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZcZkyd9wco (http://)

Consider - a foil (open or split) can be electrically similar to a 'close wound' coil (an "area" of conductive material). Wire insulation is dielectric (similar to PVC pipe). Note also, the system "capacitor - energy storage" mechanism.

Consider - Wimshurst RPM at KHz or MHz (electronic operation at radio frequencies {RF}). Bovin Kacher, TT, etc. replacing the Wimshurst HV generator.

Consider - timing is {most likely} critical (injection; SWR; pulse, load shed/sync, etc.).

One general objective is to "model" the system employing modern CAD/CAM/CAE followed by experimental engineering design verification. As Chris B. (SA) once quoted "Anyone can make anything work once; but it takes a good designer to make it reproducible and work well over time and temperature!"

FIN
Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: SolarLab on June 04, 2016, 04:36:31 PM
F.Y.I.

Note: this is a modified re-post of the above - an account problem (ongoing) makes posting/editing almost impossible (???).

High Voltage Step Down Transformers is one of several approaches being investigated; others include Velocity Modulation (VM) as seen in Traveling Wave Tubes (TWT); electrical current related magnetic field interactions (typically the most pursued theory but little success has been demonstrated to date, by most investigators); earth ground effects with respect to potential difference (new theories are emerging relating to formation/cause of Lightning - "Breakaway Electrons;" {Atmospherics/Geophysics}); and so forth.

Credit to those who have provided valuable insights.

Playlist [5 total] - High Voltage Step Down Transformer:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIF_6L5V8Qm79grxbveQTBfKLxwl5RVgv (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIF_6L5V8Qm79grxbveQTBfKLxwl5RVgv)
Individual Videos (some repeats of above):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwVOp-HPIVE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwVOp-HPIVE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zilvl9tS0Og (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zilvl9tS0Og)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LtPeCBHtoY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LtPeCBHtoY)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k06S-01HBqQ (http://overunity.com/ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k06S-01HBqQ)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6ipm6r7h-Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6ipm6r7h-Y)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNZFDaEYiDM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNZFDaEYiDM)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZcZkyd9wco (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZcZkyd9wco)

Consider - a foil (open or split) can be electrically similar to a "close wound" helical coil (an "area" of conductive material). Wire insulation is dielectric (similar to PVC pipe).

Note the system's "capacitor energy storage/transfer" mechanism- rapid electrostatic charge [KHz, MHz]; electrostatic influence of a second (or more) output coil [very rapid - without current/magnetic slowdown]; then "on demand" withdrawal of energy from the output coil [current/magnetic] to load [controlled by impedance of load]. Extremely rapid Source charging - feeding a relatively slow (current limited by magnetics) discharge.

Resonance assists the mechanism since "R" is infinite (theoretically) and the source/load {coils - parasitic capacitance, intrinsic inductance and lumped resistance} will likely Oscillate as well {if the feed HV feed pulse, etc., are "tuned" to the system} and may include a Standing or Traveling Wave. OHM's Law applied in quick fashion! Just a postulate, but hopefully we will soon know if it holds water, so to speak. Inductive or Capacitive coupling of the system will also have significant implications. Investigate using Slotted Line techniques with (1) series L,shunt C and (2) series C, shunt L [piece-wise linear transmission line model].

Consider - Wimshurst RPM at KHz or MHz (electronic operation at radio frequencies {RF}). Bovin Kacher, TT, etc. replacing the Wimshurst HV generator.

Consider - timing is likely critical (injection; Standing Wave - Oscillation; pulse feed, load shed/sync, etc.).

One general objective is to "model" the system employing modern CAD/CAM/CAE followed by experimental engineering design verification. As Chris B. (SA) once quoted "Anyone can make anything work once; but it takes a good designer to make it reproducible and work well over time and temperature!"

Electrostatic stuff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XofdRjwuAu8&list=PLw28_n7AgcmAAWJzDI_6E6C_gtHoh9u2J (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XofdRjwuAu8&list=PLw28_n7AgcmAAWJzDI_6E6C_gtHoh9u2J)

Lots could be said about these "ou account" problems, and such, but enough for now.
Good luck to all in sorting through this fascinating mystery!

FIN
Title: Re: Does Dielectric Displacement Current generate a magnetic field?
Post by: SolarLab on September 14, 2018, 03:29:25 AM
F.Y.I.

The Derivation of the Formula for Displacement Current

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjOly3h7brs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjOly3h7brs)

The magnetic circulation around any path depends on the electric current linked through the path. The only way to be sure that the current goes through the path is to imagine a membrane bounded by the path. And the same current must pass through the membrane , no matter what shape the membrane takes.

But that is no longer true if the current flows into a capacitor. Then even though current is flowing , there may be none through the membrane. If so, what is the magnetic circulation equal to?
 Seeking an answer to that question, Maxwell took a page from Faraday's book. Changing magnetic flux creates electric circulation, and then as usual, he looked at things the other way around.

Could changing electric flux, he wondered, create magnetic circulation. The answer promised to solve the capacitor problem. As current flows into the capacitor, charge builds up, which creates an increasing electric field between the plates. The electric flux through the membrane can be deduced by Gauss's Law by imagining a closed surface . All the flux goes through the dome shaped membrane and its equal to the charge on the capacitor plate over epsilon naught.

The rate of change of electric flux can be found by differentiating both sides of the equation. It is given simply by the current flowing in the wire. In other words, epsilon nought times the rate of change of electric flux through the dome shaped membrane is the same as the electric current through the flat membrane.

This was Maxwell's crucial discovery :the precise manner in which changing electric flux can generate a magnetic field as if it were a kind of electric current.

In fact, Maxwell himself called this Mathematical term "the displacement current." In other words, the magnetic circulation around the closed path is given, not only by the electric charge for it but also by the rate of change of electric flux through it.

This is how James Clark Maxwell completed the laws of electricity and magnetism.

FIN