Look at this video about starting at Minute 39:00
https://youtu.be/h_Ps1R03WqM?t=39m39s (https://youtu.be/h_Ps1R03WqM?t=39m39s)
There he shows the basic principle by putting a little alloy metal plate into a glas tube with tap or saltwater
and then puts the glas tube into the horn of a microwave pulse generator. This Pulse generator is powered by 7.5 Volts
DC and uses only MilliWatts of power and then see, what big Hydrogen flame ge generates from it,
which has at least 500 or 1000 Watts of heat energy power production when burning.
Also as he can turn on and off the Microwave generator instantly, the Hydrogen production is really on demand
and needs no storage and can be easily switched off, so there are no dangerous storage amounts of Hydrogen
gas... you only need to carry water in your fuel tank !
The flame is not hydrogen. The yellow is from carbon. Most likely methanol, which only has a small amount of carbon and burns just like that. Metal is heated inductively and boils methanol at 65C leaving behing the water it was mixed with. It was mixed so it wouldn't burn. You can tell its boiling because the bubbles are huge. Electrolysis and gas evolution on metals give very fine bubbles - always.Hydrogen burns with an orange flame. Looks close in the video and the source of lighting in the room as well as the camera used could easily shift orange to a more yellow hue as orange and yellow are very close in the color spectrum.
Hydrogen burns with an orange flame. Looks close in the video and the source of lighting in the room as well as the camera used could easily shift orange to a more yellow hue as orange and yellow are very close in the color spectrum.I use a hydrogen oxygen torch to melt quartz tubing occasionally and the flame is almost invisible. In the dark it is blue/white, even with no mixed oxygen. Mind you I use ultra high pure hydrogen as used in my lab for experiments. The red hydrogen line is from the atomic spectrum of hydrogen, not the molecular spectrum and only occurs where enough atomic hydrogen is made which ive never been able to achieve in the oxyhydrogen flame. A trace of hydrocarbon will give some yellow if not enough oxygen is provided. Any sodium chloride will make a very specific yellow flame, but most of the flame will be yellow, not just the tip.Methanol, Ethanol and higher alcohols burn like in the video. The more carbons in the molecule, the more yellow the flame. After ethanol, the boiling point gets too close to that of water and his prop would not work. Methanol is hard to smell but ethanol and above are easy to detect with your nose.
From his web site: " "Anyone can build and who need our help will provide the eager, will help anyone who wants to build. Maybe help so ... to awaken the productive forces of the country, "noted Peter Painter"Do I get it right : he offers help to replicators , and only wants them to spread the knowledge?
Doesn't sound like what a con man would be writing ....
... The gases are, thereafter, separated by special sorting guides while the produced hydrogen is conducted through the respective specific connection to the energy generation mechanism for being used as fuel. :)The test tube prop on his video had no means of separating oxygen from hydrogen , yet we can tell from the flame that there was no stochiometric amount of oxygen in there. More BS from Mr. Painter.
The test tube prop on his video had no means of separating oxygen from hydrogen , yet we can tell from the flame that there was no stochiometric amount of oxygen in there. More BS from Mr. Painter.Probably the oxygen is used up in oxidizing the metal plate.
Stefan:As I mention before, the methanol is dissolved in water. It only burns while being boiled out.
Nice job on the video. Now that I have watched it more closely with your commentary, I have to say that this probably can not be alcohol burning in that tube as it goes out when he removes the tube from the funnel...and, it goes out once again when he unplugs the power supply. If it were alcohol, it seems to me it would have continued to burn in both cases.
I really hope this is real as it would be a huge break through. If we can learn what frequencies he is using, perhaps we might be able to make some replications?
Bill
Probably the oxygen is used up in oxidizing the metal plate.If that metal plate binds the oxygen, then it is not a catalyst but a reagent ...and the energy cost of its production needs to be factored into the OUT/IN energy ratio of the device.
I have just replicated the test tube experiment with methanol (1 carbon) and isopropanol (3 carbons). I simply heated a few mls of the alcohol in a test tube with a heat gun and lit the boiling vapor. Methanol buns clean with no yellow, isoprop is very yellow. I don't at the moment have ethanol (2 carbons) to try. When I stop the boiling by turning off the gun, the flame goes out. So this dude is probably using plain alcohol which is ethanol, but I can't say for sure until I try it. If you want to do this, do put some pieces of smashed ceramic in the tube to stop dangerous bumping. Might put video up if requested.
I have just replicated the test tube experiment with methanol (1 carbon) and isopropanol (3 carbons). I simply heated a few mls of the alcohol in a test tube with a heat gun and lit the boiling vapor. Methanol buns clean with no yellow, isoprop is very yellow. I don't at the moment have ethanol (2 carbons) to try. When I stop the boiling by turning off the gun, the flame goes out. So this dude is probably using plain alcohol which is ethanol, but I can't say for sure until I try it. If you want to do this, do put some pieces of smashed ceramic in the tube to stop dangerous bumping. Might put video up if requested.
Don´t you think the moderator and the experts in the TV there watching it, wouldn´t have smelled the alcohol ?Methanol has such a low odor that it is generally described as odorless.
snip..
Methanol has such a low odor that it is generally described as odorless.
Stop the bullshit, he is not using Methanol... Didn´t you see, when he filled in the seawater into his reactor ??Try filling any container with the same width open aperture as the test tube he is using with hydrogen and light it. It doesn't burn with a slowly wavering flame, it explodes. That's why hydrogen is always forced through a narrow aperture, and for safety will always have a backflow preventer in the supply line, even when it is pure hydrogen being delivered (no oxygen in the tube).
Pomodoro,
what about this picture ( on the same website ) ? There seems to always be some orange colour there.
I think the clear almost unvisible flame only appears at high gas-velocity of a burner
But of course, in the other video-demonstration he is using salt-water
regards
Kator01
Here is the abstract from his Greek patent application:
GR1007830 (B) ― 2013-02-13
"METHOD AND DEVICE FOR WATER ELECTROLYSIS AND PRODUCTION OF HYDROGEN TO BE USED AS COMBUSTIBLE UPON UTILISATION OF COMBINED FREQUENCIES"
Novelty: There are disclosed a method and a device destined for water electrolysis and production of hydrogen to be used as combustible by combination of high frequencies produced by semitonic oscillators; when mixed, reinforced and combined, said frequencies contrive to break water into its elements (hydrogen and oxygen) upon influence of the coordination effect. Secondary frequencies configurating the structure of the primary frequencies for obtaining adequately-combined frequencies by means of the respective electronic circuit composed of an isolator, a mixer, a directional coupler, a multiplier, configurators, digital frequency controllers, and linear amplifiers can be introduced with the assistance of adequate main and auxiliary treatment equipments into the primary frequencies produced by the semitonic oscillators. The vibration of water molecules and the breaking thereof into hydrogen and oxygen are obtained by suitably-coordinated frequencies. The gases are, thereafter, separated by special sorting guides while the produced hydrogen is conducted through the respective specific connection to the energy generation mechanism for being used as fuel.
__________________________
GR1007830 (B) (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?FT=D&date=20130213&DB=&locale=en_EP&CC=GR&NR=1007830B&KC=B&ND=4)
Based on the abstract and the block diagram from the patent application, it sounds like it is no
simple device to try to replicate. :)
I've worked with hydrogen and it doesn't burn gently with a wavering flame through large open apertures. It will always 'pop' with an explosion.
You are quite wrong.
Look at this how pure hydrogen burns and compare this with the Zografos flame.
https://youtu.be/OQ-oFO_TFOw?t=3m15s (https://youtu.be/OQ-oFO_TFOw?t=3m15s)
The yellow flame comes from Natrium or Carbon ions impurities in the H2 gas or here in this video from
the burning plastic tube and its Carbon content....
Stop the bullshit, he is not using Methanol... Didn´t you see, when he filled in the seawater into his reactor??
Hey pomodoro,
thanks for this paper ! Havn´t had the time to read it.
Now lets assume that he is able to split water by the combination of a metal ( cerium ? ) with rf-frequencies than this rf-oscillator ( horn-antenna ) must use the standard WLAN-frequencies, but he can not expect the regulatory agency for electromagnetic
waves to approve his device especially if he uses an impuls-mode which implies harmonics up to the 50 th at least which interfere
( broad-band )with other communication-bands. So it is my guess that the world will no see this technique. anyway.
So this technique is dead from the start, IMHO
Regards
Kator01
Yes
I have asked the Inventor and his representative {Lawyer] to address certain issues , mostly for a simple gas spectrometer test
to start with . [ which as mentioned prior, is available quite easily in Greece's Auto emission's testing infrastructure .
It is not clear at this point where this will ultimately Go ? His Lawyer mentioned the next Month would be a time for decision making ?
Please keep all input here respectful , I did not get the feeling that the Inventor or his representative will shy away from Further testing and validation !
respectfully
Chet
The flame is not hydrogen. The yellow is from carbon. Most likely methanol, which only has a small amount of carbon and burns just like that. Metal is heated inductively and boils methanol at 65C leaving behing the water it was mixed with. It was mixed so it wouldn't burn. You can tell its boiling because the bubbles are huge. Electrolysis and gas evolution on metals give very fine bubbles - always.
the 60 mins , Steve Ryans motor bike was not "busted" by a CO2 emission testYour right it was not the CO2 it was the hydrocarbons and yes an allowence is made for the combustion of the lubricating oils.
ALL vehicles that use oil in the engine will show CO2 in an emission test no matter what fuel is used
it doesnt matter if its 30/40 or sun flower oil . Oil gets past the rings in ALL motors .
No hydrogen powered piston motor would pass a test with out showing CO2
No Hydrogen invention can make it to the market in an oil based economy OR an electric vehicle economy
burn like thisKanzius used the principle of inductively coupled plasma. Look up ICP-OES or ICP-AES.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8xYUDiSGDk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8xYUDiSGDk)
Color Natrium
You are quite wrong.
Look at this how pure hydrogen burns and compare this with the Zografos flame.
https://youtu.be/OQ-oFO_TFOw?t=3m15s (https://youtu.be/OQ-oFO_TFOw?t=3m15s)
The yellow flame comes from Natrium or Carbon ions impurities in the H2 gas or here in this video from
the burning plastic tube and its Carbon content....
This is correct observation
It takes from 40:15 to 41:21 to 'cook' the liquid.
If this was true 'palmolisis' it should start immediately,
Hre is a quick test. Looks like he might be using ethanol.Yes, the ethanol looks likely.
Yes, the ethanol looks likely.
How much energy does it take to get the sacrificial metal to be useful? Is it waste aluminum? Would it be better to recycle the metal instead of using it in this way?
hariberlin, your math is false. The 'average' home does not consume 5kW continuously (which would be 120 kWh/day). Excluding heating and non-electrical: cooking, water heating and cloth drying, it is more likely 20 kWh/day.
When I lived in a 180 m^2 home (three levels, including basement ~450 m^2) in Southern Ontario, we used ~2 liters of oil for heating/day; that is ~30 kWh/day for heating. All our remaining energy came from grid electricity: another 5 kWh/day. So, our maximum energy use was ~35 kWh/day for ALL energy.
Acca,
good to know your experience in this electronic field. Electronics is one part another is the catalytic material he is using.
Without it - as I have understood - it does not work
Some time ago I noticed this post #1 from sm0ky2 (http://overunity.com/profile/sm0ky2.8767/) here:
http://overunity.com/16497/3x-hydrogen-from-water-efficiency/msg478635/#msg478635 (http://overunity.com/16497/3x-hydrogen-from-water-efficiency/msg478635/#msg478635)
Links unfortunately are content-restricted and/or do not exist anymore. Strange...??
Mike
Hi guys, this is mainly speculation on my part but it might help understand the device a little.
I think he is probably using a final centre frequency of 1420 GHz the resonance frequency required to reverse the spin of the Hydrogen electron.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_maser
P.S. We have to find out, how we can best rectify these GigaHz or TerraHz waves via these special diodes.
Maybe Zografos is also using Gunn diodes to maximize the Resonance of the GigaHz or TerraHz wave via his piston capacitors and then uses
Pin or Tunnel diodes or other special RF diodes to rectify the RF currents from his RF electrolysis to DC output power...
A method and apparatus of preparing hydrogen by microwave electrolysis of steam is disclosed. The apparatus consists of microwave generator and electrolysis tank. Microwave, which comes from the generator passes through the energy entrance of the electrolysis tank into the tank, heats the water in the bottom of tank and vaporizes it. Steam is excited to high energy status, electrolysis is conducted, and hydrogen and oxygen are produced. Under the following conditions: absolute pressure 0.1 MPa-1MPa, temp. 100-180 deg.C. microwave power density 0.1W/cm3-1.2W/cm3, microwave frequency 800-22200 megacycles per second, field intensity of direct current 200-800V/m. This invention has following advantages: high electrolysis efficiency, energy saving, no corrosion to the apparatus and safe production etc..
The dielectric loss coefficient of water (εtgδ) decreases with increasing temperature, but the water vapor still absorb microwave energy. According to quantum mechanics, electrons of water molecules, atomic force by high frequency electromagnetic field (microwaves), and the collision between the molecules are excited to a higher energy level, and then applying a DC electric field, it is easy to split water molecules. Set DC field strength Ed, the microwave electric field intensity Ea of the electric field intensity in the total cell is: E = Ed + Ea E <critical breakdown field strength of the medium.To split water molecules, the microwave energy is not enough. Therefore, a ordinary direct current is added to the microwave.
For the operation of the device it is required the use of a metal alloy board which is consumed gradually and act as electromagnetic torch. By preliminary estimates the device seen need a Kgr of alloy for producing 1600 normal cubic meters of hydrogen. With energy content of hydrogen equal to 3,5 kWh / Nm ^ 3, the output 1600 Nm ^ 3 cubic meters of hydrogen corresponding to 3,5 x 1600 = 5600 kWh chemical-thermal energy. By using a single generator with a degree of efficiency of 30% with this production we can now produce 1680 kWh of electricity at a cost of metal of around 50 euros that is equal to 50/1680 = 0,03 € / kWh compared to 0,19 € / kWh currently charged by Hellenic Public Power Company ( PPC)!http://rexresearch.com/zogrifoselectrolysis/zogrifos.html (http://rexresearch.com/zogrifoselectrolysis/zogrifos.html)
Capabilities allow the generator used to operate at a frequency of 0.1 MHz to 3.2 MHz. From this condition for the experiments on the effects on the water chose two frequency groups: the first group with a deviation from the multiplicity calculation of the oscillation frequency to the actuating frequency of the first significant digit of hydrogen and oxygen to 5%, the second group with a deviation from the multiplicity of more than 5% (see. table). The frequencies of the first group: 0.106 MHz, 0.315 MHz, 1.64 MHz, 2.5 MHz. The electricity consumption for the preparation of 1 m 3 of hydrogen when exposed to these low frequencies. The frequencies of the second group: 0.5 MHz, 0.7 MHz, 1.3 MHz. Exposure to these frequencies less effectively.To my thinking, this can not be so simple as described in the patent.HF usually does not decompose water. Although the declared power of 3.2 kWh per cubic meter of hydrogen is very high. Maybe at this power and at the declared frequencies something happens.