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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: vineet_kiran on April 07, 2016, 06:27:56 PM

Title: An Experiment with compass needle
Post by: vineet_kiran on April 07, 2016, 06:27:56 PM

A simple method to tap magnetic field energy
Title: Re: An Experiment with compass needle
Post by: lumen on April 07, 2016, 06:51:30 PM
Can't work, if you tried to draw work from the needle to the disk, then the disk would rotate harder. Not free!
Title: Re: An Experiment with compass needle
Post by: vineet_kiran on April 07, 2016, 07:24:36 PM
Can't work, if you tried to draw work from the needle to the disk, then the disk would rotate harder. Not free!

If needle is straightaway connected to disk  then obviously disk rotation becomes harder because the disk and needle rotate in opposite directions.   Energy from the rotating needle has to be drawn out separately may be by mounting a  generator on needle shaft and energy from this generator should be supplied to central shaft by means of motor fixed to central shaft.
Title: Re: An Experiment with compass needle
Post by: lumen on April 08, 2016, 02:40:42 AM
If needle is straightaway connected to disk  then obviously disk rotation becomes harder because the disk and needle rotate in opposite directions.   Energy from the rotating needle has to be drawn out separately may be by mounting a  generator on needle shaft and energy from this generator should be supplied to central shaft by means of motor fixed to central shaft.

Yes, but what does the generator connect to? One side is the needle and the other side is .......?

How about to another needle on the other side of the wheel and a figure 8 belt connecting them. That way one needle will work against another needle.
Title: Re: An Experiment with compass needle
Post by: vineet_kiran on April 08, 2016, 05:57:19 AM
Yes, but what does the generator connect to? One side is the needle and the other side is .......?


I didn't  understand your question.  My idea is like this.  Please see the attachment.
Title: Re: An Experiment with compass needle
Post by: lumen on April 08, 2016, 07:34:19 AM
Your compass needle is stationary and the disc is turning the generator.
Title: Re: An Experiment with compass needle
Post by: MagnaProp on April 08, 2016, 07:58:53 AM
I suspect lenz law in the generator's coils along with centrifugal forces from the large disk will keep the needle from staying aligned with the earths magnetic poles. I hope I am wrong.

Title: Re: An Experiment with compass needle
Post by: vineet_kiran on April 08, 2016, 10:31:39 AM
Your compass needle is stationary and the disc is turning the generator.

Compass needle is not stationary.  It has to rotate to align itself in N-S direction.



I suspect lenz law in the generator's coils along with centrifugal forces from the large disk will keep the needle from staying aligned with the earths magnetic poles. I hope I am wrong.


Earth's magnetic field is very week. Obviously the force of attraction between needle and earth's magnetic field cannot overcome lenz's forces and centrifugal force.  Hence I have suggested  a strong rectangular magnet at the base having same polarity as earth's magnetic field.   A very strong attractive force between strong permanent magnet and needle can overcome lenz's  as well as centrifugal forces.

Here the bottom magnet acts as external force and energy is generated by strong attractive force between needle and bottom magnet. (instead of needle, a strong permanent bar magnet can be used)

Title: Re: An Experiment with compass needle
Post by: MagnaProp on April 08, 2016, 11:18:17 AM
...I have suggested  a strong rectangular magnet at the base having same polarity as earth's magnetic field...

You mean like this image?

If you put large external magnets on each side of the big wheel, as shown in the image, to simulate a stronger earth magnetic field, then the needle will cause some drag as it gets pulled away from the external magnet that it is attracted to. Perhaps that drag is negligible as you also gain some energy when it gets pulled towards a magnet it gets closer to? So there is no net loss in energy to the large wheel?
Title: Re: An Experiment with compass needle
Post by: vineet_kiran on April 08, 2016, 12:06:48 PM
You mean like this image?

If you put large external magnets on each side of the big wheel, as shown in the image, to simulate a stronger earth magnetic field, then the needle will cause some drag as it gets pulled away from the external magnet that it is attracted to. Perhaps that drag is negligible as you also gain some energy when it gets pulled towards a magnet it gets closer to? So there is no net loss in energy to the large wheel?


The magnet has to be at the base, parallel to the ground / disc.   If you provide magnets on sides, obviously the needle experiences dragging force when it moves out of magnetic field which will not have any advantage as far as energy is concerned and it becomes like other non-functioning magnet motors available in the internet.

The needle should not move out of the magnetic field.    When disc is rotated w.r.t. earth's magnetic field the needle doesnot move out of earth's magnetic field because it covers the entire earth.  So, if you provide a base magnet as shown in the picture which is bigger than the disc,  the needle doesnot move out of bottom magnetic field hence there is no chance of dragging force.

The needle always tries to be in line with bottom magnet which is S-N.   Hence when main disc is rotated, the needle has to rotate  to align itself  in N-S direction.






Title: Re: An Experiment with compass needle
Post by: lumen on April 08, 2016, 02:07:17 PM
Yes, the needle will remain stationary but the rotating disc is doing the work turning the generator.

To see this just flip over the generator.
Put the generator on the disc and the compass needle on top of the generator.

Title: Re: An Experiment with compass needle
Post by: vineet_kiran on April 08, 2016, 02:25:55 PM

Yes, the needle will remain stationary but the rotating disc is doing the work turning the generator.


If needle remains stationary,  how the generator coil will rotate?   Work is done by external magnetic field  by pulling the needle  to maintain its direction.  This pulling force is not transferred to the disc.
Title: Re: An Experiment with compass needle
Post by: lumen on April 08, 2016, 03:17:15 PM
It will only generate power if you rotate disc.

Title: Re: An Experiment with compass needle
Post by: vineet_kiran on April 08, 2016, 04:25:19 PM
It will only generate power if you rotate disc.


How much energy is required to rotate the disc and keep it rotating?  You have to overcome only the friction between bottom of central shaft and ground which requires negligible energy input.  It does not experience any opposing force from the magnets.
Title: Re: An Experiment with compass needle
Post by: lumen on April 08, 2016, 07:45:32 PM
When you rotate the disc you also rotate the generator. If the other end of the generator is connected to compass needle and does not rotate then turning the disc is turning the generator.
Title: Re: An Experiment with compass needle
Post by: MagnaProp on April 08, 2016, 09:39:13 PM
...The needle should not move out of the magnetic field.    When disc is rotated w.r.t. earth's magnetic field the needle does not move out of earth's magnetic field because it covers the entire earth...
The needle crosses the bloch wall so I'm not sure that is considered staying in a constant magnetic field? I would expect more pull on one side of your needle if we moved closer to the north or south pole of the earth. I think the earths magnetic field is a fairly constant pull on both sides of a magnet because of how far apart the poles are with respect to our location. We are fairly close to being in the center of these large poles.

To get a fairly even magnetic field in your device I think your large magnet under the disk would have to be very large. If the main disk is six inches diameter, then I think your large magnet under it would have to be about four feet square or more to get a fairly constant field pull on the needle. Worth testing and thanks for sharing this unique idea.
Title: Re: An Experiment with compass needle
Post by: vineet_kiran on April 09, 2016, 02:16:55 AM
The needle crosses the bloch wall so I'm not sure that is considered staying in a constant magnetic field? I would expect more pull on one side of your needle if we moved closer to the north or south pole of the earth. I think the earths magnetic field is a fairly constant pull on both sides of a magnet because of how far apart the poles are with respect to our location. We are fairly close to being in the center of these large poles.

To get a fairly even magnetic field in your device I think your large magnet under the disk would have to be very large. If the main disk is six inches diameter, then I think your large magnet under it would have to be about four feet square or more to get a fairly constant field pull on the needle. Worth testing and thanks for sharing this unique idea.


I agree with that.  Thanks for the positive input.
Title: Re: An Experiment with compass needle
Post by: lumen on April 09, 2016, 02:51:43 AM
Now the external field will remain constant with the generator central.
Title: Re: An Experiment with compass needle
Post by: vineet_kiran on April 09, 2016, 03:16:06 AM
Now the external field will remain constant with the generator central.


It cannot be Sir!