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Author Topic: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)  (Read 51440 times)

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #120 on: May 02, 2016, 05:46:49 AM »
Ok. The new mag assy's did not work as well as the big magnets in previous pics and vids. :-[

Next will be a different approach. Magnets and coils configured like in a hard drive.

Im seeing that the fork can only vibrate so much, and above a certain point power input becomes more with lesser movement increase of the fork. This was with either mag setup. Im thinking that maybe the iron bars would need to be longer for more throw. It seems to have best in/out voltage ratio when the input is around 1v for either mag setup.  The first setup seems to be a better model to work with between the 2.

Looking into another design where the spring will be done with magnets in repulsion. One magnet mounted to the mover and 2 on either side mounted to the base. This will give me a lot of adjustability without trying newer materials, cutting different lengths, or adding weights.

Ill put up a couple pics tomorrow of what I have here then I will try adding more weight to the ends and see what difference that makes. Then Ill work out the new setup.

Tired.

Mags

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #120 on: May 02, 2016, 05:46:49 AM »

Offline tinman

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #121 on: May 03, 2016, 02:51:47 PM »
As this is the mechanical resonance thread,maybe a different approach ?

Quote: Parallel resonance or near-to-resonance circuits can be used to prevent the waste of electrical energy, which would otherwise occur while the inductor built its field or the capacitor charged and discharged. As an example, asynchronous motors waste inductive current while synchronous ones waste capacitive current. The use of the two types in parallel makes the inductor feed the capacitor, and vice versa, maintaining the same resonant current in the circuit, and converting all the current into useful work.


Brad

Offline ramset

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #122 on: May 04, 2016, 02:16:46 AM »
Here's a little something to dream on whilst your resonating.

Frenchmen  set the world record for hoverboard distance and time ...he slaughtered the previous record and says he can go to 10,000 feet.[he uses a Jet engine not rockets [kinda secret]]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/flyboard-air-franky-zapatas-hoverboard-sets-new-guinness-world-record-furthest-flight-1557959

and there's a magnetic one mentioned in the link.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #122 on: May 04, 2016, 02:16:46 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #123 on: May 04, 2016, 03:53:56 AM »
Here are the pics. No matter what I did, the output voltage was just below input or less.  The mags are as wide as the windings. Seemed like it would have been good. The only thing I suspect is less flux density as compared to the big N52s.  Thinking on a new mag/coil config...

Mags
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 06:46:06 AM by Magluvin »

Offline wattsup

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #124 on: May 04, 2016, 01:53:13 PM »
@Magluvin

Should have posted this last night but just conked out. Sorry for delay in responding. I have been busy these days with several projects and getting ready to publish soon on Spin Conveyance. It ain't easy. At the same time I am looking to make a few videos on AC.

My curiosity about the 7.84Hz was just because I have seen often times that while sweeping across those low frequencies you can often see something very different at this frequency or around this frequency. I don't know why. It could be that the Shewman Frequency (SF) being that of the Earth (or near that of the Earth since it does change) is one hell of a big coil pulsing under our feet. The problem is how can you know when the frequency is at its high and low peaks to then know when to sync to it since phasing will be the most important factor. I would gather that everything on this planet is exposed to the SF but it is so slight that when you pulse anything else to its own phase cycles, the SF is just insignificant. But if you specifically wanted to work with the SF as a rebiasing agent, it may provide some interesting effects. And since mechanical movements like magnets near coils marry the physical and the electrical, maybe there is a way to find the proper phase relation between the movement, the induced coil and the SF being available to rebias that coil at the right or favorable moment for the next movement. It's really not easy but when you have an FG nearby it's always good to check it out. I know when I do variable pulsing I instinctively always try 7.84.

Recently I did some Half Coil Syndrome videos and in one of them I was using one coil and several compasses. Of course using low frequencies and while sweeping I would see the compasses spinning in erratic ways, nothing to see anything special until I hit the 7.84 area and all of a sudden they all aligned. I cannot explain the why of that. It's as if the coil pulse was in sync with the SF and the compasses reflected this, but if phasing is also an issue then this may have been a one in a million event. I'll have to try it again. Easy to do. An FG, one coil and a few compasses. See below. hehehe

Anyways always good to see your works as well as @tinmans.

Just got my second battery all charged up and the set-up is ready to start doing some tests with AC. This will put the scopes floating off the mains and off each other. I already found one very weird effect. I will post more on this on the JT thread since all it's being used for now is more squabbling.

This guy does a good job of explaining grounding issues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYu_sFwhEok

Here is a question for anyone in the know. I tried finding this formal information on scopes but cannot find a definite answer. So you have a scope probe and a ground. Under normal settings, that is without the math function, how does the scope resolve the two?. When we say differential this implies Probe minus Ground (my choice) or is it Ground minus Probe or is there another differential formula that scopes are all designed to derive in terms of the resulting waveform? A few weeks ago I Googled this for a few hours without finding a clear or definitive answer. It seems like this basic information is being given the run around or what? It's not even clear in my scope manual. I need to find this as an official EE explanation.

@tinman Sorry for off topic. Next post will be for @Mags last post.

wattsup


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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #124 on: May 04, 2016, 01:53:13 PM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #125 on: May 04, 2016, 03:29:18 PM »
@Magluvin

Let's use the "Wow" word again. That's one hell of a magnet set-up but the problem I see right away is on the secondary side those magnets are facing the inside of the coil and everything is still happening everywhere at the same time.

That's why I mentioned on the secondary side to use multiple two turn coils in parallel. The more length of wire in your one secondary, the more chance you will just create major snags in how that wire can establish a potential difference.

Also, you already had a working drive side. You pulsed the drive coil and the magnet moved out then came back in with the spring action of the fork. So the drive side did not even need changing because it already did its job. There is no rule saying each side has to be symmetrical in terms of the magnets or the coils. I would have kept it like it was on the drive side. Then with the drive going I would have just kept the pick up magnets without a coil and manually approached a wide range of coils nears the magnet with just an LED on the coil terminals or like my Diode Carousel just quickly connected to any coil and move it manually around that moving pick up magnet side and see how the LED responds. Eventually those trials will give you a better idea on how to make the pick up coil which should be th e only real variable.

It all stems from how you see the magnet creating its impress on the coil. You guys see it as a field permeating a general area around the coil and this creates electron flow. I now see it in a totally different way that is more precise, more vectoral, more premeditated then our present general way. For me, the copper wire has atoms with nucleus gyroscopes and the trick is to make them gyros twitch and convey that twitch down the wire line to create the potential difference across those terminals of the coil. This variation in how you see the effect actually is occurring in a micro second by micro second manner that is then conveyed throughout the wire will make all the difference in how you see devices working. I had prepared some effect patterns for @tinmans JT device but did not post them because of all the needless commotion. The problem is in each wire, the effect on one side of the wire closest the magnet will be in reverse for atoms on the other side of the same wire and this is why we see CEMF.

Think of it like the nucleus of the copper atom is like a very healthy dog and you are playing retrieve the ball with the dog. So the dog is in front of you and he is totally concentrated following every micro movement of your hand. You can fake a throw and it will turn its head but quickly know it's not thrown yet and it continues just following that ball in every way your hand moves. Now imagine you were in front of 1000 dogs, some are facing you while some have their backs to you while others have their sides facing you but from wherever they are they are all trying to look at that ball move. The ones much further away that cannot see the ball get their cue from the others closer to the action. Move you hand up, all try to look up, move it down, all try to look down, move it left or right and all will have their heads moving left and right, but because they are all packed together, each movement from one dog creates a counter movement for another. Resonance is when the most amount of dogs can move their heads in tandem but it will never be all 1000 dogs, maybe 200 if you are really really lucky but most likely 10 or 20 when you ove th eball really really fast. This is a simplified way of explaining it but if you took this simple explanation and extending into every other EE effect, you will soon realize that you do not need any dog to run down the line (electron flow) or run down then run back (AC) or even take a quick step to one side and back (DC). All they need to do is follow the ball with their heads and their bodies are just standing on the spot all the time so the complete line of dogs never changes (copper wire does not change).

So with your simple little toy it becomes a good example of how perspective will change how you go about doing experiments. With the field/electron flow, everything becomes just permeated so no need to concentrate on the atomic micro effects. Just splash all over and wait or hope for the wave and even better hope for a tsunami but the tsunami never comes. But with SC everything becomes micro intentional. Your conscious of the micro atomic action of the nucleus and can from there start to concoct builds that will intentionally target those actions and use them for your advantage.

This also then gives you ideas on how to arrange the dogs. What if those 1000 dogs all had their heads facing you instead of all over the place. One movement would result in 1000 synchronized movements would do what? This would open up a whole new science of oriented copper and throw out all these EE Laws that are all based on random atomic nuclei. Maybe flattening copper wire and placing a strong magnet on one side as it exits the flattening device would arrange them nuclei in a more favorable (never perfect) direction. The more nuclei facing the same way the better output you would get, but the even better amperage you would get AT RESONANCE where the voltage also rises. But that is not for today or tomorrow. The funnest part of working with mechanical devices is you blow less mosfets. hahahaha

@tinman Hope this is on topic although yes it's coming from out of our regular box.

wattsup


Offline picowatt

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #126 on: May 04, 2016, 03:36:05 PM »
Just got my second battery all charged up and the set-up is ready to start doing some tests with AC. This will put the scopes floating off the mains and off each other. I already found one very weird effect. I will post more on this on the JT thread since all it's being used for now is more squabbling.


Wattsup,

Your set up is very dangerous and I strongly urge you to stop what you are doing.  If you want to work with AC voltage measurements, get a low voltage AC transformer to work with as I have already suggested.

You are apparently planning to attach each of your scopes grounds to opposing sides of the AC line.  One look at the photo you posted clearly demonstrates you are not at all aware of or prepared for the likely consequences of doing this.


Everyone reading this should join in with me in urging you to stop before you harm yourself, someone else, or your equipment.

PW

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #126 on: May 04, 2016, 03:36:05 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #127 on: May 04, 2016, 04:02:55 PM »
PW
You should have a look at wattsups Build page for the TPU [maybe he could post a link?}
he has spent thousands of hours Hunting on His Bench for the elusive TPU secret.

Not his First summer and most certainly no where near the most dangerous thing he has played with.

He is most definitely a Veteran Here and there probably is NO limit to what he will attempt on his Bench in this
Quest .


But yes I agree  Voltage or current can Kill you very quickly and this should come as no surprise to
even the youngest who read here.

along with Stepping off the Curb without looking both ways etc etc etc.


respectfully
Chet
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 06:10:25 PM by ramset »

Offline tinman

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #128 on: May 04, 2016, 04:09:14 PM »

Wattsup,

Your set up is very dangerous and I strongly urge you to stop what you are doing.  If you want to work with AC voltage measurements, get a low voltage AC transformer to work with as I have already suggested.

You are apparently planning to attach each of your scopes grounds to opposing sides of the AC line.  One look at the photo you posted clearly demonstrates you are not at all aware of or prepared for the likely consequences of doing this.


Everyone reading this should join in with me in urging you to stop before you harm yourself, someone else, or your equipment.

PW

I have to agree with PW wattsup--you are about to place a dead short across live HV AC.

Take PWs advice,and switch to a low voltage AC source-->this will still fry your equipment like you seem to want to do here,but will leave you breathing,and thinking about where you can get the cash for your replacement scope.

Fool around with some magnets,solar panels,ecore's,diamagnetic and paramagnetic materials instead--it's safer and more fun.



Brad

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #128 on: May 04, 2016, 04:09:14 PM »
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Offline citfta

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #129 on: May 04, 2016, 09:20:13 PM »
Guys,

Did you read what he posted?  He has both scopes isolated from mains ground and both scopes isolated from each other.  He will NOT be creating a short from one side of the AC to the other side of the AC.  The only real danger will be if he touches both scope cases at the same time as most scopes do have the ground side of the probe tied to the case of the scope.  I also am not real sure he is even talking about mains AC as it looks like he has a small inverter connected or near one of the batteries.  I also know he had been around these forums for years so I do not doubt he knows what he is doing.  He also wouldn't have commented about the scopes being isolated if he wasn't aware of the problem of them not being isolated.

When I worked in industry we commonly had to isolate the scope because many motor controllers are designed in such a way that the low side of the motor control is still hot in relation to ground and you will blow the scope if you don't use an isolation plug.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Offline picowatt

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #130 on: May 04, 2016, 09:36:18 PM »
Guys,

Did you read what he posted.  He has both scopes isolated from mains ground and both scopes isolated from each other.  He will NOT be creating a short from one side of the AC to the other side of the AC.

Of the list of bad things that can happen, a dead short, spark, a blown circuit breaker and a brief WTF moment followed by the subsequent discovery of damage to equipment is the best case scenario.

Quote
The only real danger will be if he touches both scope cases at the same time as most scopes do have the ground side of the probe tied to the case of the scope.

That's exactly right, there is a very real danger to life and limb.

If you have been following his posts, you would be aware of what he is wanting to do and his limited understanding of  how and why the AC line is wired as it is.  Having one of the scopes, its inverter, and its battery at line potential in close proximity to another scope, inverter, and battery at the neutral or opposing line potential is just asking for trouble. 

One look at the posted photo of his bench setup should be cause for extreme concern...

PW

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #130 on: May 04, 2016, 09:36:18 PM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #131 on: May 04, 2016, 10:12:59 PM »
@PW and all

Still at work but will be home tonight.

My scopes are both floating since each one is driven by it's own car battery and its own inverter so there is no danger in blowing the equipment. 

The reason I am going straight to mains with these floating probes is to remove any possible excuses of using a Variac or any step-down transformer as being a hindrance from actually using the real neutral line. I fully understand the danger but have done some quick tests last night and there is no adverse effects. As long as you do not touch two terminals with your hands and this is why I am employing SM's one hand technique. The probe and ground can now go on either the hot or neutral without any problems.

I also have a direct ground line that I had put in the backyard a few years ago which is a 1/2" by 8' long solid copper rod that I planted vertically 10' deep so the top is 2 feet below the surface. I have a copper line going from there to my bench to also test the differences between the mains neutral and a true Earth ground. I already saw something that I will video as curious and am sure will have some of you scratching your heads to explain it. I don't have an answer as of yet.

I do not suggest anyone do this because yes, there is an element of danger but I am perfectly confident of my handling skills otherwise I would not do it. I know my limits and also know when to ask questions that others may be more experienced to answer, hence my question about how the scope derives the differential sine wave with a probe and ground. I need an official EE explanation as this will be part of my overall analysis later on. The only other variable is the added task of making a video which will require some additional attention that must not detract me from the proper handling. But I think I will be OK.

Thanks for the concern. I will be back soon but on the JT thread so it will again become useful and free this one for mechanical resonance works which is again a real treat for the mind.

wattsup


Offline wattsup

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #132 on: May 04, 2016, 10:23:26 PM »
@PW

Just saw your post and thanks. I will add a thick piece of wood between the two scopes event though the top one is plastic with plastic feet but just in case. I will also wear some gloves and make a point of not touching the lower scope chassis. hahahahahahahaha

wattsup


Offline citfta

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #133 on: May 05, 2016, 03:49:39 PM »
Hi wattsup,

I don't see where anyone answered your questions about a scope.  I am not an EE but I have used scopes for over 40 years and even from time to time had to repair one.  If I understand your question correctly you want to know how a scope displays the signal on the screen.  The old analogue scopes are the easiest to understand so we will start with them.   As you are already aware the ground clip of your probe is connected to the chassis and ground side of the amplifying circuit.  This just becomes a reference point to use as a convenient place to compare the signal to.  With your scope floating as you have done this reference point is entirely relative to everything else.  This allows you to make measurements that are NOT referenced to ground.

In simple terms if we wanted to measure the voltage on a 12 volt battery with a scope if we connect the ground clip to the negative post we would see 12 volts positive when the signal side of the probe was connected to the positive post.  If we connect the ground clip to the positive post then we would see a negative 12 volts on the signal side.  Whatever we see on the signal side is in relation to where the ground clip is connected.

I am not sure how much further you need information but we will go a little farther.  The signal on the probe is fed to an amplifier that the sends the signal on to the deflection plates of the crt to cause the trace to move up and down according to the signal on the probe.
A digital scope doesn't actually display the signal directly like the analogue scope.  Instead it takes very tiny very short samples of the signal and then plots the curve on the screen.  These short samples allow the math functions to have something to calculate.

The simplest way to think of a scope is that it is just a voltmeter with a visual display so you can see changing voltages and complex waveforms.

If I haven't answered you questions please explain again what it is you are trying to understand.

Take care,
Carroll

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #134 on: May 06, 2016, 02:18:48 AM »
Hey Watts

Is there resonance in your experiment? If so, you can make another thread on this board on that? Just that this thread is working with mechanical resonance. Dont want to thicken it up with other things.

If it is on this board, it will be moderated at your request if needed. Just ask Brad or me if there are any problems. ;D

Mags

 

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