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Author Topic: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)  (Read 78843 times)

Magluvin

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #90 on: April 26, 2016, 06:49:35 AM »
Stopped at Ace Hardware and spent more than I intended. ::) ;D

They had these stainless bars and I got them.

Put this together this evening. Home made tuning fork. I put the mags on the ends with opposing fields between. It changes the freq of resonance. She is just above 55hz.

Ok, bed time and will mess with it this week.

Mags
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Magluvin

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #91 on: April 26, 2016, 06:55:01 AM »
Oh, one thing I noticed today is when it is in resonance, if you hold the drive coil manually, it vibrates my hand the least, almost nill and can almost just sit there without the tape. Out of resonance you feel much more vibration and will bounce around if you let it go. So while playing, tape. ;D
Anyway...

Mags
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DR.WHO

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #92 on: April 26, 2016, 06:55:44 PM »
Your adding power to both coils ? That is not resonance ! You have to add power to one coil and both coils must resonate ! I fill you need to add a self resonating Basher free energy coil and in theory it will keep self resonating for ever on one single charge pulse ...

It can not self resonate with out this self resonating coil and I would like to see Tin mans transformer back in action to achieve the end result 

What I see is mother natures secrets tat a bee and a humming bird and some Beatles have and that is a self resonating wing ! They just dont have enough energy to do what they do so resonance is the only way they can keep there wings moving constantly with out ever getting tiered.

When you have it self resonating with no battery than you truly have achieved something very important ! The frequency harmonic is going to be the key point to tune to.








   
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Magluvin

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #93 on: April 26, 2016, 11:48:20 PM »
Quote from: DR.WHO on April 26, 2016, 06:55:44 PM
Your adding power to both coils ? That is not resonance ! You have to add power to one coil and both coils must resonate ! I fill you need to add a self resonating Basher free energy coil and in theory it will keep self resonating for ever on one single charge pulse ...

It can not self resonate with out this self resonating coil and I would like to see Tin mans transformer back in action to achieve the end result 

What I see is mother natures secrets tat a bee and a humming bird and some Beatles have and that is a self resonating wing ! They just dont have enough energy to do what they do so resonance is the only way they can keep there wings moving constantly with out ever getting tiered.

When you have it self resonating with no battery than you truly have achieved something very important ! The frequency harmonic is going to be the key point to tune to.
 

I think your have it wrong on what Im doing here. What Im looking at is getting something to be in resonance via input to one coil and using the other coil as a generating pickup coil. So far I have gotten a higher voltage from the pickup coil than what is input to the other identical coil. Typically at these low freq if the 2 coils were set up as a 1 to 1 transformer, the pickup coil/secondary should only put out as much or less voltage than what was input to the driver/primary coil. So the mechanical resonator between the coils gives a step up transformer effect, of which is part of the investigation in these experiments.


Mags
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Magluvin

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #94 on: April 26, 2016, 11:55:06 PM »
Here is a vid of the new setup.  The mags are not the ones I used to get the higher voltage on the pickup coil, The big mags are next. Then with a change to the height of the tuning fork on the base, Im making stands for using the original speaker magnet assys from which I got the coils from. The length of the tuning fork allows for a more straight movement of the coils if mounted to the fork, so I think I can get the speaker mag assys to work, The previous setup had to much angle of movement. So this may work well. When thats done we should see some better efficiency on the in and the out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OTyErrA9N8&feature=youtu.be


Mags
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DR.WHO

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #95 on: April 27, 2016, 01:05:44 AM »
Ok That is something I can understand ! The out of phasing needs damping as there is a slight delay in kinetic transfer and the higher voltage is due to a change in resistance due to the extra magnets affect the coil .. Ohm law does not represent or hold for a reactive circuit like this set up and it can not represent resonance .

So the extra voltage or gain is due to some kind of harmonising in the electron field ! It would be most interesting if you feed the primary coil from the computer via an audio sine wave and build up harmonics via the audacity program as the resonator. This way you can stop the tuning fork and place a magnet between the two coils and continue to build up the free energy curve ..

As you add more harmonics you just increase the turns on the secondary reviving coil for more current ! The audacity program permits you cut and paste single waves and line them under each other creating a very powerful harmonic density . This than permits you to grow a very large amount of free energy if that is what you would like to happen ?

This may sound strange but with harmonics magnets and coils 1 watt can become 100 kw ....... And is done every day ! Good luck !




   


   
       
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tinman

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #96 on: April 27, 2016, 01:17:00 AM »
Quote from: Magluvin on April 26, 2016, 11:55:06 PM
Here is a vid of the new setup.  The mags are not the ones I used to get the higher voltage on the pickup coil, The big mags are next. Then with a change to the height of the tuning fork on the base, Im making stands for using the original speaker magnet assys from which I got the coils from. The length of the tuning fork allows for a more straight movement of the coils if mounted to the fork, so I think I can get the speaker mag assys to work, The previous setup had to much angle of movement. So this may work well. When thats done we should see some better efficiency on the in and the out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OTyErrA9N8&feature=youtu.be


Mags

Nice going Mag's.
It was great watching the oscillations between the two sides when the strobe effect took place.
You could see that the two halves of the tuning fork were coming together at the same time--189* out of phase with each other ;).


Brad
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Magluvin

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #97 on: April 27, 2016, 11:28:21 PM »
Quote from: tinman on April 27, 2016, 01:17:00 AM
Nice going Mag's.
It was great watching the oscillations between the two sides when the strobe effect took place.
You could see that the two halves of the tuning fork were coming together at the same time--189* out of phase with each other ;) .


Brad

Thanks.  I believe you could be right. maybe 188deg. lol  But it does seem to have a delayed reaction on one prong if driving only the other side.
Laundry night.  Tomorrow Im making some posts with small magnets facing outward radially. It will fit in the coil. After testing a little bit, the original speaker magnets may be too close in tolerance in the mag gap.  But while I have things set up as is, Im going to try the post with small mags around it for both the drive and pickup.

Was able to get the pickup trace to go above in voltage of the drive voltage with this setup also. Havnt done any power measurements yet as Im looking for improvement of out voltage vs in voltage as best I can get. Being they are identical coils, I think the voltage difference an is important first goal.

Mags
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Magluvin

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #98 on: April 30, 2016, 07:34:07 AM »
Here is the first radial magnet assy for the tuning fork. took a couple different methods to get the mags to be held next to the other ones well enough to then glue. On the last one I had to lightly dremel the inner corners to make 7 sit on the surface of the tube and be level. Im doing the other one tomorrow. That last one was a bit tough as the 2 on either side were pushing it away hard and a couple times jumped out while going for the install knocking off others. >:( ;D   Tired. Been hot here today.

Will be interesting to see the differences if any with this config. To get more advanced I would make a larger outer tube with mags on the inside facing the outside of the coil, with mags set in attraction the the inner mags, seen below. That would make the fields cutting the coils very dense. One test at a time.

When I started this thread, I didnt intend to explore why resonance is. There is enough info out there that I need not repeat it. We know that resonance is available to us and I just want to explore the use of it if possible.  If this new mag assy makes any improvement, then I am a step forward. Im already seeing more voltage out on the pickup coil than what is input to the identical driver coil, using the same magnets for each. This is not typical with any devices I have worked with so far.

A week ago, I had a thought that driving an object into resonance, and considering that the object is say, storing the input energy, just may be the same as using a flywheel instead. But after some of these things we are seeing, I believe I have come back to my senses on that idea. ;D My reasoning is to compare the 2.  If we have a pulse motor that is driven with 1 coil, and then have an identical coil as a gen coil, with a rotor(flywheel) with magnets, then go ahead and try to get as much voltage from the gen coil as you put into the drive coil. It cant happen. Many many times the gen coil voltage isnt even close to being the same as the input voltage.

But here we have already broken that barrier. So there is a difference in how the input energy is handled for the flywheel and a mechanical resonant device.  ;)

Oh yeah. I took the 2 coils and put them face to face, driving one with the same signal and level I was driving the tuning fork with, and put the scope on both. The yellow trace shows the input sine and the pickup coil had shown nada. So this resonance thing beats out close air core induction and any pulse motor Ive seen with identical coils for the driver and gen coil.

Moving forward.....

Mags
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verpies

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #99 on: April 30, 2016, 09:10:33 AM »
Quote from: Magluvin on April 26, 2016, 11:48:20 PM
So far I have gotten a higher voltage from the pickup coil than what is input to the other identical coil. Typically at these low freq if the 2 coils were set up as a 1 to 1 transformer, the pickup coil/secondary should only put out as much or less voltage than what was input to the driver/primary coil.
In my opinion, the stainless steel bars are not a good material for the tuning fork, because they are electrically conductive and they are immersed in the varying magnetic field from the coil.

Anytime you have a conductive material that is immersed in a varying magnetic field, Eddy currents get induced in it and they waste energy.


The tuning fork would be better composed out of glass rods ...at least the ends of the arms, that are immersed in the magnetic field.


P.S.
Are these coils air-core?
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verpies

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #100 on: April 30, 2016, 09:22:35 AM »
@Tinman

Do you remember the time when I was helping you to build a circuit that recovered energy put into a stator coil in some kind of a rotary motor?
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Magluvin

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #101 on: April 30, 2016, 10:02:38 AM »
Quote from: verpies on April 30, 2016, 09:10:33 AM
In my opinion, the stainless steel bars are not a good material for the tuning fork, because they are electrically conductive and they are immersed in the varying magnetic field from the coil.

Anytime you have a conductive material that is immersed in a varying magnetic field, Eddy currents get induced in it and they waste energy.


The tuning fork would be better composed out of glass rods ...at least the ends of the arms, that are immersed in the magnetic field.


P.S.
Are these coils air-core?

Hey Verpies

The magnets on the plexi tubes will be moving with the fork prongs. So if you look at the previous pics and how the mags are mounted on the ends of the prongs, these will be outward also. So the mags on one prong will be moving with that prong, but are fairly far away from the other prong, and the same for the other magnet assy on the other prong. So there should not be much losses there as the magnets on the prongs are moving with the prong they are mounted to. There would probably be more interaction between the 2 mag assy's than there is with the stainless.  Looking again at the previous pics, the mag disks on the inner side of the fork prongs are in repulsion as it helped rasise the freq by adding more spring action. This is why I havnt put the coils on the prongs with  the mags base mounted, as there would be more concern of what you are saying if the prongs are moving near the stationary magnet. But there are ways around it if it is an issue, say we could put plexi extensions on the prongs to get the mags away from the bars. Or glass as you suggest.

Yes the coils are out of car speakers.  The new mag assy's should provide more flux density through the windings than the way I was having the poles of the mags inline with the coils previously.  If these mag assy's increase efficiency, on the drive side and the gen side, we should have an increase in output voltage over the input, beyond what I have gotten already. Once I get to a point of that I feel I cant increase the output voltage vs input any further within reason, then I will start doing in/out power tests.  Like I said, with 2 identical coils, one driver and one pickup coil, using the same mags for each, to get higher voltage from the pickup than what is input to the drive coil(remembering the input is sine AC at low freq, below 60hz so far) is an important accomplishment to me.  The one thing that is making the connection between the in and the out is the mechanical resonant device. It is what is making the transfer from in to out.

Mags

I like the glass forks. Ive seen some out there.   ;D

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verpies

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #102 on: April 30, 2016, 10:30:45 AM »
Yes, the eddy current losses in the metal could be even higher, but that does not mean they are low now.
Conductive metal is still immersed in a varying magnetic field from the coils.  That's lossy even if the metal is not moving.

That voltage increase is interesting, but voltage is not energy.  Resonant rise is known to increase voltage at the cost of the current, regardless whether it is a mechanical resonance or LC resonance.

Looking forward to further numbers.
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tinman

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #103 on: April 30, 2016, 10:34:35 AM »
Quote from: verpies on April 30, 2016, 09:22:35 AM
@Tinman

Do you remember the time when I was helping you to build a circuit that recovered energy put into a stator coil in some kind of a rotary motor?

lol Yes,i do.
Why is that?

Brad
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verpies

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #104 on: April 30, 2016, 10:44:01 AM »
Quote from: tinman on April 30, 2016, 10:34:35 AM
lol Yes,i do.
Why is that?
I was thinking, that in these experiments, it would also be good to recover the energy stored in the coil, at the end of each cycle - after the tuning fork arm was attracted fully in.
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