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Author Topic: 3x hydrogen from water efficiency  (Read 2894 times)

Offline markdansie

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3x hydrogen from water efficiency
« on: March 25, 2016, 05:39:54 AM »
If the numbers stack up this is one of the most important breakthroiughs in generating hydrogen from water.[/font][/size]

Happy Easter

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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: 3x hydrogen from water efficiency
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2016, 08:33:01 AM »
dissemination of information.....

this was discovered in 1952

hidden from the public.

Re-Discovered in 1970, on accident

reviewed in the 90's, and the technology was furthered to some degree, then suppressed by the big $$, from - no less than the Solar Industry!

Yet another attempt was made to push this information in '03

About this time, it started to hit the "FE" market, where bench-experimenters were using tungsten-cobalt elecrodes to produce "OU".
now, their concept of "overunity" was based in a standard unit of energy required to electrolyze water into its constituent gasses.
This value was commonly accepted as the "unit" of energy contained in the water, minus losses, used to separate the molecule.

What most people did not understand (and still today have trouble with), is what these "losses" are.
What are the "losses" ?

From a thermodynamic definition - the losses are the difference between the "energy obtained" and the "energy consumed".

Now,. almost all perspectives include the energy "lost" during production of the gas.
This is simple math, energy gained from recombination of the gasses - energy used to produce the gas = - energy lost

But where in here do we take into account the energy "lost" during the recombination process,
where we are assessing the quantity of "energy output"?
How efficient is our ability to harness the energy of the two atoms combining to form a molecule?
This is not considered in most evaluations of Hydrogen Production or Consumption.

What we look at is an overall efficiency between the creation and consumption.
not at what is being created or consumed.

How many people can answer the following question:

What is the difference between an electrolysis + Internal Combustion cycle
an Electrolysis + Fuel Cell cycle


The above question is completely rhetorical, I don't care what your personal answer is.

The point is to get you to think about the factors involved, and how we apply these factors, to what we call "efficiency".
or "unity", "equilibrium".

The only reason modern physics cannot directly assume a hydrogen ICE to be "OU",
is because of our presumed efficiency of the Carnot cycle.
Otherwise, the mathematics shows us that the combustion of hydrogen is COP ~=1.75, Thermally speaking.
But, since our "ideal heat engine" can only take 50% of that,. we get back 87.5% of our input.

Our inefficiencies give modern physicists an "out" when it comes to the incomplete theory of thermodynamics.
We can show instances where the theory does not hold, and they can rebuttal along the lines of our other thermodynamic failures.
The box is only closed, if we close it.

An ICE can power the alternator that is producing its' gas.
This was never the problem.
The problem occurs in the fact that your engine block heats up to almost 10,000 degrees (actually 9880someish)
and it requires titanium piston heads and cylinders, as well as a special rubber seal material that costs more than the engine you salvaged to produce the test unit.

Also, the engine runs at an RPM much greater than what it was intended for, and fires with greater force, which forces you to remove/disable the transmission, or build a custom transmission to shift with.

This was all done using base metal electrodes.
I personally never had a chance to toy with tungsten-cobalt alloys, but I have done the math.
it is the best (reasonably obtainable) electrode to use for separation of water.
Simple physics, that most people forgot about.

This is a perfect example of how U.S. Corporations have exploited our accredidation system to our own detriment.

Career-specific education

The people that are involved in electrolysis and alternative fuels are not properly trained in electrochemistry.
They are given the basics of what applies to their field of research.
But not the other knowledge that could EXPAND their field of research!!!

Like,. I think EVERY electronics engineer should have to take a class in MUSIC.
BEFORE they are taught about signal processing.

But, we want to segregate the knowledge, so our government can control us.
This is the American way!

it would take an entire team of people to understand everything.

a team which, by design, could never cooperate together in the same room.
We are taught, from preschool, to stay away from each other.

The things that caused the Apple - PC war of the 80s
or why the math geeks don't hang out with the band kids.

How many Structural Engineers, that design the houses and buildings we live in, work in, shop in, can tell you the resonant vibrational frequency of the foundation, or ground-level support beams of the building he sold you?

What class of earthquake would shake this building apart?
What frequency of vibration would a terrorist have to initiate on the side of this concrete block to tear this building into pieces?

I don't know what % the real numbers are like, I can only tell you of the engineers I have met.
it appears to be about 1 in 100, or so, that took it upon themselves, or through life's incidents, to learn the other fields of knowledge to understand that such a thing is even possible.

I state all of this, to tell you there is a frequency that water responds to.
This is the frequency your microwave oven operates at. (Those that make microwaves might know a little about this, but were never taught why)

believe it or not, your microwave actually performs electrolysis, as well as produces steam.
most of the hydrogen and oxygen that separate, are at such a high energy level, that they naturally combine and form water vapor.
sometimes this occurs inside air-pockets in your food and can result in explosions or "popping".

the tungsten-cobalt alloys emit electromagnetic radiation in this frequency range.

similar to a piezoelectric crystal, when you stimulate the electrodes electrically, they respond in a discrete manner.

In addition to the electrical current flowing through the water, causing molecular decay, there is an electromechanical atomic affect within the electrode that assists in tearing apart the water molecules.

What most do NOT note in their analysis, is the quantity of gas on the WRONG SIDE of the electrolysis process.
For THIS REASON - tungsten-cobalt electrolysis must be run through a gas separation process, or the mixed gasses must be catalyzed, to prevent unsafe mixtures in the storage tanks.

The reason this system appears to be "OU", is because we are exploiting the atomic response of the constituents.

Boil water on the stove, vs in the microwave.
And you can see the difference between electrolysis, and tungsten-cobalt electrolysis.

Offline profitis

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Re: 3x hydrogen from water efficiency
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2016, 08:43:14 AM »
They say this catalyst is aimed at the oxygen electrode.

-gia dimokratia

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Re: 3x hydrogen from water efficiency
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2016, 08:43:14 AM »
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Offline 3dtech

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Re: 3x hydrogen from water efficiency
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2016, 09:41:23 AM »
With a combination of theory and clever, meticulous gel-making, scientists from the Department of Energy's SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory and the University of Toronto have developed a new type of catalyst that's three times better than the previous record-holder at splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen -- the vital first step in making fuels from renewable solar and wind power.
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