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Author Topic: Simple questions  (Read 24178 times)

Pirate88179

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2016, 02:17:10 AM »
Quote from: NickZ on March 25, 2016, 02:12:05 AM
  Of course, as OU is just a misnomer.  The point is that solar panels once bought will produce energy that does not cost you a dime.
However, storage batteries are another thing, as they don't come with a 25 years guarantee, nor are they cheap nor free.

   Once we know how to manufacture energy, "out of thin air" the batteries won't be needed, at all.

Solar cells do not produce energy...they only convert it per the laws of physics.  I am not sure we are on the same page here.

Bill
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memoryman

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2016, 02:25:29 AM »
Actually, Nick, we already know that. Converting 'heat' directly into electricity has been done, with microWatt output. Scaling it up into commercial products is being worked on. After all, it isn't energy as such that matters, but the FLOW of energy, which produces work. And getting work done is what we all want
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NickZ

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #47 on: March 25, 2016, 03:18:44 AM »
     Pirate:
    Energy can only be converted, from one form to another, but not produced. So we are on the same page.
    What is producing the energy when a magnet is passed by a coil? That energy is not produced by the magnet, nor the coil, any more than energy is "produced" by a solar panel. 
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Hoppy

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #48 on: March 25, 2016, 09:58:39 AM »
Quote from: NickZ on March 25, 2016, 03:18:44 AM
     Pirate:
    Energy can only be converted, from one form to another, but not produced. So we are on the same page.
    What is producing the energy when a magnet is passed by a coil? That energy is not produced by the magnet, nor the coil, any more than energy is "produced" by a solar panel.

Nick,

If the magnet and coil are stationary, then no energy is produced. If either the coil or the magnet across one another, then electrical energy is produced from the coil. So, the production of electrical energy relies on movement and movement of the coil or magnet rely on energy supplied to the prime mover. In this case, its a conversion of mechanical energy to electrical energy, with the prime mover being the thing doing the movement. However, If a piece of wood is moved across the coil, or vica-versa, then no electrical energy is produced from the coil, so the materials used have to have the necessary elemental properties to be able to cause a reaction between them by external stimulus. In the case of a solar panel, this is the suns radiant energy being directly converted to electricity by the material elements used in the solar panel receptors - free energy once the panel is paid for.  ;) This is simplistically how I see it.
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NickZ

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #49 on: March 25, 2016, 02:46:25 PM »
     I've heard it all before. It's the same bullshit that we learned in school over the last 100 years. And, is why I say that the cause of this energy is NOT coming from the magnet, coils, or their movement.  But, from something else, instead,  the invisible Aether, along with the Earth vortexial motion, and force field. Which you can't prove, or disprove, nor can current science.
That is the "prime mover", in this case, instead.
 
   The Earth vortexial motion and it's force field is what's moving, all the time, and if it were not so, moving a magnet by a coil, would be like moving a piece of wood by the coils, instead.  The cause is not in the movement, but in the field that the magnet and coils are in. The same field that is holding our planet in it's orbit. There is already "movement" going on all the time.  What we need to learn to do, is to tap Earth's force field. Which is what some of these devices are doing. And is what Tesla has mentioned many many times. Yet our best scientist, don't believe it? They think that they know more about it, than Tesla.
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Hoppy

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #50 on: March 25, 2016, 03:07:14 PM »
Quote from: NickZ on March 25, 2016, 02:46:25 PM
     I've heard it all before. It's the same bullshit that we learned in school over the last 100 years. And, is why I say that the cause of this energy is NOT coming from the magnet, coils, or their movement.  But, from something else, instead,  the invisible Aether, along with the Earth vortexial motion, and force field. Which you can't prove, or disprove, nor can current science.
That is the "prime mover", in this case, instead.
 

Well, I'm totally disagreeing with you because if you take a naturally magnetic mineral like lodestone, how do you think it got its magnetic properties all those millions of years ago. Without the magnetic property, movement would not produce a changing flux in the coil.
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NickZ

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #51 on: March 25, 2016, 03:37:44 PM »
    Hoppy:
   Believe what you like.
   So, you also think that you know more than Tesla?  Just by repeating what you've heard in school, or from the same old texts books, like a parrot... 
   Tesla was wrong,  you are right... 
  Well, you don't convince me with your ridiculous proof up to now. 
  I don't really care if you think that all devices are fakes, and that you aim to prove it, but, with NO extraordinary proof, like you'd like to see from any extraordinary device.

   That's it for me on fakes.  However, that's not it for me, concerning the true cause of causes.
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memoryman

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #52 on: March 25, 2016, 03:42:10 PM »
the existence of aether is speculative at best.
IF an imaginary force field were responsible for the electrical output of the coil, neither the magnet nor the motion would be neccessary.
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NickZ

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #53 on: March 25, 2016, 04:49:17 PM »
  It's an imaginary force field that holds this planet in place?  Imaginary? I don't think so..
  Yet, that field is invisible, as is the Aether that sustains it.
  The coils and magnets are how it's been done up done up to now. They may not be the only way to reach our goals of free energy.
 
   Without looking at what causes matter to exist, in the first place. You many not find the real cause of a self running device, which aren't working as closed systems, draining batteries, or connected to the grid. 
  What are they connected to, then, if not the surrounding ambient energies? 
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Hoppy

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #54 on: March 25, 2016, 05:01:05 PM »
Quote from: NickZ on March 25, 2016, 03:37:44 PM
    Hoppy:
   Believe what you like.
   So, you also think that you know more than Tesla?  Just by repeating what you've heard in school, or from the same old texts books, like a parrot... 
   Tesla was wrong,  you are right... 
  Well, you don't convince me with your ridiculous proof up to now. 
  I don't really care if you think that all devices are fakes, and that you aim to prove it, but, with NO extraordinary proof, like you'd like to see from any extraordinary device.

   That's it for me on fakes.  However, that's not it for me, concerning the true cause of causes.

Woah! Lighten-up lad.
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NickZ

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #55 on: March 25, 2016, 05:17:30 PM »
 
   Maybe, You should lighten up... about your evaluations concerning where the extra energy is coming from, (the wall), 
   I just don't buy it...
   Sorry to disagree.

     
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Pirate88179

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #56 on: March 25, 2016, 07:32:48 PM »
Quote from: NickZ on March 25, 2016, 02:46:25 PM
     I've heard it all before. It's the same bullshit that we learned in school over the last 100 years. And, is why I say that the cause of this energy is NOT coming from the magnet, coils, or their movement.  But, from something else, instead,  the invisible Aether, along with the Earth vortexial motion, and force field. Which you can't prove, or disprove, nor can current science.
That is the "prime mover", in this case, instead.
 
   The Earth vortexial motion and it's force field is what's moving, all the time, and if it were not so, moving a magnet by a coil, would be like moving a piece of wood by the coils, instead.  The cause is not in the movement, but in the field that the magnet and coils are in. The same field that is holding our planet in it's orbit. There is already "movement" going on all the time.  What we need to learn to do, is to tap Earth's force field. Which is what some of these devices are doing. And is what Tesla has mentioned many many times. Yet our best scientist, don't believe it? They think that they know more about it, than Tesla.


Come on man, this is like saying that I can place a piece of sandpaper on a block of wood, and it will sand down the wood because both are moving in the universe.  Of course we know it does not work this way.


What we are talking about here is relative motion...the paper to the wood...the magnet to the coil.  To my knowledge, Tesla never said or wrote anything that went against the laws of physics as you suggest.  He was well trained in those laws and all of his work proves this.


If you want to tap into radiant energy, just move a magnet past a coil...but of course, this takes work to do.


Bill
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 09:41:01 PM by Pirate88179 »
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Khwartz

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Re: Simple questions
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2016, 12:34:25 AM »
Quote from: Pirate88179 on March 25, 2016, 02:02:51 AM
Webby is 100% correct.

Take solar cells.  If you gave one to a guy that had no idea what they were, and he put one in the sun and measured 6 volts/300mA, he would claim overunity as he had not put anything into this circuit but was getting all of this output.

Then, as Webby said so eloquently, someone explains to this guy that the sun is putting out all of this energy, and his cell is only 9% efficient, and if you add up the sun's input, minus the losses...guess what?  It equals the output of his cell.  So, now that this guy knows this...no overunity...just unity as the laws of thermodynamics dictate.

The above is a simplistic example yet it applies to ANY situation you can come up with concerning an "unknown" energy source.  It has nothing to do with believing in the impossible, or saying..."as far as we know"...it is just simple physics with some semantics tossed in.

The energy comes from somewhere...once you know where...it is no longer overunity.

Bill
Hi Bill,

I remember you there are TWO ratios which near always confused:

one is the PHYSICAL EFFICIENCY

and the other one is the COEFFICIENT OF PERFORMANCE, or COP.


The first is about what you say: we just make the ratio of the sum of all USABLE// POWER OUTPUTS and we divide by the the sum of all POWER INPUT.


For the COP it has been made to compare the TOTAL USABLE POWER to the TOTAL POWER WE PAY// FOR, that is what we do in heat pumps calculations.


We pump the THERMAL POWER coming from the environment and we transfert it in the house, for example.

To know the COP we don't make the ratio:

INSIDE USABLE THERMAL POWER OUTPUT under (OUTSIDE THERMAL POWER INPUT + MOTOR CONSUMPTION),

which will give us indeed roughly the PHYSICAL EFFICIENCY of the heat pump, we make the ratio:

INSIDE USABLE THERMAL POWER OUTPUT under MOTOR CONSUMPTION

because we might PAY// for the energy to feed the motor of the pump.

And yes, as for the photovoltaic cells, the PHYSICAL EFFICIENCY will be low but the COP is several times overunity.


So, I do agree with you: as soon as we know the SOURCE, the RESERVOIR ("Dirac sea", "Zero Point Energy", Radiant Energy", Cosmic Rays, etc.) then we should be able to demonstrate it will have an EXPENSE in energy with which we will make the conversion, but still, as these energy would be FOR FREE, then the COP is INFINITE, like in any indeed existing "Free Energy Devices" like solar system, wind turbines, hydroelectric power plants.

Note:

It is NOT because the ENERGY RESERVOIR is For Free that it cost nothing to "PUMP" in the reservoir or to CONVERT its energy; its what happen clearly with heat pumps.

But any device has a COST TO BUILT IT and a USING DURATION, and maybe some maintenance to do during its life. This COST should be divided by the number of kWh it will produce during this same period of time, and often, we see that this cost is far to be negligible! This is what make solar, wind and sea kWh having indeed a price so that they are not "For Free", even just taken just out of the power plant.
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