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Author Topic: Where does the energy come from?  (Read 20185 times)

Offline allcanadian

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Where does the energy come from?
« on: October 31, 2006, 10:52:44 AM »
From the amount of stupid comments made by OU critics I thought the OU community should have some kind of standardized responses to the critics statements,so here are some responses I use.

Critic: You can't get something for nothing.
Answer: So explain this nothing to me?  Where exactly is it? If matter has energy as in E=mc squared then matter would have lots of energy like an atomic bomb has and nothing would have no energy. So if thephysics is correct? then all matter having high energy must be rushing towards this nothing having no energy at the speed of light, to fill this nothingness void just as hot flows to cold. So if this nothing is always being filled with energy from matter why is there still nothing?, this seems a little impossible. So basically thephysics we know and love is a contradiction in terms, you can't get something for nothing-but at no point anywhere anytime can you have nothing.

Critic: So where does the energy come from?
Answer: E=mc squared , Energy equals M times the speed of light(C) squared, this means all matter which must have mass, has energy due to it's velocity(the speed of light). It is also interesting to note that Force=mass x acceleration and any velocity squared is an acceleration. So all matter has energy because it is moving, matter also has an electric field(charges) and magnetic fields are defined as moving charges. Now I wonder what would happen if a machine put out more energy than was put in, the energy must come from somewhere? What if the energy of this machine was taken from a permanent magnetic field, this would imply that the magnetic field must weaken. But here is the catch-If the magnetic field weakened and the magnetic field is nothing more than a moving charge(matter)then the matter must have lost some of it's velocity, and if the matter has lost some of it's velocity it has lost energy(E=mc sq), and if the matter has lost energy it is at a lower energy state that all the other matter surrounding it, and we all know energy moves from the higher energy state to the lower energy state(hot to cold-high to low). So we could say the energy comes from all matter surrounding the machine and is transferred through the difference in velocity between matter losing energy and all other matter. Clear as mud, here is a good analogy- let's say the electron(moving charge) spinning around an atom is a gear in the middle of a table filled with other gears,and all the gears are meshing together and spinning at the same speed(the speed of light).What happens if you try to slow down just the middle gear? In order to slow down the middle gear all the other gears must slow down because they are linked together, so the energy gained or taken from the middle gear comes from all the nearby gears, and it's funny that this analogy would act exactly like what the physicists call entropy. The energy comes from matter, and because of the scale it is near impossible to measure.

Critic:So why don't you patent it and become rich and famous
Answer: How about I build one and give it to you, we will see how far you get.
Go to the US patent website, read the fine print- you cannot patent these devices and when it hits the news some 250 pound oilpatch rigger who just got laid off will show up on your doorstep because he just lost his job and really he is not happy at all, It's all bad.
Share it put it on the net.

Critic: You can't do that, it's the conservation of energy silly?
Answer: Yes exactly, that's why you can do it.
goto-So where does the energy come from?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2006, 06:07:15 AM by allcanadian »

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Where does the energy come from?
« on: October 31, 2006, 10:52:44 AM »

Offline pg46

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Re: Where does the energy come from?
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2006, 12:50:01 PM »
Hi Allcanadian-

Here below in quotes is something I read somewhere on the internet and saved it. Unfortunately I can't remember who wrote it and I sincerely hope they don't mind me reprinting it here.



"The word overunity describes any energy process that yields more energy than the process requires. While mainstream science would call this concept a myth, it's actually a common phenomenon.
There are three types of overunity. Biological, Bio-Mechanical, and Mechanical. The first two types are garden variety. The third type is hidden from plain view.
An example of biological overunity is simple. A man leaves his home and walks to a pear tree in his back yard. He expends a given number of calories to exract even more calories from the pear tree. This type of overunity happens so often, it's hardly noteworthy. In fact, without this type of overunity, life itself would be impossible. We would starve to death in little time.
Bio-mechanical overunity is as common as biological overunity. One obvious example is a man using a chainsaw to cut firewood. The thermal energy used by the chainsaw is less than the thermal energy available from the cut wood. Another example is a tanker truck hauling gasoline from a refinery to a gas station. The energy being dragged behind the tractor in the huge tank is much greater than the energy being expended by the diesel engine the tractor uses to move about. The "bio" part of the equation is the human control in each of these examples.
Mechanical overunity isn't as easy to see, but it exists as a matter of deductive logic. Human beings can imitate natural process. No mystery there. Overunity electrical generators have been developed by garage dwellers that have an output that is 40 percent higher than input. An electric motor is used to turn a heavy flywheel. Using electronic trigger switches, electricity is cut off to the motor, which momentarily becomes a generator. If the motor is off more than its on, it yields more energy than is required by the process.
One common element of all these processes is the existance of suplemental free energy processes. For example, the pear tree couldnt produce pears without that huge ball of hydrogen we're all familiar with. The star named Sol that we all use everyday, is a natural free energy process."

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Where does the energy come from?
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2006, 03:21:48 PM »
Hi,

You probably have found in an 'aol journal' like I did, it is here:
http://journals.aol.com/hypoxia2k7/TechSuppression/archive/2005/09 and see 9/20/05   The common phenomenon of overunity,  posted by hypoxia2k7

Gyula

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Re: Where does the energy come from?
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2006, 03:21:48 PM »
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Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: Where does the energy come from?
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2006, 03:29:50 AM »
Energy can not be created nor destroyed it can only change form. the constant change of form is overunity or maybe just unity? so why not tap into this constant change unity/overunity to run a motor. :)

peace

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Where does the energy come from?
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2006, 05:00:11 PM »
I firmly believe most "free energy" machines tap MCE energy, meaning the energy comes from ambient temperature.

There might be other known devices that tap into some form of quantum foam, but in honor of the older scientists such as Tesla I prefer to call it aether. Here's a very very brief description of _temporarily_ extracting energy from the intrinsic electron spin that to date no QM (Quantum Mechanics) physicists has any answer to -->

Two magnetic moments that go into magnetic alignment. The result is net magnetic field, which is energy, but no QM physicists knows where the energy comes from. If we duplicate this experiment with tiny current loops then we know from experimentation that the energy comes from the coils power source due to induction.  QM holds that the electron spin _cannot_ change. If true then we there must be another force that binds and sustains the electron because when two magnetic moments align energy is coming from someplace.

I conversed with ~ half dozen QM physicists on this topic. They were stumped. Their final advice was to do the experiment. I'm presently conversing with a world famous QM physicist, who's been on national TV many times, with this topic. So far he has no answer.

Regards,
Paul Lowrance

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Re: Where does the energy come from?
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2006, 05:00:11 PM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: Where does the energy come from?
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2006, 06:04:39 PM »
I found my answers in E=mc(sq), and the gear analogy I made in my original post, which seems more likely? multiple universes, particles popping in and out of existence, quantum foam? or all space is filled with matter- you know that 80% the astronomers can't find in empty space? As well there is the human element in physics, some smart ass has a new string theory which is just mind bending- the question is do you agree so you don't look stupid in front of your peers? or do you confront the theory from a rational-logical perspective. One year after Einstein's general relitivity, only one person could say he understood what was implied,one year!! Today it seems any quack with a degree can propose sheer madness and most everyone jumps on the bandwagon, I believe it is because they do not want to look stupid, so they agree without cause.
A better question is Who understands E=mc(sq)? Explain the very basics to me in every detail in it's entirety. I am afraid only Einstein could, most everyones work I have read falls short of explaining even the most basic questions. I love talking with these people, I can tear there fragile reality to shreads in minutes, because there is no foundation, no proof , they seem to be wearing the emperors new clothes.
just a though

Offline Liberty

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Re: Where does the energy come from?
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2006, 07:10:31 PM »
My theory on where energy comes from when using permanent magnets.

http://www.airlancomputer.com/page7.html

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Where does the energy come from?
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2006, 07:10:31 PM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: Where does the energy come from?
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2006, 09:47:08 PM »
It's nice to see people who form opinions based on research! What I suggest is pretty much what you have said on your website, with one addition. If energy(spin) is taken from the magnetic system, as the conservation of energy states, energy must come from somewhere. What most people do not know is moving charges(current in an electromagnet)does not Create a magnetic field, that is impossible, energy cannot be created or destroyed. A moving charge produces a steering force on the atoms aligning the magnetic field that was already there, in the atoms. A permanent magnet has the atoms magnetic field locked in domains, so if energy was extracted this  cannot break the domains so something must give. If the magnetic energy is a function of spin(energy) times mass(matter),then matter cannot change so spin must. If spin(energy) was extracted then all surrounding matter must give the magnetic system spin(energy) as a function of entropy. You cannot say entropy or conservation of energy only works some of the time, or only in  some instances. The question is if the PM's matter is moving at the speed of light(300,000 Km/sec) and 1/1000,000th of it slowed by 1km/sec could you detect it,No. Because chaos says the matter losing spin could be anywhere in the system, the localized loss through entropy must effect the whole, acting at the speed of light. So we have an explanation for the energy in PM's we just have no benchmarks or means to measure it, so the world remains flat in most peoples minds.

Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Where does the energy come from?
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2009, 12:45:36 AM »
Try this....

http://aias.us

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Where does the energy come from?
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2009, 12:45:36 AM »
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Offline Liberty

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Re: Where does the energy come from?
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2009, 11:35:35 PM »
My theory on where energy comes from when using permanent magnets.

http://www.airlancomputer.com/page7.html

Current web address is http://www.dynamaticmotors.com

The energy comes from the atomic structure of the atom.  (Clean and Natural Atomic power).

Offline d3adp00l

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Re: Where does the energy come from?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2009, 08:50:13 AM »
A theory is not a string of words that sounds scientific. It is a precept that has mathematical computations to quatify it. The mechanical nature of those computations normally describe the device to Proof the theory. Although in some cases the device is beyond current ability of manufacture.

In that one can work from the device backward to a theory, or forward from theory to device.

I believe the words should be hypothesis, but even that has some measure of quatifiable justification.

The current models of magnetic motors that have been made and replicated are all (+1) + (-1) = 0 at their simplest. There are much more complex versions but in the end they are the above statement.

We need to define the properties of these magnets and then arrange them is such a way that 1+1=2 or even 1+0=1

Heck even quantifying the energy content of a magnet in some form, or even defining why only certain metals are magnetic.

Thats a good place to start, what is the source of their magnetism. How does it function, what exactly is the field.

The people who work with these things every day laugh because we cant understand even the basic principles with which they work.

If we want to get there we need to act like it.

What do the magnetic metals have in common?
Why?

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Re: Where does the energy come from?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2009, 08:50:13 AM »
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Offline Liberty

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Re: Where does the energy come from?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2009, 01:43:18 PM »
A theory is not a string of words that sounds scientific. It is a precept that has mathematical computations to quatify it. The mechanical nature of those computations normally describe the device to Proof the theory. Although in some cases the device is beyond current ability of manufacture.

In that one can work from the device backward to a theory, or forward from theory to device.

I believe the words should be hypothesis, but even that has some measure of quatifiable justification.

The current models of magnetic motors that have been made and replicated are all (+1) + (-1) = 0 at their simplest. There are much more complex versions but in the end they are the above statement.

We need to define the properties of these magnets and then arrange them is such a way that 1+1=2 or even 1+0=1

Heck even quantifying the energy content of a magnet in some form, or even defining why only certain metals are magnetic.

Thats a good place to start, what is the source of their magnetism. How does it function, what exactly is the field.

The people who work with these things every day laugh because we cant understand even the basic principles with which they work.

If we want to get there we need to act like it.

What do the magnetic metals have in common?
Why?

We need to define the properties of these magnets and then arrange them is such a way that 1+1=2 or even 1+0=1

This has essentially already been done, and is what enables proper magnetic design of a permanent magnet motor.  It is not quite that clear cut to "define the properties of magnets" since they are not all identical and the properties change with shape and strength and type of magnet.  It is not a math equation, but a design through understanding of how magnets work together.  Once you understand this, then you can use a rough math equation to approximate expected performance.

Many make mistakes by supposing that math or programs can make discoveries in this area, but it is only a supporting factor after the discovery by experimentation.

"The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens."

Offline d3adp00l

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Re: Where does the energy come from?
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2009, 08:09:44 AM »
It hasn't been done.

And if you would like to split hairs with properties then nothing can ever be modeled because their vector position will always be different. Don't be a lame, you and I both know the properties that I speak of. Thats a cop out and a non answer reply.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2009, 07:28:44 PM by d3adp00l »

Offline scotty1

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Re: Where does the energy come from?
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2009, 01:36:36 PM »
AllCanadian..
You can measure the change in a magnet
----------------
"Now I will tell you what happened to the U shape magnet while you pushed the coil through it from West to East. Set up the three-foot magnet so it can turn, put the coil with core in it in the U shape magnet, now approach the three-foot magnet's South Pole with the U shape magnet's South Pole. As soon as the three-foot magnet begins to move you stop and mark the distance.

Take the coil away, approach again as soon as the three-foot magnet begins to move away, then stop and mark the distance, then you will see how much strength the U shape magnet lost while you were pushing the coil in and halfway out, of the U shape magnet.

The U shape magnet was losing its strength up to the time it began to break away from the iron core, but during the time the U shape magnet broke away it regained its strength.

The breaking away from the iron core recharged the U shape magnet, then it became normal again and ready for the next start. During the recharging the new supply of magnets came from the air or the earth's magnetic field. Now we see how the magnetic currents are made by the U shape magnet.

 You already know that before the coil got in between the U shape magnet prongs those little individual magnets were running out of the U shape magnet prongs in all directions, but as soon as the coil's core came in effective distance from the U shape magnet's prongs then these little individual magnets began to run in the core and coil and kept running until the core broke away from the U shape magnet prongs.

Now you see those little individual magnets ran out of the U shape magnet and ran in the soft iron core, but the soft iron core never held the magnets, it pushed them out. (into the coil)...Ed Leedskalnin.
-------------
The 3 foot magnet is a 1/8" dia welding rod, set up as a compass.
The U magnet is large and must lift 20lbs.
The coil is 3" long...1 1/2" dia core.
18g wire with 1500 turns. FYI  ;D

"The reason I call the results of North and South Pole magnet's functions magnetic currents and not electric currents or electricity is the electricity is connected too much with those non-existing electrons. If it had been called magneticity then I would accept it. Magneticity would indicate that it has a magnetic base and so it would be all right.

As I said in the beginning, the North and South Pole magnets they are the cosmic force. They hold together this earth and everything on it." Ed. L

AllC...
If the domains of the magnet are fixed in the matter then why doesn't the field rotate with the matter radially?
Put 2 speaker magnets close together in attraction.
You can rotate one as much as you like and the second will not move at all...even though the attraction is great.
I have a youtube clip of my experiment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlUY3snoWI8

Also. Remember that a copper disc stuck to the spinning magnet will make current because it is still cutting the lines of force...so if the domains are moving with the magnet matter, then how can the copper disc cut the lines of force?
The fact that the copper disc makes current proves that the lines of force are stationary, even though the magnet is rotating with the disc.
Scotty.



Offline Liberty

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Re: Where does the energy come from?
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2009, 03:52:39 PM »
It hasn't been done.

And if you would like to split hairs with properties then nothingcan ever be modeled before their vector position will always be different. Don't be a lame, you and I both know the properties that I speak of. Thats a cop out and a non answer reply.

If you are just talking about making a motor that doesn't switch magnetic poles but is just a simple arrangement of magnets, then I don't think you will have much success as history and electromagnetic industry shows.  Or if you are able to find a way to barely make it spin, it will have no usable output torque because of conflicting magnetic fields and it will stress the magnets.  Industry knows all about electromagnetic motors and how to make them work well.  Magnets are like electromagnets that don't turn off and don't require power input to function.  The question is:  How to take advantage of this in a motor?  I appear to have found a way to do this. 

 

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