Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Discussion board help and admin topics => Half Baked Ideas => Topic started by: MagnaProp on March 03, 2016, 05:50:59 AM

Title: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: MagnaProp on March 03, 2016, 05:50:59 AM
...is what I hope to be able to say some day.  8)

But for now it's just an idea. Please note that while I do believe a permanent magnet motor is possible, I also strongly believe that in another week, another month, another year, this particular design still won't self run but I don't plan to let that stop me from trying.

https://youtu.be/OHDxBjGvhU4

https://youtu.be/yTu8_HeuknA


Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: TechStuf on March 03, 2016, 07:21:20 AM
Your optimism is heartening.  Consider that, at least for the time being, any energies over unity must be converted to electricity at some point.  And the mechanical to electric conversion should be accomplished with as great efficiency as is practical. 

Your experience tells you, thus far, that should you manage to break C.O.P.>1, it won't be by a margin wide enough to warrant full scale production.  In fact, one would have to produce many devices in series or parallel, or of enormous scale to turn a generator vigorously enough to make the venture practical. 

So, instead of going around in circles just to step up to going around in larger circles, maybe you should take a look at the dynamics of Magnetic Induction in the first place.  Instead of seeking the 'holier than thou' grail of 'perpetual motion' via permanent magnets, perhaps seek first to discover a way to increase the efficiency by which magnets are made to produce electricity through an inductive metal medium.

There are various curious methods by which to coax PMs into Upping the Ante in This Arena.

How to easily make a PM captured in a copper Cage dance like a droplet of H2O on a red hot Skillet....



?





TS
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: stoyan_ on March 03, 2016, 01:32:21 PM
Anyone to try to build this ?
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: seychelles on March 03, 2016, 05:09:18 PM
one mistake every body is making is that a magnet is a vortex traveling at the speed of light, it is not static as most people think..
so when one wants to invent a p m motor the magnets has to be moving at north or south axis. not static..
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: MagnaProp on March 04, 2016, 10:35:07 AM
...perhaps seek first to discover a way to increase the efficiency by which magnets are made to produce electricity through an inductive metal medium...
Thanks for the info and I basically agree with all you said. I present the perm mag motor idea, not necessarily as the end result but perhaps some part of it can be utilized to make a system that includes the use of electricity. If we can get the magnets to almost turn by themselves alone, then they should only need to sip electricity in order to get a system that is efficient and useful.

gotoluc mentioned not to long ago that having the bloch wall of a magnet face the north or south side of an electromagnet, appeared to be a more efficient design. I noticed that what he mentioned is basically the arrangement I had in this design. If we replace my linearly moving stators with coils, we simplify the design into something much more practical. It quickly becomes his design with the only real difference being that I utilize both sides of the electromagnet which hopefully increases efficiency of the system.

Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: MagnaProp on March 04, 2016, 10:59:22 AM
Anyone to try to build this ?
I did a quick experiment of it with some magnets in my hand. The movement appeared to be either left of right depending on which side it was nearest from center. The issue I see with this design is the same I have with mine in that the longer the ramp is, the less likely the magnet is to move towards that direction. This is because magnetism like water goes for the shortest route. My design tries to keep the ramp as short as possible by having it be no longer than half a circle at any given time.

So the trick seems to be, keep the moving magnet in the shortest ramp possible then replace that ramp with another identical one when the time is right. This is what my design attempts to do. Initially I had it devided into 6 segments for shorter ramps but went with this one for a little more simplicity due to fewer moving parts.

I still don't like the linear movement the stator ramps make in my perm mag design. Constantly starting and stopping them as they move up and down seems very ineficient to me. It isn't shown in the design but it's the spinning magnets that bump the stator magnet ramps up and down which I think will cause a lot of friction.

I do like how the ramps move up and down in a more unified field due to the stationary magnets. This should help them move up and down easier. Without the stationary magnets, I think we'll have the same issues that the Torbay motor had. Torbay had a lot of magnets moving in and out of magnetic fields which magnets don't do willingly.

I also like how in the stacked design, the linear movement amount remains the same which suggests some kind of benefit could be had from that.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: MagnaProp on March 04, 2016, 11:05:07 AM
one mistake every body is making is that a magnet is a vortex traveling at the speed of light, it is not static as most people think..
so when one wants to invent a p m motor the magnets has to be moving at north or south axis. not static..

I'm afraid that building particle accelerators and convex superconducting flux capacitors is beyond the real of possibilities from me. I've seen magnets help electrical devices from Tinman run more efficiently so I'm doing my best to stay with what I can just barely understand.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: stoyan_ on March 04, 2016, 03:25:41 PM
Anyone to go for checking this configuration, immitating Lorentz force ?
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: stoyan_ on March 04, 2016, 03:26:09 PM
and the Lorentz force.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: MagnaProp on March 05, 2016, 08:08:20 AM
Anyone to go for checking this configuration, immitating Lorentz force ?

I would have to see another image. I don't understand the construction of your device as shown in your image.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: stoyan_ on March 05, 2016, 08:26:19 AM
this is perhaps more convenient construction.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: TechStuf on March 07, 2016, 08:14:09 AM
     Magnets break newton's 3rd "law" all the time.  They are able to apply leverage without a fulcrum and thus can be made to induce rotation without back torque.  In essence, they can be made to interact such that one magnet leverages another into causing induction, without experiencing loss of momentum itself.

     Quantum states, on/off, virtual/real, etc....themselves are indicative of managed reality.  Much like those virtual realities man makes for himself all the time.  The fact that perpetual motion is recognized as real, vis a vis spinning electrons, helps lend credence to the idea that our reality is manufactured, and therefore physical 'laws' only apply by situation. 

     Among the foremost reasons that most have not witnessed a working PM motor is the fact that VERY few are working hands on with the creativity, focus, and tenacity required to shape and time the interactions of both individual and aggregate magnetic fields.


And it helps to remember, one realm's hardware is another Realm's software....




TS
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: stoyan_ on March 07, 2016, 11:10:36 AM
I am getting mixed signals. :D . Yes or No ?
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: MagnaProp on March 09, 2016, 08:58:49 AM
@TechStuf- Thanks for the words of wisdom. They are encouraging towards the efforts here.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: MagnaProp on March 09, 2016, 09:11:42 AM
I am getting mixed signals. :D . Yes or No ?
Sorry. Forgot this thread was about your device  ;)

Does this image represent what you are showing? If not then I'm going to have to go with No for 200 Alex.

If it does then I still don't see why there would be any movement caused in your circular system. Once you turn your linear track into a circular one, you kill the dipoles. The dipoles are where the tracks energy comes from. My device attempts to keep the dipoles open by having no more than half the circular track lined up at any given time, similar to Torbay. My hope is that this is a more efficient yet still not self running version of the Torbay. More efficient in that there is less resistance to it not self running. I know, what a breakthrough ::)



Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: stoyan_ on March 09, 2016, 10:42:53 AM
Yeah . It is cool, but harder (more expensive) to get such magnet.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: stoyan_ on March 09, 2016, 10:54:48 AM
Yeah. Sorry Magna. Will put it on other thread. Cheers.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: stoyan_ on March 09, 2016, 11:03:18 AM
But doestn in macroscale the movement is caused as result of interaction of magnetic fields.

same as with electric motor case ?
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: MagnaProp on March 09, 2016, 08:42:19 PM
But doestn in macroscale the movement is caused as result of interaction of magnetic fields.

same as with electric motor case ?
Electric motors try to get to a position and that position constantly changes.
What position does your design try to get to and how does that position constantly change?

You bring up the Lorentz force but I don't see how it applies to your design. In your Lorentz diagram, when the magnetic force arrows move in the same direction you get repulsion. When the arrows crash into each other, you get attraction. That's why I think Tesla pancake coils work well. The lag in its design between the two wires causes the magnetic field arrows to crash into each other, making a stronger field. Discussing other ideas like yours in this thread is good but we might have to fake interest in mine from time to time is all.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: stoyan_ on March 09, 2016, 10:12:53 PM
i think it is because it "compresses" (makes longer the path of magnetic field lines from N to S) and the try to recover their initial state->shortest path from N to S.

same case as with magnetic motor.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: stoyan_ on March 09, 2016, 10:14:20 PM
and the Lorentz force
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: stoyan_ on March 09, 2016, 10:15:13 PM
@Magna

"What position does your design try to get to and how does that position constantly change?"

same as with Lorentz equivalent design.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: stoyan_ on March 09, 2016, 10:17:51 PM
" In your Lorentz diagram, when the magnetic force arrows move in the same direction you get repulsion. When the arrows crash into each other, you get attraction."

maybe it is exactly the opposite->
when the arrows are opposite, i get repulsion, when same direction i get attraction.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: MagnaProp on March 09, 2016, 10:48:04 PM
...
maybe it is exactly the opposite->
when the arrows are opposite, i get repulsion, when same direction i get attraction.
I'm referring to the small field lines in your diagram. You mention compression and the lines try to become short again. I can agree with that but why are the lines not compressed equally on both sides of the central point of magnetic radiation? My answer is when the lines crash into each other, attraction occurs so the lines are shorter. When the lines move in the same direction, repulsion occurs so the lines get longer.

Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: stoyan_ on March 10, 2016, 01:24:35 PM
so the configuration of magnetic field lines from shielded magnet and the ring magnet  Doesn't represent the same picture as attached by you ?
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: stoyan_ on March 10, 2016, 09:46:49 PM
I mean if you picture/map magnetic field lines from stator -> shielded magnet together with magnetic field lines from rotor (ring magnet)

the diagram will be same as with Lorentz force.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: MagnaProp on March 12, 2016, 04:26:06 AM
so the configuration of magnetic field lines from shielded magnet and the ring magnet  Doesn't represent the same picture as attached by you ?
Sorry. I don't see how they are even close to being the same.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: stoyan_ on March 12, 2016, 10:40:22 AM
Now you should see  ;)
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: MagnaProp on March 12, 2016, 09:19:52 PM
Ok but the flux looks like it's trapped in the Mu-metal shield. If it's trapped in the shield, how does it interact with the field from the large circular magnets?

A current carrying wire doesn't keep all the flux trapped in the wire. If we saturate your shield then the escaping field is not longer circular. It leaks out of all the edges of the Mu-metal.

If you idea works, we can use at least two to get the attraction and the repulsion working for us. I have four in the image but really only two would be relevant for what we want.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: MagnaProp on March 12, 2016, 09:38:49 PM
I initially thought you were going to use the open side of the magnets as the usable flux direction. That part isn't trapped in the cow metal.

Worth a try but I don't thing it'll work. Maybe if the cow metal is thin enough on one side so it gets saturated, then the other side can still leak out for interaction with the other field?

Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: stoyan_ on March 13, 2016, 08:01:58 AM
I've made a test with rectangular magnet stator . There is force between the two magnets in only one direction ( as shown on the picture).

It remains to confirm/discard in case of ring magnet stator.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: MagnaProp on March 14, 2016, 09:09:49 AM
Sounds good. Pass or fail, let us know how it goes as all info in helpful.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: stoyan_ on March 14, 2016, 09:20:20 AM
My question is does anyone can build it it with ring magnet.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: stoyan_ on March 17, 2016, 11:58:35 PM
Anyone to try. Perhaps not so hard to build for testing.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: MagnaProp on March 18, 2016, 05:16:42 AM
I don't have any cow metal to play with. Best I can do is tin. Tin won't soak up to saturation, so the shielded rotor magnets will always be attracted a little to the outside stator magnets which would cause drag. The rotor magnets would have to be exactly between the stator magnets so that the 90 degree pull on the stator magnets would be equaled out. Even if perfectly centered, perm magnet fields are not perfectly linear so being directly in the center may not be easy. We need someone with some Mooo metal, not tin.

A current carrying wire wouldn't have such a problem since magnets aren't attracted to it. It basically radiates magnetism without soaking up any from the stator magnets.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: stoyan_ on March 18, 2016, 11:13:21 PM
Are you interested to propose it to any "magnet" company (producer or seller with workshop) ?
I've send around 10 mails with the pictures, posted here .
perhaps they will agree.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: MagnaProp on March 18, 2016, 11:34:19 PM
Sorry. I would have to see some indication that it actually worked, even if it was very very weak, before I suggest approaching any company with the idea. If you have a video of your initial test you talked about where you saw or felt the effect, that would be helpful. My initial tests so far don't show the movement you describe.

While I think it's worth testing, I don't think it'll actually work so I can't spend time on it myself or recommend that others do so at this time.
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: stoyan_ on April 09, 2016, 08:54:43 AM
And the latest version!
Title: Re: Permanent Magnet Motor- gobs and gobs of free energy!!!...
Post by: stoyan_ on April 11, 2016, 08:05:09 PM
More acuracy.