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Hydrogen energy => Electrolysis of H20 and Hydrogen on demand generation => Topic started by: Panos25 on February 24, 2016, 04:25:55 PM

Title: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Panos25 on February 24, 2016, 04:25:55 PM
There are two machines made from Petros Zografos.

One generates huge amounts of HHO and the other generates directly electricity.
The main principle of both machines is the same and they do not work with any kind of electrolysis.

The production of the HHO is done by bombarding water with high frequency electromagnetic waves in a scale of THz ( the exact frequency is kept secret).
In order to achieve the reaction we need two more things, one is a metal alloy ( again a secret, but it is made from very common metals, as the inventor says) and the second is a kind of colloid ( once again a secret, but there are no more secrets, this is the last one! :) )

In the process of HHO production the metal alloy disintegrates and the device producing almost 47 MJoule/Kgr = 13 KWh (per kilo of metal alloy) with a cost of 0.8 Euros/Kgr ( in the articles they say 7-8 euros/Kgr but in mass production it costs 0.8 euro/Kgr or less)
The power consumption of the electromagnetic wave generator is 350 mWatt which it is been produced from the device itself.

The device became known to the public from a popular Greek journalist Makis Triantafilopoulos by presenting it on his internet TV Channel of zougla.gr

There are plenty of videos presenting the device and opening it down to the core! there are no hidden wires or batteries.

It can supply power for devices like drills and heaters ( the device he is presenting on the TV show is 700W output)


Here are some links : (sorry almost everything is in Greek)

inventors bio: https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%A0%CE%AD%CF%84%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%82_%CE%96%CF%89%CE%B3%CF%81%CE%AC%CF%86%CE%BF%CF%82

TV Show - Demo of HHO device: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaPonbPUQ_I&spfreload=10
TV Show - Demo of electricity production device: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sK9ceGtry8&spfreload=10

HHO device running a motorbike: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWQHV1zXcD0&spfreload=10

device tear down:
main body: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_Ps1R03WqM&spfreload=10
core         : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehbuUxqM4Zk&spfreload=10

The patent and schematics are here:
http://www.hellagen.gr/search/label/ΠΑΤΕΝΤΑ

site dedicated to the invention: http://www.hellagen.gr

You can find much more information by googling "Petros Zografos" or "Πετρος Ζωγραφος"

This subject was mentioned here before, in 3-4 posts in another discussion but I believe it worths a discussion of his own due to the big impact that creates in energy production.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: EdChe on August 07, 2017, 04:49:21 AM
What about 13.56 MHz?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: EdChe on August 07, 2017, 07:26:05 PM
Test tube in an RF machine at 13.56 MHz with saltwater produces pure constant flame above it:

Water As Fuel Unlocked by Frequency Resonance:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8xYUDiSGDk

Salt Water Into Fuel (HD3 News):  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGg0ATfoBgo


"Instead of broadly slamming the water molecule with an offset voltage for hydrolysis - the applied voltage is specifically applied in a process that coaxes the hydrogen atom off the water molecule. For example, this is rather like getting a singer on precisely the right pitch to break a glass. In this case, to use the analogy, the glass is the precise bond geometry of hydrogen.

"This approach well result in a drastic reduction in the power or wattage required for splitting hydrogen from water. This means virtually unlimited energy from water on demand. The commercial possibilities are obviously planetary, revolutionary, carbon neutral, renewable and profitable.

"This technology can be upsized or downsized as required to accommodate small, medium or large generator systems as well. Other engines for our consideration would be older diesel trucks that will have great difficulty in passing future emission regulations. In fact this market is huge."

More examples:
Produce clean gaseous fuels for gas welding equipment
Hydrogen for various applications including in ceramic fuel cells for converting it directly to electricity
Oxyhydrogen for industrial use
Hot water heater, stove, domestic furnace
Fuel enhancement to improve combustibility
Fuel vehicles, tractors, generators of all kinds, pumps, heavy machinery


A Resonant energy transfer.
Up to 1500 degrees Centigrade.

Ed.

Source:  http://breakthru-technologies.com/technologies/fractal-field-technologies
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: pomodoro on August 08, 2017, 02:19:10 AM
Its good to be excited about these claims but take them all with a grain of salt. The first law of thermodynamics dictates that no matter how you break up the water molecule, the same energy is required. In other words they all use the same energy. Considering normal electrolysis is already quite efficient if done properly, when you take into consideration fancy power supplies, rf generators etc, these other methods, if they actually work, will use more power than a simple DC setup for electrolysis.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on June 11, 2018, 05:10:34 PM
A homemade generator at 22 - 24 GHz is ready. What's next?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: memoryman on June 11, 2018, 05:58:02 PM
The original article mentions THz; the photo show 17-26GHz. Care to explain?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on June 11, 2018, 07:55:56 PM
The original article mentions THz;
This is technically impossible. All equipment, waveguides, filters, etc., which we see on the video Zografos, no more than 20 -25 GHz.

For the THz range, it would be completely different equipment. It is hardly possible to buy it.

The spectrum analyzers on its video are no more than 1 - 1.5 GHz. Their description can be found on the Internet by reading the model from the video.

Flexible gold-plated waveguides no more than 10 - 12 GHz. This is determined by the size of the hole.

Cross section of standard waveguides:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waveguide_(electromagnetism) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waveguide_(electromagnetism))

Standard waveguide type WR3 is for frequencies not more as 220.00 - 330.00 GHz. There are no standard waveguides of higher frequencies.

The internal window size of such a waveguide is very small, 0.0340 × 0.0170 inches. Only a very small ant passes through this waveguide. I cannot see this small waveguide on Zografos video.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: memoryman on June 11, 2018, 09:32:33 PM
I am not disagreeing with you: just pointed out the discrepancy.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: centraflow on June 12, 2018, 06:09:23 PM
Its good to be excited about these claims but take them all with a grain of salt. The first law of thermodynamics dictates that no matter how you break up the water molecule, the same energy is required. In other words they all use the same energy. Considering normal electrolysis is already quite efficient if done properly, when you take into consideration fancy power supplies, rf generators etc, these other methods, if they actually work, will use more power than a simple DC setup for electrolysis.


What you say is true about normal electrolysis, but you can make it way over 100% efficient for hydrogen production. You are going to say how is that possible?


Well you don't need the oxygen, in fact the oxygen mixed with the hydrogen is in most cases a problem. So what do we do with the oxygen?


You use it to oxidise a metal (nickel oxide to nickel hydroxide oxide is excellent). Oxygen is a very electromotive atom, it is what creates the charge in rechargeable batteries.


This you use to create more hydrogen and the system was invented by me for cheap hydrogen production from water, given free for anyone to use. It has been published and replicated, it is called SMD hydrogen from water, it reduces power input by over 30%.


Regards


Mike 8)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Paul-R on June 12, 2018, 06:25:31 PM
The first law of thermodynamics dictates that no matter how you break up the water molecule, the same energy is required. In other words they all use the same energy.
Bob Boyce et alia put that argument to bed years ago. Do you still believe that nobody has exceeded Faraday's rule?

John Worrell Keely got results from 42.8khz, a figure used by Bob Boyce, along with one octave lower and another an octave lower than that, all at the same time. Clipped sharp pulses.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on June 14, 2018, 04:44:46 PM
I do not understand how Zografos converts hydrogen into electricity. Membranes do not allow to be obtained a large current and voltage  by a simple method.
This patent can clarify this, with using Circuit 3, but probably it is not so easy as described:
https://patents.google.com/patent/RU2409704C1/en (https://patents.google.com/patent/RU2409704C1/en)

Quote
The chemically pure water at a temperature of 25 ° C for about one to 5 × 10 September molecule dissociates according to the scheme 2 O↔N H + + OH - [Physical Encyclopedia.   T.1, M .: «Soviet Encyclopedia", 1988, s.296].  When exposed to varying electric, magnetic and electromagnetic fields to water (aqueous electrolyte), the frequency and direction selectively effects affect the degree of water dissociation.   The mechanism of this influence is explained as follows.    Vibrations of molecules - one of the basic types of intramolecular motion, wherein there is a periodic change in the relative location of the nuclei of atoms constituting the molecule.   The water molecule has two valence vibrations and one strain [Physical Encyclopedia.   V.2, M .: "Soviet Encyclopedia", 1990, s.405].  In addition, the atoms in interaction with each other in a condensed medium to which the liquid and solid state, always acquire electric charge, becoming positively or negatively charged ions [Physical Encyclopedia.   Vol.1, M .: "Soviet Encyclopedia", 1988, s.694, 695].   Thus, atoms in a condensed medium can be regarded as mechanical mikroostsillyatory having a certain mass and electric charge.   When exposed to the condensed medium by an alternating electric, magnetic or electromagnetic field oscillating ions interact with these fields, forming a mechanical oscillating system.  If the natural frequency of the chemical element is a multiple of the frequency of the alternating field acting atom, resonance occurs at harmonics [Physical Encyclopedia.   Volume 4, M .: Scientific Publishers "Great Russian Encyclopedia", 1994, s.308, 309].  The kinetic energy of the resonating atoms increases, thereby increasing the probability of breaking of covalent bonds between hydrogen and oxygen, and the degree of dissociation of water increases.
   Experiments on the effects of alternating electric fields conducted in distilled water.  Of a plurality of natural frequencies of water molecules for resonance oscillations impact frequency used in relation to which the natural frequencies of oscillation of the hydrogen atoms relative to the oxygen atoms and oxygen atoms with respect to the hydrogen atoms are multiple.  By calculation using the method given in the article I.M.Kavitskogo et al. "Mechanism of impact modifiers when structure formation in ductile iron, spheroidal and compacted graphite" [Kavitsky IM, Rushanik BA   and Demidov AA  The mechanism of structure formation impact modifiers in ductile cast iron with nodular and compacted graphite // Ironshaper Russia, 2008. - №10 str.25-29] determined frequency, in relation to which the natural frequency of the hydrogen atoms relative to the oxygen atoms and oxygen atoms with respect to the hydrogen atoms It is a multiple of.   They are respectively hydrogen for 9,735 × 10 11 Hz and an oxygen 6,133 × 10 10 Hz.   Capabilities allow the generator used to operate at a frequency of 0.1 MHz to 3.2 MHz.  From this condition for the experiments on the effects on the water chose two frequency groups: the first group with a deviation from the multiplicity calculation of the oscillation frequency to the actuating frequency of the first significant digit of hydrogen and oxygen to 5%, the second group with a deviation from the multiplicity of more than 5% (see. table).   The frequencies of the first group: 0.106 MHz, 0.315 MHz, 1.64 MHz, 2.5 MHz.   The electricity consumption for the preparation of 1 m 3 of hydrogen when exposed to these low frequencies.
   The frequencies of the second group: 0.5 MHz, 0.7 MHz, 1.3 MHz.   Exposure to these frequencies less effectively.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on June 18, 2018, 08:18:37 AM
green matrix. generator 24 Ghz. how did you do it? the dragon hates me. Can not see there. :)
p.s. Oh, shit,I did not see above. Is that the one?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on June 18, 2018, 12:34:51 PM
The generator works, but creates a lot of harmonics. Need another Gunn diode. Those that are - at higher frequencies. Perhaps this is the reason.
Diodes are ordered from the online store. Will be in a week.
Now I'm thinking about how to use this generator. He is very weak.
It is necessary to invent a microwave input into water without big losses.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on June 18, 2018, 04:38:52 PM
yet they say the Gunn diode oscillator efficiency is small.
Quote
Now I'm thinking about how to use this generator. He is very weak.

place the diode crystal in water? why not, the voltage there is small.fill the resonator with water.
p.s. and if one of the resonators of the magnetron of the appropriate frequency is filled with water?  :)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on June 18, 2018, 04:56:09 PM
https://vimeo.com/262540126 (https://vimeo.com/262540126)
denunciation of Kuznetsov overunity electrolyzers
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Acca on June 20, 2018, 07:50:50 PM
Sergh thanks for the Russian patent link it was very helpful, there is more than way to split water below the 4.2 Kw m3 cu. RF is the way Zografos uses that way. I am suspecting that Ag ionic solution in water is added to water, as I am formulating the ppm of Ag in ppm is needed to make that effect . In the videos of P.Z. he drinks the water as it has to be safe for him to drink. As to metals P.Z. adds to the test tube is there for resonance as one needs a beat frequency as a base to create a oscillations to split water.  Not a standing wave but a "superposition" wave.. P.Z. spectrum display shows that the frequency is in the 250 to 350 GHZ. so it has to be a harmonic of the lower frequency which is indicated by the size of the wave guide .. as to prevent HHO from falling back to a lower energy level one has to maintain that oscillations as shown in the video where P.Z. shuts off the RF and the flame goes out.  I am certain that John Kanzius had the right method, however he was not at the right resonance , 13. Mhz is the industrial set aside frequency that is aviable to most sputtering systems and you may want to be else where say at 200. Mhz like the Coleman patent to generate alpha and beta...  I will post some clips like the method the Herman Anderson has dome spark oscillations.. See his clip as the end is priceless it's there PWM sparks from a motorized automotive distributor that can be controlled by varying speed of the frequency some what Bob Boyce did with the half wave failed six diode bank in his alternator.


Acca.  keep on as Zografos will save Greece from the robber banksters..
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on June 24, 2018, 09:00:07 AM
what is the actual effect of the pressure in the cell on the production of gas?
in the well-known Faraday formula, there is neither temperature nor pressure
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on August 27, 2018, 08:35:17 PM
Where is Sergh ? This is for him.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on October 30, 2018, 09:36:05 AM
The original article mentions THz; the photo show 17-26GHz. Care to explain?
https://youtu.be/NFv3LYeaFSc?t=4088 (https://youtu.be/NFv3LYeaFSc?t=4088In)

In this video, at 1:06:00, we are seeing a Tektronix 494 spectrum analyzer. It can display a signal spectrum up to 325 GHz.             
But...(!) It can do this correctly only with additional external mixers WM490. The mixer consists of a waveguide and a special mixing diode installed in it, which receives the frequency from the heterodyne (local oscillator) in the spectrum analyzer. Without this external mixer, this spectrum analyzer can display signals up to 21 GHz.
https://nscainc.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/TEK_492BP.pdf (https://nscainc.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/TEK_492BP.pdf)

    Tektronix WM490 mixers set:


http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/WM490 (http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/WM490)
A coaxial cable to this mixer must be plugged into the connector at the bottom in the center. But in the Zogrfos video this connector is not connected to anything.

The connector on the bottom right is designed to measure without a external mixer up to 21 GHz.    In this coaxial connector is inserted a crocodile clip (?... :o ), to which a common wire is connected. :-\     This is not good, but with a high sensitivity of the spectrum analyzer it may be enough to estimate the presence of a microwave..

 http://www.thegleam.com/ke5fx/auctions/main_lg.jpg (http://www.thegleam.com/ke5fx/auctions/main_lg.jpg)
What was the real frequency if the Tektronix 494 spectrum analyzer displays ~ 289 - 325 GHz on the screen without mixer? Who has such a device? Please сheck it.
I guess it shows a frequency of about 20 GHz.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on April 09, 2019, 11:15:43 PM
Who has any idea what it is?
http://petrosz.blogspot.com/2017/02/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_Ps1R03WqM
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on April 10, 2019, 11:31:56 AM

Translation of text in Greek, which is printed above the circuits:
Quote
it would be possible to project the non-element of the hydrogen element based on the lack of luster, which characterizes metals. However, we can call the hydrogen as an amorphous gas, as we could call gaseous metal KCO mercury and / or lead and zinc and any metal if and on Earth , what happens to the Sun and other sparkling stars, where the temperature is such that all the bodies are in a gaseous state.
This is about the fact that hydrogen, oddly enough, is a metal:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallic_hydrogen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallic_hydrogen)

I do not know how this fact can help.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 10, 2019, 05:31:55 PM
the clown knows.  :)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 11, 2019, 09:28:51 AM
Well, as we know, each higher harmonic in power is weaker . If we assume that we pump something else with a low frequency. Gigahertz there will be a cat crying. :)
one more, in the pictures of any devices there, we see a very large difference in the absorption of matter at the resonant frequency, compared to other frequencies. In radio engineering, this corresponds to an oscillatory system with high Q-factor. Is not it? Is it possible to use water itself as a resonator, and not to generate microwave energy from the outside and launch (direct) it into water?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on April 11, 2019, 11:31:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrs5_qOeOAQ

This work as transmitting antenna:
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 12, 2019, 10:21:11 AM
What is dimension your replication ?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on April 12, 2019, 10:07:23 PM
The dimensions are approximately the same as in the video from Petros Zografos.
To determine the size I used as sample the white cable that is present in the video. Very roughly.
Transmission lines 16 millimeters, "wings" 22 millimeters by 6 millimeters. The base material is the microwave Teflon 2,5 mm thick. 
Due to the large thickness of dielectric base the line width is increased.I tried to install this antenna near the flange of the waveguide or near the detector diode. The amplitude of the received signal increases significantly.I was planning to solder a Gunn diode in the center hole, but it overheated during soldering.It is a pity that a diode of this size was only one at these frequencies.  I have such diodes for higher frequencies. I will try later with it, it will be soldered with the Rose alloy.
I found interesting Greek article about experiments with underwater communication in the microwave range, from a city called Zografos (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zografou)  :o :
Thomas Κ. Mpountas, DimitraI. Kaklamani
National Technical University of Athens
School of Electrical and Computer Engineering
9 IroonPolytechniouStr., 15780 Zografos, Athens, Greece

https://www.e-fermat.org/files/communication/Alvertos-COMM-2017-Vol20-Mar.-Apr.-018.pdf
 (https://www.e-fermat.org/files/communication/Alvertos-COMM-2017-Vol20-Mar.-Apr.-018.pdf)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on April 13, 2019, 10:11:37 AM
My guess is that at the same time is need a microwave and a low-frequency magnetic field and special conditions, the composition of the liquid. Magnetic and microwave fields are required in the same way as in the NMR tomograph. NMR tomograph has not only a superconducting magnet, but also gradient coils, creating a gradient magnetic field, that forms a 3D image. In addition, a high-frequency field is needed at the resonant frequency of the substance, which absorbs the RF signal only on a narrow gradient of a certain magnetization.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 13, 2019, 03:38:04 PM
Here I am about the same. Why everyone wants to introduce microwave energy from the air. waveguide or coaxial. Inside the water, without leaving the water, what prevents to do this?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on April 13, 2019, 09:38:28 PM
I tried. Don't work. The generator does not start, or works very poorly. Water absorbs energy and the generator does not produce power. Probably needed other  antennas and generators to create HF vibrations directly in the water. But all components are designed to work with RF transmission in air.


See graphic curves in a Greek article about underwater WiFi communication:

https://www.e-fermat.org/files/communication/Alvertos-COMM-2017-Vol20-Mar.-Apr.-018.pdf (https://www.e-fermat.org/files/communication/Alvertos-COMM-2017-Vol20-Mar.-Apr.-018.pdf)
At frequencies of 20 - 24 GHz, everything is absolutely bad.
Microwave hardly penetrates into highly purified deionized water. Must hope only on the surface of the water. By the way, Petros seems so. In the video with a Bow-Tie antenna.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 14, 2019, 04:28:42 PM
Quote
I tried. Don't work. The generator does not start, or works very poorly.
something I do not understand, in this case, what could be wifi under water.?

p.s. https://overunity.com/16440/hho-generation-using-high-frequency-electromagnetic-waves-on-water/dlattach/attach/169242/ (https://overunity.com/16440/hho-generation-using-high-frequency-electromagnetic-waves-on-water/dlattach/attach/169242/)
Has anyone looked at this?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on April 15, 2019, 02:14:04 PM
I read this...
Site 15:0,000000000000001 Watt pro square centimeter, very small
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 16, 2019, 10:13:20 PM
And if you transfer the resonators of the magnetron from the vacuum zone and fill them with water. At least some of them ...
At least the cooling will be perfect.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on April 17, 2019, 01:28:01 PM
Why do you suppose that at resonance the output energy will be increased? This is not a laser or a maser. Irradiated with a frequency of ~62 GHz, receive 1 GHz with a noise level.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 17, 2019, 07:18:53 PM
 Not really. I mean that the microwave energy is inside the resonator, and the coupling loop, waveguides, etc., is an extra loss, an unnecessary part ... :)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on April 17, 2019, 08:34:12 PM
http://globalwave.tv/kushelev/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=49&sid=fbc2da923ef325a6782e6431e7e894ce&start=990 (http://globalwave.tv/kushelev/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=49&sid=fbc2da923ef325a6782e6431e7e894ce&start=990)
New video from Kushelev about dangerous experiment with ruby and sapphire spheres and powerfull military magnetron to get an infinite source of light and energy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=051q3UhLPjg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=051q3UhLPjg)
 ;D

 
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 18, 2019, 08:53:58 PM
funny video. With Kushelev everything is clear, but the guy correctly says that 34GHz is not dangerous?
And the guy’s collection is serious,indeed.  8)  Wesley is resting with his stuff. :)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on April 22, 2019, 09:46:19 AM
It is assumed that only the heating effect is harmful from the microwave. A pulsed magnetron has a high pulse power. These are tens and hundreds of kilowatts. But the pulse duration is very small. The pause between pulses is very large. Therefore, the heating is relatively small.

This video shows how weak the heat from a pulsed  radar microwave:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-czRE9rdHMA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-czRE9rdHMA)
The question remains: what effects can be other than heating?
This is a really hard question. On the Internet, there is little to find. Real scientists deny any non-thermal effects.

The main thing is not to turn to the side of unverified rumors and nonsense about something "Mumbo-Jumbo" from the microwave.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on April 22, 2019, 11:58:51 AM
This is an interesting book about the creation of generators of wery high power electromagnetic pulses, which can really be used as a weapon. The author gives illustrations of various designs of this generators. Free only in Russian.
https://issuu.com/premiaprosvetitel/docs/prishepenko_a._shipenie_snaryadov.a (https://issuu.com/premiaprosvetitel/docs/prishepenko_a._shipenie_snaryadov.a)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 22, 2019, 03:26:17 PM
Yes, a fun book. sorry download fails. Here's another, it has the construction of generators. only i don't have it.
https://www.litres.ru/r-e-tigranyan/voprosy-elektromagnitobiologii-18795030 (https://www.litres.ru/r-e-tigranyan/voprosy-elektromagnitobiologii-18795030) :)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on April 23, 2019, 01:56:37 PM
 :o Look what I found! Very strange patent:

INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE
GE P 20074088 (B) ― 2007-04-10
Inventor(s):     KAPANADZE SHOTA [GE]; APTSIAURI VANO [GE]; KHACHIDZE EMZAR [GE]; KANDINASHVILI NIKOLOZ [GE]

 
Quote
1. Technical Result Reduction of economic expenses, increase of efficiency and reliability of work. 2. Essence The engine contains the cylinder 14, the piston 1, a water tank 4, a cranked shaft 8 which is placed above the chamber of combustion 13, and in the bottom part of the cylinder, up to a level of a plug 5 the condenser 2 connected with the generator of 10 of high frequencies is inserted into poured water 7. 3. Field of Application Mechanical engineering, in particular, propulsion engineering.


https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?II=16&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20070410&CC=GE&NR=P20074088B&KC=B# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?II=16&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20070410&CC=GE&NR=P20074088B&KC=B#)

It's all. There was nothing else.
Patent on this engine?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG35cpshUeA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG35cpshUeA)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GPy8FuJSkc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GPy8FuJSkc)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on April 24, 2019, 12:29:15 PM
 ;D  ;D  ;D I found an unknown patent for a motor on the water!  ;D  ;D  ;D


Kapanadze internal combustion engine on water.

The link to official source:
http://www.sakpatenti.gov.ge/en/search_engine/view/8181/1/ (http://www.sakpatenti.gov.ge/en/search_engine/view/8181/1/)

Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on April 24, 2019, 12:51:11 PM
Now it looks like this:
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on April 24, 2019, 10:22:20 PM
Patent translate with Google, from Georgian to English, written weird..:
Quote
Reduction of economic expenditures, increase of the coefficient of activity and work reliability.
The essence

 The engine consists of a cylinder 14, a piston 1, a water tank 4, a knife lamp 8, which is placed on top of the combustion 13 and in the lower part of the cylinder, there are 7 encapsulated condensers 2 connected to a high frequency generator 10.

Description of the patent

The invention belongs to the internal combustion engines, and can be used in various internal combustion engines, namely, in mobile engines mechanisms, for example, in the production of a car.
   It is known for many internal combustion engines, in which the liquid and gas power carriers are used as different agents.
   It is also known that the internal combustion engine on the gas pump, where hydrogen gas is in high pressure separately in a special airbag and from there it is connected to the carburetor of the intracellular engine.
    The technical outcome of the invention is safety, safety of the internal engine and reduction of the energy cost.
    Technical results are achieved by the fact that the internal engine is performed on the top of the cylinder, and in the cylinder combustion chamber, plate or cylindrical capacitor is placed in the water placed under the candle.
    The hydrogen inner engine is represented by 1 figure and contains: Cylinder 14, piston 1, condenser 2, water retractor 3, water tank 4, sparkle lamp 5, residual gas output 6, candle 5 to water volume 7, 8 knees, knee lights 9 and high frequency generator 10.
    Hydrogen inner engine works as follows: High Frequency Generator 10 delivers approximately 50 MHz frequency density 2 plates of condenser, which are used for dilution as distilled water.
High frequency plates on the condenser leads to the impulsive breakdown of the water
dielectric, causing the breakdown of water impulsively. Hydrogen 11 is excreted, after which the blast is carried out by the candle 5 at the moment when the piston is in the lower margin level. As a result of the explosion hydrogen will turn into a high pressure water steam 12 and the piston 1 is moved to the top position, the excess water vapor is removed from the bulb in the muffin (not shown on the moped figure). The number of hydrogen from water is regulated by high frequency regulator 10.
Thus, in the cylinder combustion chamber 13, under the candle (regulation of water level in the cylinder is not shown due to its simplicity and the overloading of the drawing), plate or cylindrical capacitor in the water in the water, eliminates the availability of airbags and pipes, hydrogen formation and explosion occurs directly in the combustion chamber.
                         The invention
      The internal combustion engine containing a cylinder, a combustion chamber, a candle, a piston, a knee lamp, a high frequency generator, a water tank, is different from that of a knife lined above the combustion chamber and in the lower part of the cylinder, placed in the bottom of a candle, placed in a plate or cylindrical capacitor , Which is associated with high frequency generator.
"approximately 50 MHz frequency density 2 plates of condenser, which are used for dilution as distilled water. High frequency plates on the condenser leads to the impulsive breakdown of the water dielectric, causing the breakdown of water impulsively. Hydrogen 11 is excreted"


I understand that the author describes some real process. But I can't imagine it now. If you just put 50 MHz into the water - I'm sure that nothing will happen.

Electrolysis by alternating current of high frequency? In distilled water? Explosive hydrogen release?
Impossible!
Something other. Not electrolysis. I do not know how yet.

May need more power 50 MHz? Or a special design and material plates "capacitor"?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 25, 2019, 09:58:09 AM
Quote
I understand that the author describes some real process. But I can't imagine it now.
I don't understand it as well.
There is a man who understands. But silent. Wesley
They drank alcohol with him. In Georgia. :)
In general, everyone is silent ... :'(
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on April 25, 2019, 12:34:43 PM
 ;D ah-ah, drank alcohol... ;D in Georgia ... You were in Georgia? For people from the USA:  Georgia, the homeland of Kapanadze, is the exUSSR country in the Caucasus. "Drank alcohol" -  drink homemade grape wine in Georgia the same as drinking tea or coffee. This means nothing. Do not look at Wesley as an enemy who hides a secret. Do yourself what you can.
What you can:
In this patent that I found, there is a link to the patent:
RU2243390 Stashevsky I.I. ( RU2243390 Сташевский И.И )
I read it. Look in the internet about the "Motor Stashevsky" etc...
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 25, 2019, 07:45:34 PM
on his channel in YouTube  Stivep1  there were these videos. Now I don’t know.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on April 25, 2019, 08:19:48 PM
I really don't like such messages. >:(  If he had something to tell, he would have told us that.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 26, 2019, 10:18:56 AM
beyond all doubt.  :)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on April 29, 2019, 11:30:23 AM
Quote
Electrolysis of water can pass to the second mode.  The second mode is the same as the first mode, differs in that the electrodes are connected to an electric generator 88 through the dynamo-electric transducer 89, the electrical pulse generator 90, and electrical switches 91 and 93. In this case, an alternating current is converted into direct current.  Electric pulses generator 90 generates electrical pulses on electrodes 64 or 71 and 72, 74, 76, 77, 79, 80, 82, 83, 86, 87 at the rated voltage of the electric current.     Electrolysis of water can take place in the third mode.  The third mode is the same as the first, differs from it in that the electrodes are connected to the generator 88 through a source of AC dynamoelectric generator 89, and electrical switches 91 and 94. In this case, an alternating electric current is converted into direct current, low voltage current is converted to high current voltage in the tens of thousands of volts.
   Electrolysis of water can be operated in the fourth mode.  The fourth mode is the same as the third mode is different from them in that the electrodes 64 or 71, 72, 74, 76, 77, 80, 82, 83, 86, 87 are connected to an AC generator 88 through the dynamo-electric transducer 89, a generator 90 electric pulses and electric switches 91 and 95. When this electric current is converted into direct current, low voltage current into high voltage current in tens of thousands of volts and high-voltage electrical discharges are created by pulses.
  Using the electrical switches 91, 92, 93, 94, 95 or 64 in the electrodes 71, 72, 74, 76, 77, 79, 80, 82, 83, 86, 87 can change the direction of electric current.  When the cathode becomes the anode, the anode becomes the cathode, it allows to automate the electrodes of plaque purification alkali.   electrolysis of water can be carried out at any time.  The battery 63 between the perforated plate electrodes 64 in the electrolyte electrolysis occurs with or without the use of ultrasonic or infrasonic waves passing in the electrolyte layer from the bottom up.
https://patents.google.com/patent/RU2243390C1/en?oq=RU+2243390+C1
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 29, 2019, 05:55:14 PM
Quote
it allows to automate the electrodes of plaque purification alkali.
where does he have lye(alkali) there? At first it was about clean water.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on May 12, 2019, 02:37:09 PM
read, read the Stashevsky patent. Read, read, first in English, then in Russian. What is it? about what? There is a user on the skiff "Ужос мля нах"  :) . The impression of reading about something like that. maybe I don't understand something ... ;)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on May 12, 2019, 10:25:03 PM
Maybe near to this:
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep39381 (https://www.nature.com/articles/srep39381)
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20140501&CC=WO&NR=2014064692A1&KC=A1# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20140501&CC=WO&NR=2014064692A1&KC=A1#)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on May 13, 2019, 08:20:34 PM
Yes, it's better here.
The fact that the bubbles are small and self-ignite is understandable.
And the current output is more than Faraday?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on May 14, 2019, 11:30:10 AM
It’s too early to think about efficiency. If it is possible to get a little gas on alternating current - this will be a way forward. Usually, only heating occurs on alternating current.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on May 14, 2019, 07:15:06 PM
Quote
Usually, only heating occurs on alternating current.
Эт точно. :)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on May 14, 2019, 11:24:42 PM
Strange videos. Maybe the magnet is oxidized. But why does it oxidize much faster when something is fed through the wires?
I cannot imagine that no high-frequency current is supplied.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yf9p96xu_w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yf9p96xu_w)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgQwr_nUG08 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgQwr_nUG08)

Only if glass is conductive...?

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fauto-minsk.maxbb.ru%2Ftopic455.html (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fauto-minsk.maxbb.ru%2Ftopic455.html)
http://auto-minsk.maxbb.ru/topic455.html (http://auto-minsk.maxbb.ru/topic455.html)
Probably on first video with magnet used conductive glass, as he used for the electrolyzer. Otherwise, at an alternating current, the bubbles did not twist around the magnet.
But why then does the glass not work as a cathode or anode? In this case, on the glass itself should stand out bubbles. Unclear.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on May 15, 2019, 11:53:57 AM
very strange.  :)  We will try it today.  ;)  Just put the wire from the Kacher in a small container with water, nothing happened.
the container was also placed at the top of the coil.
And if it is not a magnet for a piece of radioactive material.  :o What intensity should be radiation so that gas is released?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on May 15, 2019, 07:07:22 PM
There is no gas there. Not with a magnet, not without a magnet. They all lie. :'(
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on May 15, 2019, 10:33:25 PM
This is not lie. Glass is conductive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgOWj5p8WzQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgOWj5p8WzQ)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on May 16, 2019, 11:23:13 AM
Tried yesterday.  :) Hot wire Kacher was lowered into a cup with water on the ground. Glass and plastic. The frequency was about 1 MHz. Then the magnet was wrapped with a wire. There was no bubble. The power was because in half a minute the bottom of the plastic cup had burnt out and the water flowed out.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on May 17, 2019, 09:13:15 AM
You do not have nano-perforated glass. He has such a glass. And he has a direct current. The current goes through the metal of the table.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yf9p96xu_w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yf9p96xu_w)
 "Why magnets?" - uses as nickel-plated electrodes.

Quote
glass electrolyzer separator.
The gas generator separates the hydrogen from the oxygen with very high purity.
The separation of gases occurs physically, using glass perforated membranes, own production. Membrane capable pass an electric current, but they do not pass gases or liquids.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SosvUEmbbgU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SosvUEmbbgU)
Besides that, on this video the pure hydrogen burns like on video from Petros Zographos, with reddish flame. Probably due to particles from electrolyte. Not HHO! Hydrogen without oxygen!

Electrolysis chemical separation of hydrogen and oxygen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLIeAgC9rEE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLIeAgC9rEE)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on May 17, 2019, 10:38:08 AM
and how do they make nanoperforated glass?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on May 24, 2019, 04:45:50 PM
we read "шипение снарядов" , but only about explosive magnetic generators and so on, of a one-time action.
Doesn't that suit us? is not it.
p.s. What is a ion exchange membrane(ионообменная мембрана) in lithium-ion factory batteries?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on May 31, 2019, 08:37:39 AM
read, read the Stashevsky patent. Read, read, first in English, then in Russian. What is it? about what? There is a user on the skiff "Ужос мля нах"  :) . The impression of reading about something like that. maybe I don't understand something ... ;)
I guessed why the Georgian patent for a motor with high-frequency electrolysis inside cylinders refers to the Stashevsky patent.
Patent Stashevsky on electrolysis with a change in the polarity of the electrodes and strong acoustic vibrations in water.

In the cylinders of the internal combustion engine during its working there will also be strong vibrations!

https://overunity.com/16440/hho-generation-using-high-frequency-electromagnetic-waves-on-water/msg533697/#msg533697

 (https://overunity.com/16440/hho-generation-using-high-frequency-electromagnetic-waves-on-water/msg533697/#msg533697)and

https://overunity.com/16440/hho-generation-using-high-frequency-electromagnetic-waves-on-water/msg533818/#msg533818 (https://overunity.com/16440/hho-generation-using-high-frequency-electromagnetic-waves-on-water/msg533818/#msg533818)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on May 31, 2019, 10:24:27 AM
Yes, I would like to believe that it works.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on June 01, 2019, 10:54:06 AM
explain to me from which sources the energy of compressed gas in electrolyzers is taken under pressure. The efficiency of a good electrolyzer is close to one hundred percent. And under pressure, it even rises, as we know. And the energy enclosed in Brown's compressed gas is taken as if from nowhere.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: lancaIV on June 01, 2019, 02:03:53 PM
explain to me from which sources the energy of compressed gas in electrolyzers is taken under pressure. The efficiency of a good electrolyzer is close to one hundred percent. And under pressure, it even rises, as we know. And the energy enclosed in Brown's compressed gas is taken as if from nowhere.

kolbacict, " is close to one hundred percent. ...". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water
Could you give us a reference  to your "good electrolyzer"- producer  ?
Or are for you 80-90% ~ close to 100%. ?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: tinu on June 01, 2019, 03:44:20 PM
explain to me from which sources the energy of compressed gas in electrolyzers is taken under pressure. The efficiency of a good electrolyzer is close to one hundred percent. And under pressure, it even rises, as we know. And the energy enclosed in Brown's compressed gas is taken as if from nowhere.

"If the pressure over the electrolysis is increased then more current passes for the same applied voltage. However, the output of gas per coulomb and the heating effect are both decreased. This is due to the increased solubility of the gases and smaller bubbles  both reducing the cell resistance and increasing recombination reactions" http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/electrolysis.html 
The source of energy is the power supply.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on June 01, 2019, 04:10:12 PM
Quote
High-pressure electrolysis is the electrolysis of water with a compressed hydrogen output around 12–20 MPa (120–200 Bar, 1740–2900 psi).[12] By pressurising the hydrogen in the electrolyser, the need for an external hydrogen compressor is eliminated; the average energy consumption for internal compression is around 3%.
Well, I'm wrong. Let 80-90%
But it was meant that the overvoltage (electrode potential) with increasing pressure to 10-20 bar
decreases. Electricity consumption decreases accordingly. According to my information.
And your wiki says:
Quote
the average energy consumption for internal compression is around 3%
I do not understand. Could it be at 200 bar when there is already an increase in consumption?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on June 01, 2019, 04:37:06 PM
Quote
However, the output of gas per coulomb and the heating effect are both decreased.
Well, maybe you are right. According to my information, with a moderate increase in pressure, consumption in kW / h at least does not increase.
interesting information. thanks.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on July 18, 2019, 09:14:21 AM
Who can provide a link to the detailed description of the Fleischmann – Pons experiment?
Interested in information for the period 1989 - 1992?
What is with ultrasonic in this experiment?
It is similar?:
http://fulviofrisone.com/attachments/article/150/Piezonuclear%20Fusion%20in%20Isotopic%20Hydrogeb%20Molecules.pdf (http://fulviofrisone.com/attachments/article/150/Piezonuclear%20Fusion%20in%20Isotopic%20Hydrogeb%20Molecules.pdf)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on August 29, 2019, 03:23:06 PM
;D ;D ;D I found an unknown patent for a motor on the water!  ;D ;D ;D


Kapanadze internal combustion engine on water.

The link to official source:
http://www.sakpatenti.gov.ge/en/search_engine/view/8181/1/ (http://www.sakpatenti.gov.ge/en/search_engine/view/8181/1/)
Has anyone tried searching on this Georgian website? By other search criteria?
Hmm ... there is still something, close to the Kapanadze motor.  ::)
http://www.sakpatenti.gov.ge/en/search_engine/view/8949/1/ (http://www.sakpatenti.gov.ge/en/search_engine/view/8949/1/)
In the patent describes the process parameters: - the interaction time and pressure.
These parameters are the same as those of a gasoline internal combustion engine!
The basis of the patent is the use of a catalyst - calcium hydroxide for thermal decomposition of water.
This is slaked lime. It may be some kind of especially refined or prepared.
The principle is described logically and probably it can work!Based on the patent, electricity is not needed for the decomposition of water .. :o

Georgian patent refers to a Soviet patent:
https://patents.google.com/patent/SU807584A1/en (https://patents.google.com/patent/SU807584A1/en)

A very rare Soviet journal  is mentioned in the Georgian patent. "Foreign Nuclear Technology" No12, 1976, p. 13-3
I did not find a way to download this journal. According to other articles, it says something about the thermal decomposition of water at nuclear power plants in France (?) at a relatively low temperature.."[/font]Атомная [/font]техника [/font]за рубежом[/font]" [/font]No[/font]12, 1976, [/font]стр. 13-3[/font]
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on September 01, 2019, 10:40:36 AM
Quote
The basis of the patent is the use of a catalyst - calcium hydroxide for thermal decomposition of water.


How could such a reaction look like?
Can your thoughts ...
Nothing comes to mind.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on September 02, 2019, 10:27:40 AM
This is something completely new.  Maybe this is not a chemical reaction, but something else.
Calcium hydroxide does not decompose, only water evaporates from it.
Slaked lime is probably wetted first with water. Physical effect ..?

In the simplest version, from Soviet patent 1984 - SU 807584 A1

1. We take any slaked lime.
2. We warm up at a temperature of 400-500 degrees of Celsius, but  not higher than the HHO ignition temperature (~550C).
3. We collect the all released gases, pass through a cooler
4. Water vapor condenses, remain a very small amount of H2   ( 0,00057 from vapor volume)
I did not find anything in the literature about this.
According to the method described in the Georgian patent, they get 14 times more, i.e. 0,0082, ~ 1%  from water vapor volume.
Not much, but if you repeat this 50 times per second inside the internal combustion engine or pump, you get 50% ... ???
It is unclear whether this quantity of H2 or HHO will be sufficient for rotation of the internal combustion engine or such a turbine:..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGizUoKrfGo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGizUoKrfGo)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=836nd6ZijYY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=836nd6ZijYY)

Translation of the patents:

1. Soviet patent 1979 - 1984  SU 807584 A

2. Georgian patent for an improved method, 2007   GE P 2007 4038 B
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on September 02, 2019, 09:22:12 PM
well, the temperature of the reaction (dissociation) decreases, the yield of hydrogen increases. But the energy balance remains the same. How many calories of heat were spent on dissociation, the same amount we get during combustion HHO.  Or am I wrong?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on September 03, 2019, 09:46:57 AM
But the energy balance remains the same. How many calories of heat were spent on dissociation, the same amount we get during combustion HHO.  Or am I wrong?
From SU807584 patent, about ordinary thermal dissociation of water:
Quote
The disadvantage of this method is the need for overheating of water vapor to 1000- 3000K and a low molar concentration of hydrogen in hot steam. At 1000 degrees Kelvin, the molar  concentration of hydrogen is 2.09*10-6, which leads to insurmountable difficulties in the extraction of hydrogen.
In this case, the energy balance is maintained. If thermal dissociation of water occurred at a temperature of 400 - 500 degrees Celsius and a much larger hydrogen output, the energy balance will not be maintained.
 It is still unclear why thermal dissociation can occur at low temperatures and better than at high temperatures.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on September 04, 2019, 07:39:23 PM
Quote
If thermal dissociation of water occurred at a temperature of 400 - 500 degrees Celsius and a much larger hydrogen output, the energy balance will not be maintained.
I tried to say it on the forum "xumuk.ru " , but I did not convince them.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on April 24, 2020, 09:29:21 AM
it may be relevant to this topic:
https://overunity.com/7679/selfrunning-free-energy-devices-up-to-5-kw-from-tariel-kapanadze/msg545102/#msg545102
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on January 29, 2021, 09:46:08 PM
meta(L?) colloide, nanotechnology is difficult, or? home production of platinum catalyst

 platinum foil, acid, and probably cat litter (maybe I'm not quite right)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjB9JnFRkG4
good German to learn

 application - HHO heating without burning, at best.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN8wCRloJ2c
 
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on February 03, 2021, 07:51:33 PM
If we have water in a container made of barium titanate with one outer lining? :)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on February 03, 2021, 09:26:08 PM
There are probably no specific frequencies. It's not about frequency.

New video of Petros Zografos, recently found on the Internet. 10/19/2020
Must watch this video in full. There is something interesting in the middle of the video.
In small jars, it presents substances, components of "metal" and (or) colloids.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2JHXIfn0Qc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2JHXIfn0Qc)

 Nanotechnology.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanotechnology
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on February 06, 2021, 08:53:18 PM
I asked a question on "xumuk.ru" what the German wanted to say in his video.
There was no answer. Probably no one knows German. :D
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on February 24, 2021, 03:38:24 PM
I wanted to measure the real capacity of the water cell. It was not possible to balance the Wheatstone bridge with only one capacitor. I had to add a resistor.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on February 27, 2021, 10:13:35 AM
Where did the patents and information on thin layer degradation go?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on February 28, 2021, 07:56:35 PM
The second plate in the cell is made of barium titanate? The dielectric constant is orders of magnitude higher than that of water. For alternating current not an obstacle.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on March 17, 2021, 07:56:17 AM
You are talking about the need for thin layers, films.
But there is a double electrical layer near the electrode.
Isn't the entire electric field concentrated there?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Acca on March 18, 2021, 02:08:51 AM
About 2 years ago I studied the Zographos videos and in one video he had a spectrum analyzer the display had shown the the upper end of a 300 Ghz. which was quite a shock to me as I worked on radars on slightly lower frequencies.. In the glass test test tube he had placed a small metal plate. Some of the invited scientist passed around the small metal square plate, they where quite surprised, as the device would not work with out the metal square plate in the test tube.. and some years earlier another RF guy John Kanzius used an RF exciter 13.75 Mhz to split water in between two antennas again in a test tube with a tissue immersed wick and the gas would light the wick with a yellow flame as Zographos did it on Greek TV for hours at a time.  The point is that RF in it's self break's up water bonds, the question is what frequency is the best and what modulation is needed to do that.. Now I have split water with RF at 750 KHhz as using a Russian Tesla coil (katcher) a single transistor RF oscillator with some 10 watts of power and was surprised that it worked as it involved high frequency diodes and a test tube. I will post a video later of that..In closing I am surprised that Zographos is still around with incredible knowledge that he has amassed in his RF field in Cell phones.. SO I have posted here on another thread today about this New Zealand company they also have a cheap way of splitting water and it is 20 times less than the conventional electrolysis RF may be a contender as well as graphene.. This none of these tech(s) will NOT see the light of the day, unless it is opened sourced to the people..

Acca..
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: lota on March 18, 2021, 07:46:57 AM

Hello
Sascha Schmitz produces platinum-plated sand. He wants to build a sand heater with it. See in the 2nd video. The HHo gas ignites when blown into this sand.
Greeting
Lota
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on March 18, 2021, 07:59:00 AM
Why actually kacher?  It gives out high voltage. And water is a conductor. They don't like each other.
How to put high voltage into water?
Probably platinum catalyzes the reaction HHO. similar to the oxidation of ammonia to nitrogen dioxide on a platinum wire.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on March 18, 2021, 03:50:03 PM
Quote
The point is that RF in it's self break's up water bonds, the question is what frequency is the best and what modulation is needed to do that..
Why can't I get anything
for several years ?!
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on March 24, 2021, 06:11:12 AM
I have two simple questions. How can this work? I mean Marx's water generator.
And how to measure the capacitance of a water capacitor?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_capacitor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_capacitor)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: ramset on March 24, 2021, 08:13:14 AM
About 2 years ago I studied the Zographos videos and in one video he had a spectrum analyzer the display had shown the the upper end of a 300 Ghz. which was quite a shock to me as I worked on radars on slightly lower frequencies.. In the glass test test tube he had placed a small metal plate. Some of the invited scientist passed around the small metal square plate, they where quite surprised, as the device would not work with out the metal square plate in the test tube.. and some years earlier another RF guy John Kanzius used an RF exciter 13.75 Mhz to split water in between two antennas again in a test tube with a tissue immersed wick and the gas would light the wick with a yellow flame as Zographos did it on Greek TV for hours at a time.  The point is that RF in it's self break's up water bonds, the question is what frequency is the best and what modulation is needed to do that.. Now I have split water with RF at 750 KHhz as using a Russian Tesla coil (katcher) a single transistor RF oscillator with some 10 watts of power and was surprised that it worked as it involved high frequency diodes and a test tube. I will post a video later of that..In closing I am surprised that Zographos is still around with incredible knowledge that he has amassed in his RF field in Cell phones.. SO I have posted here on another thread today about this New Zealand company they also have a cheap way of splitting water and it is 20 times less than the conventional electrolysis RF may be a contender as well as graphene.. This none of these tech(s) will NOT see the light of the day, unless it is opened sourced to the people..

Acca..


I spoke a few years ago to the man from Greece , I did ask him to drive his motorcycle ( Hho powered)  to one of his country’s 140 emissions inspections place for a print out


He told me speak to his lawyer
—-///—-
As you write above
These hydrogen economy techs need open source (IMO way overdue !!


I have learned a lot from your recent contributions ..


Could use more help to spread the word!!


And what is truly possible






Thank you
 Chet K









Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: sollaris1989 on March 25, 2021, 08:01:56 AM

And how to measure the capacitance of a water capacitor?


Hello buddy.
You can not measure the capacitance of the hho cell aka water capacitor.
water is alive and it is always changing...or as some may say...the water builds up a charge...and changes to a molecular level.

There are some videos on youtube on how to measure it...but nothing very precise....or that everybody can duplicate.

I wish you good luck.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on March 25, 2021, 03:24:17 PM
I do not know what to say...
AFC of a cell with water.
maximum, about 10.5 MHz.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on March 26, 2021, 07:15:32 AM
I see long wires in the photo, ooh..
 If you remove the water, there will be no straight line on the device. Without water, a straight line must be obtained. It is necessary to equalize the impedances. In the water itself, it is also necessary to calculate the electrodes so that the impedance is 50 ohms. It is very difficult. Even if you connect the output of the device to the input, the line on the screen will not be completely straight due to inhomogeneities in the cable and connectors.
Simplified version: shorten the wires from 50-ohm cables to a minimum, down to one millimeter. Decrease the cell length to such a scale. To minimize the overall capacity and inductance of the elements external to the 50-ohm RF cable.

This will allow obtaining relatively correct measurements in the frequency range up to 50 - 100 MHz.

http://www.hp.woodshot.com/ (http://www.hp.woodshot.com/)
free RF design software
AppCAD Version 4.0.0
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on March 26, 2021, 10:12:50 AM
An equivalent was made with a resistance equal to the ohmic resistance cell with water.
And plus in parallel a variable capacitor. The frequency response is completely different.
Quote
Decrease the cell length to such a scale. To minimize the overall capacity
I'll work on it.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on March 26, 2021, 11:58:21 AM
for test purpose take a standard 50 ohm cable with connectors and simply connect the output of this frequency response meter to its input.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on March 26, 2021, 01:00:05 PM
Quote
for test purpose take a standard 50 ohm cable with connectors and simply connect the output of this frequency response meter to its input.
There will be a straight line. :) A straight line will be the same when the cell is short-circuited.
And yet it's all bullshit. Maybe you're right.  Because I took another transformer with a volumetric short-circuited turn. It turns out a completely different picture. It turns out a completely different picture. How, then, do you measure this damn capacity? >:(
On alternating current. On a constant current, according to the charge time, this is obviously impossible to do.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on March 26, 2021, 05:31:23 PM
http://www.hp.woodshot.com/ (http://www.hp.woodshot.com/)
thank you. did not pay attention immediately. it is not clear only why the dielectric constant of seawater is 20 and not 80. and why sea water? we have distilled.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on March 26, 2021, 06:02:20 PM
Household distilled water is most likely to be "natural".

 For a dielectric constant of 80, you need highly purified deionized water, and something else about conditions, temperature, etc. I suppose that is not achievable.

then, do you measure this capacity? >:(
Take very clean distilled water for the cell. Connect a large electrolytic capacitor 4700 uF in series with the cell. Measure the capacitance of this circuit with a conventional multimeter with a capacitance measurement function. So?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_and_parallel_circuits
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on March 26, 2021, 07:47:26 PM
I understood.  :)
What about Marx's water generator?
Nobody has yet explained on different forums how this can work ?!
Are spark gaps in the water ?!  In any case, ones do not operate at that speed.
With such a frequency. the water condenser will self-discharge faster. IMHO.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on March 27, 2021, 07:56:45 AM
I do not find anything unusual here. Capacitors are charged in parallel through resistors, then spark gaps break through, and capacitors are connected in series. The voltages from all capacitors are summed up. Physics at school.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeUn3I0CZE4
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on March 27, 2021, 08:52:34 AM
Quote
Physics at school.
Spark gaps are slow. a capacitor with a water dielectric self-discharges in microseconds.
Что непонятно,то ?

p.s.
Quote
Connect a large electrolytic capacitor 4700 uF in series with the cell. Measure the capacitance of this circuit with a conventional multimeter with a capacitance measurement function.
I made it even more interesting. One plate was removed before the dielectric. The rest is insulated from water, and is additionally filled with varnish.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on March 27, 2021, 08:58:58 AM
Watch the video carefully:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeUn3I0CZE4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeUn3I0CZE4)

Water is used as a conductor. The walls of plastic or glass jars are dielectric. Ordinary "Medieval capacitor".
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on March 27, 2021, 09:16:32 AM
I meant such as in this picture.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on March 27, 2021, 11:49:34 AM
I made it even more interesting. One plate was removed before the dielectric. The rest is insulated from water, and is additionally filled with varnish. Two such semi-condensers were lowered into the water at some distance. AC voltage was applied to the terminals. Two nickel grids were placed between them. A diode was connected between them. The gases started to go. HHO.
There was a real electrolysis!
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 10, 2021, 09:03:09 AM
I'm not getting anything. >:(
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 11, 2021, 08:54:02 PM
Damn it, has anyone observed any resonance phenomena in a water condenser?
Or so that it exhibits the properties of an ordinary capacitor? At least up to 30 MHz.
RF power absorption only. Works like a normal active resistance.
I'm not even talking about getting  OU HHO right now. :)
Just i wanted to see some kind of electrical resonance.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Acca on April 11, 2021, 10:39:49 PM
Try Dr. Stiffler SEC Exciter Hydrogen production via diode, link provided a snap photo at 750Khz rf .. I have done this duplication and it works. will have to find video clips, I am suspecting that this is the basis for Zorgaphos and John Kanzius which worked at 15.75 Mhz...
[/font]
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17xjF9cHDNc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17xjF9cHDNc)
Rf may be the best way to split water... frequency and voltage bias through plates as seen in the Zographos videos..

Acca..
[/font]
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: lancaIV on April 11, 2021, 11:03:52 PM
Hello Acca,
related John Kanzius (R.I.P.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kanzius (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kanzius)


Later in 2007, Kanzius demonstrated that the same 13.56 MHz radio frequency (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_frequency) could be used to dissociate hydrogen and oxygen from a salt water solution, which could then be "burned."[16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kanzius#cite_note-wkyc-09-12-web-16) Rustum Roy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rustum_Roy), a materials scientist at Pennsylvania State University (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_State_University), clarified that the dissociated hydrogen was burning, not the water itself: "The salt water isn't burning per se, despite appearances. The radio frequencies act to weaken the bonds between the elements that make up salt water, releasing the hydrogen.".[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kanzius#cite_note-post-gazette-sep-9-18)
Kanzius' demonstration received coverage from local TV stations.[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kanzius#cite_note-wkyc-sep-12-video-19)


https://patents.google.com/patent/US20090294300A1/en (https://patents.google.com/patent/US20090294300A1/en)              2006-11-13  Priority to US86553006P

[0039]

RF base : https://patents.google.com/patent/US5323329A/en (https://patents.google.com/patent/US5323329A/en)

Dr. Stiffler SEC https://peswiki.com/directory:dr-stifflers-spatial-energy-coherence-sec-exciter-hydrogen-production-via-diodes (https://peswiki.com/directory:dr-stifflers-spatial-energy-coherence-sec-exciter-hydrogen-production-via-diodes) 2010


the circuit is from 2007 : https://overunity.com/3457/selfrunning-cold-electricity-circuit-from-dr-stiffler/ (https://overunity.com/3457/selfrunning-cold-electricity-circuit-from-dr-stiffler/)




http://www.rexresearch.com/zogrifoselectrolysis/zogrifos.html

Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: lancaIV on April 12, 2021, 05:23:19 PM
https://www.ijee.ieefoundation.org/vol3/issue1/IJEE_13_v3n1.pdf


The pulsed power and conventional power inputs were analyzed in the Figure 6. The results show that the pulsed DC electrolysis is more effective and power savings.


 In maximum hydrogen output, power required in pulsed power is 0.57 Watts.


Whereas the conventional DC power required is 18 Watts.


The waveforms of the input power of the electrolytic cell are obtained by the high speed oscilloscope and found that it is the pulsating pulse of 200 nano second with frequency 100 MHz which is depicted in Figure 7.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: lancaIV on April 13, 2021, 12:11:27 PM
http://www.rexresearch.com/zogrifoselectrolysis/zogrifos.html (http://www.rexresearch.com/zogrifoselectrolysis/zogrifos.html)

2016 :

 By using a single generator with a degree of efficiency of 30% with this production we can now produce 1680 kWh of electricity at a cost of metal of around 50 euros that is equal to 50/1680 = 0,03 € / kWh compared to 0,19 € / kWh  currently charged by Hellenic Public Power Company ( PPC)!




https://judbarovski.livejournal.com/ (https://judbarovski.livejournal.com/)


Antenna is jointed with radiators, heated by heat carrier or by any combustible or by solar beams concentrator. The said radiator emits a band of EM waves of about 100 THz interfered each with the others forming envelope band, can be filtered by the said antenna resonators of much less frequencies into electricity with high energy efficiency that can reach near 100% especially after recuperation of exhaust heat.

If using Plank’s Law on-line calculator for blackbody, the Radiant emittance is W = 50.8 kW/m2, and if Band Radiance chosen to be 10 THz around maximum, at 700 Celsius the said efficiency is 92%. and 109 kW/m2, 76% at 900 C. CAPEX is an order of magnitude cheaper than secondary battery






The Zografos system electricity KWh-price is also thermal generator efficiency dependent !


But for a total KWh electricity generation costs there is more than only "cost of metal" and thermal generator to calculate !


All inclusive and by serial industrial production (with all protection) we have to assume in minimum 0,03 Euro/KWh ,by 60% and more thermal generator efficiency !


no profit condition : production costs per unit x 2 = endseller/-consumer price
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 13, 2021, 09:49:59 PM
H2power,
And if I also get hydrogen higher than Faraday from water , what will I get for it? :)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: lancaIV on April 13, 2021, 10:08:27 PM

related #110 :

https://www.ijee.ieefoundation.org/vol3/issue1/IJEE_13_v3n1.pdf


The input power required for the production of 0.58 mL/Sec with conventional DC source is 18 watts. But the application of nano pulsed power supply power required is only 0.58 Watts.

0,58 mL/Sec x 3600 = 2,088 Litre hydrogen per hour



https://www.idealhy.eu/index.php?page=lh2_outline (https://www.idealhy.eu/index.php?page=lh2_outline)
Under ambient conditions, a cubic metre of hydrogen provides some 3 kWh, equivalent to 0.003 kWh per litre.




0.003 KWh per litre = 0,006264 KWh for 2,088 Litre hydrogen


0,006264 KWh =


       6,2464 Wh by       a. conventional electrolysis  :18,00 Wh UNDER-UNITY PROCESS    6,2464/18
                                  b. nano-pulse electrolysis    :  0,57 Wh OVER-UNITY PROCESS      6,2464/0,57



Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Acca on April 13, 2021, 11:29:52 PM
Lanca thanks for the great posts I am still following them ...

Will comment later..

Enclosed is a photo my HV power supply primary 12 Vdc input 1 amp,  out put 3200v Ac at 4500 Khz about 120 watts output. 

This will be a pulsing RF voltage around the 64 plate dry cell..  I am also using "DEF" fluid in the cell as it is 30 % urea

and pure water..   Voltage split for DEF is .37 volts and has 4 hydrogen atoms.. So the Walmart sells DEF for $2.80 a gallon..



(DEF is diesel emission fluid)..   

 


Acca
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: lancaIV on April 14, 2021, 12:51:21 PM
2 points more :


1. related Zografos his concept : similar non-electric hydrolysis f.e. by aluminium/iron


Linnard GRIFFIN Hydrogen Generator


https://www.google.com/search?q=linnard+griffin+hydrogen&rlz=1C1AVFC_enPT930PT930&ei=Ish2YIvhMY2sa9GwoLAI&oq=linnard+griffin+hydrogen&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAw6BwgAEEcQsAM6CAgAEA0QBRAeUM4mWLQ1YIxGaAFwAngAgAF0iAHjBpIBAzYuM5gBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXrIAQjAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwiL-tS6x_3vAhUN1hoKHVEYCIYQ4dUDCA4 (https://www.google.com/search?q=linnard+griffin+hydrogen&rlz=1C1AVFC_enPT930PT930&ei=Ish2YIvhMY2sa9GwoLAI&oq=linnard+griffin+hydrogen&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAw6BwgAEEcQsAM6CAgAEA0QBRAeUM4mWLQ1YIxGaAFwAngAgAF0iAHjBpIBAzYuM5gBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXrIAQjAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwiL-tS6x_3vAhUN1hoKHVEYCIYQ4dUDCA4)

The technology provides apparatus and methods for generating hydrogen without applying electrical energy from an outside source.

https://overunity.com/518/linnards-hydrogen-on-demand-system-without-electricity/msg149330/#msg149330 (https://overunity.com/518/linnards-hydrogen-on-demand-system-without-electricity/msg149330/#msg149330)

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=&IN=linnard+griffin&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=&IN=linnard+griffin&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search)









2.
http://www.dotyenergy.com/ (http://www.dotyenergy.com/)
http://www.dotyenergy.com/References/References.htm (http://www.dotyenergy.com/References/References.htm)


energetic (and financial) budget calculation with under-/over-unity electrolyzer !?



https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.windbranche.de/news/nachrichten/artikel-36876-schwimmender-offshore-windpark-vor-portugal-in-betrieb (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.windbranche.de/news/nachrichten/artikel-36876-schwimmender-offshore-windpark-vor-portugal-in-betrieb)

to later
swimming windfarms ,ship-like(ponton)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: ramset on April 14, 2021, 07:08:56 PM
Acca
Urea
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea)


In great abundance globally


Would be remarkable to turn waste into fuel/good use?

And of course this aura or plasma is on “must do” list for build topic here!
Thank you


Chet
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 19, 2021, 01:36:15 PM
my water absorbs, no, it just devours RF power.  At the same time it heats up.

Here we used to talk about thin water films. There were even patents on this topic.
And if you use a water-oil emulsion in the cell? At least it will be non-conductive.
And it will be possible to create a high voltage on the electrodes.
And also, possibly, a high potential difference will be applied to a micro-drop of water in an oil emulsion. What we need. What do you think about this?
Has anyone tried this?

 
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: NdaClouDzzz on April 19, 2021, 01:41:42 PM
You're making it more complicated that it has to be.
In a WFC the water is a dielectric. Just like any electrolytic cap, a WFC can suffer dielectric breakdown!

                                                                     What is a dielectric breakdown?

"Avalanche breakdown within solids and liquid dielectrics is accompanied by chemical and physical changes that release gaseous byproducts. Pressure from the entrapped gas can contribute to further mechanical fracturing and electrical failure of surrounding solid dielectric material, and further weakening of dielectric strength in liquid dielectrics. In solids, dielectric breakdown causes irreversible damage, weakening it to the point where the dielectric can no longer perform its insulating function. In liquids, if power is quickly removed, the dielectric typically recovers most, or all, of its original dielectric breakdown strength and the associated equipment does not need to be taken out of service. Gases recover their original dielectric strength once power is removed and hot gases (from the previous breakdown spark or arc) have cooled down".
https://qr.ae/pGIFQh (https://qr.ae/pGIFQh)
https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-dielectric-breakdown?share=1 (https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-dielectric-breakdown?share=1)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 19, 2021, 02:37:26 PM
Quote
You're making it more complicated that it has to be.
In a WFC the water is a dielectric.
But I can't do it. Perhaps H2power can do it. But I haven't yet.
Only if I use "dielectric electrodes".
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: NdaClouDzzz on April 19, 2021, 03:17:52 PM
Practice overvolting some small (very small!) electrolytic caps.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: stivep on April 19, 2021, 05:17:12 PM
There are two machines made from Petros Zografos.

One generates huge amounts of HHO and the other generates directly electricity.
The main principle of both machines is the same and they do not work with any kind of electrolysis.

The production of the HHO is done by bombarding water with high frequency electromagnetic waves in a scale of THz ( the exact frequency is kept secret).

The patent and schematics are here:
http://www.hellagen.gr/search/label/ (http://www.hellagen.gr/search/label/)ΠΑΤΕΝΤΑ

site dedicated to the invention: http://www.hellagen.gr (http://www.hellagen.gr)



 The original link to the patent doesn't show any results.
 Does anyone know where  to find  original patent in English.
Wesley
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: lancaIV on April 19, 2021, 05:46:06 PM

ZOGRAFOS PETROS EVANGELOU
publicated  2013-02-13


https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20130213&CC=GR&NR=1007830B&KC=B
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: stivep on April 19, 2021, 07:48:32 PM
thank you for the link.
_____________________________
some additional information:
The main cause of sound attenuation in fresh water, and at high frequency in sea water (above 100 kHz) is viscosity.
Important additional contributions at lower frequency in seawater are associated with the ionic relaxation of boric acid (up to c. 10 kHz) and magnesium sulfate (c. 10 kHz-100 kHz).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_acoustics#:~:text= (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_acoustics#:~:text=)


That means  attenuation is a force and process that uses released energy to provide desired effect.
At different  frequency the effect will be characteristic to  already known phenomena . And that is why inventor keeps  frequency in secret.

__________________________________
Terahertz waves from electrons oscillating in liquid water:
Quote
Ionization of water molecules by light generates free electrons in liquid water.
so all you need is just light, or concentrated light by Fresnel lens

Quote
It displays a frequency between 0.2 and 1.5 THz, depending on the electron concentration in the liquid. The emitted THz waves originate from oscillations of the solvated electrons and their water ...
https://www.bing.com/search?q=THz+frequency++and++water&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=thz+frequency+and+water&sc=1-23&sk=&cvid=2ACDDA7BE2404C289263B35A1BC3697E (https://www.bing.com/search?q=THz+frequency++and++water&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=thz+frequency+and+water&sc=1-23&sk=&cvid=2ACDDA7BE2404C289263B35A1BC3697E)


Hit a thin layer of water with the right frequency of a laser and it can emit terahertz radiation; this is useful for several purposes, such as viewing your insides safely (x-rays are dangerous, so exposure must be strictly limited; terahertz rays are safe).
https://www.bing.com/search?q=THz+frequency++and++water&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=thz+frequency+and+water&sc=1-23&sk=&cvid=2ACDDA7BE2404C289263B35A1BC3697E

 (https://www.bing.com/search?q=THz+frequency++and++water&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=thz+frequency+and+water&sc=1-23&sk=&cvid=2ACDDA7BE2404C289263B35A1BC3697E)REMEMBER:
NOT  ALL "LIGHT" IS VISIBLE.  means not all photons are noted but they are there.
After you resonate  in THz antenna ray  and rectify  these electromagnetical oscillation you have DC  energy  ready to use
simple electrical energy for free.  - FE
Unfortunately  to some of you :
You can't patent it as it is here said  by me.

By law - invention must not be published by anyone prior to filing .
So if you do that, than I will get you "by the balls"

Wesley
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: stivep on April 19, 2021, 08:19:25 PM
tools to apply for  investigation of this  kind of FE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terahertz_time-domain_spectroscopy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terahertz_time-domain_spectroscopy)
it can also  be done for 10- 50 dollars of investment


Light Unit Conversion Table  - These are general conversion factors.
Unit of measure :
Footcandles
LUX
umol.m.2s1 of PAR
moles/day (PAR)
Watts/m.2 (total energy)
________________________________________________
WM.2:
Watts per square meter (WM.2). A unit of measure of the amount of light energy hitting a surface that is in the range of 400-800 nanometers.
some other forms of measurement :
https://www.stouchlighting.com/blog/electricity-and-energy-terms-in-led-lighting-j-kw-kwh-lm/w (https://www.stouchlighting.com/blog/electricity-and-energy-terms-in-led-lighting-j-kw-kwh-lm/w)
_______________________________
But that is just measurement of light intensity and energy ...
We are interested in how much energy is  converted to  EM wave and than to electricity and that gives you your FE.
Wesley
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: stivep on April 20, 2021, 12:58:49 AM
There is number of articles that  may discourage  experimenter:
The one below will tell you that  it is impossible to  gain from  it due to nature of THz band.
https://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/military/the-truth-about-terahertz (https://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/military/the-truth-about-terahertz)
____________________________________
Confusion of the public is caused by this article broad assumption,
that behavior of EM wave can be  looked at all frequencies starting from 1THz and up as unified.
Instead of it experimenter should look at properties of particular EM frequency .
The higher we  go the bigger  is energy of  every single period measured in eV, keV, MeV, GeV.
Article of Carter M. Armstrong vice president of engineering in the electron devices division of L-3 Communications (http://www2.l-3com.com/edd/index.htm), from Aug17 of  2012 | 19:39 GMT 
doesn't mention anything about light  shooting at water and creating EM wave.
_____________________________________
Quote
So to get a 1-W signal, you might need to start with kilowatts of input power, or greater.
Wesley's  explanation:
Never more wrong statement could be said by a scientist.
Article suffers with totall lack  of  explanation of :
-
THz antennas
-
wave behavior in Near and Far field.
-wave behavior in the interface.
-analysis of photon from sun heating your body  so you feel warm due to its energy conversion to  heat.
 
EXAMPLE:

heating of 1 liter of water  for 1degree of Celsius  requires:
Answer:
1 watt is = 24 calorie per second.
It takes 1000 calories to raise 1 liter of water one degree C.
So apply about 4000 watts for one second to do this.
EASY ENOUGH?
Can your body at 35 degree day , be  heated  for 1C up in 1 second?
https://www.quora.com/How-many-watts-are-required-to-raise-one-liter-of-water-by-one-degree-centigrade?top_ans=147118752

 (https://www.quora.com/How-many-watts-are-required-to-raise-one-liter-of-water-by-one-degree-centigrade?top_ans=147118752)
How about if :
- you get 4kW/h of energy from that conversion?
  Your typical  household uses  ~ 6kW per day.


You don't need to build a source, but  use spectral purity  you need by applying filters and polarization to the source , and your source is for free.
A simple piece of ferrite with its metal particles at right size to resonate with 1/4 or  half wavelength may act  as an excellent antenna
These particles are already isolated by bounding  compound  in the process of creation of that ferrite.
Cheap plastic strip 1m long made for refrigerator magnets before magnetization can be used .
The stack of many of them creates multilevel of stack antennas for array.
_________________________________________

There are two forms of conversion of sun energy that may interest  us.
1.  heat energy per cubic m of heated water where  max  depth is ~5cm.
2. energy of THz wave triggered  by  light and than converted to electricity
We would be interested  in  that energy density  from the distance  compatible to near field of that frequency  in the water or  just right above  it, using  High Gain antenna ray .
However in near field this antenna ray may act  like a transformer due to electromagnetic coupling of energy but definitely wouldn't look like transformer.
Example:
At 4mm frequency - a quarter wave antenna will have  active quarter wave element = 1mm.
that is still possible to be build at home with 26 gauge,  having  cheap Chinese microscope glass that costs $50


 Wesley
 
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: stivep on April 20, 2021, 02:50:31 AM
Coming back to original patent  allowing Electrolysis of water and decomposition  of  water into oxygen and hydrogen gas.
If it was patented  by inventor ( I didn't check  patent status) than mechanisms mentioned by me earlier applies.

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20130213&CC=GR&NR=1007830B&KC=B#
Inventor(s):  ZOGRAFOS PETROS EVANGELOU [GR]; SPILIOPOULOS IOANNIS DIMITRIOU [GR]  +
 (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20130213&CC=GR&NR=1007830B&KC=B#) Applicant(s):  ZOGRAFOS PETROS EVANGELOU [GR]; SPILIOPOULOS IOANNIS DIMITRIOU [GR] 
Classification:  international: B01J19/12 (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20130213&CC=GR&NR=1007830B&KC=B#); B01J7/02 (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20130213&CC=GR&NR=1007830B&KC=B#); C01B3/04 (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20130213&CC=GR&NR=1007830B&KC=B#); C25B1/04 (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20130213&CC=GR&NR=1007830B&KC=B#) 
cooperative:  B01J19/129 (GR) (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/classification?locale=en_EP#!/CPC=B01J19/129); B01J7/02 (GR) (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/classification?locale=en_EP#!/CPC=B01J7/02); C01B3/042 (GR) (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/classification?locale=en_EP#!/CPC=C01B3/042); C25B1/04 (GR) (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/classification?locale=en_EP#!/CPC=C25B1/04); Y02E60/36 (EP) (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/classification?locale=en_EP#!/CPC=Y02E60/36)
Application number: GR20120100234 20120430 
Priority number(s):  GR20120100234 20120430
Body of the patent application:

Quote
Novelty: There are disclosed a method and a device destined for water electrolysis and production of hydrogen to be used
as combustible by combination of high frequencies produced by semitonic oscillators; when mixed, reinforced and combined,
said frequencies contrive to break water into its elements (hydrogen and oxygen) upon influence of the coordination effect.
Secondary frequencies configurating the structure of the primary frequencies for obtaining adequately-combined frequencies
by means of the respective electronic circuit composed of an isolator, a mixer, a directional coupler, a multiplier, configurators,
digital frequency controllers, and linear amplifiers can be introduced with the assistance of adequate main and auxiliary treatment
equipment into the primary frequencies produced by the semitonic oscillators.
The vibration of water molecules and the breaking thereof into hydrogen and oxygen are obtained by suitably-coordinated frequencies.
The gases are, thereafter, separated by special sorting guides while the produced hydrogen is conducted through the respective
specific connection to the energy generation mechanism for being used as fuel.



Due to the presence of gas and water molecules in the atmosphere, electromagnetic wave travels more slowly,
and part of its energy is scattered or absorbed.
Some molecules present in a standard atmosphere are excited by the specific frequencies in the THz band.
An excited molecule internally vibrates, and as a result of this vibration, part of the energy of the propagating wave
is converted into kinetic energy and is simply lost.
and yes we are  interested  in this energy conversion.



Wesley
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: stivep on April 20, 2021, 03:03:11 AM
here is  block schematic diagram:
-signal from filter 1 goes to  buffer2  (  capacitor)
-than is amplified by driver amplifier 3 ,
-than goes to mixer  with PLL loops 7 and 7' controlling  local    oscillators 5 and 5" whose frequency is modulated by modulators 6 and 6"
- after that frequency is changed x 26 and 
-than  is delivered to  the filter  10 like in regular heterodyne radio
-than we have directional coupler 
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_dividers_and_directional_couplers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_dividers_and_directional_couplers)
  interesting is that this coupler has 2 ports  where each one  goes
  to  amplifiers   12A and 12B
  It is  one way transmission only

- than  we have  two amplifiers  12A and 12B  delivering signal  at 180  degrees phase difference  to   the two  opposite antenna electrodes inside the HHO chamber
 that signal is canceling itself inside of the chamber fluid.
 
The easiest way to understand it is  is to picture yourself  the cylindrical pipes one inside the other  where every second one is connected to  amplifier 12A
and every first one is connected to  amplifier 12B
Each of cylinders  must be  in resonance  with delivered  frequency and act  like load with the fluid inside.
So if  first  cylinder  of amplifier 12 is  inside  having small diameter fi  and being the tallest
than third  cylinder  of amplifier 12 is  having  much larger diameter fi  but  is smaller .
the   fifth   cylinder  of amplifier 12 is  having  much, much  larger diameter fi  but  is smaller than  first and  second
For me this is classical Stanley Meyer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Meyer%27s_water_fuel_cell


Unfortunately I don't speak  Greek Language  to tell you more.
But THz frequency is unlikely used there.

Wesley
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 20, 2021, 10:34:22 AM
you would take and replica this device. You have more opportunities for this.
Unlike us.
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Acca on April 21, 2021, 04:31:55 AM
Wesley much gratitude for your efforts in these posts, it had to hours to compose these..

Acca..
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 21, 2021, 10:48:42 AM
Can our respected Wesley be able to answer how this works?  I really don't understand.
He knows everything, explained my most tricky questions.  :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_capacitor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_capacitor)
Quote
the ratio of conductivity to permittivity means that self discharge time is circa 180μs,
The spark gap cannot operate at this speed (frequency).
Or this drawing, someone's joke?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: lancaIV on April 21, 2021, 03:03:02 PM
" .... self discharge ...." : related (search machine) sonolumniscence
#123: to somebody " his balls" a published THz- spectrum heater/cooler by Dr.Helmut Reichelt et al. as " (no) power stick",date : 1982 ,so new ,only +- 40 years young !  ::)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: stivep on April 21, 2021, 08:37:28 PM
Can our respected Wesley be able to answer how this works?  I really don't understand.
He knows everything, explained my most tricky questions.  :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_capacitor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_capacitor)The spark gap cannot operate at this speed (frequency).
Or this drawing, someone's joke?

Wikipedia:
Quote
(for totally pure water, only thermally ionized, at 25 °C (77 °F) the ratio of conductivity to permittivity means that self discharge time is circa 180μs,
faster with higher temperatures or dissolved impurities)
usually cannot be made to store enough residual electrical energy to cause serious bodily injury.

Our modern world  still at some point uses  lies.
The reason  we think about some  Russians as lair's is  that the sophistication of these lies 
is likely not at the level  or in  the brackets of our Western World average perception "bandwidth."

By that:
Wikipedia is not Russian  and can't  lie, Wikipedia can only be incorrect  but not  for long,.


Yes 
no generator can operate  in the water  or based on  water  capacitors  and High Frequency

Quote
If the current flowing in the capacitor exceeds the thermal rating of the pathway for a time period of
sufficient duration such that the temperature rise causes a catastrophic failure of the insulation, then the cap blows.
https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-calculate-the-max-frequency-a-capacitor-could-withstand-before-it-blows (https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-calculate-the-max-frequency-a-capacitor-could-withstand-before-it-blows)
So it is thermal withstanding factor at W/area in mm that  makes it fail and the higher temperature the  higher is heat/per mm to the 3dth .( cubic)
Quote
water capacitors do not require oil. (in many older designs of capacitors it can be toxic)
 
Quote
Capacitance can be increased by the addition of electrolytes and minerals to the water, but this increases
the self leakage, and cannot be done beyond its saturation point.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_capacitor#cite_note-6)


Quote
Water has been shown not to be a very reliable substance to store electric charge long term, so more reliable materials are used
for capacitors in industrial applications.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_capacitor#cite_note-3)
 However water has the advantage of being self healing after a breakdown, and if the water is steadily circulated through
a de-ionizing resin and filters, then the loss resistance and dielectric behavior can be stabilized.
Thus, in certain unusual situations, such as the generation of extremely high voltage but very short pulses,
 a water capacitor may be a practical solution – such as in an experimental Xray pulser.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_capacitor#cite_note-4)
_________________________________

Phenomena mentioned by me  in THz range are related not to a charge but to a electromagnetic wave that needs
to be  received and than rectified  to become FE energy used by  us.
And that is what I was talking about  in my few post  above  starting from interaction of  Light  of the sun and  response of water
in THz range.


Wesley
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: stivep on April 21, 2021, 08:54:25 PM
 That is why in known load and known voltage the dielectric breakdown  of  a material can be calculated and no water is needed.
  like here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnwhVggZuh8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnwhVggZuh8)
5C30.50 - Marx Generator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fvpEb2QO8s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fvpEb2QO8s)
New Marx Generator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep3D_LC2UzU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep3D_LC2UzU)
Cockcroft-Walton Multiplier

Wesley
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 22, 2021, 08:11:55 AM
Well, I know how the Marx generator works. The question was not about that.
The question was, how can this work in water?!
The speed of operation of spark gaps should be an order of magnitude higher than the self-discharge time of the water capacitor.

p.s.    sorry, didn’t notice it.
https://overunity.com/16440/hho-generation-using-high-frequency-electromagnetic-waves-on-water/msg556971/#msg556971
But even if it is used on rare occasions,
Quote
However water has the advantage of being self healing after a breakdown, and if the water is steadily circulated through
a de-ionizing resin and filters, then the loss resistance and dielectric behavior can be stabilized.
Thus, in certain unusual situations, such as the generation of extremely high voltage but very short pulses,
 a water capacitor may be a practical solution – such as in an experimental Xray pulser.[4]
How do spark gaps manage to operate before water self-discharge?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: stivep on April 22, 2021, 02:48:40 PM
 Here  you have two structures compared :
 The one on he left is build based on water capacitors and one on the right is based on tantalum capacitors .

1:
wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_capacitor#/media/File:Coaxial_Marx_generator.png (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_capacitor#/media/File:Coaxial_Marx_generator.png)

2. Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_goG3ACobCE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_goG3ACobCE)

Wesley
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: stivep on April 22, 2021, 03:19:24 PM
here you  have comparison of spark gap electrodes between the two.
links listed in  the post  above
Wesley
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: stivep on April 22, 2021, 04:08:29 PM
This is  the correction to the post  from above ( the second picture ) in post :
https://overunity.com/16440/hho-generation-using-high-frequency-electromagnetic-waves-on-water/msg556986/#msg556986

 it shows more accurately   resistors.
 The two resistors from the right  should be  looked at  as one single resistor
Wesley
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: stivep on April 22, 2021, 04:30:55 PM
typical  assembly   in form of schematic is here.
However there is significant difference between  the purely resistive  resistors and  use of  water capacitors c with resistors .
in water  capacitors assembly  resistors are inductive in nature
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx_generator


 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx_generator)
Wesley
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: stivep on April 22, 2021, 04:41:15 PM
 Here is more about water based  capacitors :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx_generator (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx_generator)
 I  pointed  at similarities   between the  two  builds of marx  generator and

Explanation:
I pointed at spark gap.
The unfortunate   was that  when comparing the two structures I was in need to  point  at  similarities  making by that more confusion than  benefit to the reader.

 -And that is  obvious when we look at spark gap by itself.
 when looking at my previous pictures you see points marking spark gap electrodes and red circles  around it.
 but actual accurate  explanation  for water based capacitors is in picture  below


Proper performance depends upon  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx_generator)capacitor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor) selection and the timing of the discharge.
Switching times can be improved by doping of the electrodes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrode) with radioactive (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive) isotopes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes)  caesium (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesium) 137 or nickel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel) 63,
and by orienting the spark gaps so that ultraviolet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet)
light from a firing spark gap switch illuminates the remaining open spark gaps.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx_generator#cite_note-3)
Insulation of the high voltages produced is often accomplished by immersing the Marx generator
in transformer oil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer_oil) or a high pressure dielectric gas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_gas) such as sulfur hexafluoride (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SF6) (SF6).
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: stivep on April 22, 2021, 06:48:10 PM
..
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: stivep on April 22, 2021, 06:52:36 PM
 here I point at water capacitors
Wesley
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: stivep on April 22, 2021, 06:55:13 PM
 Here I point at solid metal structure
Wesley
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: stivep on April 22, 2021, 06:59:31 PM
 Here I point at  water resistor  at another video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDfZFSay_1A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDfZFSay_1A)
Lightning Generator Made Of Water (DIY Marx Generator)
Wesley
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: stivep on April 22, 2021, 07:57:37 PM
Salt water based  capacitors uses  plastic as dielectric an salt water as a conductor
Wesley
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 22, 2021, 08:39:25 PM
Quote
Switching times can be improved by doping of the electrodes with radioactive isotopes caesium 137 or nickel 63,
and by orienting the spark gaps so that ultraviolet
light from a firing spark gap switch illuminates the remaining open spark gaps.[3]
understandably. that's better.  :)
Only i still take doubts whether the upper water capacitor be able  charged through a chain of resistors with a resistance of tens of megohms.
But an amazing idea came to me, how to give up  resistors for charging . :) ;)
I will draw, I will show ...
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: stivep on April 22, 2021, 09:50:20 PM
 
Quote
You may be thinking that water is a good conductor of electricity but remember that only
water with ions present conducts electricity. 
Deionized water (water with all ions removed) is actually a poor conductor of electricity. 
The dielectric constant of pure water at 20 degress C is 80.1.
https://www.enotes.com/homework-help/what-dielectric-constant-water-375624#:~:text=You%20may%20be%20thinking%20that%20water%20is%20a,pure%20water%20at%2020%20degress%20C%20is%2080.1 (https://www.enotes.com/homework-help/what-dielectric-constant-water-375624#:~:text=You%20may%20be%20thinking%20that%20water%20is%20a,pure%20water%20at%2020%20degress%20C%20is%2080.1).
so we have two factors :
1. temperature
2. deionization
_____________________
But we also have the third one :
- impurities in the water.
so water needs to  be distilled .
_______________________________________
What is the dielectric constant of water?
Quote
A dielectric is a material that will polarize itself when subjected to an external electric field.  The dielectric material itself is not a true conductor of electricity.  But the partial positive...

__________________________________________________

https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/jres/56/jresv56n1p1_A1b.pdf (https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/jres/56/jresv56n1p1_A1b.pdf)
Quote
capacitance-conductance bridge, operated at frequencies below 100 kilocycles per second, was used to measure:

-the dielectric constant of water with an accuracy of better than 0.1 percent at 5-degree intervals over the range .0° to 100° C.
At 25° C the dielectric constant was found to have the value 78.30,
which is about 0.3 percent lower than t hat usually accepted.

The data fit the equation E= 87. 740 - 0.400081+ 9.398(10- 4)tL 1.410(10- 6)13, with a maximum deviation of 0.01 unit in dielectric constant.
The experimental method and sources of error are considered in some detail.

Wesley
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: stivep on April 22, 2021, 10:12:57 PM

So how good is water as dielectric is one question?
the other question is : how good is water as isolator.
as  some of you dont  always  see the difference  between the two.
===============================================


For more practical approach we need to look at  EDM  machine.

 it does  "miracles"  to the  conductive materials .
 but this is just easy way to  play with almost the same schematic  when playing  with HHO
 the article explaining it is here :
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/deionized-water (https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/deionized-water)





__________________________________________
the practical use  of the  EDM  go here:
https://youtu.be/4iB7kkCy1xM?t=141 (https://youtu.be/4iB7kkCy1xM?t=141)
some of the wire  EDM could be  acquired  in  USA for $100 in working condition.
I had one in my  mechanical part of the lab.
https://youtu.be/DNxob3yY4LE?t=25 (https://youtu.be/DNxob3yY4LE?t=25)







https://youtu.be/2dsrLD52Mv0?t=885 (https://youtu.be/2dsrLD52Mv0?t=885)
just don't believe in this video to the statement that  precision machining with EDM costs  as much as a house in USA.
THIS IS NOT TRUE.

SO WHY HE IS SAYING IT?
BECAUSE HE  IS LIKELY NOT AN AMERICAN


There is  the difference between  a British experimenter as  well as EU
and us the AMERICANS  - we are over-saturated with everything and sometime it is a need  just to take it...
Yes... some guys wants you to take  it for  free..


In some  very much democratic countries making scrap  from tools, measurement equipment and  and machines  is impossible, 
if there is  any, means anyone willing to buy it for more than 0 dollars.
But in some countries   having 'per capita"  at level of "third world countries "   in  Eastern part of Еurope  it is quite different story .

And Russians?..................
Russians  unfortunately can dream about   earning  additional 25 dollars more   
per month in addition to their monthly  175 dollars average salary in regions.

African Uganda is $280/mo
Papua New Guinea  average is $195/ mo
https://youtu.be/Rq8SA3AB06k?t=130 (https://youtu.be/Rq8SA3AB06k?t=130)
Here is some  Papula technology to enlarge  human male  reproduction organs.
I hope some  Russians can learn  something  from that as it is inexpensive and easily accessible .
There is still in average  1 per every 10 000 Russians who speaks  at least some English there  but,
I can help  with translation if needed.
I'm not   professional in this area but it is interesting  how it works from science based  stand point.

Wesley
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: stivep on April 23, 2021, 10:10:54 PM
understandably. that's better.
But an amazing idea came to me,
The schematic posted by you will likely  not work.
The same core is sharing  windings from each stage including  the first  coupling with generator.
It will  blow  in no time. ( "no time " -is an idiom)
Can you correct me if I didn't understand something?
Wesley
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on April 24, 2021, 09:49:03 AM
Quote
https://overunity.com/16440/hho-generation-using-high-frequency-electromagnetic-waves-on-water/dlattach/attach/181267/
Really awesome. :)
Quote
The same core is sharing  windings from each stage including  the first  coupling with generator.
Well, the windings are separated by very good insulation.
Similar to how it is done in split transformers from TV.
p.s. May I ask again why everyone thinks Stanley Meer is dead?

p.p.s. Here's more on the topic of Marx's water condensers.
http://elib.biblioatom.ru/text/ucheny-mechtatel-borets_2006/go,325/ (http://elib.biblioatom.ru/text/ucheny-mechtatel-borets_2006/go,325/)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on June 04, 2021, 08:51:15 AM
The decomposition of water or carbon dioxide are similar processes.
https://wp.icmm.csic.es/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2015/06/JPCL2010.pdf
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on June 04, 2021, 09:57:03 AM
40 nanometer slit ...
Interestingly, the released carbon will be   closed that small gap.short circuit.
water enthalpy 285 vs 394 CO2
Let H2S dissociate first ...
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on June 04, 2021, 12:43:34 PM
Another possibility is to recover from CO2 to CO (carbon monoxide). It is also combustible, like hydrogen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQgrMtAydIU
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: lancaIV on June 04, 2021, 01:12:16 PM
Interestant,really interestant :


https://wp.icmm.csic.es/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2015/06/JPCL2010.pdf (https://wp.icmm.csic.es/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2015/06/JPCL2010.pdf)


by ORMES elementar state https://www.samueljones.org/en/ormus_patent.html (https://www.samueljones.org/en/ormus_patent.html)   detection process view

f.e.
Subsequent annealing produces the G-ORME


 The G-ORME has an electron rearrangement whereby it acquires a d orbital hole or holes which share energy with an electron or electrons.This pairing occurs under the influence of a magnetic field external to the field of the electrons.


G-ORM Es are stable and possess strong interatomic repulsive magnetic forces, relative to their attractive forces


G-ORME stability is demonstrated by unique thermal and chemical properties


The white saltlike material that is formed from G-ORM Es after treatment with halogens, and the white oxide appearing material formed when G-ORM Es are treated with fuming HC 104 or fuming H 2504 are dissimilar from the T-metal or its salts


The G-ORME will not react with cyanide, will not be dissolved by aqua regia, and will not wet or amalgamate with mercury It also does not sinter at 800 'C under reducing conditions, and remains an amorphous powder at 12004 C


( not reacting like "normal" gold washing process or "Koenigswasser= Salzsaeure" vulnerable )


These characteristics are contrary to what is observed for metallic gold and/or gold cluster salts


G-ORM Es require a more negative potential than -2 45 V to be reduced, a potential that cannot be achieved with ordinarily known aqueous chemistry.


The strong interatomic repulsive forces are demonstrated in that the G-ORM Es remain as a powder at 1200 'C.
"normal" gold melt-point : 1064° C


This phenomenon results from cancelling of the normal at- tractive forces arising from the net interaction between the shielded, paired electrons and the unshielded, unpaired s and d valence electrons

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valence_electron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valence_electron)

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19980305&CC=DE&NR=19637710A1&KC=A1 (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19980305&CC=DE&NR=19637710A1&KC=A1)

 G-ORM Es have no unpaired valence electrons and, therefore, tend not to aggregate as would clusters of gold which have one or more unpaired valence electrons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_metal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_metal) detector/mining ?!

                                           
                                                       elektret                    chemtret

                                                  "normal"/( f.e. G-) ORM(es)  spectrometer profile ?

He sended the probes to U.S.S.R,today F.R.R. or RF for Russian Federation !


( My assumption,could also be Ucraine/Kiev or other Ex-U.S.S.R. estates . By research interest: who received the probes and studied by which scopic process and scale ?)






https://www.newsweek.com/scientists-melt-gold-room-temperature-1226339#:~:text=Most%20metals%20have%20very%20high,melt%20gold%20at%20room%20temperature (https://www.newsweek.com/scientists-melt-gold-room-temperature-1226339#:~:text=Most%20metals%20have%20very%20high,melt%20gold%20at%20room%20temperature).


Gold and other chemical elements !








Quanten pair ,pair = "Zustaende/BEING", in-/stable






Physikalischer Zustand Der Unumkehrbarkeit


Physikalischer Zustand Der    Umkehrbarkeit




Rectenna/Nantenna with ordinary metals and/or transition metals
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on June 05, 2021, 09:10:44 AM
In the decomposition of water,unlike of other projects  I have hope for success, because molecular bonds are quantum things. And there various miracles can happen. :)
Although it has not yet been possible to create a high-intensity electric field in water.
A conductor of electric current, after all. And carbon dioxide, like many other things, a dielectric, is easier with it. As a child, I myself received ozone between two glass tubes with two electrodes.
In a Dielectric, a molecule can be broken apart by a sufficiently strong electric field. Ozone is an example of this. But how do you do it with water? There was hope for high frequencies, but they are also absorbed by water.

And what about water above the critical temperature, it loses its electrical conductivity?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: Sergh on June 05, 2021, 05:35:51 PM
Maybe in nanostructures superconductivity and "superinsulators" are possible. 
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: lancaIV on June 05, 2021, 07:29:54 PM
Maybe in nanostructures superconductivity and "superinsulators" are possible.


Not an answer but a step-by-step help by others :


https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/chaochen/files/7-2013_microfluid_nanofluid_brownian_motion-induced_water_slip_inside_carbon_nanotubes.pdf (https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/chaochen/files/7-2013_microfluid_nanofluid_brownian_motion-induced_water_slip_inside_carbon_nanotubes.pdf)


f.e.


"   .... , there is no critical interfacial shear stress to conquer, and water could slip inside CNTs under any given pressure drop due to the thermal activation at room temperature. ..."


conductivity
enforced c.
deforced c.
superconductivty
isolator


the physical "term" amplitude(max/min) defined


How small this here offered process can become micronized :
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=28&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19920507&CC=DE&NR=4035445A1&KC=A1 (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=28&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19920507&CC=DE&NR=4035445A1&KC=A1)
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: ramset on October 23, 2021, 01:35:58 PM

Quote from ACCA earlier in this topic
“”About 2 years ago I studied the Zographos videos and in one video he had a spectrum analyzer


the display had shown the the upper end of a 300 Ghz. which was quite a shock to me as I worked on radars on slightly lower frequencies.. In the glass test test tube he had placed a small metal plate. Some of the invited scientist passed around the small metal square plate, they where quite surprised, as the device would not work with out the metal square plate in the test tube.. and some years earlier another RF guy John Kanzius used an RF exciter 13.75 Mhz to split water in between two antennas again in a test tube with a tissue immersed wick and the gas would light the wick with a yellow flame as Zographos did it on Greek TV for hours at a time.  The point is that RF in it's self break's up water bonds, the question is what frequency is the best and what modulation is needed to do that.. Now I have split water with RF at 750 KHhz as using a Russian Tesla coil (katcher) a single transistor RF oscillator with some 10 watts of power and was surprised that it worked as it involved high frequency diodes and a test tube. I will post a video later of that..In closing I am surprised that Zographos is still around with incredible knowledge that he has amassed in his RF field in Cell phones.. SO I have posted here on another thread today about this New Zealand company they also have a cheap way of splitting water and it is 20 times less than the conventional electrolysis RF may be a contender as well as graphene.. This none of these tech(s) will NOT see the light of the day, unless it is opened sourced to the people..


Acca..
End quote

Ps from ... https://m.youtube.com/user/FleischmannMemorial/videos (https://m.youtube.com/user/FleischmannMemorial/videos)
A bump


And a hobby worth sharing??


Respectfully
Chet K

Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: kolbacict on October 23, 2021, 04:16:26 PM
Quote
Now I have split water with RF at 750 KHhz as using a Russian Tesla coil (katcher) a single transistor RF oscillator with some 10 watts of power and was surprised that it worked as it involved high frequency diodes and a test tube.
Why can't I succeed? Nothing is splited. Nothing comes out?
Title: Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
Post by: ramset on October 24, 2021, 04:12:04 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bZdX5Hhk9r0 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bZdX5Hhk9r0)


Carbon free steel using hydrogen
Being done by Volvo and Mercedes and ...


Enormous ...humungous reduction in carbon generation during manufacture
And water is the waste ......


See process description at 4 minute mark in vid


97% less carbon


ACCA


Please help !!


We need to have more “clean water is waste product
Of process”






After work is done


Respectfully
Chet K