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Author Topic: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water  (Read 43023 times)

Offline NdaClouDzzz

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Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
« Reply #120 on: April 19, 2021, 03:17:52 PM »
Practice overvolting some small (very small!) electrolytic caps.

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Offline stivep

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Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
« Reply #121 on: April 19, 2021, 05:17:12 PM »
There are two machines made from Petros Zografos.

One generates huge amounts of HHO and the other generates directly electricity.
The main principle of both machines is the same and they do not work with any kind of electrolysis.

The production of the HHO is done by bombarding water with high frequency electromagnetic waves in a scale of THz ( the exact frequency is kept secret).

The patent and schematics are here:
http://www.hellagen.gr/search/label/ΠΑΤΕΝΤΑ

site dedicated to the invention: http://www.hellagen.gr



 The original link to the patent doesn't show any results.
 Does anyone know where  to find  original patent in English.
Wesley
« Last Edit: April 19, 2021, 09:43:13 PM by stivep »


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Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
« Reply #122 on: April 19, 2021, 05:46:06 PM »
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Offline stivep

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Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
« Reply #123 on: April 19, 2021, 07:48:32 PM »
thank you for the link.
_____________________________
some additional information:
The main cause of sound attenuation in fresh water, and at high frequency in sea water (above 100 kHz) is viscosity.
Important additional contributions at lower frequency in seawater are associated with the ionic relaxation of boric acid (up to c. 10 kHz) and magnesium sulfate (c. 10 kHz-100 kHz).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_acoustics#:~:text=


That means  attenuation is a force and process that uses released energy to provide desired effect.
At different  frequency the effect will be characteristic to  already known phenomena . And that is why inventor keeps  frequency in secret.

__________________________________
Terahertz waves from electrons oscillating in liquid water:
Quote
Ionization of water molecules by light generates free electrons in liquid water.
so all you need is just light, or concentrated light by Fresnel lens

Quote
It displays a frequency between 0.2 and 1.5 THz, depending on the electron concentration in the liquid. The emitted THz waves originate from oscillations of the solvated electrons and their water ...
https://www.bing.com/search?q=THz+frequency++and++water&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=thz+frequency+and+water&sc=1-23&sk=&cvid=2ACDDA7BE2404C289263B35A1BC3697E


Hit a thin layer of water with the right frequency of a laser and it can emit terahertz radiation; this is useful for several purposes, such as viewing your insides safely (x-rays are dangerous, so exposure must be strictly limited; terahertz rays are safe).
https://www.bing.com/search?q=THz+frequency++and++water&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=thz+frequency+and+water&sc=1-23&sk=&cvid=2ACDDA7BE2404C289263B35A1BC3697E

REMEMBER:
NOT  ALL "LIGHT" IS VISIBLE.  means not all photons are noted but they are there.

After you resonate  in THz antenna ray  and rectify  these electromagnetical oscillation you have DC  energy  ready to use
simple electrical energy for free.  - FE
Unfortunately  to some of you :
You can't patent it as it is here said  by me.

By law - invention must not be published by anyone prior to filing .
So if you do that, than I will get you "by the balls"

Wesley
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 01:40:09 AM by stivep »

Offline stivep

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Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
« Reply #124 on: April 19, 2021, 08:19:25 PM »
tools to apply for  investigation of this  kind of FE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terahertz_time-domain_spectroscopy
it can also  be done for 10- 50 dollars of investment


Light Unit Conversion Table  - These are general conversion factors.
Unit of measure :
Footcandles
LUX
umol.m.2s1 of PAR
moles/day (PAR)
Watts/m.2 (total energy)
________________________________________________
WM.2:
Watts per square meter (WM.2). A unit of measure of the amount of light energy hitting a surface that is in the range of 400-800 nanometers.
some other forms of measurement :
https://www.stouchlighting.com/blog/electricity-and-energy-terms-in-led-lighting-j-kw-kwh-lm/w
_______________________________
But that is just measurement of light intensity and energy ...
We are interested in how much energy is  converted to  EM wave and than to electricity and that gives you your FE.
Wesley

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
« Reply #124 on: April 19, 2021, 08:19:25 PM »
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Offline stivep

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Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
« Reply #125 on: April 20, 2021, 12:58:49 AM »
There is number of articles that  may discourage  experimenter:
The one below will tell you that  it is impossible to  gain from  it due to nature of THz band.
https://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/military/the-truth-about-terahertz
____________________________________
Confusion of the public is caused by this article broad assumption,
that behavior of EM wave can be  looked at all frequencies starting from 1THz and up as unified.
Instead of it experimenter should look at properties of particular EM frequency .
The higher we  go the bigger  is energy of  every single period measured in eV, keV, MeV, GeV.
Article of Carter M. Armstrong vice president of engineering in the electron devices division of L-3 Communications, from Aug17 of  2012 | 19:39 GMT 
doesn't mention anything about light  shooting at water and creating EM wave.
_____________________________________
Quote
So to get a 1-W signal, you might need to start with kilowatts of input power, or greater.
Wesley's  explanation:
Never more wrong statement could be said by a scientist.
Article suffers with totall lack  of  explanation of :
-
THz antennas
-
wave behavior in Near and Far field.
-wave behavior in the interface.
-analysis of photon from sun heating your body  so you feel warm due to its energy conversion to  heat.
 
EXAMPLE:

heating of 1 liter of water  for 1degree of Celsius  requires:
Answer:
1 watt is = 24 calorie per second.
It takes 1000 calories to raise 1 liter of water one degree C.
So apply about 4000 watts for one second to do this.
EASY ENOUGH?
Can your body at 35 degree day , be  heated  for 1C up in 1 second?
https://www.quora.com/How-many-watts-are-required-to-raise-one-liter-of-water-by-one-degree-centigrade?top_ans=147118752

How about if :
- you get 4kW/h of energy from that conversion?
  Your typical  household uses  ~ 6kW per day.


You don't need to build a source, but  use spectral purity  you need by applying filters and polarization to the source , and your source is for free.
A simple piece of ferrite with its metal particles at right size to resonate with 1/4 or  half wavelength may act  as an excellent antenna
These particles are already isolated by bounding  compound  in the process of creation of that ferrite.
Cheap plastic strip 1m long made for refrigerator magnets before magnetization can be used .
The stack of many of them creates multilevel of stack antennas for array.
_________________________________________

There are two forms of conversion of sun energy that may interest  us.
1.  heat energy per cubic m of heated water where  max  depth is ~5cm.
2. energy of THz wave triggered  by  light and than converted to electricity
We would be interested  in  that energy density  from the distance  compatible to near field of that frequency  in the water or  just right above  it, using  High Gain antenna ray .
However in near field this antenna ray may act  like a transformer due to electromagnetic coupling of energy but definitely wouldn't look like transformer.
Example:
At 4mm frequency - a quarter wave antenna will have  active quarter wave element = 1mm.
that is still possible to be build at home with 26 gauge,  having  cheap Chinese microscope glass that costs $50


 Wesley
 

Offline stivep

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Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
« Reply #126 on: April 20, 2021, 02:50:31 AM »
Coming back to original patent  allowing Electrolysis of water and decomposition  of  water into oxygen and hydrogen gas.
If it was patented  by inventor ( I didn't check  patent status) than mechanisms mentioned by me earlier applies.

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20130213&CC=GR&NR=1007830B&KC=B#
Inventor(s):  ZOGRAFOS PETROS EVANGELOU [GR]; SPILIOPOULOS IOANNIS DIMITRIOU [GR]  +
Applicant(s):  ZOGRAFOS PETROS EVANGELOU [GR]; SPILIOPOULOS IOANNIS DIMITRIOU [GR] 
Classification:  international: B01J19/12; B01J7/02; C01B3/04; C25B1/04 
cooperative:  B01J19/129 (GR); B01J7/02 (GR); C01B3/042 (GR); C25B1/04 (GR); Y02E60/36 (EP)
Application number: GR20120100234 20120430 
Priority number(s):  GR20120100234 20120430
Body of the patent application:

Quote
Novelty: There are disclosed a method and a device destined for water electrolysis and production of hydrogen to be used
as combustible by combination of high frequencies produced by semitonic oscillators; when mixed, reinforced and combined,
said frequencies contrive to break water into its elements (hydrogen and oxygen) upon influence of the coordination effect.
Secondary frequencies configurating the structure of the primary frequencies for obtaining adequately-combined frequencies
by means of the respective electronic circuit composed of an isolator, a mixer, a directional coupler, a multiplier, configurators,
digital frequency controllers, and linear amplifiers can be introduced with the assistance of adequate main and auxiliary treatment
equipment into the primary frequencies produced by the semitonic oscillators.
The vibration of water molecules and the breaking thereof into hydrogen and oxygen are obtained by suitably-coordinated frequencies.
The gases are, thereafter, separated by special sorting guides while the produced hydrogen is conducted through the respective
specific connection to the energy generation mechanism for being used as fuel.



Due to the presence of gas and water molecules in the atmosphere, electromagnetic wave travels more slowly,
and part of its energy is scattered or absorbed.
Some molecules present in a standard atmosphere are excited by the specific frequencies in the THz band.
An excited molecule internally vibrates, and as a result of this vibration, part of the energy of the propagating wave
is converted into kinetic energy and is simply lost.
and yes we are  interested  in this energy conversion.



Wesley

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
« Reply #126 on: April 20, 2021, 02:50:31 AM »
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Offline stivep

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Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
« Reply #127 on: April 20, 2021, 03:03:11 AM »
here is  block schematic diagram:
-signal from filter 1 goes to  buffer2  (  capacitor)
-than is amplified by driver amplifier 3 ,
-than goes to mixer  with PLL loops 7 and 7' controlling  local    oscillators 5 and 5" whose frequency is modulated by modulators 6 and 6"
- after that frequency is changed x 26 and 
-than  is delivered to  the filter  10 like in regular heterodyne radio
-than we have directional coupler 
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_dividers_and_directional_couplers
  interesting is that this coupler has 2 ports  where each one  goes
  to  amplifiers   12A and 12B
  It is  one way transmission only

- than  we have  two amplifiers  12A and 12B  delivering signal  at 180  degrees phase difference  to   the two  opposite antenna electrodes inside the HHO chamber
 that signal is canceling itself inside of the chamber fluid.
 
The easiest way to understand it is  is to picture yourself  the cylindrical pipes one inside the other  where every second one is connected to  amplifier 12A
and every first one is connected to  amplifier 12B
Each of cylinders  must be  in resonance  with delivered  frequency and act  like load with the fluid inside.
So if  first  cylinder  of amplifier 12 is  inside  having small diameter fi  and being the tallest
than third  cylinder  of amplifier 12 is  having  much larger diameter fi  but  is smaller .
the   fifth   cylinder  of amplifier 12 is  having  much, much  larger diameter fi  but  is smaller than  first and  second
For me this is classical Stanley Meyer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Meyer%27s_water_fuel_cell


Unfortunately I don't speak  Greek Language  to tell you more.
But THz frequency is unlikely used there.

Wesley

Offline kolbacict

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Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
« Reply #128 on: April 20, 2021, 10:34:22 AM »
you would take and replica this device. You have more opportunities for this.
Unlike us.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
« Reply #128 on: April 20, 2021, 10:34:22 AM »
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Offline Acca

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Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
« Reply #129 on: April 21, 2021, 04:31:55 AM »
Wesley much gratitude for your efforts in these posts, it had to hours to compose these..

Acca..

Offline kolbacict

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Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
« Reply #130 on: April 21, 2021, 10:48:42 AM »
Can our respected Wesley be able to answer how this works?  I really don't understand.
He knows everything, explained my most tricky questions.  :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_capacitor
Quote
the ratio of conductivity to permittivity means that self discharge time is circa 180μs,
The spark gap cannot operate at this speed (frequency).
Or this drawing, someone's joke?

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Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
« Reply #130 on: April 21, 2021, 10:48:42 AM »
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Offline lancaIV

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Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
« Reply #131 on: April 21, 2021, 03:03:02 PM »
" .... self discharge ...." : related (search machine) sonolumniscence
#123: to somebody " his balls" a published THz- spectrum heater/cooler by Dr.Helmut Reichelt et al. as " (no) power stick",date : 1982 ,so new ,only +- 40 years young !  ::)

Offline stivep

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Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
« Reply #132 on: April 21, 2021, 08:37:28 PM »
Can our respected Wesley be able to answer how this works?  I really don't understand.
He knows everything, explained my most tricky questions.  :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_capacitorThe spark gap cannot operate at this speed (frequency).
Or this drawing, someone's joke?

Wikipedia:
Quote
(for totally pure water, only thermally ionized, at 25 °C (77 °F) the ratio of conductivity to permittivity means that self discharge time is circa 180μs,
faster with higher temperatures or dissolved impurities)
usually cannot be made to store enough residual electrical energy to cause serious bodily injury.

Our modern world  still at some point uses  lies.
The reason  we think about some  Russians as lair's is  that the sophistication of these lies 
is likely not at the level  or in  the brackets of our Western World average perception "bandwidth."

By that:
Wikipedia is not Russian  and can't  lie, Wikipedia can only be incorrect  but not  for long,.


Yes 
no generator can operate  in the water  or based on  water  capacitors  and High Frequency

Quote
If the current flowing in the capacitor exceeds the thermal rating of the pathway for a time period of
sufficient duration such that the temperature rise causes a catastrophic failure of the insulation, then the cap blows.
https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-calculate-the-max-frequency-a-capacitor-could-withstand-before-it-blows
So it is thermal withstanding factor at W/area in mm that  makes it fail and the higher temperature the  higher is heat/per mm to the 3dth .( cubic)
Quote
water capacitors do not require oil. (in many older designs of capacitors it can be toxic)
 
Quote
Capacitance can be increased by the addition of electrolytes and minerals to the water, but this increases
the self leakage, and cannot be done beyond its saturation point.[6]


Quote
Water has been shown not to be a very reliable substance to store electric charge long term, so more reliable materials are used
for capacitors in industrial applications.[3]
 However water has the advantage of being self healing after a breakdown, and if the water is steadily circulated through
a de-ionizing resin and filters, then the loss resistance and dielectric behavior can be stabilized.
Thus, in certain unusual situations, such as the generation of extremely high voltage but very short pulses,
 a water capacitor may be a practical solution – such as in an experimental Xray pulser.[4]
_________________________________

Phenomena mentioned by me  in THz range are related not to a charge but to a electromagnetic wave that needs
to be  received and than rectified  to become FE energy used by  us.
And that is what I was talking about  in my few post  above  starting from interaction of  Light  of the sun and  response of water
in THz range.


Wesley

Offline stivep

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Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
« Reply #133 on: April 21, 2021, 08:54:25 PM »
 That is why in known load and known voltage the dielectric breakdown  of  a material can be calculated and no water is needed.
  like here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnwhVggZuh8
5C30.50 - Marx Generator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fvpEb2QO8s
New Marx Generator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep3D_LC2UzU
Cockcroft-Walton Multiplier

Wesley

Offline kolbacict

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Re: HHO Generation using High Frequency electromagnetic waves on water
« Reply #134 on: April 22, 2021, 08:11:55 AM »
Well, I know how the Marx generator works. The question was not about that.
The question was, how can this work in water?!
The speed of operation of spark gaps should be an order of magnitude higher than the self-discharge time of the water capacitor.

p.s.    sorry, didn’t notice it.
https://overunity.com/16440/hho-generation-using-high-frequency-electromagnetic-waves-on-water/msg556971/#msg556971
But even if it is used on rare occasions,
Quote
However water has the advantage of being self healing after a breakdown, and if the water is steadily circulated through
a de-ionizing resin and filters, then the loss resistance and dielectric behavior can be stabilized.
Thus, in certain unusual situations, such as the generation of extremely high voltage but very short pulses,
 a water capacitor may be a practical solution – such as in an experimental Xray pulser.[4]
How do spark gaps manage to operate before water self-discharge?

 

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