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Author Topic: I have a proven model I built. I am looking for like minded people who know more  (Read 35674 times)

Offline Void

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Again just like a car, once you get that rolling and shifting gears you'll have more than enough to power a generator to energize your power source.
Now if there is anyway that all the physicists, mathematicians or self proclaimed genius can disprove this theory here, let be known that I, Frank Dufault, will argue with them till I am blue in the face and die. Lol


Hi MeGaFarr. It is not really up to others to disprove your contention, especially when you make it clear that
you will not accept anything anyone, including physicists, have to say about the matter. :)

Since you insist, that when using your setup, that once the flywheel is up to full rotational speed it will have
more than enough mechanical energy to continue to drive its own power source from that point on,
why don't you simply connect in an efficient electric generator/alternator to a sprocket/pulley setup on the flywheel
shaft and use the electric power generated to power the electric drive motor, once the flywheel is up to full speed?
There are probably people here who can recommend a suitable electric generator to use for such a test, and who can
probably give you some instructions on how to wire it in and test if you need assistance with doing that.

There are some other people around the world who have already built similar flywheel setups, and a few also claim that
such a flywheel setup will be able to run itself as well. You have already built the flywheel drive part of the setup, so why
not finish the last remaining part of the setup by adding in an electric generator and an electric switch to the output
wires from the electric generator, which allows you to switch the drive motor input power wires over from the mains to the output
from the electric generator?  All you need is an electric generator that will be able to meet the AC power requirements of
the drive motor when it is driving the flywheel and electric generator. You will probably have to use a gear/pulley system to match
the flywheel shaft RPM speed to the RPM speed requirements of the electric generator, and then you will be all set to
put your ideas to a proper test.

There is a world of difference between thinking that something will work, and actually putting the idea through proper testing
to see if in fact it will work as you think it should work. Otherwise you are only just speculating, no matter how much you may
believe the setup can run itself.

All the best...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline MileHigh

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Well I skimmed through this thread.   It's kind of amusing with respect to YouTube because you can see all the other flywheel free energy plays in the YouTube related clips section, there are so many of them.  Even good old Chas Campbell made an appearance!

Alas, Frank's box o' flywheels is just your typical flywheel zero sum game.  You can only get as much out as you put in less friction.

The Cadillac solution for a single home would probably work, but of course it is simply way too expensive:  Below your basement floor a high-tech vacuum-bearing composite carbon flywheel is entombed in the ground.  Your entire roof is a solar array.  You might even have a windmill on your property.

Presumably, the energy that you can collect from solar and wind can keep your flywheel spinning such that you could power everything in your house with it, including the electric kitchen range.   If you had an extended period of weather with overcast days and no sunshine, you might have too dip into the grid once in a while.  Note however, that that might be offset by days where your flywheel is topped off such that you sell power back to the grid for a "net zero grid" usage.

It sounds wonderful, but it just costs too damn much.

MileHigh

Offline MeGaFaRR

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To void and mile high:
Please go stand in front of a car that is standing still, now as the car starts moving see if you can slow it down by pushing. Probably not, but at least you could get out of the way. Now go stand in front of a car going 100 mph and show me all that friction and resistance that you are talking about. We'll then see who is right. Just as in this scenario once momentum takes over, you ain't slowly down too easy. That is the energy I'm talking about.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

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Offline MeGaFaRR

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As far as I can see, no one in all the free energy videos on YouTube or anywhere else including all the F.E.S.S. Sites that I've been to, have ever put a transmission between the flywheel and the power source. Always been what goes in, must come out. Never seen anyone anywhere say "what goes in, hey, wait a minute, let's multiply that force with a transmission, then let's see what comes out"

Offline Void

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To void and mile high:
Please go stand in front of a car that is standing still, now as the car starts moving see if you can slow it down by pushing. Probably not, but at least you could get out of the way. Now go stand in front of a car going 100 mph and show me all that friction and resistance that you are talking about. We'll then see who is right. Just as in this scenario once momentum takes over, you ain't slowly down too easy. That is the energy I'm talking about.

Hi MeGaFaRR. Your comment quoted above has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote in my comment.
Please re-read my previous comment, and please don't confuse what I wrote with something someone else here may
have written. I stated that the only way you can truly see if your ideas that such a setup can run itself are
valid or not is to put it to a proper test. Otherwise all you have is ideas and talk.

If your purpose here is to get into hot air belief wars, then continue on as you have been doing here up till now.
If you ever want to have any hope of convincing anyone reasonable that your ideas have actual practical merit, then
simply connect an electric generator to the flywheel shaft on your contraption, and use a switch to switch the power wires from
the drive motor over from the mains to the electric generator output once the flywheel is up to full speed. You then won't have to
speculate any more. It will either work as you believe it will work, or it won't. No reasonable person will accept claims such as yours
without some hard proof as demonstrated with a working prototype, which people can examine up close. All else is just more speculative
claims and chatter to add to the endless mountains of claims and chatter about such things which can be found all over the internet these days.

So, are you just here to start arguments and insinuate that anyone who doesn't blindly accept your claims is an idiot, or do you
really want to put your ideas to a proper test to see if they have any merit in reality? I have explained in this comment and my previous
comment how you can do a simple test to see how it really works. So, why are you here? To argue, or to get to the truth? If you
really are interested in the truth, then your only choice is to put your ideas to a proper test and see what the results are.
All else is just talk... Nothing more. :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

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Offline MeGaFaRR

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To void:
I do apologize for being snippy but what I've built is just one of many designs I've tried to complete but if you read my statement this morning that I posted, I am claiming that, that version is an old concept but still proved to me that it is right in design but antiquated in practicality.

What I have put forward is something that at this moment I cannot fund or have the ability to complete at this time.

Power unit. Then transmission. Then flywheel. With momentum you have built a F.E.S.S. that is more than adequate to power itself. I do not like arguing with anyone, I just get frustrated when I get told you are wrong when everything I've done says I'm right and no one answers the simple physics questions I put forward. To bring arguments forward about wind and solar does not have anything to do about my proposal I have put forward.

Thanks and with all regards if you want to disprove what I have just stated about my theory then by all means, do so.
Frank

Offline MeGaFaRR

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Ok, I will state all the facts today that I believe to be true. Now as I post them you are more then welcome to disprove any facts I put forward but please at anytime keep them relevant to the facts being stated.
Now with my old contraption I built, I've proven that with momentum and power source at full rpm's that I can always add with clutch approximately another 60% size flywheel to flywheel that is already in motion without barely losing any momentum from power source.
If there are any comments to argue this point please state them now.
Thanks
Frank

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

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Offline memoryman

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Until you measure very carefully AND know how to interpret your measurements, you have speculation, nothing more.
Adding a transmission is nothing new and won't make a difference.
Using Phi or any other other ratio won't make a difference.
If you are not getting more energy out than in, what is the purpose of this?

Offline Void

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What I have put forward is something that at this moment I cannot fund or have the ability to complete at this time.

Hi Frank. Ok, no worries. Then I guess your only option to see if your ideas will really work as you think
is if someone else is willing to build a prototype and put it to a proper test, to see if it will self run.

Some things that may interest you:

There is a guy in the USA named Jesse McQueen who filed for a patent in 2006 for a configuration in which
an electric motor drives and electric generator (without any flywheel used, I believe), and Mr. McQueen claims that
by using a modern high efficiency electric motor and a high efficiency generator, and with the proper gearing
between the motor and generator, that it will not only self run, but produce a fair bit of excess power as well.
Now just because he filed for a patent, it doesn't mean that it really works as he claims, but it does show that
Mr. McQueen was seemingly serious enough about his claims that he was willing to spend the money to
apply for a patent for his particular configuration. From what I recall, Mr. McQueen claimed in an interview that
he was working with someone from the UN in investigating his device, and I think he also said that some company
had bought the rights to his patent from him and that the company was going to develop the device. 
You can find Jesse McQueen's patent application here:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US7095126B2/en
PDF File:
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US7095126.pdf


An electrical engineer in the UK named Harold Aspden (now passed on), claimed that he noticed in some informal tests he did with running
a machine with a spinning rotor on it, that after an initial run to bring the machine up to full speed and letting it run for a few
minutes at full speed, and then bringing the machine to a stop, that subsequent tests of bringing the machine up to full
rotational speed would take less energy consumption from the driving electric motor, than the first run.  Mr. Aspden theorized that the machine
may be drawing in energy from 'the vacuum' which was was causing this anomaly. However, Mr. Aspden apparently never followed
up on those original informal tests in which he observed the unusual effect that he reported, and so I don't know
if there are much more details about his exact setup than that available.
You can read a little about Mr. Aspden's description of the effect he claimed to have seen here:
http://www.haroldaspden.com/lectures/30.htm
If there is really something to the effect that Mr. Aspden claimed to have noticed by accident when conducting some
other tests, then it might explain how it could be possible that a motor/generator arrangement could bring
in more energy than is being supplied through the driving motor alone.

One forum member here attempted to put this concept to a test using an electric motor to drive a large flywheel, but
I don't know if Grum tested much beyond the quick test he showed in the following youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m85GS5APXfk

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline AlienGrey

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The Fibonacci Sequence - God's Mathematical Design of the Universe

http://youtu.be/8Vajq-UK2aE


yes now see how big a computer program would be to produce that out put for 8 bits on a stand alown micro chip !
from a look up table, unless you know how to do it with out screw up glitches  ;)

Offline CANGAS

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Ok, I will state all the facts today that I believe to be true. Now as I post them you are more then welcome to disprove any facts I put forward but please at anytime keep them relevant to the facts being stated.
Now with my old contraption I built, I've proven that with momentum and power source at full rpm's that I can always add with clutch approximately another 60% size flywheel to flywheel that is already in motion without barely losing any momentum from power source.
If there are any comments to argue this point please state them now.
Thanks
Frank


You have stated virtually NONE of the pertinent facts that are needed so as to figure out if you got more power out than power in.

Frank, you are looking like you are a joker. Or, you can't figure out what is your dream versus what is your waking reality.

If you are lucid and sincere, then give us ALL the pertinent facts we need to believe you.

Your move.


CANGAS 209

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline sm0ky2

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Ok, I will state all the facts today that I believe to be true. Now as I post them you are more then welcome to disprove any facts I put forward but please at anytime keep them relevant to the facts being stated.
Now with my old contraption I built, I've proven that with momentum and power source at full rpm's that I can always add with clutch approximately another 60% size flywheel to flywheel that is already in motion without barely losing any momentum from power source.
If there are any comments to argue this point please state them now.
Thanks
Frank
the first thing to consider is the ratio of gearing.
whether it be belt drive pulley diameter to diameter
or chain pulley diameter to diameter
gear tooth per rotation, etc.

once determining the ratio of rotation compared to the drive mechanism,
one can then determine the torque ratio available, from the prime motive force to the moved object.

from this perspective, one can determine how much energy is transferred from one wheel to the next.

this does not account for friction at the pulley bearings/bushings, or friction on the chain or gear teeth, etc.

when you state that you can "clutch to another sized gear without barely losing momentum in first flywheel"
how much momentum is actually lost? this is important, because it relates directly to the "energy" available from one flywheel to the next.

Offline Temporal Visitor

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Your enthusiasm is infectious Frank.  I too have been thinking about this even though I'm trying to concentrate on another project.

Got an idea how to completely eliminate the clutch...

Radius.

We need a mechanism having bars of mass that are held close-in to the shaft.  These bars would be pinned on one end and attached to serious heavy springs on the other end--maybe even some sort of hydraulic dampener.  As RPM increases, the centrifugal force causes the unpinned end of the heavy masses to begin to swing outward from the shaft.  The springs/dampener need to be calibrated in such a way where the RPM is controlled so the mass doesn't just swing out too rapidly decreasing the flywheel RPM.  What we want is a nice smooth expansion of the masses outward while RPM is increasing.  I'm sure if we ran the numbers through some force equations we could determine the proper size springs for the mass they will be supporting.

Hopefully you can picture in your mind what I'm talking about.  Think of the spinning ballerina when she drops or raises her arms.

The interesting side effect we would see with such a mechanism is that when RPM is reduced, the springs would pull the masses back in creating a feedback that would speed the rotation back up without any help from the prime mover.  You would end up with a self recovering flywheel that within a particular range would always attempt to hold the same RPM.

What's ya think 'bout that?

Hello again D-O,

Nice to read your idea as you are not wrong about the pulling the arms in to reduce the radius and what will happen. Unfortunately such a design quickly becomes beyond the build abilities of many people (more like most) and is loaded with moving wearing parts, giving rise to serious balancing issues, friction, windage losses and structural issues. Beyond those is the fact that (TTBOM"K") there is  no "known" way around the increased INERTIA that will rise/increase as the arms are moved out to increase the radius of variable radius flywheel which as you are probably aware requires more input FORCE/TORQUE to bring the device back up to whatever the design speed is set to be, which means more POWER is required. Not all that efficient from the beginning and certainly not "over efficient".

Essentially you have described a flyweight governor using multiple levers (lots of little parts) which will not be a practical way to go but one you can be sure of that could be demonstrated to act as a variable radius flywheel without using a clutch.

How do I "know"? = This is ancient technology. In my designs it is one of many that have been passed over for others, much more practical designs that have since already been BUILT and PROVEN to WORK. Some with clutches, some without and accomplish the ultimate goal: a practical method of generating energy. PERIOD! (:Gen-E-Sys II. - Generated ENERGY Systems)

You wrote; "What's ya think 'bout that?"

Here is what I think, it is pleasing to read that (a) you could visualize what you have, (b) shared your thoughts, and (c) might even be infected. (d) It is a great starting point, a step in the right direction on a long journey to discover what "energy" truly is and is not "in reality".

I ask: Wanna learn about doing far better using a one piece part? : a Lever of the Fourth Class.
http://www.backgauges.com/Gen-E-Sys%20II/contact.html

Offline AlienGrey

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Hello again D-O,



Here is what I think, it is pleasing to read that (a) you could visualize what you have, (b) shared your thoughts, and (c) might even be infected. (d) It is a great starting point, a step in the right direction on a long journey to discover what "energy" truly is and is not "in reality".

I ask: Wanna learn about doing far better using a one piece part? : a Lever of the Fourth Class.
http://www.backgauges.com/Gen-E-Sys%20II/contact.html

What are you talking about? your link goes to a data base witch link are you talking about ?

Offline Temporal Visitor

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What are you talking about? your link goes to a data base witch link are you talking about ?

The one provided of course to make CONTACT, if you so choose.

 

OneLink