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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: NRamaswami on February 17, 2016, 08:51:49 AM

Title: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: NRamaswami on February 17, 2016, 08:51:49 AM
Hi..

This is a new thread..

No Patents..Possible Improvements to known or imagined Devices of Electricity Generator Device

What is a self running Electricity Generator Device

You start the Generator with a small current and then ignore it. Generator produces the current needed to excite it and keep it running and also produces useful electricity output..

Tariel Kapanadze device is one such device shown on Youtube..

Other claimed Devices are Figuera Device, Hubbard Device, Hendershot Device, Daniel McFarland Cook Device, Ed Gray Device, Dr. Moray Device, Cater Device..

I have not studied any of them. However I have tested and produced with my limited knowledge COP>1 devices and so I know it is possible.

There are other rumoured devices..This is an open sesame thread.. Any one can post any ideas..Information,Misinformation, Diverting information any and all are welcome..

So Post all your comments here now..The problem is since I do not know any thing and I am neither qualified in this subject I will neither be impressed nor worried nor careless nor careful about any statements unless they are shown with the proof of the workind device.. Videos welcome. Mode of construction welcome..But all open source information only..

Only thing that is required is SRS Qualification of the Device.

Safety
Repeatability
Sustainability

and of course Low cost Low tech manufacturing techniquies. Least amount of parts needed so people on shoe string budget also can do them are the kind of things needed. Please post..
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: TinselKoala on February 17, 2016, 12:19:27 PM
Quote
However I have tested and produced with my limited knowledge COP>1 devices and so I know it is possible.

Oh? 


Quote
I will neither be impressed nor worried nor careless nor careful about any statements unless they are shown with the proof of the workind device.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: Dog-One on February 17, 2016, 12:37:12 PM
I do not know any thing about Refrigeration or quite frankly speaking on any Electrical device. I'm a Lawyer and by some invisible force that kicks me that I have got in to this field.

We do not break laws here, so your services will likely sit idle.
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: NRamaswami on February 17, 2016, 12:57:09 PM
Lens Law..is here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenz%27s_law

This can be cancelled in a single solenoid primary by winding coils like this.

Look at the Solenoid as a Vertical Solenoid.

Wind all the coils in the same direction.

Wind one Layer of Primary P1 from Top to bottom

Next wind a secondary coil from top to bottom in the same direction

Third Wind a second Primary coil from bottom to top in the same direction.

Give currents in parallel in the two primaries. This in effect produces two Lenz effects.

One Lenz law effect would try to counter the downward current with an upward movement. Another Lens law effect in the same secondary would counter the upward current with a downward motion. The upward and downward movements of secondary are each mutually opposite and cancel each other. In a nutshell you do this without the iron cores between the wires but here the wire is on the wire producing induction and the Central solenoid can be an air core or iron core. It may not entirely cancel out the Lenz law effect but may do so substantially.

Please do the experiment and come up with results and videos. Let us see what happens..
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: nul-points on February 17, 2016, 01:01:59 PM
We do not break laws here, so your services will likely sit idle.

....er...

overunity.com/16415/unlocking-the-second-law-of-thermodynamics/msg474419 (http://overunity.com/16415/unlocking-the-second-law-of-thermodynamics/msg474419)

LOL

np
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: norman6538 on February 17, 2016, 03:28:24 PM
I've been re-reading the former thread and making notes and last night awoke with
Figuera on my mind and had a Ureka moment of understanding. It all started with
increasing/decreasing wondering why this was necessary so here it goes.

My primary brain understanding comes first from descriptive words and then
from drawings. So here are the words first.

my Figuera functional part descriptions/concepts

1. 2 primary coils with secondary sandwiched between them called sets
2. motionless induction by varying the currents  -

 a. one primary   coil increasing and
b. the other decreasing. This is done
   by brushes on a commutator changing resistors that supply
   the primary. The brush has segment overlap so no break in circuit
   and back emf and sparks giving brush wear longevity.
   NO MECHANICAL MOTION OF MAGNETS OR COILS - THUS NO LENZ COUNTER TO
    MECHANICAL MOTION.
   
3. Pictue a brush is staggered over two contacts so that on the left
   the first segment has a small resistor going to "primary coil a" and on the
   right a long resistor going to "primary coil b". The second segment
   has a longer resistor allowing less current to "primary coil a" and
   on the right is a shorter resistor allowing more current to "primary coil b".
   Then segment 3 on the left has a longer resistor allowing less current
   to "primary coil a" and on the right is a shorter resistor allowing
   more current to "primary coil b". What this does is allows a strong magnetic
   field on one end and a weaker field on the other end BUT THIS HAS NO VALUE
   UNLESS THE COIL POLES ARE EQUAL and what that does is pushes the
   magnetic field from one end to the other through the secondary and thus inducing the secondary    coil similar to a magnet being pushed into a coreless coil where it
   makes a current as it enters and makes the opposite current when it
   leaves the other end and then can be pushed back through again. So you can see
   if you reduce the push on one side then the field from the other side will
    reach through the coil and make a current and then you can also increase
    the field in that end and simultaneously reduce the magnetic field in the
    other end and bring the field back out the end of the coil making a current.
     And this is done for the cost of the mechanical rotation of the commutator
      and the input current wattage.
     
    NOTE If the primary coil poles were opposite the flux would be addative
    and then you would ask why the increasing/decreasing currents? 
   
4. there are multiple coil sets that would allow each one to cool a bit
   while they are not powered.
   
   
5. A youtube shows repel neos with coil between and what that shows is
   a dense flux and a current is made with repel but not with different poles.
    Sorry - lost the url for that youtube.

6. What I don't know is where the extra current comes from. perhaps the repel
    concentration.  Surely  NO LENZ counter to motion allows more watts
    at the same input power unlike mechanical coil moving past magnet generator.

7. this youtube shows increasing/decreasing makes a current -
https://youtu.be/ScTHwo-Jaq4 (https://youtu.be/ScTHwo-Jaq4) 7 mins Published on Dec 21, 2015
Jonathan Peters this one shows varying the field with a pot and it lights leds.
pot changes flux increasing/decreasing and makes current - lights leds.

   
8. The mechanical commutator could easily be replaced by a circuit to sequence the coils and then you would have lots of variations available for testing.

There are other things about the coils and wire size that I am working on now
but not finished.  - will post later.

I feel much better about this understanding.

Norman
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: darediamond on February 17, 2016, 05:28:09 PM
Lens Law..is here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenz%27s_law

This can be cancelled in a single solenoid primary by winding coils like this.

Look at the Solenoid as a Vertical Solenoid.

Wind all the coils in the same direction.

Wind one Layer of Primary P1 from Top to bottom

Next wind a secondary coil from top to bottom in the same direction

Third Wind a second Primary coil from bottom to top in the same direction.

Give currents in parallel in the two primaries. This in effect produces two Lenz effects.

One Lenz law effect would try to counter the downward current with an upward movement. Another Lens law effect in the same secondary would counter the upward current with a downward motion. The upward and downward movements of secondary are each mutually opposite and cancel each other. In a nutshell you do this without the iron cores between the wires but here the wire is on the wire producing induction and the Central solenoid can be an air core or iron core. It may not entirely cancel out the Lenz law effect but may do so substantially.

Please do the experiment and come up with results and videos. Let us see what happens..
Okay. Thank you for answering my question. However this leads to another series of questions
1. Can twisted multifilar wire be used to make this type of Lenzless Overunity Motionless TrafoGen?
2. What best type of current can be used to power this type of Trafo Gen?
3. Provided I made 5 Primaries and 4 secondaries, how should the Secondaries be connected? Series or Parallel?
4. If I use Mtifillar wire to wind the primaries, will I not first have to connect the strands of each Primaries in series first  before connecting them to one another in Parallel as well you directed in your amswer ealier?

Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: Glenn_FR on February 17, 2016, 05:48:27 PM
Hello,
If I understand NRamaswami correctly, he describes :  1st primary wound CW (clockwise); secondary wound CW; 2nd primary wound CCW.

Having very sparse reserves of copper wire (France being such a sophisticated country has privatized everything, including domestic appliance collection, meaning that it now is almost impossible to salvage MOTs or other sources of wire & components for free), I'm not sure I'll build such a coil.

My thoughts, however : yes, the two primary coils may well cancel their mutual inductance, and may well exhibit low Lenz effect - but I don't think that there will be any magnetic effect either : the two coils try to generate equal but opposing magnet fields.  You'd probably just generate heat ?

I'd like to see someone try it and post the real results.
Glenn
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: darediamond on February 17, 2016, 06:14:50 PM
We need deeper clarifications Mr. Nramaswami

When an Electromagnet is made to have a secondary coil, then it becomes a Transformer.  And when such  Transformer is Lenzeless, it turns to Overunity Generator. Mr. Ramaswami, does not this type of lenZless winding you described another type of Overunity Trafo Gen?

Please answer each of my earlier question and the new ones too

Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: hanon on February 17, 2016, 09:05:41 PM
Hi,

In theory it does not care about the winding direction of each coil. Its polarity just depends on the sense in which current circulates (rotates) along the wire. You may wind a coil CW, but if you feed with positive terminal of the battery in the upper point of the coil then the circulation is CW, but if you feed it in its lower side the current will circulate CCW. In each case the polarity will be different, even having the same winding. The polarity is just related to the rotation of the current around the coil (Right Hand Rule)

One question: in your proposal are both primaries P1 and P2 fed in the upper part of both coils? Or is one coil fed in its upper part and the other coil in its lower part?
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: RandyFL on February 17, 2016, 11:04:24 PM
Hello All,

Rams...finally you got your own thread ( congrads ).

You say ... you've witnessed your own device produce OU... ( I think the saying goes like this ... I'm from Missouri " Show Me "  )
Anyway... how long will it be before you have the " video " if you don't already have one or I think you had stated the " investigators " were going to test your apparatus ...when?

R
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: core on February 18, 2016, 02:35:03 AM
There are other rumoured devices..This is an open sesame thread.. Any one can post any ideas..Information,Misinformation, Diverting information any and all are welcome..

Are you sure about this? We where all in the "other" thread and were basically asked to leave because we didn't conform to one persons vision of the device. So I will ask again, If we don't agree with your theoretical operation and propose much more logical solutions will we be accused of treason to the crown?


.....The problem is since I do not know any thing and I am neither qualified in this subject I will neither be impressed nor worried nor careless nor careful about any statements unless they are shown with the proof of the workind device.. Videos welcome. Mode of construction welcome..But all open source information only..

When do we see your video? You have made some claims, ...... and please don't tell me you don't have a camera and have trouble downloading files from your phone.  :o I don't think I can honestly take another BS line like that.

How about we make a simple rule:

RULE#1: "No claims of COP>1 until a video and some decent drawings can be posted"

This will go a long way in preventing the loonies that drink the magic elixir and wake up thinking GOD spoke to them, and only them that night.......... Deal? 

BTW.... As far as not knowing anything. There are 80,000 plus members on this forum. Not one has an OU device, what does that tell you about there knowledge of such things. I think you fit right in.  ;)

Only thing that is required is SRS Qualification of the Device.

Safety
Repeatability
Sustainability

and of course Low cost Low tech manufacturing techniquies. Least amount of parts needed so people on shoe string budget also can do them are the kind of things needed. Please post..

I can buy into this, the few guys that had build skills appear also to be on this thread, myself included. I am all in, providing we all understand that this isn't a "one way street" meaning "it's not just about your device"

-Core
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: Kator01 on February 18, 2016, 03:01:03 AM
Hello,

this is not a Lenzless coil-setup, its Eugene Efimovs "Unilateral induction" which was published already 5 years ago.

Honour belongs to the inventor E. Efimov:

https://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciteclibrary.ru%2Frus%2Fcatalog%2Fpages%2F11518.html (https://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciteclibrary.ru%2Frus%2Fcatalog%2Fpages%2F11518.html)

Kator01

Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: core on February 18, 2016, 03:30:38 AM
Having very sparse reserves of copper wire (France being such a sophisticated country has privatized everything, including domestic appliance collection, meaning that it now is almost impossible to salvage MOTs or other sources of wire & components for free), I'm not sure I'll build such a coil.

That's a shame Glenn, here in America we throw perfectly good stuff out. Garbage night is like an OU researchers Christmas. 


My thoughts, however : yes, the two primary coils may well cancel their mutual inductance, and may well exhibit low Lenz effect - but I don't think that there will be any magnetic effect either : the two coils try to generate equal but opposing magnet fields.  You'd probably just generate heat ?

That heat doesn't come free but at the expense of current. And I think you are right about the heat. No matter what it would be a loss in the system. I honestly don't see how a Primary coil feeding a secondary coil doesn't produce Lenz and typical losses that are associated with such designs.

....... But I am staying open minded and I'm here to learn.


-Core
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: core on February 18, 2016, 04:15:23 AM
Ok, here is a PDF document of what I am designing around. This was my preliminary thought, on the right side of the document I explain the sequence and site patents that influenced the design. As always sequence and design are subject to change.

-Core
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: core on February 18, 2016, 04:27:14 AM
Here are some pictures of the build in progress. I am about 80% complete, as always I build for flexibility because I want to make changes in minutes and not days.

- Core
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: core on February 18, 2016, 04:28:35 AM
More Pics
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: core on February 18, 2016, 04:30:16 AM
And more
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: NRamaswami on February 18, 2016, 02:20:03 PM
Core:

I have cameras and can take videos and have no problem posting them. But please see my devices are assembled and then disassembled and I need people to come to work for me to do replicate the device.

All punches are welcome here.. All ideas are welcome..Nothing excluded..No problems..You set the rule for determining the OU..How it is to be proved...As far as I'm concerned I think it should be Ok if I use a computer UPS to power about 8000 watts for more than the time the UPS can power them. UPS is 1.1 kilowatt UPS. If I produce from the input of the UPS more than 1100 watts which is not possible for the UPS to be performed you need to agree. Is it fair?  Video yes,..No problems..I do not want to show the construction etc Videos but we will assemble the device and then show the Device powering all 40x200 watts lamps..I think it should satisfy you or any one else. We will check what is the input watts and what is the output watts.

Please let me know how many here have built Magnetic core devices where the core weighs 150 kgms..All seem to play with Electronics..Not Electromagnetics..which is what I have done.

Hanon is correct.. Direction of rotation of current determines the polarity. whether it is AC or DC or Pulsed DC.. In the device tested current rotates in the same direction in the primaries.

I think Marathonman is on record that a working device for 5 kW is already done and is working for one year now. I cannot claim that.

Dare Diamond..Sir..

A multifilar Primary wire on one Electromagnet has to be connected in serial first to make the single primary coil. Let us say it is P1.

You wind separate P1, P2.P3 etc..These primaries are connected in parallel. I think you would need four Primaries. Try to see that the following is ensured.

Four Primaries

Three secondaries.

Secondaries are 2/3rd the length and diameter of the primary. Secondary wire is wound just to cover the core of the primary.

Magnetism in Each Primary core must be in the region of 0.3 to 0.4 Tesla. Not more. Secondary will have higher Magnetism.

Do not put any wire under the Primary coil. Let us check the Figuera design first.

Each Primary has double the Weight of the core of the secondary.

In Each Primary Current either moves towards the central secondary placed in between or moves away simultanously.

The arrangment will be like this..

P1----->S1<------P2----S2-----P3------>S3<--------

followed by

P1<-----S1------>P2-----S2-----P3<------S3-------->

Here S2 is placed in between the poles of the P2 and P3. S2 is the bonus secondary coil..

Secondaries are connected in series.

Primary turns are same.. We have seen best output is produced in the secondary when both the primaries are equal in power.

Regarding the Russian Scientist claim..Who are we honor..Prof. Figuera or the Russian Scientist..I think all who show an innovative spirit and take a move to take the one step forward are to be honored. I think a similar statement was made about an American Author who wrote the Healing is Voltage Book. He indicates that same wave patterns were used in devices made in US much before he or the Russian Scientist made them..So what do we know..Incidentally so far from 2013 no one has given us this information..Language barrier you see...

My Problem is that this is not a regular work for me and we do the experiments once in a month or fortnight. Any one can test the device and let us know what is the result..what is the problem...

The purpose of our providing the information open source is to make others benefit..Only when it is done this work would become useful..I would suggest that let others build the device as indicated and then come back and bomb me after that if they are not able to replicate.

Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: NRamaswami on February 19, 2016, 06:14:09 AM
DareDiamond..Sir..My apologies I have not clearly shown the circuit..

Let me restate it once more.

Dare Diamond..Sir..

A multifilar Primary wire on one Electromagnet has to be connected in serial first to make the single primary coil. Let us say it is P1.

You wind separate P1, P2.P3 etc..These primaries are connected in parallel. I think you would need four Primaries. Try to see that the following is ensured.

Four Primaries

Three secondaries.

Secondaries are 2/3rd the length and diameter of the primary. Secondary wire is wound just to cover the core of the primary.

Magnetism in Each Primary core must be in the region of 0.3 to 0.4 Tesla. Not more. Secondary will have higher Magnetism.

Do not put any wire under the Primary coil. Let us check the Figuera design first.

Each Primary has double the Weight of the core of the secondary.

In Each Primary Current either moves towards the central secondary placed in between or moves away simultanously.

The arrangment will be like this..

P1----->S1<------P2<----S2----->P3------>S3<--------P4

followed by

P1<-----S1------>P2----->S2<-----P3<------S3-------->P4

Here S2 is placed in between the poles of the P2 and P3. S2 is the bonus secondary coil..

Secondaries are connected in series.

Primary turns are same.. We have seen best output is produced in the secondary when both the primaries are equal in power.

You can put coils under the primary and above the primary as well. Then we can consider the secondary coils under the primary as a step down transformer. Therefore the output of P1S (secondary coil wound in P1 core) is about 90% of the input.

All primaries are connected in parallel

All secondaries are in series..Lenz law is applicable only in P1 coil and P4 coil.

In the rest of the primaries the output of Secondary is higher than the input of Primary and so Lenz law does not apply in P2,P3 and P4 when current goes in one direction from P1 and when reverses direction it is applicable only in P4 and it is not applicable for  P3,P2 and P1 for the secondary coil carries more output than the input of the coil.

Do not allow the iron core to reach saturation. Lenz Law is not applicable when Iron core reaches saturation. But the iron becomes such a powerful magnet that the coil shows strange properties and there is an intense heat and it is neither safe nor sustainable for a long time.

If yo
u are not able to spend for the multifilar wires, then use a small wire 1 sq mm wire but allow 200 to 400 watts of lamps to burn as resistors before the wire goes to the primaries. Let there be adequate number of turns of the wire to ensure that the Magnetism in the primary is about 0.3 to 0.4 Tesla.

There is nothing more to it. It is a simple device. Many variations are possible.

Core: 

I saw your comment again..

Best Answer is provided here..http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Intro.html

My thanks to My Mentor Patrick J Kelly..

See this to answer your comment..

"The Wright brothers were told that it was impossible for aeroplanes to fly because they were heavier than air. That was a commonly believed view. The Wright brothers watched birds flying and since, without question, birds are considerably heavier than air, it was clear that the commonly held view was plain wrong. Working from that realisation, they developed aeroplanes which flew perfectly well.

The years passed, and the technology started by the Wright brothers and their careful scientific measurements and well-reasoned theory, advanced to become the “science” of aeronautics. This science was used extensively to design and build very successful aircraft and “aeronautics” gained the aura of being a “law”.

Unfortunately, somebody applied aeronautic calculations to the flight of bumblebees and discovered that according to aeronautics, bumblebees couldn’t possibly fly as their wings could not generate enough lift to get them off the ground. This was a problem, as it was perfectly possible to watch bees flying in a very competent manner. So, the “laws” of aeronautics said that bees can’t fly, but bees actually do fly.

Does that mean that the laws of aeronautics were no use? Certainly not - those “laws” had been used for years and proved their worth by producing excellent aircraft. What it did show was that the “laws” of aeronautics did not yet cover every case and needed to be extended to cover the way that bees fly, which is through lift generated by turbulent airflow.

It is very important to realise that what are described as scientific “laws” are just the best working theories at the present time and it is virtually certain that those “laws” will have to be upgraded and extended as further scientific observations are made and further facts discovered. Let’s hope those four elephants don’t get restless before we have a chance to learn a bit more!"

Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: darediamond on February 19, 2016, 08:11:04 AM
 OK.
In the single solenoid lensless TrafoGen, if I need 2 secondaries, then 3 primaries must be wound. Now what should be the direction of the Second Secondary when wounding over the second Primary? What also should be the direction of the third primary when winding it over the second Secondary?
Can Spiral Winding be used to make the needed Primaries and Secodaries in this Set-up?
Core:

I have cameras and can take videos and have no problem posting them. But please see my devices are assembled and then disassembled and I need people to come to work for me to do replicate the device.

All punches are welcome here.. All ideas are welcome..Nothing excluded..No problems..You set the rule for determining the OU..How it is to be proved...As far as I'm concerned I think it should be Ok if I use a computer UPS to power about 8000 watts for more than the time the UPS can power them. UPS is 1.1 kilowatt UPS. If I produce from the input of the UPS more than 1100 watts which is not possible for the UPS to be performed you need to agree. Is it fair?  Video yes,..No problems..I do not want to show the construction etc Videos but we will assemble the device and then show the Device powering all 40x200 watts lamps..I think it should satisfy you or any one else. We will check what is the input watts and what is the output watts.

Please let me know how many here have built Magnetic core devices where the core weighs 150 kgms..All seem to play with Electronics..Not Electromagnetics..which is what I have done.

Hanon is correct.. Direction of rotation of current determines the polarity. whether it is AC or DC or Pulsed DC.. In the device tested current rotates in the same direction in the primaries.

I think Marathonman is on record that a working device for 5 kW is already done and is working for one year now. I cannot claim that.

Dare Diamond..Sir..

A multifilar Primary wire on one Electromagnet has to be connected in serial first to make the single primary coil. Let us say it is P1.

You wind separate P1, P2.P3 etc..These primaries are connected in parallel. I think you would need four Primaries. Try to see that the following is ensured.

Four Primaries

Three secondaries.

Secondaries are 2/3rd the length and diameter of the primary. Secondary wire is wound just to cover the core of the primary.

Magnetism in Each Primary core must be in the region of 0.3 to 0.4 Tesla. Not more. Secondary will have higher Magnetism.

Do not put any wire under the Primary coil. Let us check the Figuera design first.

Each Primary has double the Weight of the core of the secondary.

In Each Primary Current either moves towards the central secondary placed in between or moves away simultanously.

The arrangment will be like this..

P1----->S1<------P2----S2-----P3------>S3<--------

followed by

P1<-----S1------>P2-----S2-----P3<------S3-------->

Here S2 is placed in between the poles of the P2 and P3. S2 is the bonus secondary coil..

Secondaries are connected in series.

Primary turns are same.. We have seen best output is produced in the secondary when both the primaries are equal in power.

Regarding the Russian Scientist claim..Who are we honor..Prof. Figuera or the Russian Scientist..I think all who show an innovative spirit and take a move to take the one step forward are to be honored. I think a similar statement was made about an American Author who wrote the Healing is Voltage Book. He indicates that same wave patterns were used in devices made in US much before he or the Russian Scientist made them..So what do we know..Incidentally so far from 2013 no one has given us this information..Language barrier you see...

My Problem is that this is not a regular work for me and we do the experiments once in a month or fortnight. Any one can test the device and let us know what is the result..what is the problem...

The purpose of our providing the information open source is to make others benefit..Only when it is done this work would become useful..I would suggest that let others build the device as indicated and then come back and bomb me after that if they are not able to replicate.
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: NRamaswami on February 19, 2016, 10:24:32 AM
Sir:

It is fairly simple. All wires rotate in the same direction. Primary and secondary. If you want to use three primaries You can send the current from inside to outside. First primary should be wound from top to bottom, second primary from bottom to top and third from top to bottom. Secondary is placed inside the two primaries and connected in series. Primaries are connected in parallel.

You need to realize that closer the secondary is to the core more amperage is generated. While the number of turns of secondary would determine the voltage. Therefore the design is like a Long train. Higher output comes only when the voltage increases in the secondary.

You can use single helical coils for primary. However the number of turns must be high and the impedance sufficiently strong enough to draw low amperage at 220 volts or higher voltage. Primary should be thin wires and secondary should be thick wires. Thick wires have lower AWG or SWG numbers and thin wires have higher numbers.

The purpose is to use a Large Primary magnetic core with a small input. The large electromagnets then move the magnetic field towards the secondary at the same time. Secondary is 1/4th the size of the combined primary weight. Therefore the magnetic field strength in the middle secondary increases by at least four times. When you put the four primaries in the way I indicated you get three secondaries and magnetic field strength increases and decreases in the secondaries. When it increases in S1 and S3, it decreases in S2 and when it decreases in S1 and S3 it increases in S2. Since secondary is in series there is no collapsing of current in secondary at any time. Secondary is always powered.

Backemf is not supposed to come if you magnetic field strength never collapses to zero. Since the coils are continuous it is achieved here without the use of permanent magnets. However if we place steel rods which are once magnetized always remain magnetized in the secondary cores alone it should also benefit.  This I have not tested.

You will need to use thick wires in secondary and wind not more than five layers I guess. Secondary Magnetic field strength should not exceed 1.2 Tesla for the magnetic core of the device not to be heated.

All primaries are in parallel, It is quite difficult for us to use single helical coils to draw low amperage at high voltage unless high frequency is used. High Frequency on the other hand causes the iron core to be heated on its own. Figuera might have used resistors only for that purpose. We have run devices at very high saturation levels but probably because the device core is made up of iron rods with lot of air gap present and is not a single bar we did not suffer from heat problems. Very inefficient construction really but low cost, low tech any one can do construction.

You better do the large iron core construction device indicated. It is safe and you can get good output. We have seen that only up to 9 layers from the core the secondary produces good amperage and up to 12 layers good voltage also comes. But from 12 layers to 16 layers though we have a lot of turns amperage increase is very low and voltage increase is also low. So it is better to use more iron and less wire to achieve a sustainable long lasting device.

If you manage to reach 300 volts plus in secondary you are likely to reach the COP>1. It is quite difficult to achieve it at the low voltages that we did. Some trickery has to be done to deceive the Lenz effect at low voltage levels. We wound the secondary coil on P1 and P2 along with the primary coil itself and so adjacent turns of the secondary were well separated and were not acting against each other. closely wound coils will have one turn trying to cancel the magnetic effect of the next turn and vice versa. This is where thick insulation helps.
 
There is no fancy stuff here. It is so very simple. But it is expensive to build because of the iron core size and the coils needed. Secondly it is all done manually and no winding machines are used by us as on date. So it is a labor intensive process.

If you connect the ends of the secondary wire to two different earth points placed at significant distance higher amperage comes but why it comes is not known to any while theories are dished out..Even earth based batteries that provided an equal voltage and amperage were built as far back as 1893 but were quickly some how ignored or forgotten.

Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: norman6538 on February 19, 2016, 03:55:05 PM
I have studied 40 pages of the previous Figuera forum and made notes and now
I would like to substantiate some of the underling principles before I proceed.

1. flux going through a coil and back will give 4 pulses of current unlike a magnet passing
    a coil gives 2 pulses - AC one hump up and one down.
   I have tested this with a coreless coil and a magnet and its correct.
  I picture the flux going through the coil/core like a shuttlecock in a loom
  going back and forth thus entering/leaving the threads and then
  entering and leaving going back again.

2. Does the like poles repel give more induced coil output as the youtube
    demo said it would? I want to do this myself to make sure it was not
    an error in the testing.
  see this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvVbDQ-z66o&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvVbDQ-z66o&feature=youtu.be)
attracting vs repeling magnets with coil between...
N S max 1.48 volts  S S 8.99.x volts  6 times better

3. Intuitively we reduce the input of a second set because we use the flux out
    of the 2nd primary to feed the 2nd set secondary.

If all 3 are valid then 2 x 2 x 6 gives a coil performance multiplier of 24 or more.

I am working on testing/verifiying 2 above.

4. And many have said that coil geometry will also give additional multipliers
Does anyone have youtubes to verify this?

If these are all valid then I'm ready to build.....

Norman
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: norman6538 on February 19, 2016, 04:12:38 PM
The repel test is valid. much more current output with the
repeling magnets at the ends of the core.


THANKS TO ALL who have contributed so much towards understanding
the Figuera secret......

Norman

this is the test I refer to.

2. Does the like poles repel give more induced coil output as the youtube
    demo said it would? I want to do this myself to make sure it was not
    an error in the testing.
  see this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvVbDQ-z66o&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvVbDQ-z66o&feature=youtu.be)
attracting vs repeling magnets with coil between...
N S max 1.48 volts  S S 8.99.x volts  6 times better
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: norman6538 on February 19, 2016, 05:13:06 PM
Hi Norman,

I am not much of an electrical person,, but I do like mechanical things and I do play with magnets and coils,, and I have played with the setup that was shown in the video.

Yes there is more out,, but there is also a much larger mechanical cost,, the force to move the magnets goes up.

But you missed one of the main points of the patent - no motion and no Lenz
counter to motion force is fighting you. That is a BIG DEAL.

Norman


I have used this effect to drive a motor.
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: NRamaswami on February 19, 2016, 05:38:30 PM
Hi

I am very confused. In Figuera priciple the first thing  that is avoided is motion. I have followed it to the dot. I getutput only when opposote poles are involved. It is a totallymotionless core. No output when secondary  is placed between identical poles.

Experimentally verified. No mechanical motion is involved in Figuera concept which I have further simplified.

sorry I am unable to get identical poles working.

Ramaswami
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: NRamaswami on February 19, 2016, 06:30:39 PM
Dare Diamond and All I think Hanon is closing his thread..

I have alredady received advice to forget this stuff.. See reply No 3140 & 3141 in Hanon thread..

Earlier Dieter and others including Hanon agreed no output between identical poles.. why he changed was not clear to me but is clear now..
I will write one long post tomorrow as to why and how I got in to this..
I think I will have to keep quiet now..sorry about that..

Regards

Ramaswami
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: darediamond on February 19, 2016, 06:39:54 PM
In one Free to Energy Base document I read, opposing poles is what was mentioned to give Real Output in all the named Overunity devices. So Ramaswami claim is True.
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: sm0ky2 on February 19, 2016, 06:42:47 PM
in the solenoid test:

first example:   S<------------------>N   
                            (N-------------S)
The steel rod forms a single di-pole magnet, opposing the permanent magnets.

second example:  S<---------------------->S
                               (N-----S)(S------N)

The steel rod forms two di-pole magnets, opposing the permanent magnets,
   AND opposing itself as a (3rd) pole manifesting near the center of the rod.

You can see the polarity switching on the meter in the video.
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: hanon on February 19, 2016, 11:23:52 PM
Just for clarifying and naming me: power is extracted  between same poles if the magnetic lines collide and are moved back and forth. Therefore you need the Figuera commutator described in the 1908 to create the two unphased signals. TWO signals are required. With AC (one signal) both inducers has always the same magnetic strength, and the magnetic lines do not move, therefore no output. AC was used in the 1902 patent, not in the 1908 patent.

Same poles configuration needs the 1908 commutator and its two signals. Your problem is using AC with same poles configuration. You never understood the commutator and you still do not understand the real function of the commutator. But I do not want to interfere more in this thread. It is just because you named me. I do not have any thread, so dont call it my thread. It is a thread about designs based closely to the designs described in the  patent.

Figuera did what is shown in the video posted before but instead of moving the coils he just moved the fields. As there was no movement of the coils, there was no force opposing the movement, because there is no movement. As simple as that.  For designs based on the simple electromagnets and coil described in Figuera's patents the other thread is the place to post. For Ramaswami device and other designs it is better to post in this thread.
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: core on February 20, 2016, 01:33:55 AM
All punches are welcome here.. All ideas are welcome..Nothing excluded..No problems..You set the rule for determining the OU..How it is to be proved...As far as I'm concerned I think it should be Ok if I use a computer UPS to power about 8000 watts for more than the time the UPS can power them. UPS is 1.1 kilowatt UPS. If I produce from the input of the UPS more than 1100 watts which is not possible for the UPS to be performed you need to agree. Is it fair?  Video yes,..No problems..I do not want to show the construction etc Videos but we will assemble the device and then show the Device powering all 40x200 watts lamps..I think it should satisfy you or any one else. We will check what is the input watts and what is the output watts.

The most important rule is that we just enjoy what we are doing, have fun, and understand that we all may walk a different path but all path's lead to the same place. How about that.

Please let me know how many here have built Magnetic core devices where the core weighs 150 kgms..All seem to play with Electronics..Not Electromagnetics..which is what I have done.
Never in my life, that is impressive, I will not scratch something like that off my list to build. I do have some heavy iron in my garage.

My Problem is that this is not a regular work for me and we do the experiments once in a month or fortnight. Any one can test the device and let us know what is the result..what is the problem...

I think that's that same for all of us. I work a minimum 60 hours a week. Tough to build and experiment when your exhausted. Not to mention there is always something around the house that needs attention first.

The purpose of our providing the information open source is to make others benefit..Only when it is done this work would become useful..I would suggest that let others build the device as indicated and then come back and bomb me after that if they are not able to replicate.

I believe the work is vast, there has been many individuals that have achieved success the last 100 years. So I am a firm believer that there is more then one way to skin a cat (American saying) Those that can build need to get involved, those that can think outside the box also need to get involved.


- Core
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: core on February 20, 2016, 02:10:23 AM

2. Does the like poles repel give more induced coil output as the youtube
    demo said it would? I want to do this myself to make sure it was not
    an error in the testing.
  see this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvVbDQ-z66o&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvVbDQ-z66o&feature=youtu.be)
attracting vs repeling magnets with coil between...
N S max 1.48 volts  S S 8.99.x volts  6 times better

If these are all valid then I'm ready to build.....

Norman

Norman, give it a shot, we have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I am looking forward you seeing the progress of your build! As always, all builds welcome here. please keep us updated on the status.

-Core
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: core on February 20, 2016, 02:14:02 AM
In one Free to Energy Base document I read, opposing poles is what was mentioned to give Real Output in all the named Overunity devices. So Ramaswami claim is True.

If I recall correctly it was Hanon who made the claim first. Also I recall NRam trying nut not getting any good results. But it looks like Norman will be giving it a shot.

- Core
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: core on February 20, 2016, 02:25:16 AM
Earlier Dieter and others including Hanon agreed no output between identical poles.. why he changed was not clear to me but is clear now..
I will write one long post tomorrow as to why and how I got in to this..
I think I will have to keep quiet now..sorry about that..

Regards

Ramaswami

Ok, but lets concentrate on the build, and in particular, outside the box thinking, that will allow us to achieve a common goal. You have written a lot as to why you got into this on the other thread. Why not just provide a link for the new members to your other posts.

Let's not be so quick to celebrate ourselves.

- Core

Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: NRamaswami on February 20, 2016, 09:52:32 AM
Core:

I have never disclosed how I got in to this..here..

All my posts on the Generator are posted only in the Figuera thread http://overunity.com/12794/re-inventing-the-wheel-part1-clemente_figuera-the-infinite-energy-machine/#.VsgjcPl97IU

The device is like a lot of large and small electromagnets or solenoids placed one after the other. The large solenoids act as a step down transformer where the secondary coil is wound along with the primary coil and turns of secondary coil have distances between each other. Primary coil is a multifilar coil. Primary coil can also be a single small high resistance wire if you can put a lot of lamps high resistance low current drawing lamps before the current comes to activate the primary coils.

a. The primary coils can be connected in series, so that the current always flows in the same direction and moves always in the same direction.

b. The primary coils can be  connected in parallel so that the current always flows in the same direction and moves always in the same direction.

c. The Primary coil can also be connected in series so that the current moves away from the center and then moves towards the central secondary coil.

d. The primary coil can again be connected in parallel so that the current moves away from the center and then moves towards the central secondary coil.

The best mode comes when d is used. COP>1 can be achieved when C or d are used.

The most important thing is that we must control the current. Lower the amperage Higher the voltage better is the result. 

I have used multifilar coils 12 filar coils to be precise to reduce the amperage drawn from 220 volts to power two primary coils connected in parallel. amperage drawn was only 0.15 amps. Very mild magnetism in the two primaries each weighing 60 kgms. The secondary core weighs about 30 kgms. The secondary core is able to light lamps 10x200 watts lamps on its own but at 28.3 volts. When we connect the secondaries wound under the two primaries the voltage increased to about 49.3 volts if I remember correctly. Amperage in secondary was 1.05 amps. Secondary alone provided about 28 watts I remember. If you have four such primaries and three such secondaries you are bound to have cop>1 automatically.

Amperage is based on what is the weight of magnetized iron core we are using. Voltage depends on how many turns and what is the magnetic field strength of the secondary.

Beyond that there is nothing. You have indicated that you have never ever used large iron cores. The secret if there is any is in creating the bonus secondary coils that this design provides and the amount of magnetized iron core and using thick secondary coils. It appears that sparks contain high voltage and high frequency and low amperage. So I would expect that if the output from a Tesla coil is to hit the primary input point and the primary output points go to earth a lot of current can be produced. Wild guess at that. Nothing more.

Unfortunately none of the friends who communicated with me would respond to my emails. I would kind of retire from this field.

Regarding the 1908 Figuera Patent I'm unable to understand it. We are not willing to use a battery to provide the power source as battery can provide a lot of amperage. We have seen wires once connected to battery refuse to come out and kind of melt..Also I would think that any electromagnet taking power from a battery would become a permanent magnet immediately. So I'm unable to understand much on the Figuera device of 1908. Unfortunately I do not know theory nor am I trained and so I can only do the experiments and see the observations.

We are always able to light lamps when a lot of iron is used in the secondary core. Not knowing any thing I might have done some thing..

I have nothing more to write..Thank you all.

Regards,

Ramaswami
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: cliff33 on February 20, 2016, 09:54:26 PM
Hi all:
  I do a lot of reading but little posting,but I thought that people should
know some of the basic facts of this device.
  We do know that the device was putting out 15 kw of power at 550 volts.
Therefore the current rating had to be 15000/550= 27.25 amps.
 For this amount of amperage, wire size would probably be around #10awg.
Car batteries back then were all 6 volt & power line frequency was 25hertz.
If we assume he used 2 batteries in series to pulse the primary coils, and the
coils had about 200 turns each of #18 wire then:

1.voltage ratio would be 550/12=45.8

2.We know turns ratio has to be the same: 200 X 45.8 = 9160 turns on secondary.
making wire length 1350 ft.

3.Assuming a coil length of 3 in. The diameter of primary would be 1.25 in.
Diameter of secondary = 3.25 in. The "C" section would need a spacing of 4.5 in.

4.The longer the c section, the longer the path for the magnetic flux which would lessen the efficiency.
  Don't leave a large empty space between the 2 coils.

5. The outer layers of a large coil will receive a lesser amount of flux than
do the inner layers.

6. Iron cores at 25hz would have to be far larger than than those for 60hz. 
 
So these are some of the reasons why Figuera used 7 units. Each unit putting out about 78 volts.
 I still firmly believe we can get overunity with only one unit by reducing output voltage,using
smaller wire,and shortening the flux path. The greatest reluctance is in those 4 air spaces, so
we should keep them as thin as possible.
  Secondary coil length depends on no. of primary turns. So for multiple units wire those in parallel.
Once we can prove the concept, then we can go on to larger or multiple units.
I made up a spread-sheet pgm so I could juggle all these parameters around and know what's happening.

Just my views and something to think about.
 
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: NRamaswami on February 21, 2016, 01:31:48 AM
Cliff33

With due respect your calculation shows that each secondary coil had a length of 7 metres tobe afely operated at 1.3 Tesla Magnetic field strength.

Then there are 7 such secondaries.

In the other thread forest has given a calculation based on 1000 volts 1 amp input.

From my practical experience your figures look way off.

I of course used 220 volts and 15 amps input and output of 300 volts 10 amps.

can you calculate for 220 volts and 5 amps input and 220 volts and 84 amps output
That will enable us to use 7*4 sq mm wiresin parallel to carry 12 amps each.

Can you calculate for 220 volts and 5 amps input and output of
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: core on February 21, 2016, 05:32:05 AM

I of course used 220 volts and 15 amps input and output of 300 volts 10 amps.


How is this COP>1

-Core
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: NRamaswami on February 21, 2016, 07:35:39 AM
Ah...Friend please look at what I said is the COP>1 input and output values. I have done a lot of experiments and not all of them are COP>1. Only three of them were. Out of that two were not acceptable. In our 2013 experiment we gave the power out to the ground and so the University Professor has plainly rejected it and treated secondary as a shunted coil and accepted only the amperage. Not the voltage. Second time we had a COP>1 current did not come out and the magnet was so strong and current could not move out of the wires to the lamps. That was weird. So we went on to build Safe, Repeatable and sustainable build. We have got it only once now but we now know the mechanism.

The info was given to indicate that the calculation by our other friend was not correct. Please see it in that context.

I have just found out because I'm a dummy some fact that is contrary to accepted wisdom. USPTO asks for devices that can be demonstrated to grant a patent when such a claim is made. If such devices are given normal practice is to issue to a national security order and direct the person to keep quiet. The Hubbard device is one such example. Moray device is another example. This is why I put info in to public domain.

You need to learn to look at the Electromagnetic spectrum. You see we are living forms or living organisms who exist only in the visible band of electromagnetic spectrum..Whatever we can see or perceive has to be in that spectrum. The exception is air for we are able to perceive air.
So we accept the presence of air.

Now think about this..We cannot see any thing in the invisible spectrum..Does it mean that life forms cannot exist in the other regions of EM spectrum? They do exist. Some unfortunate people like me have the power to occasionally see or hear them. I started my experiments due to one such encounter..I have suffered enormously since starting this project..I'm aware that no one would do the kind of foolish things that I have done. But the results are there. So I'm sharing them.

I have not written about every experiment that I did or every device I tested. I'm becoming very weak and have had chest pains many times.

The device can be built with about 2000 kgms of iron I think. This is for safety of operation. Low Magnetic field strength of primaries focusing on the secondary to generate higher magnetic field strength but still lower than the saturation value and safe value and large enough iron to produce a substantial output.

We have already learnt that if we saturate the core very high magnetism comes and electrical output is not coming out of the core. It can be made to come out but I'm concerned that it can be a dangerous operation. So safe, Repeatable and sustainable operations are the goals now. First one is found. Second one will have to be done by another team in another country to check if they also get the same results and they will take their own time and then I have to run the device for one month continuously using a UPS and then continuously powering the UPS and other loads. Only then my Mentors here would even acknowledge it.

So I'm just checking if any other team would agree to do it..It is in public domain and no personal profit motive is allowed.

Please check the COP>1 values..Input was 33 watts and output was 50 watts approximately. It has sufficient amperage to light up 10x200 lamps. Same digital Ammeter was used to take the primary and secondary readings. In any case I need to build two more primaries and two more secondaries and add another 180 Kgm of iron to it to ensure that no reading mistakes are there. We will then need to see up to what level input amperage can be increased without the middle core getting in to saturation problems.

Further work is there on this. But there is no intention to make money out of this effort.
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: cliff33 on February 21, 2016, 07:35:39 PM
Cliff33

With due respect your calculation shows that each secondary coil had a length of 7 metres tobe afely operated at 1.3 Tesla Magnetic field strength.

Then there are 7 such secondaries.

In the other thread forest has given a calculation based on 1000 volts 1 amp input.

From my practical experience your figures look way off.

I of course used 220 volts and 15 amps input and output of 300 volts 10 amps.

can you calculate for 220 volts and 5 amps input and 220 volts and 84 amps output
That will enable us to use 7*4 sq mm wiresin parallel to carry 12 amps each.

Can you calculate for 220 volts and 5 amps input and output of

Ya, made a mistake on secondary wire length. Should be closer to 3000 feet (914m).
Actual length is (no. of turns X core circumference). And of course that changes for different sizes of wire.
Circumference increases with each layer of wire.

RE: the 220 volt 12 amp calculation. You have to know how much power the load is drawing.
For Figuera's device we already know the power of the load is 15000 kilowatts. We also know he wanted 550 volts out.
Therefore the amps out would be (15000/550) = 27.2
From this we can get the wire size needed. To just calculate 220 volt 12 amp is doing things in reverse.
I am just using arbitrary figures for primary turns & input voltage (have to start somewhere).
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: NRamaswami on February 22, 2016, 12:30:28 AM
Core:

Thanks for the kind words on the Rule..I totally agree..

Cliff33:

Thank you for accepting my suggestion which shows how magnanimous you are.

My estimation is as follows.

Each Primary core had a length of 1 meter and secondary core 0.5 meter.

The output was 110 volts and 14 amps per wire in a 10 core cable. That would give us about 1.4 Tesla in the secondary coil. Since the core is made up of soft iron rods with air gap this is ok.

I estimate that this would result in about 10 turns per secondary and each secondary was rated to generate about 15-17 volts. This would have produced the 110 volts needed to make the devices of that era work. 110x14x10= 15400 watts.

The report indicating 550 volts was intended to show how much a single wire can produce. We need not depend on it. I have produced 620 volts and 20 amps in a 4 sq mm wire in a much smaller device but that was saturated and would not work long time. Figuera device with the low magnetic field strength and large core size would have worked perfectly well without heating issues and without maintenance issues. That is key.

I find all calculate for high amperages without taking this in to account. sustainability would not come at when the core is heated. Transformers operate at 1.2 tesla and this is why they work for long time.

The total length of each module would therefore have been 2.5 meters or about 7 feet and having seven or eight such cores to generate so much of power in an island generation station is nothing.

To the contrary Buforn style of operation would have required less for the core is a continuous core and since the secondary is serially connected it would have been simultaneously subjected to strong and weak effects at the same time. I concede that this is the same principle taught in the first patent as well but when the core is straight we have seen the best results.

It is possible to reduce the core size but the higher amperages require a diameter of at least 4 to 6 inches. Safe operations require a lot of iron.

I think about 2000 kgms of iron would be needed to do this device but the coiling is simple.

No efficiency when high amperage and low votlage is used. No efficiency when high voltage and high frequency is used. Iron would be heated so much at both times. So I came up with the multifilar options for wires which I think is correct.
Title: Inductorium
Post by: core on February 22, 2016, 03:03:15 AM
Found an old generator patent from 1891. It's not OU and its not meant to be. What is interesting is the usage of what they call a "Inductorium" aslo known as an "Electric converter" to defeat counter electro-motive force. This is a simple generator and makes for an easy read. Here is a quote from the patent:

Quote
The two currents being generated in coils placed at right angles to each other will have there phases ninety degrees apart. I have discovered that when two currents having their phases ninety degrees apart traverse separate coils of an electric converter they tend to mutually destroy the counter electro-motive force or self-induction of each other.

When, therefore, currents traverse the coil c2 the effective counter electro-motive force or self induction opposed to the passage of current through the coil c1 is diminished and more current is allowed to flow through that coil.


Whats your opinion on the usage of the Inductorium to defeat Lenz, Counter EMF.



-Core
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: NRamaswami on February 22, 2016, 04:42:59 AM
Core:

My apologies..

If that was addressed to me, I have to tell you that I'm neither qualified nor competent not privileged to answer that. Because the simple truth is that I do not know these things.

I have done experiments on two devices.

1. Hubbard device - Total failure

2. Figuera Device - Partial Success.

3. Ramaswami Device - We did not have money to build additional modules. So I thought why don't we wind secondary on the primary as well and that is how we made it.

4. We originally used step down transformers but they fused out and were very expensive for us and so we started giving from the mains. We first controlled the current by using lamps as resistive loads and when that was not sufficient we realized that making a bifilar coil reduces the current drawn and so went on to build trifilar, quadfilar etc. We now use 12 filar 2.5 sq mm wires and the current drawn is reduced considerably. A 11 filar coil reduces the current drawn at 220 volts to 0.5 amp and 12 filar to 0.15 and a 13 filar appears to draw very little current and is not satisfactory.

5. Regarding your query I'm unable to understand it or answer it. I do not give theoretical answers. I have tried to do that. When we studied we did not have calculators and so we had to memorize the tables in Mathematics and we memorize a lot. So I have simulated in my mind what would happen if do x and y and whenever we are very confident a certain result would come up it does not come up. Magnets teach us to be humble.

6. I apologize. I cannot answer this question. Not clear to me how and why the current should behave in a certain way. One is produced in East and other is produced in North and both of them are sent through another place. Their phases may be different but how they would interact and what would be the consequence must be experimented, ascertained and only then we can make any statement on it. We cannot take a wild guess at it..This is dangerous business of Electricity.

7. I do not know how motors and Generators work. I do not know any Electrical repair work and we call the Electrician if we need any maintenance work.

I apologize that I cannot make some false statements without knowing what would happen. Sorry. Please do the experiment yourself and find out. I do not have the means here for those things.

I can only give the result of the experiments I have conducted for I know what are the readings and values. You can say your meters are wrong and your measurements are wrong. No problem but I can only tell you what I see in the meter.

I do not theorize. It does not work in my experience. Experimental Results and verification is the key.

Regards,

Ramaswami

Title: Re: Inductorium
Post by: core on February 22, 2016, 05:17:06 AM
Found an old generator patent from 1891. It's not OU and its not meant to be. What is interesting is the usage of what they call a "Inductorium" aslo known as an "Electric converter" to defeat counter electro-motive force. This is a simple generator and makes for an easy read. Here is a quote from the patent:

Quote from: core
The two currents being generated in coils placed at right angles to each other will have there phases ninety degrees apart. I have discovered that when two currents having their phases ninety degrees apart traverse separate coils of an electric converter they tend to mutually destroy the counter electro-motive force or self-induction of each other.

When, therefore, currents traverse the coil c2 the effective counter electro-motive force or self induction opposed to the passage of current through the coil c1 is diminished and more current is allowed to flow through that coil.


Whats your opinion on the usage of the Inductorium to defeat Lenz, Counter EMF.



-Core





I posted this for the entire group. Should members have time to read the patent I would like to know there opinion on the quoted section above written in the patent.
The Inductorium is built on an iron ring with one coil being of fine wire and the other being of thick wire.

-Core
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: NRamaswami on February 22, 2016, 07:56:16 PM
Core:

There is some thing strange there..Daniel McFarland Cook used thin primaries and thick secondaries and indicated he achieved a self oscillating Electromagnetic battery. This patent indicates similarly. In the Ramaswami device we use thin multifilar primary wires and thick secondary wires. Pity we are not yet able to test with 25 sq mm wire secondary and 1 sq mm wire multifilar primary.

There is definitely some thing there. For example in the simple solenoid experiment I suggested where the primary and secondary were of the same dia both 4 sq mm we had an inner 12 layer secondary and reached 300 volts and 10 amps and outer quadfilar 4 sq mm primary and reached 220 volts and 15 amps input. It still bugs me what would happen if I put a lot of thick plastic insulation over the primary and then surround it with very thick copper plates and then connect one output wire of secondary to the copper plate. copper plate would have already been charged due to electrostatic induction. It is not a capacitor and so would not draw power from the primary but when the secondary is connected the secondary amperage would go up very sizeably. Primary is between the two secondaries and when we studied this with a small solenoid we had obtained COP=1.16 to 1.05 but I disregarded them as meter error.

You can try this. Wind the secondary inside the primary and wind the primary outside but secondary also be wound along with the primary and then wind the secondary outside as well. This is a step up transformer as the number of turns are higher. But if the secondary is thick wire and primary is thin multifilar wire then COP>1 result should come easily for this experiment.

If you look at it we do not have a step up transformer where the secondary has thicker wires and primary has thinner wires. probably the results would contradict theory and so it is not included. You can study this type of winding.

In this case also I find after you have pointed out the similarity that one wire is thinner and the other wire is thicker. I would guess that the output wire was thicker. But the patent claims are different. I will study this patent carefully but I lack knowledge here.

I will ask the Electrical student to study it. He can ask his college to fund this experiment.

Regards,

Ramaswami
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: core on February 23, 2016, 02:59:36 AM

In this case also I find after you have pointed out the similarity that one wire is thinner and the other wire is thicker. I would guess that the output wire was thicker. But the patent claims are different. I will study this patent carefully but I lack knowledge here.

I will ask the Electrical student to study it. He can ask his college to fund this experiment.

Regards,

Ramaswami

Actually, I think you have it backwards. Coil C2 has the thicker wire and that feeds the load. One armature coil feeds the other side of the inductorium and that is the thinner wire C1.

What is interesting is that it appears that Lenz Law is being used to regulate the current to the load in a clever way. Lenz is reduced allowing more current to the load and then increased when the load changes. That is the initial impression I am getting.

If I am not mistaken I believe Figueras device also has both phases 90 degrees apart. When the (N) electromagnet is at full strength (1/4 wave) the (S) electromagnet is at zero. When (N) electromagnet is at 180 degrees the (S) electromagnet is at 90 degrees. Do I have this right?

I am defiantly putting this inductorium on my list of items to investigate.

-Core
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: core on February 23, 2016, 03:14:05 AM
This shouldn't be too hard to convert from mechanical unit to a pure electrical one.

Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: NRamaswami on February 23, 2016, 10:21:35 AM
Core:

My funds are low. I have one and only priority now. To build two more primaries and two more secondaries.

Please show how the mechanical device can be converted to a motionless electrical device. We will try to build it here if possible. PM me for the detailed instructions. Let us see.

Also I'm not able to understand the 90 degrees and 180 degrees etc..I do not have that much of knowledge in Electrical Science or Electrical Engineering. We simply wind coils and check it it will work or not. What works we pick up from there and proceed. I do not want to corrupt my thought process by reading theories that have not worked to mimic what nature does routinely. So I'm not reading any books. The only things where I have followed the books is to put a fuze to prevent excess current flow and put a earth points. Rest of the ideas are based on what can work and what cannot work as experimentally verified by us. So I'm sorry I do not know about phases and waves. That has not gone into my mind some how.

In whatever frequency output comes if it is substantially higher than the input then the original input can be replaced and the device can be made to run on its own. Safety, sustainability and any one can repeat kind of experimental verification with full detailed construction notes so any one can use low tech, low skills and low cost material to construct the device to be put in to public domain is the goal. Let us see if it can be done. I think I can do it. Let us see..
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: core on March 05, 2016, 05:34:33 AM
Motionless based on reply #47. The capacitor is used to create a 90 degree phase offset. There are many possibilities with this design. This is just one. The core is very complex to build and many here will not have the machine tools available.

- Core
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: core on March 05, 2016, 07:09:32 AM
Here is a simplified diagram. Self exciting generator. Same as above but simplified.

- Core
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: core on March 06, 2016, 03:58:46 AM
If you can get your hands on that green Russian transformer it would be an EZ build. Here we have the same design.

- Core
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: NRamaswami on March 06, 2016, 10:42:50 AM
Core:

Heavy Litigation work on hand..I'm not able to understand much.

We build everything by hand. It appears that principles are all common.

You build a large core of small magnetic strength. Then compress that magnetic field and focus it on a small area and keep lot of turns of thick wire in that small concentrated magnetic field area. Magnetic field strength is higher there.  And you add more of same type of modules. A straight pole structure enables us to get bonus secondary coils here and at one point of time we have the output in excess of the input. For the output is generated when current moves in the primary in both directions. All secondaries connected in series get alternatively higher and lower magnetic flux. The combined output of secondary is based on the thickness of the secondary wire and the number of turns and the magnetic field strength of the focused area.

This requires a lot of iron. Lot turns of of thick secondary wires and lot of turns of thin primary wires. There is no ratio of turns here. Secondary turns are in fact lower than primary turns but thick secondary with lot of turns produces both voltage and amperage.

This is easier to build but quite a large device and so expensive to build. Easier to understand and implement. I do not understand how the feedback or exciting coil part works. I may be able to complete this only by the end of this month.

I will post pictures and results when I complete. I have another concept that requires testing. quite a lot of significant testing. So I'm unable to write on it without testing.

 
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: core on March 07, 2016, 03:46:34 AM
Self Feeding Generator:

The original patent drawing showed a generator with a outside prime mover, most likely a motor. There are two sets of coils 90 Degrees apart, this is nothing original or ground breaking. As you can see from the patent that one set of coils goes back to feed the inducer coils (fields coils). The second set of coils feeds the load devices. With just that said there is nothing special about the device. Actually self-exciting dynamo's had been very popular back then. There are numerous patents from the era that are wired in a similar manor.

What is interesting about this patent is the device refereed to as an Electric Converter. This by no means is this a complex device, it is in essence a simple iron core device with two winding's. According to the patent holder when two phases separated by 90 degrees passes the converter, Back EMF is destroyed. So one can say that this is a Lenz killer? Could this really be this simple? I have yet to try this, I have moved it to the top of my list of things to do. If what the patent holder states is true then building a motionless generator is as simple as pie.

In my drawings I remove the need of a prime mover and achieve the results by adding a capacitor to one of the inducer coils. In a capacitor Current leads voltage by 90 degrees. In an inductive circuit Voltage leads Current by 90 degrees. This combination creates the same effect as a rotating device. In my device the same Torque, as seen in a motor, is created by implementing a capacitor as shown. The only difference is that this device has no prime mover.

Having created the same magnetic torque the next step is to remove the Back EMF as the patent states. Here I do as shown in the patent drawing, an iron core with both winding's coiled through it. Both coils are separated by 90 degrees, so when the Voltage of Phase B is at 90 degrees the Current of Phase A is at 90 degrees. The picture below illustrates this.

I have yet to try this but plan to move on it soon.

- Core
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: NRamaswami on March 07, 2016, 02:52:16 PM
Core

I checked the last drawing. I think the output wire is surrounded by the thin wire. Is that correct or is the output wire and the thin wire are wound separately in parallel.

In a circular ring the winding would be CW in one side and CCW in another side. But on a straight pole if we wind the thin wire over the output or secondary wire it will match in phase with the primary. Any loss in current can be made up by the capacitor bank as shown by you naturally.

I have tried this without the capacitor bank but that was not successful but will now try with a capacitor bank. We will need a varistor to control the feedback voltage and a fuse to control the current flowing back to the primary.

How do we excite the coil arrangement then?

I have now built three large secondary cores for the Figuera device. Expect it to generate about 8000 watts output but will need to see. Will need to build four large iron cores for primary. Due to my lack of knowledge I'm not able to build small size devices though they should be perfectly doable.
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: core on March 13, 2016, 10:58:52 PM
I have simplified the circuit even more, the below image is basically identical to all the others I have posted.
I put together an experimental unit in less then an hour out of scrap material I had lying around. The primary iron core with the two coils is 5/8 thick and 3.5 inches long. On this core, as you can see, there are two coils. They are labeled coil A and coil B. Coil A is 6 Ohms and Coil B is 36 Ohms.

I didn't have a light bulb socket so I used a multi-tap transformer as a simple load. This is shown in the drawing as C.  Item J is a Jumper wire that allowed me do disconnect the load. Input voltage to the circuit is 110 volts (Mains)
Points U1, U2, X1, X2, P1, P2 are measurement points. The capacitor shown in the circuit is a Run Capacitor from a motor rated at 35 uf.

I conducted a few simple tests on this setup. I will openly say that I did not spend much time taking measurements so I leave open the possibility of error on my end. I will conduct these tests again next week taking more time for measurements. Temperature of the iron core was only taken with my finger. Next time I will use a meter. Honestly, I didn't understand the readings so I will have to re-do everything because the reading make no-sense to me.

Here are the results:

Test 1
With 110 volts applied only to coil B and coil A disconnected the amperage at P1 & P2 was 1.5 Amps. Core heating was warm, no saturation or buzzing sound.

Comment: This is what I expected. A simple solenoid setup.

-------------------------------------

Test 2
With 110 volts applied to coil B and coil A introduced as shown in the picture. The JUMPER is connected between U1 & U2. Amperage taken at P2 dropped to 1.0 amp. The iron core heated up quickly and so did the winding on coil B. There was a slight buzz coming from the iron core suggesting saturation. Coil A does not heat up at all.

Comment: Wasn't expecting total system amps to drop. With coil A being only 6 ohms I was expecting amps to increase do to additional work being performed. 
-------------------------------------

Test 3
With 110 volts applied to coil B and coil A introduced as shown in the picture. The JUMPER is removed between U1 & U2. This introduces the transformer as a simple load to the circuit. Here the readings really get strange.
The voltage at U1 & U2 is 233 Volts. The multi-tap transformer is wired for a 110 Volt primary. The circuit amps at P1 are 3.1 amps. The circuit amps at P2 are 1.5 amps (Huh?) The output voltage of the transformer is 44 Volts.
The iron core is buzzing louder then all other tests and amazingly only the X2 side is Hot. It is so hot you can't touch it at all. The X1 side is only warm and you can keep your finger on it for some time. The winding of coil B are too hot to touch while coil A are not even warm.

Comment:
Lots of interesting things happening here. I can only suspect that the reason i am getting 233 Volts at the transformer points U1 & U2 is because I am reading a poly-phase due to the capacitor. However I would expect to read this after the capacitor and to the P1 point and not to ground.

What is really bizarre is how only the X2 part of the iron core got super hot (too hot to touch) and yet the X1 side I was able to touch. Does this imply that Eddy currents in the iron had been reduced on the X1 side?

Stranger still are the amp readings. Amps at P1 should of been the same at P2. Total circuit amps at the P2 point are only half. I don't understand how that can be possible, what happened to the other 1.6 amps in the circuit??? The neutral side of the circuit, as wired, should hold the total circuit amps.

-------------------------------------------------

Test 4
This time I rewired the capacitor to feed coil B and wired coil A directly. The unit will not run as it trips the breaker. The buzzing from the core before tripping is horrendous. No readings could be taken as unit operation could not be sustained.


End of all tests.



Next week I will make an attempt to re-do all these tests. There are some anomalies here that may be operator error. The core heating on one side only is legit. Next week I will use an infra-red temperature sensor to get actual readings. The amp readings on the last test can't be accurate at all. They make no sense but I will verify next time.

One issue I have is that coil B in all tests, except test 1, heats up rapidly. Not sure what is causing this. I would expect some heating but this appeared abnormal. I also plan on using a load such as a light bulb or a small motor to see what the effects are.

Until next week.

- Core
 
 


Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: FatBird on March 15, 2016, 10:21:05 PM
                                                                                                                                                        .
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 15, 2016, 02:14:57 AM
Hi..

This is a new thread..

No Patents..Possible Improvements to known or imagined Devices of Electricity Generator Device

What is a self running Electricity Generator Device

You start the Generator with a small current and then ignore it. Generator produces the current needed to excite it and keep it running and also produces useful electricity output..

Tariel Kapanadze device is one such device shown on Youtube..

Other claimed Devices are Figuera Device, Hubbard Device, Hendershot Device, Daniel McFarland Cook Device, Ed Gray Device, Dr. Moray Device, Cater Device..

I have not studied any of them. However I have tested and produced with my limited knowledge COP>1 devices and so I know it is possible.

There are other rumoured devices..This is an open sesame thread.. Any one can post any ideas..Information,Misinformation, Diverting information any and all are welcome..

So Post all your comments here now..The problem is since I do not know any thing and I am neither qualified in this subject I will neither be impressed nor worried nor careless nor careful about any statements unless they are shown with the proof of the workind device.. Videos welcome. Mode of construction welcome..But all open source information only..

Only thing that is required is SRS Qualification of the Device.

Safety
Repeatability
Sustainability

and of course Low cost Low tech manufacturing techniquies. Least amount of parts needed so people on shoe string budget also can do them are the kind of things needed. Please post..


I need to know if this is a big deal or not:  My partner and i have made a very simple self sustained generator that keeps charging twin series connected 1.2 amp hr 12 volt batteries  for 8.5 hours straight. """The batteries power their own recharging."""  There is however one expensive component that needs purchased so the generator will power itself for a much longer time. Perhaps weeks.   Anything like this completed already??
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: Void on April 15, 2016, 03:13:33 PM
I need to know if this is a big deal or not:  My partner and i have made a very simple self sustained generator that keeps charging twin series connected 1.2 amp hr 12 volt batteries  for 8.5 hours straight. """The batteries power their own recharging."""  There is however one expensive component that needs purchased so the generator will power itself for a much longer time. Perhaps weeks.   Anything like this completed already??

Hi magnetman12003. Mr J. Bedini has various battery charging circuits which I think he claims
can be over unity. I think you would have to provide some more details before anyone could
comment on what you are doing. Two 1.2 AH batteries could run a circuit for quite a long time before
needing recharging, depending on the current draw of the circuit. You say your setup is self-sustained,
but you also mention it ran for 8.5 hours. That doesn't sound like it is self sustaining then.
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: norman6538 on April 15, 2016, 04:13:30 PM
Check this for a self sustaining no moving parts generator patent.

http://overunity.com/12794/re-inventing-the-wheel-part1-clemente_figuera-the-infinite-energy-machine/msg480785/#msg480785

Norman
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: core on April 18, 2016, 03:37:06 AM
Check this for a self sustaining no moving parts generator patent.

http://overunity.com/12794/re-inventing-the-wheel-part1-clemente_figuera-the-infinite-energy-machine/msg480785/#msg480785 (http://overunity.com/12794/re-inventing-the-wheel-part1-clemente_figuera-the-infinite-energy-machine/msg480785/#msg480785)

Norman


Really? That thread is a circus and not one person on there understands basic electricity. If they just spend 30 minutes a day studying Maxwell, Faraday and Henry they would realize just how silly there pictures and ideas are.


They have even gone as far as to claim That 100 volts at 1 amp was disclosed I the patent. NOPE it was a well placed lie by one of the members.
In the patent they talk about The Ideal Dynomo. The 100 volts at 1 amp was used as a theoretical value when using the Earth as a dynamo. So in other words it was a theoretical story. However some idiots there think they hit jackpot. I think they are smoking pot.



Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: core on April 18, 2016, 03:40:05 AM
I have concluded, like many before me, that the correct direction to take is in understanding and controlling the electron movement. If you can master this then.............


-Core
Title: Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
Post by: forest on April 18, 2016, 09:44:24 AM
I have concluded, like many before me, that the correct direction to take is in understanding and controlling the electron movement. If you can master this then.............


-Core

I agree. Many many electrons....