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Author Topic: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator  (Read 24297 times)

Offline core

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Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2016, 01:33:55 AM »
All punches are welcome here.. All ideas are welcome..Nothing excluded..No problems..You set the rule for determining the OU..How it is to be proved...As far as I'm concerned I think it should be Ok if I use a computer UPS to power about 8000 watts for more than the time the UPS can power them. UPS is 1.1 kilowatt UPS. If I produce from the input of the UPS more than 1100 watts which is not possible for the UPS to be performed you need to agree. Is it fair?  Video yes,..No problems..I do not want to show the construction etc Videos but we will assemble the device and then show the Device powering all 40x200 watts lamps..I think it should satisfy you or any one else. We will check what is the input watts and what is the output watts.

The most important rule is that we just enjoy what we are doing, have fun, and understand that we all may walk a different path but all path's lead to the same place. How about that.

Please let me know how many here have built Magnetic core devices where the core weighs 150 kgms..All seem to play with Electronics..Not Electromagnetics..which is what I have done.
Never in my life, that is impressive, I will not scratch something like that off my list to build. I do have some heavy iron in my garage.

My Problem is that this is not a regular work for me and we do the experiments once in a month or fortnight. Any one can test the device and let us know what is the result..what is the problem...

I think that's that same for all of us. I work a minimum 60 hours a week. Tough to build and experiment when your exhausted. Not to mention there is always something around the house that needs attention first.

The purpose of our providing the information open source is to make others benefit..Only when it is done this work would become useful..I would suggest that let others build the device as indicated and then come back and bomb me after that if they are not able to replicate.

I believe the work is vast, there has been many individuals that have achieved success the last 100 years. So I am a firm believer that there is more then one way to skin a cat (American saying) Those that can build need to get involved, those that can think outside the box also need to get involved.


- Core

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2016, 01:33:55 AM »

Offline core

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Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2016, 02:10:23 AM »

2. Does the like poles repel give more induced coil output as the youtube
    demo said it would? I want to do this myself to make sure it was not
    an error in the testing.
  see this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvVbDQ-z66o&feature=youtu.be
attracting vs repeling magnets with coil between...
N S max 1.48 volts  S S 8.99.x volts  6 times better

If these are all valid then I'm ready to build.....

Norman

Norman, give it a shot, we have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I am looking forward you seeing the progress of your build! As always, all builds welcome here. please keep us updated on the status.

-Core

Offline core

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Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2016, 02:14:02 AM »
In one Free to Energy Base document I read, opposing poles is what was mentioned to give Real Output in all the named Overunity devices. So Ramaswami claim is True.

If I recall correctly it was Hanon who made the claim first. Also I recall NRam trying nut not getting any good results. But it looks like Norman will be giving it a shot.

- Core

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2016, 02:14:02 AM »
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Offline core

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Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2016, 02:25:16 AM »
Earlier Dieter and others including Hanon agreed no output between identical poles.. why he changed was not clear to me but is clear now..
I will write one long post tomorrow as to why and how I got in to this..
I think I will have to keep quiet now..sorry about that..

Regards

Ramaswami

Ok, but lets concentrate on the build, and in particular, outside the box thinking, that will allow us to achieve a common goal. You have written a lot as to why you got into this on the other thread. Why not just provide a link for the new members to your other posts.

Let's not be so quick to celebrate ourselves.

- Core


Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2016, 09:52:32 AM »
Core:

I have never disclosed how I got in to this..here..

All my posts on the Generator are posted only in the Figuera thread http://overunity.com/12794/re-inventing-the-wheel-part1-clemente_figuera-the-infinite-energy-machine/#.VsgjcPl97IU

The device is like a lot of large and small electromagnets or solenoids placed one after the other. The large solenoids act as a step down transformer where the secondary coil is wound along with the primary coil and turns of secondary coil have distances between each other. Primary coil is a multifilar coil. Primary coil can also be a single small high resistance wire if you can put a lot of lamps high resistance low current drawing lamps before the current comes to activate the primary coils.

a. The primary coils can be connected in series, so that the current always flows in the same direction and moves always in the same direction.

b. The primary coils can be  connected in parallel so that the current always flows in the same direction and moves always in the same direction.

c. The Primary coil can also be connected in series so that the current moves away from the center and then moves towards the central secondary coil.

d. The primary coil can again be connected in parallel so that the current moves away from the center and then moves towards the central secondary coil.

The best mode comes when d is used. COP>1 can be achieved when C or d are used.

The most important thing is that we must control the current. Lower the amperage Higher the voltage better is the result. 

I have used multifilar coils 12 filar coils to be precise to reduce the amperage drawn from 220 volts to power two primary coils connected in parallel. amperage drawn was only 0.15 amps. Very mild magnetism in the two primaries each weighing 60 kgms. The secondary core weighs about 30 kgms. The secondary core is able to light lamps 10x200 watts lamps on its own but at 28.3 volts. When we connect the secondaries wound under the two primaries the voltage increased to about 49.3 volts if I remember correctly. Amperage in secondary was 1.05 amps. Secondary alone provided about 28 watts I remember. If you have four such primaries and three such secondaries you are bound to have cop>1 automatically.

Amperage is based on what is the weight of magnetized iron core we are using. Voltage depends on how many turns and what is the magnetic field strength of the secondary.

Beyond that there is nothing. You have indicated that you have never ever used large iron cores. The secret if there is any is in creating the bonus secondary coils that this design provides and the amount of magnetized iron core and using thick secondary coils. It appears that sparks contain high voltage and high frequency and low amperage. So I would expect that if the output from a Tesla coil is to hit the primary input point and the primary output points go to earth a lot of current can be produced. Wild guess at that. Nothing more.

Unfortunately none of the friends who communicated with me would respond to my emails. I would kind of retire from this field.

Regarding the 1908 Figuera Patent I'm unable to understand it. We are not willing to use a battery to provide the power source as battery can provide a lot of amperage. We have seen wires once connected to battery refuse to come out and kind of melt..Also I would think that any electromagnet taking power from a battery would become a permanent magnet immediately. So I'm unable to understand much on the Figuera device of 1908. Unfortunately I do not know theory nor am I trained and so I can only do the experiments and see the observations.

We are always able to light lamps when a lot of iron is used in the secondary core. Not knowing any thing I might have done some thing..

I have nothing more to write..Thank you all.

Regards,

Ramaswami

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2016, 09:52:32 AM »
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Offline cliff33

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Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2016, 09:54:26 PM »
Hi all:
  I do a lot of reading but little posting,but I thought that people should
know some of the basic facts of this device.
  We do know that the device was putting out 15 kw of power at 550 volts.
Therefore the current rating had to be 15000/550= 27.25 amps.
 For this amount of amperage, wire size would probably be around #10awg.
Car batteries back then were all 6 volt & power line frequency was 25hertz.
If we assume he used 2 batteries in series to pulse the primary coils, and the
coils had about 200 turns each of #18 wire then:

1.voltage ratio would be 550/12=45.8

2.We know turns ratio has to be the same: 200 X 45.8 = 9160 turns on secondary.
making wire length 1350 ft.

3.Assuming a coil length of 3 in. The diameter of primary would be 1.25 in.
Diameter of secondary = 3.25 in. The "C" section would need a spacing of 4.5 in.

4.The longer the c section, the longer the path for the magnetic flux which would lessen the efficiency.
  Don't leave a large empty space between the 2 coils.

5. The outer layers of a large coil will receive a lesser amount of flux than
do the inner layers.

6. Iron cores at 25hz would have to be far larger than than those for 60hz. 
 
So these are some of the reasons why Figuera used 7 units. Each unit putting out about 78 volts.
 I still firmly believe we can get overunity with only one unit by reducing output voltage,using
smaller wire,and shortening the flux path. The greatest reluctance is in those 4 air spaces, so
we should keep them as thin as possible.
  Secondary coil length depends on no. of primary turns. So for multiple units wire those in parallel.
Once we can prove the concept, then we can go on to larger or multiple units.
I made up a spread-sheet pgm so I could juggle all these parameters around and know what's happening.

Just my views and something to think about.
 

Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2016, 01:31:48 AM »
Cliff33

With due respect your calculation shows that each secondary coil had a length of 7 metres tobe afely operated at 1.3 Tesla Magnetic field strength.

Then there are 7 such secondaries.

In the other thread forest has given a calculation based on 1000 volts 1 amp input.

From my practical experience your figures look way off.

I of course used 220 volts and 15 amps input and output of 300 volts 10 amps.

can you calculate for 220 volts and 5 amps input and 220 volts and 84 amps output
That will enable us to use 7*4 sq mm wiresin parallel to carry 12 amps each.

Can you calculate for 220 volts and 5 amps input and output of

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2016, 01:31:48 AM »
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Offline core

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Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2016, 05:32:05 AM »

I of course used 220 volts and 15 amps input and output of 300 volts 10 amps.


How is this COP>1

-Core

Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2016, 07:35:39 AM »
Ah...Friend please look at what I said is the COP>1 input and output values. I have done a lot of experiments and not all of them are COP>1. Only three of them were. Out of that two were not acceptable. In our 2013 experiment we gave the power out to the ground and so the University Professor has plainly rejected it and treated secondary as a shunted coil and accepted only the amperage. Not the voltage. Second time we had a COP>1 current did not come out and the magnet was so strong and current could not move out of the wires to the lamps. That was weird. So we went on to build Safe, Repeatable and sustainable build. We have got it only once now but we now know the mechanism.

The info was given to indicate that the calculation by our other friend was not correct. Please see it in that context.

I have just found out because I'm a dummy some fact that is contrary to accepted wisdom. USPTO asks for devices that can be demonstrated to grant a patent when such a claim is made. If such devices are given normal practice is to issue to a national security order and direct the person to keep quiet. The Hubbard device is one such example. Moray device is another example. This is why I put info in to public domain.

You need to learn to look at the Electromagnetic spectrum. You see we are living forms or living organisms who exist only in the visible band of electromagnetic spectrum..Whatever we can see or perceive has to be in that spectrum. The exception is air for we are able to perceive air.
So we accept the presence of air.

Now think about this..We cannot see any thing in the invisible spectrum..Does it mean that life forms cannot exist in the other regions of EM spectrum? They do exist. Some unfortunate people like me have the power to occasionally see or hear them. I started my experiments due to one such encounter..I have suffered enormously since starting this project..I'm aware that no one would do the kind of foolish things that I have done. But the results are there. So I'm sharing them.

I have not written about every experiment that I did or every device I tested. I'm becoming very weak and have had chest pains many times.

The device can be built with about 2000 kgms of iron I think. This is for safety of operation. Low Magnetic field strength of primaries focusing on the secondary to generate higher magnetic field strength but still lower than the saturation value and safe value and large enough iron to produce a substantial output.

We have already learnt that if we saturate the core very high magnetism comes and electrical output is not coming out of the core. It can be made to come out but I'm concerned that it can be a dangerous operation. So safe, Repeatable and sustainable operations are the goals now. First one is found. Second one will have to be done by another team in another country to check if they also get the same results and they will take their own time and then I have to run the device for one month continuously using a UPS and then continuously powering the UPS and other loads. Only then my Mentors here would even acknowledge it.

So I'm just checking if any other team would agree to do it..It is in public domain and no personal profit motive is allowed.

Please check the COP>1 values..Input was 33 watts and output was 50 watts approximately. It has sufficient amperage to light up 10x200 lamps. Same digital Ammeter was used to take the primary and secondary readings. In any case I need to build two more primaries and two more secondaries and add another 180 Kgm of iron to it to ensure that no reading mistakes are there. We will then need to see up to what level input amperage can be increased without the middle core getting in to saturation problems.

Further work is there on this. But there is no intention to make money out of this effort.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2016, 07:35:39 AM »
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Offline cliff33

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Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2016, 07:35:39 PM »
Cliff33

With due respect your calculation shows that each secondary coil had a length of 7 metres tobe afely operated at 1.3 Tesla Magnetic field strength.

Then there are 7 such secondaries.

In the other thread forest has given a calculation based on 1000 volts 1 amp input.

From my practical experience your figures look way off.

I of course used 220 volts and 15 amps input and output of 300 volts 10 amps.

can you calculate for 220 volts and 5 amps input and 220 volts and 84 amps output
That will enable us to use 7*4 sq mm wiresin parallel to carry 12 amps each.

Can you calculate for 220 volts and 5 amps input and output of

Ya, made a mistake on secondary wire length. Should be closer to 3000 feet (914m).
Actual length is (no. of turns X core circumference). And of course that changes for different sizes of wire.
Circumference increases with each layer of wire.

RE: the 220 volt 12 amp calculation. You have to know how much power the load is drawing.
For Figuera's device we already know the power of the load is 15000 kilowatts. We also know he wanted 550 volts out.
Therefore the amps out would be (15000/550) = 27.2
From this we can get the wire size needed. To just calculate 220 volt 12 amp is doing things in reverse.
I am just using arbitrary figures for primary turns & input voltage (have to start somewhere).

Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2016, 12:30:28 AM »
Core:

Thanks for the kind words on the Rule..I totally agree..

Cliff33:

Thank you for accepting my suggestion which shows how magnanimous you are.

My estimation is as follows.

Each Primary core had a length of 1 meter and secondary core 0.5 meter.

The output was 110 volts and 14 amps per wire in a 10 core cable. That would give us about 1.4 Tesla in the secondary coil. Since the core is made up of soft iron rods with air gap this is ok.

I estimate that this would result in about 10 turns per secondary and each secondary was rated to generate about 15-17 volts. This would have produced the 110 volts needed to make the devices of that era work. 110x14x10= 15400 watts.

The report indicating 550 volts was intended to show how much a single wire can produce. We need not depend on it. I have produced 620 volts and 20 amps in a 4 sq mm wire in a much smaller device but that was saturated and would not work long time. Figuera device with the low magnetic field strength and large core size would have worked perfectly well without heating issues and without maintenance issues. That is key.

I find all calculate for high amperages without taking this in to account. sustainability would not come at when the core is heated. Transformers operate at 1.2 tesla and this is why they work for long time.

The total length of each module would therefore have been 2.5 meters or about 7 feet and having seven or eight such cores to generate so much of power in an island generation station is nothing.

To the contrary Buforn style of operation would have required less for the core is a continuous core and since the secondary is serially connected it would have been simultaneously subjected to strong and weak effects at the same time. I concede that this is the same principle taught in the first patent as well but when the core is straight we have seen the best results.

It is possible to reduce the core size but the higher amperages require a diameter of at least 4 to 6 inches. Safe operations require a lot of iron.

I think about 2000 kgms of iron would be needed to do this device but the coiling is simple.

No efficiency when high amperage and low votlage is used. No efficiency when high voltage and high frequency is used. Iron would be heated so much at both times. So I came up with the multifilar options for wires which I think is correct.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2016, 12:30:28 AM »
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Offline core

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Inductorium
« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2016, 03:03:15 AM »
Found an old generator patent from 1891. It's not OU and its not meant to be. What is interesting is the usage of what they call a "Inductorium" aslo known as an "Electric converter" to defeat counter electro-motive force. This is a simple generator and makes for an easy read. Here is a quote from the patent:

Quote
The two currents being generated in coils placed at right angles to each other will have there phases ninety degrees apart. I have discovered that when two currents having their phases ninety degrees apart traverse separate coils of an electric converter they tend to mutually destroy the counter electro-motive force or self-induction of each other.

When, therefore, currents traverse the coil c2 the effective counter electro-motive force or self induction opposed to the passage of current through the coil c1 is diminished and more current is allowed to flow through that coil.


Whats your opinion on the usage of the Inductorium to defeat Lenz, Counter EMF.



-Core
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 05:19:10 AM by core »

Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2016, 04:42:59 AM »
Core:

My apologies..

If that was addressed to me, I have to tell you that I'm neither qualified nor competent not privileged to answer that. Because the simple truth is that I do not know these things.

I have done experiments on two devices.

1. Hubbard device - Total failure

2. Figuera Device - Partial Success.

3. Ramaswami Device - We did not have money to build additional modules. So I thought why don't we wind secondary on the primary as well and that is how we made it.

4. We originally used step down transformers but they fused out and were very expensive for us and so we started giving from the mains. We first controlled the current by using lamps as resistive loads and when that was not sufficient we realized that making a bifilar coil reduces the current drawn and so went on to build trifilar, quadfilar etc. We now use 12 filar 2.5 sq mm wires and the current drawn is reduced considerably. A 11 filar coil reduces the current drawn at 220 volts to 0.5 amp and 12 filar to 0.15 and a 13 filar appears to draw very little current and is not satisfactory.

5. Regarding your query I'm unable to understand it or answer it. I do not give theoretical answers. I have tried to do that. When we studied we did not have calculators and so we had to memorize the tables in Mathematics and we memorize a lot. So I have simulated in my mind what would happen if do x and y and whenever we are very confident a certain result would come up it does not come up. Magnets teach us to be humble.

6. I apologize. I cannot answer this question. Not clear to me how and why the current should behave in a certain way. One is produced in East and other is produced in North and both of them are sent through another place. Their phases may be different but how they would interact and what would be the consequence must be experimented, ascertained and only then we can make any statement on it. We cannot take a wild guess at it..This is dangerous business of Electricity.

7. I do not know how motors and Generators work. I do not know any Electrical repair work and we call the Electrician if we need any maintenance work.

I apologize that I cannot make some false statements without knowing what would happen. Sorry. Please do the experiment yourself and find out. I do not have the means here for those things.

I can only give the result of the experiments I have conducted for I know what are the readings and values. You can say your meters are wrong and your measurements are wrong. No problem but I can only tell you what I see in the meter.

I do not theorize. It does not work in my experience. Experimental Results and verification is the key.

Regards,

Ramaswami


Offline core

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Re: Inductorium
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2016, 05:17:06 AM »
Found an old generator patent from 1891. It's not OU and its not meant to be. What is interesting is the usage of what they call a "Inductorium" aslo known as an "Electric converter" to defeat counter electro-motive force. This is a simple generator and makes for an easy read. Here is a quote from the patent:

Quote from: core
The two currents being generated in coils placed at right angles to each other will have there phases ninety degrees apart. I have discovered that when two currents having their phases ninety degrees apart traverse separate coils of an electric converter they tend to mutually destroy the counter electro-motive force or self-induction of each other.

When, therefore, currents traverse the coil c2 the effective counter electro-motive force or self induction opposed to the passage of current through the coil c1 is diminished and more current is allowed to flow through that coil.


Whats your opinion on the usage of the Inductorium to defeat Lenz, Counter EMF.



-Core





I posted this for the entire group. Should members have time to read the patent I would like to know there opinion on the quoted section above written in the patent.
The Inductorium is built on an iron ring with one coil being of fine wire and the other being of thick wire.

-Core

Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Self Sustaining Electricity Generator
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2016, 07:56:16 PM »
Core:

There is some thing strange there..Daniel McFarland Cook used thin primaries and thick secondaries and indicated he achieved a self oscillating Electromagnetic battery. This patent indicates similarly. In the Ramaswami device we use thin multifilar primary wires and thick secondary wires. Pity we are not yet able to test with 25 sq mm wire secondary and 1 sq mm wire multifilar primary.

There is definitely some thing there. For example in the simple solenoid experiment I suggested where the primary and secondary were of the same dia both 4 sq mm we had an inner 12 layer secondary and reached 300 volts and 10 amps and outer quadfilar 4 sq mm primary and reached 220 volts and 15 amps input. It still bugs me what would happen if I put a lot of thick plastic insulation over the primary and then surround it with very thick copper plates and then connect one output wire of secondary to the copper plate. copper plate would have already been charged due to electrostatic induction. It is not a capacitor and so would not draw power from the primary but when the secondary is connected the secondary amperage would go up very sizeably. Primary is between the two secondaries and when we studied this with a small solenoid we had obtained COP=1.16 to 1.05 but I disregarded them as meter error.

You can try this. Wind the secondary inside the primary and wind the primary outside but secondary also be wound along with the primary and then wind the secondary outside as well. This is a step up transformer as the number of turns are higher. But if the secondary is thick wire and primary is thin multifilar wire then COP>1 result should come easily for this experiment.

If you look at it we do not have a step up transformer where the secondary has thicker wires and primary has thinner wires. probably the results would contradict theory and so it is not included. You can study this type of winding.

In this case also I find after you have pointed out the similarity that one wire is thinner and the other wire is thicker. I would guess that the output wire was thicker. But the patent claims are different. I will study this patent carefully but I lack knowledge here.

I will ask the Electrical student to study it. He can ask his college to fund this experiment.

Regards,

Ramaswami

 

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