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## Discussion board help and admin topics => Help to access this discussion board => Topic started by: norman6538 on February 05, 2016, 04:33:39 PM

Title: modified simple machine lever shows OU of 200%
Post by: norman6538 on February 05, 2016, 04:33:39 PM
I have made a modified simple machine lever that shows more work out than work in.
I would like someone else to duplicate it and report back on your results and your
thinking.

The modified lever is similar to a 30 inch yardstick with a bicycle spoke for an axle
and at that axle is a 1 inch dowel about 1 inch long centered on the spoke and
glued to the yardstick. It is then balanced so it does not drop to either end.
A string is then tied to the dowel so that when the yardstick drops it pulls the
string up. Then a small weight is hung on the end of the yardstick and a larger
weight is hung on the string. And it is mounted on 2 uprights so it will pivot.

In my case the distance is 15 inches from center to the small weight and 1/2 inch
from the center to the dowel with the string.  The real leverage varies as the
arm drops down because the weight gets closer to the axle. So it starts out with
max leverage and proceeds toward 1:1 leverage. At some point the weights and
leverage will balance out and it will stay in place. When I place a small washer
at the end of the yard stick and 9 larger washers on the string it will drop
down about 40 degrees and lift the large washers. When I add an even smaller
washer  the arm drops to about 80 or 85 degrees lifting the larger washers even further.

Then when I calculate the work in ( w x distance) and the work out I get over
100%.  Adding the smaller washer increases the net work out to about 200%
vs about 130% with the first washer.

For my calculations I do not use ft lbs but units which are oz. / 1/8 inch distance
which I call units.  so 1 unit would be 1 oz at 1/8 inch.

So here is what my last measurement was.
work in 3.559 units and work out(lifted) 7.2 units. - about 200%

So if I attached the two small washers to a string on a pulley it would
only take maybe 4 units of work from the 7.2 units of work lifted to reposition
the two small washers back where they started so we are ready to repeat they
cycle. And we have about 3 units left over to use for whatever we want.

None of this makes sense in classic lever science so I ask you to take
an hr. to make this and get measurements to see if I am deceiving myself
somehow.

I use a bicycle spoke because it is strong and does not bend. Other wire might
work but it can't bend or it will distort the measurements.

I will upload a photo later.

Norman

Title: Re: modified simple machine lever shows OU of 200%
Post by: norman6538 on February 05, 2016, 06:12:03 PM
I made a smaller version at first and it had 130% then wanted more assurance
in what I saw so made this larger one. see attached photo.
There is one small washer and a tiny washer on the left and at the center is
the larger 9 washers.

Norman
Title: Re: modified simple machine lever shows OU of 200%
Post by: TinselKoala on February 06, 2016, 04:57:27 AM
In your setup there are many sources of possible measurement error. For calculations, you must be very very precise in your measurements of things like the diameter of the wooden dowel, the distances and angles through which things move, the weights of the washers etc. I have no basic problem with your use of "units" as you have defined them but you have to be able to measure your distances to extreme precision (because of the small size of the dowel) and your angles also (because the moment arm calculation is quite sensitive to the angle.)
You may also be plagued by asymmetrical friction in your axle arrangement.

Title: Re: modified simple machine lever shows OU of 200%
Post by: broli on February 06, 2016, 10:07:16 AM
I would make sure that everything is balanced without the washers, because from what I can see one side has the bicycle spoke while the other side does not.
Title: Re: modified simple machine lever shows OU of 200%
Post by: sm0ky2 on February 06, 2016, 01:22:57 PM
I think the most important measurement here aside from the Mass vs units of measurement,
is the Height, with respect to the central axis of rotation.
Title: Re: modified simple machine lever shows OU of 200%
Post by: norman6538 on February 06, 2016, 03:41:28 PM
Measurement are critical and I am redoing them with different setups to discover
similarities or errors. I did catch one calculation error that made the 200% too high.
I am also looking at ratios of weight and distance to see how they compare to
work in and work out.  I want to make a larger circle so its easier to get an accurate
lift measurement. But all measurements so far were over 100%. The string rise is
according to circumference but the leverage is according to radius which is less
than circumference.  I won't be happy till I get several readings in the same ballpark.

Norman
Title: Re: modified simple machine lever shows OU of 200%
Post by: FreeEnergy on February 07, 2016, 01:01:42 PM
Hi norman,
How exactly is this thing suppose to work?
Could you post a diagram on how to build this and how it works?
Better yet post a video of this thing please explaining how it works and stuff.

Thank you in advance.

Title: Re: modified simple machine lever shows OU of 200%
Post by: FreeEnergy on February 08, 2016, 05:02:00 PM
Still there norman?