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Author Topic: Moon Walkers.  (Read 46817 times)

Offline tinman

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Moon Walkers.
« on: January 22, 2016, 10:30:29 AM »
Well this seems like the closest category i could find to place this topic-->that being-did we go to the moon in 1969.

A long debated question,with many different views on what did and did not happen in regards to the Apollo missions. The best way we can do this ,is by doing what we do with any other extraordinary claim here. We use the available evidence to determine the truth.

Now we could start simply by looking at the telemetry data of the first mission,but unfortunately the 14000 reels of data are missing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9bkxbwsc-Q.

Maybe we could start with the Van Allen belt's ?,only problem there is,in 1969 NASA (or anyone else) had no accurate information about the belt's,and how deadly they !may! be to human's.
It would seem they chose to send the astronauts through them anyway,and even then,some of the astronauts didnt even know they were going to ,or did go through them. One would think that these highly trained men would know everything they needed to know on such a large and dangerous mission.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrxpqn3Gb20

But it seems that NASA engineers know now that the belts are very dangerous,and are yet to develop space craft that can protect humans that travel through them.
Remember,the people being interviewed are the current ISS commander,and a NASA engineer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51DED8dcNkA

A video from the NASA web site-->what makes the Van Allen belts so dangerous. See video-sciencecasts-escape of the destructive electron's.
https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html

So why have we not been back to the moon ?.
Maybe cost is the reason/. Some info on the orion project.
Quote: NASA officials set April 2023 as the timeframe when they expect the Orion spacecraft to be ready to host humans on a flight around the moon.

April 2023 ::)-->why so long. They managed to get man on the moon much quicker back in the 60's.

Quote: NASA says it needs another $6.77 billion to complete development of Orion through 2023, atop $10.5 billion spent on the spacecraft since the project dawned with the Constellation program, an initiative started in 2005 under the Bush administration.That brings the program’s total projected cost to more than $17 billion through the first flight with astronauts.

17 billion dollars before the first maned flight.
The cost of 1 single project is enough to eliminate world hunger  >:(
How pathetic ::)

Anyway,that is my opening post for this thread.
I would hope that(although you have the right to disagree with other's)out right abuse of other members that post on this thread is avoided. I would also hope that the evidence provided is what judgments are made from,and not the need to stick to what you need to believe in.


Brad.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Moon Walkers.
« on: January 22, 2016, 10:30:29 AM »

Offline tinman

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2016, 11:13:03 AM »
First up

Who has any proof other than that supplied by NASA,that man walked on the moon?.
When i mean proof,i mean either photographic or video proof. Words mean nothing when extraordinary claims are made. This is the very same way we do it in regards to OU devices-->third party verification. Why should it be any different for the moon walkers?.

Some quote's by PW from the other thread this was being debated on.

Quote:  So the LRO images are fake as well?
What LRO images?. All i have seen is blured rubbish,that in no way depics any landing craft left on the moon. Below is a pic that the LRO took of the surface of the moon. So enough with the resolving crap.

Quote: The Chinese imaging will eventually improve
 The chinese rover has returned some very high res pictures of the moons surface. Not one that shows any evidence of the apollo missions.

To date,no other country has provided any evidence of the apollo landing's. In fact,NASA has not either.


Brad

Offline Johan_1955

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2016, 12:07:51 PM »
The Netherlands are best friends with US!


So we did get a very special gift in the sixties from our liberating friends, only Russia did do the job:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8226075.stm




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2016, 12:07:51 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Nink

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2016, 01:35:45 PM »
You are wasting your time Tinman.  I do not understand very much about Neuro-Linguistic Programming but unfortunately it appears there is only a small percentage of the population who are not susceptible.  Even extremely skeptical people like MH who can spot a scam from a Mile High, are able to believe in something that is completely implausible, without even being prepared to take a logical approach and question the facts. You need to understand that you can not debate the lunar landing with facts and data.

It appears once people have been programmed it is almost impossible to undo this level of conditioning. It is a bit like someone who believes in a religious deity, they will continue to believe in them even after the local priest has molested their children.  Any person who had not been subjected to that level of cognitive programing would immediately realize they had been scammed and the entire church was established simply to steal peoples money and allow the leaders easy access to sexually assault their children. Yet they forgive them and the scam continues.  Completely unexplainable.


Offline picowatt

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2016, 02:20:28 PM »
First up

Who has any proof other than that supplied by NASA,that man walked on the moon?.
When i mean proof,i mean either photographic or video proof. Words mean nothing when extraordinary claims are made. This is the very same way we do it in regards to OU devices-->third party verification. Why should it be any different for the moon walkers?.

Some quote's by PW from the other thread this was being debated on.

Quote:  So the LRO images are fake as well?
What LRO images?. All i have seen is blured rubbish,that in no way depics any landing craft left on the moon. Below is a pic that the LRO took of the surface of the moon. So enough with the resolving crap.

Can you provide some source data regarding the posted image?  Your image does not look like an LRO image.

Quote

Quote: The Chinese imaging will eventually improve
 The chinese rover has returned some very high res pictures of the moons surface. Not one that shows any evidence of the apollo missions.

To date,no other country has provided any evidence of the apollo landing's. In fact,NASA has not either.

The Chinese rover was/is not close to any Apollo landing sites. 

However, the Chinese do claim to have spotted the Apollo 11 landing site from their orbiter, but the site only resolves to 2 pixels at their resolution capability. At only two pixels for the whole site from the Chinese, the latest LRO imagery remains the best to date.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2016, 02:20:28 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline picowatt

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2016, 02:40:27 PM »

Maybe we could start with the Van Allen belt's ?,only problem there is,in 1969 NASA (or anyone else) had no accurate information about the belt's,and how deadly they !may! be to human's.

Tinman, your statement is just not true. 


From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_radiation_belt

"Kristian Birkeland, Carl Størmer, and Nicholas Christofilos had investigated the possibility of trapped charged particles before the Space Age.[3] Explorer 1 and Explorer 3 confirmed the existence of the belt in early 1958 under James Van Allen at the University of Iowa. The trapped radiation was first mapped out by Explorer 4, Pioneer 3 and Luna 1."

That was all prior to 1960.

From: http://www.braeunig.us/apollo/VABraddose.htm

Regarding mapping of VAB radiation:

"The description of the radiation environment requires a knowledge of the particle flux as a function of energy, species, location in space, and time. The AE-8 and AP-8 models consist of maps that contain omnidirectional, integral electron (AE maps) and proton (AP maps) fluxes in the energy range 0.04 MeV to 7 MeV for electrons and 0.1 MeV to 400 MeV for protons in the Earth's radiation belt. The fluxes are stored as functions of energy, L-value, and B/B0. The maps are based on data from more than twenty satellites from the early 1960s to the mid-1970s. AE-8 and AP-8 are the latest editions in a series of updates starting with AE-1 and AP-1 in 1966."

Also, from the above Wiki link:

"The Apollo missions marked the first event where humans traveled through the Van Allen belts, which was one of several radiation hazards known by mission planners.[30] The astronauts had low exposure in the Van Allen belts due to the short period of time spent flying through them. Apollo flight trajectories bypassed the inner belts completely to send spacecraft through only the thinner areas of the outer belts. [31][32] The command module's inner structure was an aluminum "sandwich" consisting of a welded aluminium inner skin, a thermally bonded honeycomb core, and a thin aluminium "face sheet". The steel honeycomb core and outer face sheets were thermally bonded to the inner skin.

Astronauts' overall exposure was actually dominated by solar particles once outside Earth's magnetic field. The total radiation received by the astronauts varied from mission to mission but was measured to be between 0.16 and 1.14 rads (1.6 and 11.4 mGy), much less than the standard of 5 rem (50 mSv) per year set by the United States Atomic Energy Commission for people who work with radioactivity"

PW

Offline ramset

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2016, 03:12:26 PM »
Johan   ;D [good to see you...]

We had this problem with wooden Nickels over here too....



I would suggest we first try to view these things from here and get good documentation ,perhaps a school project with an observatory ?




 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2016, 03:12:26 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline MileHigh

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2016, 04:57:43 PM »
There are people that say 9/11 never happened and it's all just a projected hologram.  There are people that say that ISIS is not really what they say they are, it's just a CIA operation.  The heads being cut off, is that real or just a hologram or a series of fake staged videos?  There are people that say that Pearl Harbor never happened.  The list goes on and on and on.  The allegation that the moon shot was all faked is one of these whackadoo stories.

Sometimes the beliefs are so out of whack that it just goes to show the normal distribution when it comes to human behaviours and attitudes.  It's all part of Nature's system for ensuring the survival of the species.  That doesn't mean that it's true though.

Some guy says he has a magic generator that only needs two liters of water to be added every month and no fuel and people believe him.  When the news got mainstream alternative media exposure the guy was flooded with inquiries.  Some people take a useless hunk of metal and wires and connect it to an electric motor and say that it's a magic free energy generator and they get hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations for their cause.  They put out disinformation that makes North Korea look like their bedfellows and barely anybody says anything.  It's completely retarded, they have never presented a single shred of data that it works but they still put out propaganda saying it works.

There are people that hate the oil industry with a passion, blindly object to every proposed pipeline, object to every proposed power line, and yet they are very happy to take a nice hot shower and cook up bacon and eggs for breakfast every morning.

People say we never went to the moon and people say there is a secret permanent military base on the moon that has been there for years.  People look at giant rocket that is 35 stories high and say that it was built and launched to supplement the fake footage done on a secret movie studio.

They discovered a face on Mars!  Countless books have been written about it.  People analyzed the geometry of the surrounding mountains and boulders and found within golden ratios and alien space ports.  Whoops, years later a better satellite passed overhead and imaged a normal looking mountain on Mars - but that's actually a conspiracy to hide the fact that there is a face on Mars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UExTN3_UOIY

Offline picowatt

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2016, 05:03:08 PM »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2016, 05:03:08 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline scratchrobot

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2016, 05:15:24 PM »
You are wasting your time Tinman.  I do not understand very much about Neuro-Linguistic Programming but unfortunately it appears there is only a small percentage of the population who are not susceptible.  Even extremely skeptical people like MH who can spot a scam from a Mile High, are able to believe in something that is completely implausible, without even being prepared to take a logical approach and question the facts. You need to understand that you can not debate the lunar landing with facts and data.

It appears once people have been programmed it is almost impossible to undo this level of conditioning. It is a bit like someone who believes in a religious deity, they will continue to believe in them even after the local priest has molested their children.  Any person who had not been subjected to that level of cognitive programing would immediately realize they had been scammed and the entire church was established simply to steal peoples money and allow the leaders easy access to sexually assault their children. Yet they forgive them and the scam continues.  Completely unexplainable.


You are so right  :-[


Offline MileHigh

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2016, 05:29:45 PM »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2016, 05:29:45 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline picowatt

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2016, 08:19:09 PM »
So why have we not been back to the moon ?.
Maybe cost is the reason/. Some info on the orion project.
Quote: NASA officials set April 2023 as the timeframe when they expect the Orion spacecraft to be ready to host humans on a flight around the moon.

April 2023 ::)-->why so long. They managed to get man on the moon much quicker back in the 60's.

Quote: NASA says it needs another $6.77 billion to complete development of Orion through 2023, atop $10.5 billion spent on the spacecraft since the project dawned with the Constellation program, an initiative started in 2005 under the Bush administration.That brings the program’s total projected cost to more than $17 billion through the first flight with astronauts.

17 billion dollars before the first maned flight.
The cost of 1 single project is enough to eliminate world hunger  >:(
How pathetic ::)

I am not really sure what today's cost to launch a moon mission has to do with evidence of whether man has been to the moon or not, but NASA's budget is pathetically low and I for one wish more of my tax dollars were going there.

However, stamp out world hunger for only $16billion?  Not to make light of that issue, but that is way less than $30 per hungry person.  That would definitely help for a short time, but I do not think that would "eliminate world hunger".


Apollo was very expensive.  From:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_program#Costs

"The final cost of Apollo was reported to Congress as $25.4 billion in 1973.[82] It took up the majority of NASA's budget while it was being developed. For example, in 1966 it accounted for about 60 percent of NASA's total $5.2 billion budget.[83] A single Saturn V launch in 1969 cost up to $375 million, compared to the National Science Foundation's fiscal year 1970 budget of $440 million.[84]

In 2009, NASA held a symposium on project costs which presented an estimate of the Apollo program costs in 2005 dollars as roughly $170 billion. This included all research and development costs; the procurement of 15 Saturn V rockets, 16 Command/Service Modules, 12 Lunar Modules, plus program support and management costs; construction expenses for facilities and their upgrading, and costs for flight operations. This was based on a Congressional Budget Office report, A Budgetary Analysis of NASA's New Vision for Space, September 2004.[80] The Space Review estimated in 2010 the cost of Apollo from 1959 to 1973 as $20.4 billion, or $109 billion in 2010 dollars.[85]"


$16 billion sounds pretty cheap compared to what Apollo cost.  Spaceflight, while still pricey, costs much less now than it used to (using inflation adjusted numbers).

PW


Offline MileHigh

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2016, 08:22:57 PM »
Brad:

Quote
And it was a debate you lost in the end,along with some very !self acclaimed! smart guy's.

Really?  I didn't know it was about winners and losers.  I saw it as just another incomplete inconclusive experiment where you are staring at an ordinary vanilla pulse motor and are thinking that something miraculous is taking place because of the presence of some magnets.  The problem is your failure to realize that everything was normal and happening just like it was supposed to be happening.

Quote
There are active engineer's,and passive engineer's.
I am an active mechanical engineer.
Do you know the difference between the two MH?-->im guessing not.

I have never heard that terminology in my life so please explain.  Did you study engineering and graduate from an accredited engineering school or is it like the old cliche, "I am not a doctor but I play one on TV?"

Quote
And you know this how?.
You know very little about me,and you have based your judgement only on what you have seen me do-->just like you have based your judgement on the moon landings by what NASA has shown you.
The difference being--one you need to believe in,and the other you need not to believe in. You make me laugh MH-->you have just made two opposite judgement's on two different thing's,based around what you have been shown or seen so far lol.

I only had one summer job in the aerospace industry and have visited a few aerospace companies in my time.  So that doesn't amount to much.  What I can tell you for sure is that you can't build a lunar rover like you are claiming.

Quote
Absolute rubbish.
You think all this is needed just because the temperature may reach 150*C,and that the vehicle will be operating in a vacuum?.

You have been sucked in to the world of bullshit,and that is very obvious now.

You absolutely would need a huge team of engineers to develop a rover in this day and age and Picowatt who is wiser than you and me put together is in agreement with that.

You are deluding yourself about being able to build a rover on the cheap nearly all by yourself just like you are deluding yourself and being pig-headed about your unremarkable pulse motor.  It's all part and parcel of the explanation for all of the crazy foolish professional free energy propositions and semi-related pulp fiction hucksterism there is out there.  Even in this day and age you can make money selling magnetic bracelets and "structured" water.  I suppose that these things are never going to change because the human condition is never going to change.

MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2016, 08:38:10 PM »
PW:

Quote
In a move that promises to shake up the fighter jet market, Canada's new Liberal Party government is widely expected to pull out of the Pentagon's F-35 program.

Quote
For Canada's supply base, the stakes are high. Many Canadian companies have spent years building components for the new plane and stand to lose as much as CDN$11 billion (US $8.3 billion) in work over the life of the jet.

I am not posting this to debate about the F35 itself, but rather I want to make another point relating to costs.

From memory, I think the total cost to Canada over 25 or 30 years to have a Canadian fleet of F35s was projected to be about $30 billion Canadian.  That was bandied about in the news and used as an argument about the "staggering costs."  I can't believe how stupid the media and the gullible public can be sometimes.  That averages out to only $3 billion per year, which is peanuts!  That's probably the annual budget of a typical large city.

Not to count how much of that money would be recycled back into the local economy which keeps people working, keeps the aerospace sector healthy, preserves brain power, develops new brain power, and pays the bills for housing and sending kids to school - not to mention that it defends our country from the nasties and allows us to project power to keep all of us safe and snug in our beds.

$30 billion over 30 years?  Horror of horrors!

MileHigh

Offline picowatt

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2016, 08:50:05 PM »
MH,

My apologies, I must have edited out my reference to the military budget in my prior post as you were posting.

I thought on it a bit and decided to not open that can of worms, hence my deletion of that reference.

PW

 

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