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Author Topic: Moon Walkers.  (Read 42535 times)

Offline Nink

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #90 on: January 25, 2016, 09:19:29 PM »
Excuse my paraphrase of your comment, but I will also not participate or condone derogatory remarks toward LRO or NASA engineers who are not here to defend themselves.


Every time the astronots were asked to "defend themselves" and swear on the bible they walked on the moon, they declined.

So how come the Astronuts won't swear on the bible they walked on the moon?  Pretty simple way to defend themselves isn't it ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAbpWaDL4Zc




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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #90 on: January 25, 2016, 09:19:29 PM »

Offline picowatt

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #91 on: January 25, 2016, 09:22:28 PM »
Every time the astronots were asked to "defend themselves" and swear on the bible they walked on the moon.

So how come the Astronuts won't swear on the bible they walked on the moon?  Pretty simple way to defend themselves isn't it ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAbpWaDL4Zc

I cannot speak for astronauts, but someone asking me to do that is in effect accusing me of being a liar, which would not go over all that well with me. 

Offline Nink

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #92 on: January 25, 2016, 10:04:29 PM »
I cannot speak for astronauts, but someone asking me to do that is in effect accusing me of being a liar, which would not go over all that well with me.

The first thing you are asked to do in any court no matter if you are presenting facts,  testifying for or against someone, you are asked to swear on a bible.   Swearing on the bible is not an admission of guilt.

If I walked on the moon and someone said they would give me money to donate to my favorite charity if I swore on the bible,  I would have grabbed the bible and not even hesitated.  I would not  have punched the person asking me in the face. 

 

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #92 on: January 25, 2016, 10:04:29 PM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #93 on: January 25, 2016, 10:48:28 PM »
 author=MileHigh link=topic=16359.msg472221#msg472221 date=1453752174]




Quote
Because the 170-popund astronaut and the 120-pound space suit form a 290-pound "ground thumper" that hits the ground for every bounce.  That makes the ground shake, a small portion of the energy from the bounce makes the flag pole rattle.

Oh please ::)
Is that the best you have MH ?.
Did you forget something MH?--How much did they weigh on the moon again? Didnt think that one through to well-did you. I will do the calculations for you,so as you do not have to think to hard.
170lb + 120lb x 16.5% = 47.85lb. How is your earth quake man looking now?
Now how is your power of observation MH?. Do you see the vertical or horizontal poles moving ,due to your earth quake man bouncing on past?
Poor effort MH--epic fail.

Quote
And the frustrating part is that you never even considered this possibility, just like many of the other poor hapless moon conspiracy theorists.  They desperately need that "dummies" book.

Who needs the dummies book now MH?

Quote
The answer to that one is staring you in the face.  BTW, it's "does" and "too."

Was it now?
BYW,it's 16.5% of what you would weigh here on earth,when your on the moon :D

Quote
How do you know it's off-the-shelf?  You don't.  You are failing to think past one step.  Are you an expert on nylon and other plastics when it comes to heat resistance and melting point?  No?  I didn't think so.  Neither am I.  Are there different formulations of nylon that have different properties including the melting point?  You don't know?  I don't know myself either.

PW posted the link that confirmed that the flag's are an !off the shelf! item,so go have this argument with him. Once your done there,go try and buy an !off the shelf! nylon flag that will survive in temperatures higher than 90*C. And of course you can get expensive high temperature nylon,but that is not what !off the shelf! flags are made from.

Quote
So we choose to be stupid and just blindly assume that regular vanilla run of the mill nylon was used for the flag.  That makes us comfortably numb.

Well it once again,dose make you look silly MH,as the person you stick by(PW),is the one that posted the confirmation link about what the flag's were--that being !off the shelf! nylon flags.
So no,i didnt blindly assume anything MH. I made an observation from a high resolution picture,and after PW did a bit of research for him self,he found that my observation was indeed correct.

 
Quote
It adds to the moon conspiracy.   Stay away from that "dummies" book!  We only have to think one step, and then we can just go back to sleep.

As far as step's go MH,you should take a few step's back,and go read the thread again-so as to stop your self from making more silly mistakes ;)

Quote
Funny though, the I have heard the term "high temperature resistance plastic" before.  Hmmmm.... makes you think, but only if your mind is capable of thinking past one step.

You go by yourself one of them !off the shelf! high temperature nylon flag's MH--you go get it. ;)

Quote
Well, you are making a fool of yourself by contradicting yourself in the question.

As we can all see MH,it is not me making a fool of myself here lol.

Quote
The question itself is a retarded moon conspiracy theorist question.  This is a failure to think:  If the flag is blown over then the descent stage must have created a blast crater.  There is no relationship at all between the flag blowing over and a possible blast crater, NONE.  Hence my satire.

I had a feeling you wouldnt answer MH,but in stead just go the !good old! retarded moon conspirator route again. But i give you a little credit for your attempted redirection,although most here will see straight through it.

Quote
For starters you don't know if there was or was not a fine layer of dust or fine damage on the foot pads and legs.

Yes i do MH.
Once again,the power of observation is a great thing.
We can safely assume that some of the ejected mass(small sharp jagged rocks traveling in excess of 3600KPH) would hit the foot pads and legs that are in this straight laminar flow in a radial pattern you mention. Do you see any damage or dust in the foot bowls,or on the legs MH in the HD pics below?.

Quote
One more time we are back to the moon conspiracy theorists' failure to think past one step.  "There is supposed to be dust on the landing pads because that's how rockets act on Earth."  One more time, this is on the level of the common sense of an astute 15-year-old that understands that the LEM is landing in a vacuum.  You can even see it when Neil Armstrong says, "kicking up some dist," all of the dust is shooting straight away in a nearly straight laminar flow.

And none is going to hit the foot pads or legs on the way past-hey MH ::)

Quote
Well I'm calling BS on that.

Lol-really?. The only bullshit is you believing that none of the ejecta is going to hit the legs or foot pads of the lunar lander without doing any damage to either,and without any of that ejecta falling into the bowl shaped foot pads--thats BS right there MH.

Quote
I will tell you what else is a double-dose of BS:  "Somebody that disagrees with me is biased and therefore their opinions don't count."  That is a retarded statement.

And yet all the evidence above says you cannot make simple or accurate judgments based on accurate information supplied.

Quote
You have tripped up half a dozen times in your debate with PW, really "pregnant pause" displays of ignorance.  Instead of acknowledging your mistakes and/or ignorance, you just soldier on and absorb the new enlightening information without saying anything.  You may think that is the best course of action but it's not at all and just hurts your credibility.

Im calling you on this one MH,as this is an outright lie.
Please make reference to this bullshit you just posted. I have been the one providing the evidence,and the one asking the question's. It is you and PW that reply with nothing but insult's--but you can never give a straight answer. In fact,you cant even get a simple thing like how much a person and his space suit weighs on the moon correct. In fact,you were way off with the estimated weight of your earth quake man. So who is tripping up MH?--it's not me.

Quote
I saw the moon landings as a kid and the physics and geopolitics all make sense.  The "fake moon landings" is just another conspiracy cult by people that seemingly lack common sense or they suspend their common sense because they want to spin their tale because they have an agenda.  There is a conspiracy theorist cottage industry, and you can milk some decent money from the moon conspiracy.

Lol-yes,you watched it on TV--it must be real. ::)

Offline picowatt

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #94 on: January 25, 2016, 11:09:38 PM »

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #94 on: January 25, 2016, 11:09:38 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #95 on: January 26, 2016, 03:13:45 AM »
Quote
Oh please (http://overunity.com/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Is that the best you have MH ?.
Did you forget something MH?--How much did they weigh on the moon again? Didnt think that one through to well-did you. I will do the calculations for you,so as you do not have to think to hard.
170lb + 120lb x 16.5% = 47.85lb. How is your earth quake man looking now?
Now how is your power of observation MH?. Do you see the vertical or horizontal poles moving ,due to your earth quake man bouncing on past?
Poor effort MH--epic fail.

I forgot nothing.

This is another one of those "pregnant pause" moments of ignorance on your part.  I was quoting the weights of the astronaut and the suit in a purely colloquial sense.  You ran with that and took it to it's absurd literal end and used the moon's gravitational acceleration - as if that had anything to do with it - which it doesn't.   What's the "m" in f = ma?

So the epic fail is on your side.  The only real issue is this:  The astronaut and space suit with a combined mass of about 130 kilograms hitting the ground from a jump will impart an impulse of a certain amount of energy into the ground.  How much energy is irrelevant, the only thing that counts is that that impulse of energy traveled through the lunar surface and made the pole and the flag attached to the pole shake.  It's staring you in the face.

So, for starters you never even considered this.  Then, after you were informed of it, you decided that you were "sure" that this wasn't the case.  One more time, without any evidence that the pole didn't shake from the astronaut's jump, you have "decided" that it's not the case.  It's the only logical and common sense explanation for the flag waving and your behaviour is baffling.

Quote
Who needs the dummies book now MH?

Read above.

Quote
PW posted the link that confirmed that the flag's are an !off the shelf! item,so go have this argument with him. Once your done there,go try and buy an !off the shelf! nylon flag that will survive in temperatures higher than 90*C. And of course you can get expensive high temperature nylon,but that is not what !off the shelf! flags are made from.

You are making the claims and I am just responding to them.  You are supposed to do the work if you make the claim.  Fortunately PW is doing the digging, and I can see it was very easy digging at that.

From PW's link:  The 428 °F (220 °C) melting point of nylon 6 is lower than the 509 °F (265 °C) melting point of nylon 66.

I don't have to second-guess what the NASA engineers did because I have great respect for them and confidence in them.  Clearly you put your foot in your mouth again.

Quote
So no,i didnt blindly assume anything MH. I made an observation from a high resolution picture,and after PW did a bit of research for him self,he found that my observation was indeed correct.

Your observation of a high-resolution picture to determine what materials you are looking at isn't worth squat as PW already pointed out to you.  That's an example of how disconnected you are.  You simply can't look at a picture of something and be sure of what it's made out of.  Then some digging shows that it is indeed what you said it was made out of and you claim "victory" as if you were right.  No victory to claim, it was just pure dumb luck.

Quote
Do you see any damage or dust in the foot bowls,or on the legs MH in the HD pics below?.

The scanned in pictures are inferior to the negatives.  Then they are displayed on your monitor.  High resolution or not, in that multi-generation image transmission chain there is a certain limit to the resolving power in the final image that your eyeballs were looking at.  There is a chance that there is moon dust that you can't see because it is not resolved in the image.  And yet you insist that you are sure of yourself and correct!  It's the pulse motor times 100!  You would not make for a good scientist at all.

Quote
The only bullshit is you believing that none of the ejecta is going to hit the legs or foot pads of the lunar lander without doing any damage to either,and without any of that ejecta falling into the bowl shaped foot pads--thats BS right there MH.

I don't have nearly enough information to make any kind of call on that one way or the other.  I simply stated that the material would presumably be ejected in a radial laminar flow.  For sure a small rock could hit a big rock and bounce back and hit the LEM, I DON'T KNOW.   Just like I don't know if there could have been very fine moon dust in the pictures where you are "sure" there is no fine dust.  I can only go with my common sense and what I see in the pictures.  Is it reasonable to assume that the lander legs and pads were almost or completely unscathed by moon ejecta?  I would say YES.

Quote
And yet all the evidence above says you cannot make simple or accurate judgments based on accurate information supplied.

Look in the mirror.

Quote
m calling you on this one MH,as this is an outright lie.
Please make reference to this bullshit you just posted.

For starters you asked about how hot the LEM would be for the astronauts "at night" when there was no "night" because I think most of the missions lasted a week or less.  You clearly thought that there was a 24-hour day/night cycle on the moon which was a pregnant gaffe.

I will skim through and see if I can find some more, you asked for it.  But I am not going to read the thread verbatim.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #96 on: January 26, 2016, 04:46:19 AM »
Here you go, statements by you that are either out of kilter to say the least, or nonsensical to say the most:

Quote
Being that the vehicle will weigh 1/6th of that that it would here on earth,and the lunar terrain is an unknown,then i would use a negative up-positive down adjustable shock absorber.
Maybe we could start with the Van Allen belt's ?,only problem there is,in 1969 NASA (or anyone else) had no accurate information about the belt's,and how deadly they !may! be to human's.
That information in it self raises some interesting question's--like how did the astronauts stay warm at night?
With this,we can carry out many test to confirm what dose and dose not happen in a vacuum. One of the test i cant wait to carry out,is to see if any blast crater is created when a rocket engine gets close to a dusty dry surface in a vacuum.
Well if a picture and plastic bag can survive those temperatures,then how can you say that thermal control is an issue.
Square cut unfinished corners of sheet metal--the flooring base looks like corrugated zincalume sheeting from some farmers hay shed--all the seems are coming apart-->i mean,just look at the wrecks.
The second pic is taken from a further distance--notice any thing missing in the second picture.
Oh,and check out the plastic/nylon flag's in HD. Some say they were an aluminum foil,but as you can see--good old nylon/plastic material,with standard stitching. They seem to hold up well to the extreme temperature's
Im more interested in what the differential pressure was between the inside and outside of the space suits. Looking at the first image,it would appear as though there was none--note all the wrinkles in the suit.
So how is the heat collected from the sun dissipated from the space craft PW ?. We know here on earth that the heat would be dissipated by way of convection due to our atmosphere,but how is it dissipated in the vacuum of space where there would be no convection dissipation ?
You asked me how i was going to keep the electric motors cool,and my response was in regard to this,and i was talking about dissipating the heat from the motors through the !all metal! wheels to the moon's surface
Both convection and radiation of heat are by way of transfer by mass motion of a fluid such as air or water when the heated fluid is caused to move away from the source of heat, carrying energy with it.
Then we can also try and work out as to why the space suits do not puff up like the Michelin man.
PW,if you cant tell the types and see the difference in different types of simple/everyday materials,then perhaps some glasses to improve your vision?
So they say that the flags red and blue colors would have bleached in no time,just because it was now lying on the surface of the moon,and not standing up. So,dose an object receive more heat energy standing up and receiving direct sun light,or more heat energy lying down on the surface of the moon (which is now shaded by the flag it self),and out of direct sun light?
how was there enough thrust/force placed upon the flags from the escape modules rocket engine to knock over the flags,where that flag is a greater distance away from the rocket nozzle of the escape module,than the lunar surface was away from the lander nozzle at shut down,and yet no crater was produced by the landers engine?.
in regards to how would i get rid of the heat from the drive motors. Heat from the wheel motors(by way of conduction) could be dissipated through the aluminum,stainless steel,titanium wheels to the moons surface.
We also know that there is no atmosphere on the moon,and that means that the flags should not be disturbed by an astronaut bouncing past the flag without physical contact.
ou can clearly see the flag being pulled toward the astronaut,and this clearly shows a vacuum/pressure drop being created behind the astronaut-the same effect you would see in an environment that has an atmosphere.
So if these !off the shelf! nylon flags have a very low tolerance to heat,how can they survive for days on the moon,if the temperature of objects in direct sun light rises above 150*C ?
170lb + 120lb x 16.5% = 47.85lb. How is your earth quake man looking now?
Once your done there,go try and buy an !off the shelf! nylon flag that will survive in temperatures higher than 90*C.
We can safely assume that some of the ejected mass(small sharp jagged rocks traveling in excess of 3600KPH) would hit the foot pads and legs that are in this straight laminar flow in a radial pattern you mention.

Statements like the above make it very challenging to have a debate.

Honourable mentions:

Quote
No,the earth is not in orbit !around! the sun.
Here is todays cost of 1x lunar rover--> $61,353,174.39,__and that is for 1 lunar rover.
Or perhaps it is you PW that needs to do a little more scientific research into dissipating heat in a vacuum ?
What's mars got to do with the thermal values of the vacuum of space?
In fact,you cant even get a simple thing like how much a person and his space suit weighs on the moon correct.

Man landed on the moon multiple times.  That's what happened, there is no government conspiracy.

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #96 on: January 26, 2016, 04:46:19 AM »
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Offline picowatt

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #97 on: January 26, 2016, 05:28:44 AM »
What exactly did Mars have to do with this thread?

Indeed....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCf23ZTFaDM

Offline picowatt

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #98 on: January 26, 2016, 05:53:42 AM »
Lest we not forget, as our mortality brings about "changes" and we find our "circuits dead",

We must "turn and face the strain" with the grins of all things past:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_M3uw29U1U



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #98 on: January 26, 2016, 05:53:42 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #99 on: January 26, 2016, 07:33:33 AM »
   


Quote
I forgot nothing.

This is another one of those "pregnant pause" moments of ignorance on your part.  I was quoting the weights of the astronaut and the suit in a purely colloquial sense.

What a bunch of crap MH. You quoted that weight to make your stupid assumption look a little better than it would have if you posted the correct weigh--stop trying to save face. You slipped up,and you know it.\

Quote
You ran with that and took it to it's absurd literal end and used the moon's gravitational acceleration - as if that had anything to do with it - which it doesn't.


I did not run with it-->i did what you do every time you spend your time looking for other peoples mistakes, i corrected your incorrect attempt at explaining as to why the flag wavered. To say that the moons gravitational acceleration has nothing to do with it--well that just go's to show how stupid you can be some times. If it was the same sort of thing in a different situation,you would tear strips of those trying to peddle such rubbish. But as it is to do with the moon landing's that you firmly believe in,all your sense of reality has been put aside,and you now resort to idiotic explanations to try and justify the impossible <--this can be clearly seen,and hence my saying-the need to believe out weighs the need to know the truth.

Quote
So the epic fail is on your side.  The only real issue is this:  The astronaut and space suit with a combined mass of about 130 kilograms hitting the ground from a jump will impart an impulse of a certain amount of energy into the ground.  How much energy is irrelevant, the only thing that counts is that that impulse of energy traveled through the lunar surface and made the pole and the flag attached to the pole shake.  It's staring you in the face.

Absolute rubbish MH,and you know it. Anyone with half a brain can clearly see that your talking crap. So now it is up to you to prove your theory. Now you need to go and find on the world wide web,proof of your ridiculous claim. Go watch the video again MH,and point out the pole moving. You will not find one shred of evidence to back up your stupid claim,just like there is no evidence to back up NASA's and the governments claim that man walked on the moon.


Quote
So, for starters you never even considered this.  Then, after you were informed of it, you decided that you were "sure" that this wasn't the case.

The reason i did not consider it MH,is because out side of your fantasy land it is in no way plausible--in fact,it is ridiculous.

Quote
One more time, without any evidence that the pole didn't shake from the astronaut's jump, you have "decided" that it's not the case.


Did the pole shake when the astronaut was bouncing on behind it MH?--did,or can you see the pole shake enough to make the flag flap?. That would be a big fat no in both cases.

Quote
It's the only logical and common sense explanation for the flag waving and your behaviour is baffling.

No it's not MH,it only makes sense to the believers,as they do not wish the entertain the fact that the movie was shot here on earth,which would explain the flag wavering with 100% accuracy.
It is your behaviour that is-not baffling,but expected. Now do you see where the bias thing is coming into play MH. You would not be so stupid if it was to do with anything else.

Quote
You are making the claims and I am just responding to them.  You are supposed to do the work if you make the claim.  Fortunately PW is doing the digging, and I can see it was very easy digging at that

Yes,i made the claim about the flag being nylon through the power of observation,and common sense. PW then did some research,and found that i was correct--those are the facts MH-it's all here on the thread for all to see. You are now making a claim that is well beyond reasonable,so now you have to do some digging of your own,and back up your claim with evidence MH--evidence ;)

Quote
From PW's link:  The 428 °F (220 °C) melting point of nylon 6 is lower than the 509 °F (265 °C) melting point of nylon 66.

To bad the flag's were not made from nylon 6 MH--another misdirection.
Quote:  Dennis Lacarrubba, whose New Jersey-based company, Annin, made the flag and sold it to NASA for $5.50 in 1969, considers what might happen to an ordinary nylon flag left outside for 39 years on Earth, let alone on the moon. He thinks for a few seconds. “I can’t believe there would be anything left,” he concludes. “I gotta be honest with you. It’s gonna be ashes.”
Quote: For forty-odd years, the flags have been exposed to the full fury of the Moon’s environment – alternating 14 days of searing sunlight and 100° C heat with 14 days of numbing

Go buy an off the shelf nylon flag MH,and place it in your over set to the lower temperature of 100*C,and see how long it last--i dare ya. ;)

Quote
I don't have to second-guess what the NASA engineers did because I have great respect for them and confidence in them.  Clearly you put your foot in your mouth again.

Unfortuately MH,it is all here on this thread,and it is clear that it is you that has been putting both feet in there mouth.

Quote
Your observation of a high-resolution picture to determine what materials you are looking at isn't worth squat as PW already pointed out to you.  That's an example of how disconnected you are.  You simply can't look at a picture of something and be sure of what it's made out of.  Then some digging shows that it is indeed what you said it was made out of and you claim "victory" as if you were right.  No victory to claim, it was just pure dumb luck.

MH-if you cant tell what that type of nylon material looks like when it's right in your face,then you need an optical check. But im guessing you did not use the link i provided,or did any research of your own to check out other close up shot's of the flag. You would have done the opposite to what you are telling me to do,and just sat in your rocking chair,and waited for others to do the work for you.

Quote
The scanned in pictures are inferior to the negatives.  Then they are displayed on your monitor.  High resolution or not, in that multi-generation image transmission chain there is a certain limit to the resolving power in the final image that your eyeballs were looking at.  There is a chance that there is moon dust that you can't see because it is not resolved in the image.  And yet you insist that you are sure of yourself and correct!  It's the pulse motor times 100!  You would not make for a good scientist at all.

A bad scientist is like the many we have to day--dare not step out of the field of science into the realm of reality. A bad scientist is one that is bias as to what he thinks is correct,and what actually is correct. Have you not ever bought an off the shelf nylon flag MH? How is the resolution of the pic below?--meet your need's MH. And wait until you get a gander at the next set of pics MH--im guessing you will not see the very obvious duct tape plastered all over the CSM-the space craft that is suppose to have carried man to the moon and back,and then survive the extreme heat of re entry.

Quote
I don't have nearly enough information to make any kind of call on that one way or the other.  I simply stated that the material would presumably be ejected in a radial laminar flow.  For sure a small rock could hit a big rock and bounce back and hit the LEM, I DON'T KNOW.   Just like I don't know if there could have been very fine moon dust in the pictures where you are "sure" there is no fine dust.  I can only go with my common sense and what I see in the pictures.  Is it reasonable to assume that the lander legs and pads were almost or completely unscathed by moon ejecta?  I would say YES.

It is far from reasonable to assume that at all,and could never be a reality.

Quote
Look in the mirror.

Yes MH,have a !good! look in the mirror.

Quote
I will skim through and see if I can find some more, you asked for it.  But I am not going to read the thread verbatim.
 

Of course you wont read the thread verbatim,and that is why you make continual mistakes.

Offline tinman

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #100 on: January 26, 2016, 07:50:23 AM »
Lest we not forget, as our mortality brings about "changes" and we find our "circuits dead",

We must "turn and face the strain" with the grins of all things past:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_M3uw29U1U

And the stars look very different todaaaaay.

I thought they couldnt see the stars from the moon?-->un less they looked through the optics as NA stated many times,but only that we know the view finders were removed from the cameras.

Two good song's but,i enjoyed them. But what do people from other countries sing about?.
How easy was that ;)
The slow motion exit from the lunar lander,the foot print,the space suits,the lunar module and backdrops--all looks so real,and all done in a studio.
And do you understand the message behind the song?.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr8ljRgcJNM

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #100 on: January 26, 2016, 07:50:23 AM »
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Offline picowatt

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #101 on: January 26, 2016, 07:51:17 AM »
Tinman,

Which video regarding the moving flag are you guys going on about.  It's been buried in the thread, can you repost the link?

Regarding the flag versus temp thing, I'd be more concerned about changes due to UV and ionizing radiation.

They would, at the least, be very stiff and brittle I would think, likely bearing little resemblance to the US flag.  But with no atmosphere, a portion at the least could indeed still be hanging on.

The "oven test" would need to be done in a vacuum, or at the least, in an inert atmosphere...

PW

Offline tinman

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #102 on: January 26, 2016, 08:02:45 AM »
Tinman,

Which video regarding the moving flag are you guys going on about.  It's been buried in the thread, can you repost the link?

Regarding the flag versus temp thing, I'd be more concerned about changes due to UV and ionizing radiation.

They would, at the least, be very stiff and brittle I would think, likely bearing little resemblance to the US flag.  But with no atmosphere, a portion at the least could indeed still be hanging on.

The "oven test" would need to be done in a vacuum, or at the least, in an inert atmosphere...

PW

Here is the video in question PW. From 2:30 on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymwE1sNm82Y

Yes with the flag test being in a vacuum. Maybe with the use of a large spot light as the heat source?.
But the test was more to see at what the material temperature would have to be before it starts to shrivel up.

Brad

Offline tinman

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2016, 08:42:56 AM »
I have really enjoyed going through the high res pictures of the Apollo mission from this site--real or not,the pictures really make you want to believe that man did make this fantastic journey.
But i will not let !what may be! a wonderful fantasy get in the way of scientific proof-either way.
 So for all-enjoy the high res pictures of all missions.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/projectapolloarchive/albums/with/72157658976934006

There was a few !!odd!! pictures i found with the Apollo 17 CSM.
The first is a picture taken from the lunar lander of the CSM. The part you see is the command module.
Now just to keep MH happy,i will not comment on what i see that is covering the command module.
The second picture is a close up of part of the first picture from the link i provided above. You can also see the photo reference number in the first picture,so as you can have a look your self at the exploded view of the picture. When you have found the picture in the gallery from the link i provided above,you simply click on that picture. When you do this,a smaller picture will be displayed. Click again on that smaller picture,and you whole screen will be filled with a HD picture--can take a few seconds before the picture becomes clean--depends on your PCU speed,and internet connection speed. Once you have the exploded view,you simply move your mouse over the picture to view different parts of the picture.

The third picture below is of the CSM in moon orbit. Now we see the CSM skin has a highly reflective surface. Remember-the first picture shows the CSM leaving earth heading for the moon,and the third show's it in orbit around the moon.
I will leave others to determine what they are looking at in the first picture.

Brad

Offline picowatt

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #104 on: January 26, 2016, 08:50:02 AM »
Here is the video in question PW. From 2:30 on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymwE1sNm82Y

Yes with the flag test being in a vacuum. Maybe with the use of a large spot light as the heat source?.
But the test was more to see at what the material temperature would have to be before it starts to shrivel up.

Brad

I watched the video.  I believe the flag moved due to being hit by the exhaust from the spacesuit sublimator.

In the video, if you can stand listening to the sound track, you will hear NASA say "coming up on water".  The astronauts are being told there EVA must come to an end because the portable life support system (PLSS) is running out of water.

The PLSS used a rebreather and CO2 scrubber.  Oxygen, as a consumable, was rarely the limiting factor regarding EVA time.  However, the suits used a "sublimator" for cooling which consumed water and it was that water which was typically the EVA limiting consumable.

Somewhat simplified, the sublimator forces water thru very tiny pores on the inside of a cylindrical metal plate.  The water freezes.  Warm water from the suits garment layer needing to be cooled is run thru tubes in contact with the plate.  This "melts" and "boils off" (actually, "sublimates") the water (which does so at a lower temp in a vacuum).  A fan is used to purge (blow out) the water vapor from the inside of the cylindrical sublimator.

If I recall correctly, the exhaust for the sublimator is thru a relatively large circular opening in the left side of the PLSS hard shell.

PW 

 

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