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Author Topic: Moon Walkers.  (Read 53806 times)

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #150 on: January 27, 2016, 03:02:23 PM »
Quote
As i said-the mass equivalent in KG's on the moon  is 21.45--what part of that do you not understand?. If something weighs 21.45 kg's on the moon,it ruddy mass here on earth will be 130kg's. Is it really that hard for you to understand MH.

I can see that it's pretty much hopeless.  Did you read where I stated that equivalent kilograms weight is never used and frowned upon?  Your brain can't process the fact that you were supposed to use the term "weight" instead of "mass" in your sentence?

Quote
It is dissipated into the moon.

Yes, and the flag is planted in that moon.  But I suppose you have a bionic eye like the six million dollar man and it calculated exactly how much energy impacted onto the flag pole and you are "sure" that your bionic eye is right when it said that the flag should not shake....  You have superpowers.

Quote
Did you see any of these earth quake vibrations that were strong enough to make a flag wave,also create even the slightest vibration on the camera that the astronaut was holding ?--didnt think so.

The above is a ridiculous comparison that is completely invalid and makes no sense.  It's just another item to add to that list that I posted of crazy things that you said.

Quote
While your at it,work this one out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNWs-vlIhdM   

There is nothing to work out.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #150 on: January 27, 2016, 03:02:23 PM »

Offline picowatt

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #151 on: January 27, 2016, 03:08:39 PM »
PW
This explanation dose not fit the picture supplied. The photographs i supplied from the apollo mission show clear and decisive edges of each different color on each piece of tape. The examples you supplied by way of the link you posted show merging colors with undefined blurring transitions.
Below -the first picture shows the effect you are talking of,and the second picture shows the defined color differences between each piece of tape.

Point 1:  Consider the angles involved.

Point 2:  Consider the light source


Offline MileHigh

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #152 on: January 27, 2016, 03:09:12 PM »
Bull shit MH.
Do the astronauts look like there jumping any higher than they would on earth?.
The fact is MH,if you drop a ball that weighs 1kg here on earth from a height of 1 meter,the impact energy will be far greater than if you dropped that same ball from the same height on the moon--thats a fact MH that you cant seem to comprehend. The energy needed to lift that ball one meter here on earth is 6.5 time greater than on the moon. The energy of the impact here on earth when that ball hits the ground is then 6.5 times greater than on the moon-minus air resistive losses here on earth.

While your at it,explain as to why the astronauts and lunar vehicles motions are in slow motion-or appear to be. For what reason do they rise so slowly when they bounce around?
If i weighed say 100kg's,and i then lost say 70kg's .Would i appear to move in slow motion,or would my motion now appear faster with the weight loss.

I comprehend the ball dropping perfectly as I already indicated.  The problem is that it does not apply to my original statement.  The astronaut landed with a thud and that may have caused the flag to wave.

My thought experiment is 100% true and valid so if you are calling BS on it then you don't understand basic physics.

I think the astronauts move slowly because they are inside a pressurized suit that has an associated stiffness to it and they are carrying around a life support system that has a significant mass.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #152 on: January 27, 2016, 03:09:12 PM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #153 on: January 27, 2016, 03:26:32 PM »
I comprehend the ball dropping perfectly as I already indicated.  The problem is that it does not apply to my original statement.  The astronaut landed with a thud and that may have caused the flag to wave.

My thought experiment is 100% true and valid so if you are calling BS on it then you don't understand basic physics.

I think the astronauts move slowly because they are inside a pressurized suit that has an associated stiffness to it and they are carrying around a life support system that has a significant mass.

Quote
My thought experiment is 100% true and valid so if you are calling BS on it then you don't understand basic physics.

Your thought experiment has nothing to do with your over stated weight of the astronaut and suit on the moon. My understanding of physics is fine thank you,and i have made no errors in what i have said.

Please be more precise and correct from now on,when you are explaining/referring to events on the moon. Mixing it up with factors that exist here on earth,is only a misdirection on your behalf.


Brad

Offline picowatt

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #154 on: January 27, 2016, 04:21:35 PM »
Here are the two reasons it can not be the ejected water from the sublimator unit.

First-in the video,we see the astronaut bouncing past the flag. We clearly see the flag waver as he just passes the flag. If it was the ejected water(now turned into extremely small ice particles due to the rapid expansion of the water mist entering an extreme vacuum hitting the flag,then the flags first motion would be away from the astronaut. As can be clearly seen in the video,the first motion of the flag is toward the astronaut. This reaction is exactly as it would be here on earth.

Second- The pump and fan you speak of is between the middle and left side of the back pack unit. The sublimator units cooling plates run across the top of the PLSS unit. The waste vent is on the right hand side of the unit. On the left side of the PLSS unit,there was provision for an extra bag/luggage storage sack. The first two pictures below show the left side of the PLSS pack,and as can be seen in the first picture,there is no waste vent on the left side. The second picture show the extra luggage sack fitted that would cover any vent. The third picture shows the vent on the right side of the PLSS unit. So this also means that it was no ejected water from the pack that makes the flag waver,as it is on the wrong side.


Brad


Tinman.

The ejected stream is not ice particles.  The water ice sublimes into a gas.  Think a flow of water molecules.

The info I provided was from recollection with discussions I had with an engineer that worked at Huntsville during Apollo.  I was curious as to how heat was dealt with in a vacuum and we spent a great deal of time looking at a photo album and discussing Apollo.  Those conversations were some 45 years ago or so.  I recall there being an opening on the left side of the hard shell for the exhaust, but at my age, it would not be the first time my recollection was in error.  I also recall the O2 bottles being at the very top of the unit.

That said, I admit to being totally unfamiliar with the outer soft shell.  Even so, I find it very hard to believe the area you point out is the exhaust for the sublimator.  That looks too small and more so like the end of a strap.

The fan in the sublimator unit acts more like a turbomolecular pump than like a fan here on Earth.  Molecules are accelerated by impact with the rotating and angled blades.

As time allows, I will try to find out more about the PLSS, particularly with regard to the soft shell lay out.

Do you have a link that indicates the area you outlined is the vent?

PW

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #154 on: January 27, 2016, 04:21:35 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #155 on: January 27, 2016, 04:31:45 PM »
Quote
Your thought experiment has nothing to do with your over stated weight of the astronaut and suit on the moon.

One last time, I am fully aware that the gravity is weaker and the astronaut weighs less on the moon.  The issue is that when his feet land on the surface of the moon and make an impact resulting in a certain amount of energy that is transmitted into the lunar soil, it's his mass and his velocity that count, not his weight and velocity.

If you can't understand that, then it's hopeless.

PW stated what sublimation is and in your explanation with the "ice crystals" you seemingly ignored what he said or it all just passed right though you like you weren't even there.

Offline scratchrobot

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #156 on: January 27, 2016, 05:10:03 PM »
....

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #156 on: January 27, 2016, 05:10:03 PM »
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Offline picowatt

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #157 on: January 27, 2016, 10:12:27 PM »
I was doing some work on my bench when I realized I had a bag of small white nylon spacers laying next to me that I had purchased at the local hardware store for a recent build.

I also have a temp controlled heat gun, so just for grins I mounted the .375"OD X .170"ID X .125" thick bushing in a self closing tweezer, set the heat gun to 400F and heated the bushing for some time.  During and after heating no deformation was noted and squeezing along the diameter of the hot bushing with a needle nose pliers indicated that the bushing was only slightly soft but it immediately sprung back to being round as soon as I released the pressure.

To verify the temp, I then mounted a thermocouple between the bushing and tips of tweezer and again heated the bushing.  I took the bushing/thermocouple to 208C/407F and again tried squeezing the bushing with the pliers.  As before, it only appeared a bit soft and sprung back into shape as soon as the pressure was released.

I have no idea what type of nylon this bushing is made from, but it took the heat very well.

Back to work...

PW

Offline tinman

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #158 on: January 28, 2016, 12:26:53 AM »


If you can't understand that, then it's hopeless.

PW stated what sublimation is and in your explanation with the "ice crystals" you seemingly ignored what he said or it all just passed right though you like you weren't even there.

Quote
One last time, I am fully aware that the gravity is weaker and the astronaut weighs less on the moon.  The issue is that when his feet land on the surface of the moon and make an impact resulting in a certain amount of energy that is transmitted into the lunar soil, it's his mass and his velocity that count, not his weight and velocity.

One last time MH,if you are well  aware that his weight is less than what you stated(by over 600%),then you should also be aware that that same mass is going to have an impact that is 600% less than what you tried to present. The fact is(and you can argue all you like)that a mass that weighs 21.45kg's on the moon,is going to dissipate 600% less impact energy than a mass that weighs 130 kg's on the moon,when hitting the moon surface from the same height. As we were discussing the wavering flag on the !!moon!!,then it is clear that when you quoted your weights(more than once),you were clearly trying to increase your chances at making your ridiculous claim believable by others reading this thread. Do what you tell everyone else here to do when presenting an argument of support,or data to present your theory.

Now--you have made a claim. You now have to do what you insist we all do--carry out an experiment that supports your claim. When you have done this,i will carry out an experiment that supports my claim. When we are done,we can see who's theory is correct-->are you up for the challenge MH ? I will even allow you to use your weight of 130kg's to get your flag to wave. All you have to do is place a clear panel between the flag and the weight being dropped at around 2 feet away from the flag--it is that simple--an old glass sliding door as the divider would do just fine. You may choose any surface soil you like-soft,hard,it dose not matter.

I will then carry out my experiment,and see how my theory pans out-->are you up to the challenge MH ?. Im happy if you can not do the experiment,to get some one else to carry it out for you.
What do you say MH--shall we see if your earth quake man theory is correct?.


Brad.

P.S
Then we can try and explain as to why the hammer and feather in the hammer and feather test,fall much slower than that item did that fell out of the astronaut's PLSS unit.

Then after we have solved that,we can then move on to as why the lunar rovers(and every other motion) seem to be in slow motion,when our wonderful laws of physics say that this is impossible when the force of gravity is much less,and the fact that there is also no atmospheric resistance.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #158 on: January 28, 2016, 12:26:53 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #159 on: January 28, 2016, 12:37:50 AM »

Tinman.

The ejected stream is not ice particles.  The water ice sublimes into a gas.  Think a flow of water molecules.

The info I provided was from recollection with discussions I had with an engineer that worked at Huntsville during Apollo.  I was curious as to how heat was dealt with in a vacuum and we spent a great deal of time looking at a photo album and discussing Apollo.  Those conversations were some 45 years ago or so.  I recall there being an opening on the left side of the hard shell for the exhaust, but at my age, it would not be the first time my recollection was in error.  I also recall the O2 bottles being at the very top of the unit.

That said, I admit to being totally unfamiliar with the outer soft shell.  Even so, I find it very hard to believe the area you point out is the exhaust for the sublimator.  That looks too small and more so like the end of a strap.

The fan in the sublimator unit acts more like a turbomolecular pump than like a fan here on Earth.  Molecules are accelerated by impact with the rotating and angled blades.

As time allows, I will try to find out more about the PLSS, particularly with regard to the soft shell lay out.

Do you have a link that indicates the area you outlined is the vent?

PW

I have found many detailed drawings of the PLSS unit,but not one indicates as to where the exaust vent is. The only way i could then use to work out where the vent was,was to look at several HD expanded picture,and try and find the vent visually. The one i have circled is the only outlet i could find,and all the pictures show the left side of the PLSS unit to be totally covered in the outer soft layer and additional carry pack. There is also the fact that the flags first motion is toward the astronaut. If ejected gas was hitting the flag,causing it to move,then it's first motion should be away from the astronaut.


Brad.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #160 on: January 28, 2016, 12:39:47 AM »


Then after we have solved that,we can then move on to as why the lunar rovers(and every other motion) seem to be in slow motion,when our wonderful laws of physics say that this is impossible when the force of gravity is much less,and the fact that there is also no atmospheric resistance.


Due to much less gravity you would probably want to move slow, or inertia may take you farther than intended. :o ;D

Mags

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #160 on: January 28, 2016, 12:39:47 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #161 on: January 28, 2016, 12:44:02 AM »
Lol  Moon Sports!   How high could the basket be for a slam dunk on the moon? ;D

Mags

Offline ATOM10.01

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #162 on: January 28, 2016, 12:45:08 AM »
This is what MH stated

One last time, I am fully aware that the gravity is weaker and the astronaut weighs less on the moon.  The issue is that when his feet land on the surface of the moon and make an impact resulting in a certain amount of energy that is transmitted into the lunar soil, it's his mass and his velocity that count, not his weight and velocity. !

That's the correct answer and conforms a man on the moon !

Any one who thinks its all a load of rubbish needs there head opened up and a new brain installed ASAP ............... !

Only a complete idiot would now question man on the moon reality ....................................................................!

FACT .....




 







Offline LibreEnergia

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #163 on: January 28, 2016, 01:35:53 AM »
One last time MH,if you are well  aware that his weight is less than what you stated(by over 600%),then you should also be aware that that same mass is going to have an impact that is 600% less than what you tried to present. The fact is(and you can argue all you like)that a mass that weighs 21.45kg's on the moon,is going to dissipate 600% less impact energy than a mass that weighs 130 kg's on the moon..


The impact energy is related to mass, not weight. If you can't comprehend the difference then do us a favour and learn the difference before making such ridiculous assertions.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Moon Walkers.
« Reply #164 on: January 28, 2016, 01:43:38 AM »
Quote
One last time MH,if you are well  aware that his weight is less than what you stated(by over 600%),then you should also be aware that that same mass is going to have an impact that is 600% less than what you tried to present. The fact is(and you can argue all you like)that a mass that weighs 21.45kg's on the moon,is going to dissipate 600% less impact energy than a mass that weighs 130 kg's on the moon,when hitting the moon surface from the same height. As we were discussing the wavering flag on the !!moon!!,then it is clear that when you quoted your weights(more than once),you were clearly trying to increase your chances at making your ridiculous claim believable by others reading this thread. Do what you tell everyone else here to do when presenting an argument of support,or data to present your theory.

The problem is that you are taking my statement and re-spinning it so that it fits inside your head and works the way you want it to work and that is not going to fly because I described the situation and not you.  I made the statement.  I never said anything at all about "hitting the moon's surface from the same height."

I will say it to you again to see if it sinks in.  I simply stated that when the astronaut hits the moon's surface it could create a tremor that makes the flag shake.  I did not talk about dropping from a certain height.  I did not even mention the final velocity.

You have to look at the situation from the way I am describing it and not the way you want to describe it.

There is no comparison taking place between Earth's gravity and the moon's gravity.

When the astronaut and his space suit hits the surface of the Earth, or if he hits the surface of the moon, the energy dissipated in the impact is a function of the mass and the final velocity, and you can ignore the strength of the gravitational field.  For sure in the moon's gravity the final velocity will be less, but that's not the point.

What's the formula for the energy in the impact?  It's energy equals one-half of the mass times the square of the velocity.

You notice that there is no gravitational acceleration in the formula for the energy in the impact.

You notice that they use mass in the formula and not weight.

Now if you can understand all that then fine.  But if you are going to go back and say, "But the astronaut and space suit are one-sixth the weight and if we drop them from the same height, bla bla bla," then you are not understanding what I am saying to you and you are only capable of taking my example and "plugging it into your brain" the only way it is going to fit.

If the only way that my example is going to fit into your head is by modifying my example and answering in the only way you are capable of answering it then you have some real limitations.  You are also failing to realize that you don't have the slightest clue if the astronaut's impact will make the flag shake or not.  It's the same thing where you fail to realize that it would be impossible from just a photograph to know if you are looking at a flag made out of nylon or cotton or rayon.  Yet you claim that you can which is ridiculous.

Ultimately this is a debate about nothing because we are not disagreeing with each other, we are simply talking about different things.  Nonetheless, if you can't agree that a statement that says, "the energy of the impact an astronaut will make on the moon's surface is a function of his mass and his velocity" is true, then you have some serious problems.

 

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