Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 895736
  • *Total Topics: 15756
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 4
  • *Guests: 11
  • *Total: 15

Author Topic: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.  (Read 52702 times)

Offline thevorlon

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 85
Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #105 on: October 29, 2006, 02:25:21 AM »
Ok. What is the cheapest set of materials needed to build a LEMA (close to Steorn specs) by itself without a rotor?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline cache

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #106 on: October 29, 2006, 05:17:14 AM »
Ok. What is the cheapest set of materials needed to build a LEMA (close to Steorn specs) by itself without a rotor?

Here's my schema:

1) Get two 1/2 in. disk magnets

2) Get one piece of plastic .10 in. thickness, 3/4 in. wide, 1 in. long, a second piece same thickness and width but 3 in. long. If necessary buy a small sheet of Lexan plastic at Home Depot and cut to size. The .10 should be the max. thichness, if you have some rigid plastic sheet that is thinner, use it. You really only need 3 or more molecules minimum thickness.

3) wax paper or thin card board

4) a 4in. X 1 ft. of Cat. # A276-4 magnetic shielding at http://www.lessemf.com/mag-shld.html. This is not the highest grade sheilding but it will do. It is a foil and you can cut it to size with scissors. The 1ft. costs 4.95 but shipping is 10.00. If you buy 2 ft. shipping is 20.00. There used to be a lot of places online that sold small quanities of foil but this is the only one I know of that is not "out of stock" right now. (Yeah, we aren't the only ones trying to build a PMM, and these guys think they've found Perpetual Money Machines).

5) a few drops of super glue.

First of all, aluminum, copper, tin, lead, and most plastics have the same permeability (1) as air - they can all be glued to a magnet with no effect on the magnetic field. So, glue one of magnets to the 1 in. sheet of plastic. Then glue the other magnet next to it with both of them having the same pole up. Notice that the plastic is wider than the magnets - center the magnets so 1/8 in. sticks out past the magnets on each side and the magnets are flush with the top and bottom edge of the plastic. Now, glue the other piece of plastic to the other side of the magnets. This is the 3 in. piece - center it so 1 in. is above and 1 in. is below You should now have a plastic-magnet-plastic sandwich, like so:

      -------
      xxx xxx
---------------

The purpose of the plastic sandwich. A magnetic sheild is highly magnetized when it is wrapped around a magnet. If the shield touches the magnet the surface tension between the two breaks down and they will share electrons in the surface molecular layer. This adds to the friction resistance in sliding the sheild. If you now wrap the shielding around the plastic this is avoided and the friction is metal shielding to plastic.

Wrap two thicknesses of a 1/2 in wide strip of wax paper around the assembly side to side so it envelops one of the magnets.

Now cut a 1/2 wide strip of the shielding foil. Wrap the foil strip over the wax paper. Make cornors crisply 90 degrees as you wrap. Wrap three layers - super glue the last layer to the previous layer.

Slide the shield and wax paper off the assembly - discard the wax paper, it's only purpose was to guarantee clearance. Slide the shield back over the assembly to cover one magnet.

The 1 in. "ears" sticking out of the assembly on the one piece of plastic can be used for mounting the assembly. Glue another piece of plastic, or popsickle stick, or what have you, to the shield to move it from one magnet to the other.

Notice that this design has a major difference with Steorn's patent application. We wrapped the shield around both poles of the magnet. Their drawing only covers 1 pole and the 2 sides of the magnet, but not the opposite pole. I'm sure that after working with shields for 3 plus years they knew better and the drawing was done as a decoy for people attempting to build Steorn devices. A shield is not an insulator, it does not deflect a field. Instead it absorbs and captures the field. In doing so the shield become a magnet too. What is unique about magnets is they always have two poles - there is no such thing as a mono-polar magnet (Fred Flinstone would have created a PMM is there was). The magnetic shield has to serve as a path of least resistance conducting the field from one pole to the other, it can not do that efficiently if the shield does not completely envelope the magnet from pole to pole.

Offline cache

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #107 on: October 29, 2006, 05:23:15 AM »
Nonsense... Cams drive the timing of the internal parts of the motor on your CAR!

Thanks for the sarcastic response Kent. It worked! It made me look at the problem from right to left for the first time, and from that perspective, you're right! I'm going with cams.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #107 on: October 29, 2006, 05:23:15 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline thevorlon

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 85
Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #108 on: October 29, 2006, 06:54:08 AM »
This sounds great. We have a plan for a functioning LEMA and we are thinking about a cam to use some of the power from the rotor to move the shield. You know what? If we keep on working on this together we could have a working PMM before long!


Offline cache

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #109 on: October 29, 2006, 07:48:32 AM »
Cache,

X
       ___
   
 A      B
I think you're right, the balancing A magnet could give an extra boost at that point. But, remember that X will be moving in an arc and will have moved away fom that plane so the boost may not be much. Also, Steorn claims they are getting 250+ percent efficiency. That's 250% of the external power they use to actuate the LEMA. If we were trying to design the device that will put Con Edison out of buiness that extra boost may be really valuable. But at this point were just trying to get to that "It Works!!" momemt so I don't know if a lot of the things we worry about - extra boost, friction, precision timing, etc are that important. There seems to be an abundance of energy available once the relationships of parts is made.

I believe you and I have the same idea. We're looking for a design that validates the concept, continuing to run and produce some demonstrable excess work. Something people can build from instructions, even if we have to provide some basic milled parts. Now that the world knows about Steorn's claims it will be hard for university department heads to deny it works if every highschool science fair has one. So, simple is better. That's the main reason why I've changed over to a cam design (even though electronic ignition does work better than the old cam/gear driven rotor). That high school kid has got to be able to explain it.


My fear is that the jury thing will backfire. That it will be a hung jury, or that the jury will affirm it and unleash a scientific fundamentalist backlash. There are "scientists" who still don't believe in evolution or global warming for religious and political reasons. Worse, it's almost impossible to get a scientist to admit that Newton had to invent a supernatural force called "gravity" to explain why things fall down with no ideas about how gravity even works (or why it travels faster than light).


In my opinion, that has to be the key to the LEMA. Because otherwise anyone could have created a system to simply move a shield back and fourth infront of a magnet. The principle of the LEMA must be that it's VERY efficent at moving the shield.

I agree. The boys at Steorn did not have more than one discovery that produced over-unity. They discovered this by chance and mathematically they could not have had two unique discoveries at one instance. So I've assumed from the beginning that the key is in finding the one thing they did that was unique. I haven't even considered how much lower the Low Energy Magnetic Actuator is compared to the High Energy Magnetic Actuator or even the Medium Energy Magnetic Actuator.   I just assume it is lower than not using it, since there are dozens of proposals for sheilding PMM that have failed that didn't use it. And since the guys who did use it claim their PMM works enough to put their money where their mouth is, I assume it was low enough.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #109 on: October 29, 2006, 07:48:32 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline thevorlon

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 85
Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #110 on: October 29, 2006, 09:42:34 AM »
Cache,

First of all, I think we need to test the LEMA because if it's truly over-unity that is amazing all by itself. If we can get an over-unity magnet motor then suddenly it's then possible to have one. The truth will be out that magnets are indeed gushing out energy from the vacumm (in this case at least part of is their magnetic field) that is just waiting for us to tap into. If we can prove the LEMA technology is indeed over-unity then tons of other permanent magnet motors will follow.

But at the same time I don't want to think that this is Steorn's only technology or discovery. I know your sick of me defending them, but they have specifically said repeatedly that the LEMA has nothing to do with their *current* over-unity device and their current device does not use shielding. Without going over all their statements they have basically told us their current technology only involves permanent magnets in special configurations using specific trajectories that may not be simple circles. In one part of the cycle energy is gained and in the other it's lost. Also, if you move the rotor backwards for a whole cycle energy is lost, but if you move it forward it's gained.

To be honest, their explanation of their technology with permanent magnets does not sound like the LEMA. The LEMA would not need any special configuration of permanent magnets, would not lose energy by going the opposite direction (because you could spin the LEMA in either direction and make it work), and does not lose energy in any part of the cycle because there is only one part of the cycle at the LEMA where energy is given.

Now, I'm excited about the LEMA because quite frankly it's something that's pretty simple to understand and it's something we have details about. But at the same time I'm still curious about the other technology they might have.

I'm not trying to be stubborn here. I'm just don't like the idea that they are lying to us and hope that they are telling the truth.

Anyway, back to the LEMA.

What is the simplest CAM design you can think of to move the LEMA back and fourth? In my opinion, we need to move it back and fourth to get the MAXIMUM ammount of propulsion from both magnets. You see, we need it to have enough power to spin, keep spinning, and turn the CAM to move the shield. The more efficent we can make the device the more likely it's to work.

If we can get one simple self-running LEMA based permanent magnet motor working then it's going to stun the world.

Honestly, I don't think scientists would be able to criticise it for too long. For example, at worst I think some of Steorn's jury members will probably drag it on and on rather than admit to positive results. But in the end if you have a permanent magnet motor running for weeks on end right infront of you that's totally self powered it's kinda hard to deny reality.

Also, it's going to make it harder for them if we can get Steorn's technology self-running. Of course the LEMA might not be Steorn's only technology, but just the fact any PMM is running and being replicated by thousands of people would certainly encourage them to admit the truth that it's real.

What we really need is a plan that anyone could follow to build the simplest LEMA based PMM possible.

What we need to do obviously get one working first. But then we need to be able to list specific part numbers from various companies down to the very last screw, magnet, gear, shielding material, and bottle of glue. Then we need precise step by step instructions.

This must be so simple that an amateur (like myself) could build it.

If we can get to that point the replications will take off like wild fire!

Offline Kent767

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 31
Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #111 on: October 29, 2006, 01:02:51 PM »
What is the simplest CAM design you can think of to move the LEMA back and fourth? In my opinion, we need to move it back and fourth to get the MAXIMUM ammount of propulsion from both magnets. You see, we need it to have enough power to spin, keep spinning, and turn the CAM to move the shield. The more efficent we can make the device the more likely it's to work.

The CAM is used for timing and actuating the actuator (heh), so the setup of the LEMA / Rotor will determine that.


I'll draw up some examples.. but the important thing to note here, (IMO) we need the lema to actuate orthogonal to the rotor, any movement going side to side or back and forth will require more effort than moving up and down ( assuming the rotor is horizontal)


Also to Cache:
  Thats why we meet here so we can throw ideas around :)

BTW I'm not convinced this will be pulling energy from some imaginary source.  There is another claim by Steorn that I do find hard to swallow.  That all this occurs without the magnet degrading in strength.  I'm more curious hwo much we can get out of a magnet.  But we'll see :)
Kent

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #111 on: October 29, 2006, 01:02:51 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline smarthousesys

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #112 on: October 29, 2006, 02:26:44 PM »
The Russian magent motor reference is interesting. In the transaltion on that thread on March 22 there is the following

------------------
RECOMMENDATIONS ON MANUFACTURING

The practical effect of the magnetic field turned out to be quite an important feature in manufacturing. It was found that the shade must be sufficiently large so that less of its sides cross the magnetic field. (see Fig. 3). Best if it is on, that is, the one which covers the magnets. The form of the bounds is best to match the form of the magnet. My shade is rectangular.
I found a practical solution for overcoming the attracting force of the upper magnet field. It is necessary to increase the sirface area of the magnet so that the shade will always be in the magnetic field when it moves. The simplest is to place one more magnet in the path of shifting the shade, which I actually did in my model.
------------------------

This is obviously a reference to the same principle used by Steorn in the LEMA patent. Does it predate the issued patent?


Offline gyulasun

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4071
Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #113 on: October 29, 2006, 04:28:24 PM »
...But, I have a couple of ideas for doing that with power from the device itself. The device's rotating shaft is a good place to mount a second set of magnets within a coil producing a dynamo-type electric current...

Could you incorporate the magnet(s) into a flywheel somehow?
Mount an inductive pickup near the circumference and use the induced pulse to compensate for the 20% that gets through the shielding.

Another coil (feed-forward) near the 'sticky' point could provide the inductive kick you require. see attachment

Hi Pinestone,

I think you show an interesting idea in your attachment, thank you. I am trying to digest it though but let's discuss it.  You placed the magnets on the flywheel with alternating poles but the diode is able to switch on and pass current by one specific pole only: when the opposite pole comes to induce, the diode is closed, isn't it?  Hence why for the need of 4 magnets?   Possibly I am missing something here, could you explain?   
I understand that the diode is also good for preventing current coming FROM the other (existing) motor, this seems a great idea.

Thanks,
Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #113 on: October 29, 2006, 04:28:24 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline cache

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #114 on: October 29, 2006, 07:46:28 PM »
The Russian magent motor reference is interesting. ... The simplest is to place one more magnet in the path of shifting the shade, which I actually did in my model.
------------------------
This is obviously a reference to the same principle used by Steorn in the LEMA patent. Does it predate the issued patent?

You are quite right smarthousesys, that describes the LEMA configuration and the reason for using it. Anatoliy's verifiable date of conception will determine whether that predates Steorn's date of conception. If it does it invalidate their patent. However, the dates on Anatoliy's website are Jan 2005. Steorn made their first discovery 3 years ago. If the LEMA effect was what the discovered back then, they probably have claim to priority.

What's important is that Anatoliy seems to validate the LEMA effect. What's discouraging is Anatoliy is not claiming his Nobel winning Eureka moment yet.

Offline cache

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #115 on: October 29, 2006, 09:01:01 PM »
Clockwise rotation

(http://www.steornquest.com/thesite/discrotor.gif)

gotta go mulch leaves --- later...
« Last Edit: November 20, 2006, 06:13:38 PM by cache »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #115 on: October 29, 2006, 09:01:01 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline smarthousesys

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #116 on: October 29, 2006, 09:20:09 PM »
I really wonder if you can use a lema in any scheme that has magnets on the rotor. Basically the shielding takes effect blocks off the magnets in the lema and then the rotor magnets are simply attracted to the shielding and you are back where you started- sticky point.

Offline thevorlon

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 85
Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #117 on: October 29, 2006, 09:44:02 PM »
I urge all of you to read the following statements from Sean McCarthy on the Steorn forum. It directly relates to the LEMA.

It seems to me that he is trying to say that you could not get more energy out of a PMM using the LEMA than you would put in moving the shield back and fourth. Apparently, the repulsive magnet would come into play and cause a problem if I am understanding this correctly. 

Quote
Hi Folks,

I know that a lot of people have been asking if LEMA part of our OU technology and if not what is it and why did we design it?

The answer is no, it is not part of the OU technology. As previously stated we have developed several anti-counterfeit technologies in the past, these technologies where developed for a client FraudHalt (you can see a quick overview of the technologies at http://www.fraudhalt.com/demos/)

As you can see both of these technologies have a very heavy optics involvement. Anyone who works with optics will know that you typically build prototypes on an optical bench.

So? Well optical benches use magnetic clamps - these type of clamp are turned on and off by moving a shield in front of the clamping magnet. LEMA was a concept to help reduce the force that the person using the clamp has to apply in the camping/unclamping of these types of devices.

Thanks,

Sean


Hi bobcat,

Lets take an objective view of LEMA. It is in essence designed to reduce the force required to actuate a magnetic field (as noted above). However it is interesting to take an energy view of what is happening.

Assume the LEMA unit is standing upright. If you remove the top magnet and move the shield up and down (excluding friction) you will get a net zero energy balance. Why? Because the energy you put into moving the shield up will be regained when the shield is pulled back into its original position. Adding the second magnet does not change the net zero energy sum, just the level of forces (and hence energy) involved.

So in a friction free world you have the ability to create a machine with a LEMA type device that gives you a fluctuating magnetic field for no energy. So if LEMA can be used to develop an OU device then you need to be able to harness this field without substantially changing the net energy profile of LEMA.

Thanks,

Sean


Hi bobcat,

The key issue is what is the energy equation when you switch the shield in the presence of another magnetic field? The best thing to do would be to test this
(a force meter would be required). I think that you will find that the net energy equation for such a system will sum to zero.

Thanks,

Sean


Offline gyulasun

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4071
Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #118 on: October 29, 2006, 11:44:05 PM »
I really wonder if you can use a lema in any scheme that has magnets on the rotor. Basically the shielding takes effect blocks off the magnets in the lema and then the rotor magnets are simply attracted to the shielding and you are back where you started- sticky point.

Hi,

Basically you are right BUT by carefully selecting the thickness of the shield, the distances between the shield and both the rotor / stator magnets you can get a setup where the following should happen: as the rotor magnet approaches the shield there will be a small attraction force between them (the thickness of the shield can be a bit higher at the entering side than at the leaving side for instance this is one trick) and the attraction force diminishes to nearly neutral when the rotor magnet is facing the still just covered stator magnet.

I included my drawing on how I think to use the LEMA concept in a permanent magnet motor.
I prefer using longer magnets of either cylindrical or rectangular shape (the length is chosen to minimize the effect of the opposite poles).
The position of the arms operating the shields is shown just before the moment the shields are about to move: the upper shield will be shifted to the left, the lower shield will be shifted to the right when the arms are activated by the rotor.  Several refinements are still needed.  AND much experimenting with the thickness/shape of the shield is also needed.
I will try to build such a setup I drew in the next couple of weeks as my free time lets it.

Comments are welcome.

Regards
Gyula
     

Offline pinestone

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
    • bending light with magnetism...
Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #119 on: October 30, 2006, 03:21:08 AM »
[\quote] Gyulasun       ...Hence why for the need of 4 magnets?   Possibly I am missing something here, could you explain?[/quote]

Thanks for pointing that out.

OK I'll elaborate a bit:

You can use the magnets in what ever configuration you require.
I don't know how your motor is built. I was just trying to show a method of 'kicking past' the 'sticky spot' where opposing polarities meet.

If you need an N pulse, then the flywheel magnet should be north polarity at the point at which it passes the pickup coil. If you need a S pulse, just flip it around.

You may need to reverse the polarity on the diode, too for your individual application.

It wasn't ment to be an exact diagram, but only a mechanical/electrical concept drawing.

I haven't had the time to read the entire thread, but I did notice you folks talking about getting 'stuck'.

∞


 

OneLink