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Author Topic: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.  (Read 50448 times)

Offline Kent767

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #60 on: October 27, 2006, 12:50:09 AM »
I think if we're going to do this we should get a small list of design ideas and try them independently.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline thevorlon

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #61 on: October 27, 2006, 12:54:12 AM »
I'm trying to understand exactly what the LEMA is doing. It would have been nice if the patents included a quick video or diagram of the rotor in relation to the magnets and shield of the LEMA.

Basically, we all know to get past the sticky spot in a magnetic motor you either have to do something not yet discovered (or discovered and suppressed) to get the rotor past that spot or you have to use some type of shielding. So the function of the shield to block one of the magnets is logical. However, what I don't understand is how this setup is creating the magnetic rail to slide so easily back and fourth. What is going on with that? Let me ask a few questions.

1) When used to power a rotor is the rail supposed to be bolted down or the the shield and base of the LEMA? What I'm trying to ask is what exactly moves and what stays still.

2) Everyone is saying the LEMA is used to balance magnets. That is a concept I don't yet have my mind around. What do you mean by balancing? Does this relate to making it easy (low energy) to move the shield and/or rail (which one moves by the way?) back and fourth?

3) Could someone post a simple diagram of how the LEMA would position itself next to a rotor?

---

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Perhaps Steorn has two major inventions. The LEMA and whatever technology they are using now that has nothing to do with the LEMA.

Offline Kent767

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #62 on: October 27, 2006, 01:00:53 AM »
sure....

1. Really either part can move, the shield can move up, or the magnet can move down, 6 one half a dozen the other..

2. The idea of balancing magnets gets back to this 1 point.  The flux needs to remain constant, if the flux decreases then the magnetic attraction between the shield and the magnet become stronger, (The balancing is done like this) Imagine the shield in the off position, (Shield positioned to cover hte top magnet), now move it 1/4th to the 'on' position, the shield would cover 3/4's of one magnet and 1/4th the other, flux hasn't changed, shield moves smoothly.  This process can continue, imagine the shield covering half of each magnet, flux still hasn't changed, the shield can move easily)

The basic idea is that the lema allows you to do the effect of moving the magnet from 1 position to the other (its a seperate magnet, but the field strenght is equal) without the difficulty of overcoming magnetic attraction in the process...

3.  I'll try to draw something up for you very soon.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #62 on: October 27, 2006, 01:00:53 AM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #63 on: October 27, 2006, 01:04:50 AM »
I really do not care about steorns design, He "borrowed" it from someone else,that's how evolution and invention works. Im not sure your getting this at all,read steorns patent, if you actually read it- on page 8 section 0030 it reads as follows-
"The drive mechanism(not shown)for the shield is provided by an external force such as a solenoid,linear motor or the like"

Offline allcanadian

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #64 on: October 27, 2006, 01:07:21 AM »
I have the patent right in front of me if you want to understand what he is doing?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #64 on: October 27, 2006, 01:07:21 AM »
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Offline Kent767

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #65 on: October 27, 2006, 01:10:33 AM »
I've read the patent as well, and I don't doubt that it has been developed before...

there's nothing specifically wrong with using a solenoid or linear motor, but there's also no reason it couldn't be driven mechanically, that I know of.. unless speed is paramount to the operation of the motor (I don't know I haven't built one)


Vorlorn, I can't seem to draw very well, so I also suggest looking at the patent...

what you need to look for is the fact that in any position of the actuator, the shield is going to cover the equivalent of 1 magnet.

I hope that makes sense, because that is the basic idea behind why its 'low energy',

Offline allcanadian

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #66 on: October 27, 2006, 01:16:20 AM »
I think you have it explained pretty well kent, what I would like to know is does the actuators magnet field (1)repel another magnet (2) attract another magnet or (3) attract an aron core on a rotor?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #66 on: October 27, 2006, 01:16:20 AM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #67 on: October 27, 2006, 01:18:55 AM »
I have the actuator built and it works,now the hard part anyone want to take a guess 1,2,3?

Offline Kent767

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #68 on: October 27, 2006, 01:19:52 AM »
Depends on what you put on te other side of the actuator :P

In my design, it would attract another magnet...

if it was designed to repel another magnet, it'd simply spin the other way.. (but the shields would also have to work backwards to my design)



3rd option is not good IMO, you risk magnetising a piece of iron, and the thing would not work after a while..


The crux of the issue here is timing... when to turn on and off the shield... and how quickly must it be done?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #68 on: October 27, 2006, 01:19:52 AM »
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Offline thevorlon

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #69 on: October 27, 2006, 01:22:34 AM »
I'm basically understanding this partially a little better now. So since the shield only covers one magnet the that magnet's flux is not really blocked, but just re-directed since the three magnets together form one big field there is no attraction between the shield and the magnet it's covering?

Ok. I *think* that I understand that part. Please correct me if I'm incorrect or add anything that I should know.

Now, what I need to understand in my head is the pattern of moving the shield related to the magnets on a rotor. Could someone explain this concept to me? I'm re-reading the patents again as we speak.

Offline Kent767

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #70 on: October 27, 2006, 01:23:39 AM »
IN follow up.. to my last post..

the way i imagined it..

For a repelling design..


immediately after the magnet passes the shield, the shield would open, forcing the rotor to spin, when the rotor is at around 179 degrees, the shield covers the magnet again


this could be accomplished with a cam...


for an attractive version its similar, at 181 degrees, the magnet opens, causing attraction, just before the magnet crosses the shield, it covers it again, allowing momentum to carry the rotor past..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #70 on: October 27, 2006, 01:23:39 AM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #71 on: October 27, 2006, 01:25:10 AM »
You have that right, the issue I have as well is if you have a magnet on the rotor then the rotor magnet has an effect the shield, will the rotor magnet pull on the shield, it would have to be at right angles to avoid drag. Im going to try magnets in attraction first, I don't like repulsion it weakens magnets,then soft iron plates on the rotor.

JackFrost

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #72 on: October 27, 2006, 01:28:52 AM »
I already stated that the shielded magnet will attract another magnet even if the poles are opposing.  But when you pull the shield off - wham! Just like that.

Here, try this:
Get a couple of identical magnets and a piece of steel large enough to cover the entire face plus enough to hang off the side so you can slide it off with your fingers.

Mark the "like" poles with a marker, and wave the like face past each other and you can fell the push before and after the faces are aligned.

Cover this pole face of one of the magnets with the steel.  If the steel is thick enough - the faces will now "attract" - don't get too excited - devices using that little feature date back to the 1800's.

Now cover half of the face of the one magnet and wave the other past it.  You feel a pull on the shield side, a flat spot in the middle, and a push at the uncovered side.

You will always have the flat spot in the middle unless you can shape the field to only go one-way.  Covering the face of fixed magnet allows the rotating magnets to face the opposing magnet without being pushed away.  Once the magnets are facing each other, the shield is moved to expose the face and the repulsive force pushes the rotating magnet away.

The tricky part is to find a way to time the shield and to move the shield with very little force.


A word about "trajectory" - if you bring the magnets close with the opposing faces at and angle that minimizes the opposing force and then rotate the on coming in or push it out at a different angle - you'll get what Shaun is talking about.

Offline allcanadian

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #73 on: October 27, 2006, 01:28:19 AM »
kent i just read your post- maybe I do like repusion? the rotor magnet would be attracted to the shield first,the shield opens, then repulsion.The attraction gives it the extra pull, but will the magnets weaken?

Offline Kent767

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #74 on: October 27, 2006, 01:32:32 AM »
yeah I imagine the magnets would weaken,

I'm trying to draw up another design, using attraction.. but the only Idea I have would involve 4 magnets, all poles facing together at the center point of the rotor (this would also weaken the 4 magnets.. so i'm trying to come up with a 1 magnet attraction method)

 

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