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Author Topic: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.  (Read 50254 times)

Offline Speedy23

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2006, 02:30:20 PM »
Just a quickie -  can anyone with access to a model railway track and a truck, some mu-metal , 3 magnets and a spring balance verify that the main principle of the LEMA (i.e. that the force required to move the shield is much lower when balancing magnets are used) is in fact true, and if so, what order the difference is. I am wondering if the reason that the prototypes are described as generating "mechanical power" is that the motion generated is RECIPROCAL rather than ROTARY. Think steam engines.......also, how any form of mechanical cam is used to set the timing of the shields and/or magnet rotation thus achieving slow approach/rapid recession...might this  also be governed by shaping the shields appropriately. Is the significant bit in the interview the mention of "six fields"...... ???

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Offline thevorlon

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2006, 03:45:57 PM »
Well, I'm going with the idea that the LEMA has nothing to do with producing overunity. That is what Steorn is saying and according to this project we have to try and replicate what they claim to have made.

Actually, I'm glad of this. Honestly, for the laymen building a simple arrangment of magnets is indeed possible, but switching and more complicated circuits might be out of our league.

JackFrost

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2006, 03:55:18 PM »
The LEMA has EVERYTHING to do with it.

Trajectory is BS.  You have to shield - period.  Otherwise, the field vectors won't allow it to run continuous.  Shaun has his balls in the skillet an he's trying to get them out by throwing some BS variables into the equation.

Shaun's original response to the patents question:
"Hi, the patent refered to (the low energy magnetic actuator) is not a patent on the core steorn technology. Due to the fact that the US patent office does not allow patents with this claim we have filed a sequence of patents wich describe various aspects of the technology.

The patent refered to is at the PCT stage and hence is available to the public. Our other patents are currently pre-PCT and will move to the PCT phase (and hence be available to the public) in the near future.

Thanks,

The Steorn Team "

Here is the link to this thread:
http://www.steorn.net/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=41&Focus=131#Comment_131

(EDIT) "Cache" - is close but hasn't built one or he would have it nailed down.  By the way, the images on Steornquest.com (same as the ones on simplemotor.com) will not work as shown.

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2006, 03:55:18 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2006, 05:27:07 PM »
"Cache" - is close but hasn't built one or he would have it nailed down.  By the way, the images on Steornquest.com (same as the ones on simplemotor.com) will not work as shown.

Dear JackFrost,

Would you be so kind as to enlighten us what modifications are needed to make them work?

Regards
Gyula

Offline thevorlon

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2006, 05:31:31 PM »
Steorn has said that the LEMA has NOTHING to do with their overunity technology. Also, they have said they are not using magnetic shielding.

However, can't you manipulate the flux of one magnet with another magnet's flux? Could it be that by now they have found ways of manipulating the flux to eliminate the sticky points rather than using the LEMA?

My hope is that they are not lying to us. Sean McCarthy sounds ike an honest and trustworthy person to me, and I don't want to think he would mislead us.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2006, 05:31:31 PM »
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Offline Speedy23

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2006, 07:21:21 PM »
How about this: mechanism consists of 2 pairs balancing magnets and shield at either end as per LFMA patent, 2 reciprocating connecting rods each terminating in S & N pole magnets as shown below, con rods to be  linked together by rachet or escapement "X"  and  suitable linkages from ratchet to move shields from (a) to (b).  (I= shield, <- or -> = force direction and conrod/magnet assembly motion )

(a)

N           S------------------N I S     F and motion = <-
                     X
N I S------------------N           S     F and motion = ->


(b)
then switch the shield position by a linkage from "X"  so:

N I S-------------------N           S    F = ->
                      X
N             S------------------N I S    F = <-


Question: would this "hang"?.....or by timing the insertion/shaping of the shield and using a suitable flywheel on the rachet could this be overcome?

Offline cache

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2006, 08:13:21 PM »
thevorlon - your comment that Steorn may have used a shield in the past but do not use it on their current desiogn is possible. But, if that is true, Sean is still not being honest by saying it has nothing to do with it. Quit trying to defend Steorn. They are trying to validate and defend their invention, give them the space to do what they must to accomplish those goals. At the end of the day it matters not to the world or Steorn whether you or I got mislead along the way.

That said, suppose you're right, suppose they used a shield in an earlier design but now do not. Why chose to replicate one over the other. If we can replicate either we have proof of over-unity. Steorn has given us no clues at all on how to build without a shield. On the other hand, if we try to replicate a shield type design Steorn has given us clues to work with. There have been hundreds of serious proposals for non-shielded motors, none of which work. The best way to start building a non-shielded motor (absent any clues from Steorn) would be to cook up one more design that is different from all of the hundreds that do not work. The starting point for building a shielded motor is to review the two or three serious past proposals for a sheilded motor and isolate what is unique about Sterorn's LEMA clue.

We are not trying to re-invent the wheel here pal, we're just trying to re-invent Steorn's wheel.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2006, 08:52:22 PM by cache »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2006, 08:13:21 PM »
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Offline thevorlon

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2006, 08:16:15 PM »
Speedy,

That sounds like an interesting setup.

I do have a question I would like to ask about magnets. I was going to order some magnets last night, and spent about five hours looking up information about them online. However, I have never handled a neomydium magnet before. Just how strong are they? I need some idea before I make an order or at least further consider what I'm going to try and build.

How far away is the repulsive force for smaller neomydiums lets say one half to three quarters of an inch in diameter and about one eighth inch thick? I mean, what is the maximum distance that they will interact with one another? What about for a full one inch diameter and eighth inch thick magnet?

Also, does the field extend further out when you have more surface area?

Also, does anyone here know of some free flux mapping software which will map the various shape of flux of various shapes/sizes of magnets?

JackFrost

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2006, 08:23:01 PM »
Gentlemen,

Don't be so gulible.  The word trajectory wasn't being tossed around two months ago - was it?  Steorn was not flat-out denying that the LEMA had anything to do with the OU device.  Now - "mums" the word and deny, deny, deny.

USPTO already has at least a dozen other patents for PMM's that require no input power and run continuously (at least that is what they claim).

Why complicate something that works with fancy trajectories.  Shaun stated that the trajectory results in a velocity hit on the way in and a plus on the way out - and the plus out is larger than the hit in.  Then you have to balance it, yada yada yada...

With a shield (properly called a "shunt") you get a plus on the way in AND on the way out.

The only thing unique about the LEMA is the method in wich the shield is allowed to move - i.e. on a rail (linear bearing) .  There must be at least 20 other ways to do this without the rail.

Software?!?!? Never held a magnet?!?!?  I'm waisting my time....

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2006, 08:23:01 PM »
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Offline thevorlon

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2006, 08:24:24 PM »
Cache,

I'm trying to defend Steorn simply because (not accusing YOU of being this way) so many people have bashed and attacked them recently in a ruthless sort of way. I can understand honest but open minded skepticism. That's a good thing. But downright closed minded, hateful, and spiteful slander is quite something else. I'm sick of it.

Your right in one thing. We can try to both replicate the technology with the LEMA design and some of us can try with just permanent magnets. And your right, if either one gets built and becomes truly over-unity the goal has been accomplished.

However, what I'm hoping is that we can build a device where we don't have to use batteries or electrical means to move some shield around. People will then jump up and attack us by saying that we are using more energy moving the shield than what we are getting. Even if some of us use shielding in our attempts I hope we can build something where you place the magnets and shields in certain positions and the device starts to work.

Offline thevorlon

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2006, 08:28:31 PM »
Jack Frost,

Please don't leave us. We need all of our minds working together on this.

Are you trying to say that by having a gain in one part of the rotation and a loss in the other that it means the LEMA is not being utilized, because the LEMA would allow for just one spot that always gives accleration? That makes perfect sense to me. Actually, I hope this is true because it means we might not need some type of mechanical moving stator. Is this what you are trying to say Jack Frost?

By the way, I have held a magnet. But never a neomydium magnet. I am trying to think of various magnetic configurations in my mind, but I'm just trying to get an idea of the kind of force these much more powerful magnets produce.

I'll admit I'm not an engineer, scientists, or even self-educated expert in this. I'm a novice, but I'm facinated, curious, and willing to learn.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2006, 08:28:31 PM »
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Offline Kent767

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2006, 09:25:38 PM »
You dont need electricity to power the LEMA..

here's a concept I was thinking of... easy to build probably, but I think there may be a flaw, (the magnet that comes out the bottom of the LEMA would still exert a force, maybe there should be 2 rotors... here's a starting idea... sorry for the crappy drawing.

everything you see is gear driven... the movement of hte shield is controlled by the gears..

consists of 5 gears, a rotating arm(or plate), and a crank shaft, 4 LEMA, and 1 additional magnet on the plate.

the only NON gear part (other than the magnets/LEMAs)  here is the long verticle rectangle (thats the crank shaft)
(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/138/awh9.jpg)


Offline Kent767

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2006, 09:58:24 PM »
sorry for double post...

as a followup... all gears would need to be of equal size, or timing would be wrong, as such the scale of my drawing is off...
(the bottom gear that drives the LEMA gears would need to be the same size as the lema gears)
hopefully its at least somewhat clear enough for someone to get an idea..


Offline allcanadian

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2006, 11:18:49 PM »
I think steorn is full of it- the LEMA is his core technology, his patent is all over the net and he is trying to confuse people. He isn't smart enough to make a complicated patent so he patents the core technology, he regrets his actions because everyone and there dog is going to build one-not buy one. So he starts spreading dis-information to confuse people which from reading this web page he seems to have done. I think the steorn Quest site has it bang on- only the actuator on the motor should have 3 magnets,the shield covering 2 of them at a time. So one magnet is exposed alternately on the ends of the actuator, so why not have 2 rotors-each rotor interacting with the end magnet being exposed then covered.Then the shield balances on the three actuator magnets=small input, the rotor has a large force because the rotor magnet approaching the non-covered magnet has a greater pull force than the other rotor magnet attracted to the closed shield but moving away from it. And why use a solenoid? If this apparatus produces more power than is used to move the shield then you put a cam on the rotor to move the shield at the right time,which is way more efficient and easier to build.As well, someone mentioned a linear track-the steorn patent shows one and this verifies there limited engineering ability,this is a useless idea- how many machines do you know of that use a linear track? exactly my point, they are good for slow heavy machinery nothing else. Im going to build the better motor I explained and I will let you know what happens.
best of luck

Offline thevorlon

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Re: The Steorn Permanent Magnet Motor Replication Project: It's FLUX time.
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2006, 11:31:59 PM »
Alright. It seems we have two camps. One camp that believes the LEMA is the key to their over-unity device and another that does not believe it's the key to making their device work. Basically, we have the LEMA camp, another group who thinks the timing of bringing magnets closer and then apart, and others who think it's just a configuration of permanent magnets.

Of course everyone should be free to try and replicate whatever they want.

All I'm hoping for is that one of these methods will work, create overunity, and the world will unlimited clean abundant energy.

However, let me ask you this. In the LEMA setup at www.steornquest.com would the shielding of the actuator eventually become magnetized and useless? I know that ferramagnetic materials can become magnetized if exposed to a magnetic field for long enough. Are there any materials that could be used that would not become magnetized and lose their effectiveness?

 

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