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Solid States Devices => Tesla Technologgy => Topic started by: antimony on January 02, 2016, 10:06:03 PM

Title: Electret antenna out of an coaxial cable?
Post by: antimony on January 02, 2016, 10:06:03 PM
Hi, i have for some time been thinking about trying to collect some radiant energy, and i found out about a company called Ion power group (ionpowergroup.com) that Lasersable are working with. Check this video out if you haven´t already seen it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENeDkGce5-4

Anyway, i googled "ion power group" to read their patents, and then i also found among the listings another interesting site called nuenergy.org, where i read that you can make a anthenna from coaxial cable.
You have to condition it first so it developes a better electret effect for collecting atmospheric electricity.
You do so by stripping the cables outer layer of isolating plastic, and baking it in the oven for a while so the inner isolating layer will start to melt onto the inner copper wire, creating up to 10 times better electricity collection.

Here´s the link.
http://www.nuenergy.org/radiant-energy-diatribe/

I am in the process of stripping a piece of coaxial cable now, and i will try this. Have anybody else also done this?

I was going to post some pictures, but i cant find the phone on the laptop when i connect it.
Anyway, it´s not very interesting pictures anyway, but i can try again later.

Title: Re: Electret antenna out of an coaxial cable?
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 03, 2016, 09:10:05 AM
sounds interesting.

keep us posted on what you find.
Title: Re: Electret antenna out of an coaxial cable?
Post by: Nink on January 04, 2016, 11:05:18 PM
Interesting:  Idea take 4 quad copters and place them say 100ft apart.  Now take some spun graphene thread (super conductive and super light) and place it between all 4 of them/ Now run one wire from one of the quads to the ground....  If we can generate enough power at very high levels could we keep all 4 quads in the air at say 1000 feet.    I am not sure how many amps we are talking about.  Looking at their "patented down converter" it does not look like a lot. 

You could use 4 quads hovering at 1000 feet constantly  for everything from cell phone antennas to providing wifi, live earth video etc

FYI QUAD COPTER ATMOSPHERE POWER COLLECTORS IS NOW PATENT PENDING NINK :-)
Title: Re: Electret antenna out of an coaxial cable?
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 06, 2016, 05:49:11 PM
using pulsed-power signals to run those motors has had a lot of success in lowering power requirements per lift force.
increasing the runtime for the copters and gyros
as it turns out, pulsing the motor doesn't change the momentum a whole lot, so you still maintain a stable lift/wind force.
but run the motor at the same rpm, using a lower/shorter duty cycle.

Title: Re: Electret antenna out of an coaxial cable?
Post by: FatBird on January 06, 2016, 07:52:03 PM
Thank you for sharing everything.  Sounds really interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENeDkGce5-4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENeDkGce5-4)

                                                                                                             .
Title: Re: Electret antenna out of an coaxial cable?
Post by: Nink on January 07, 2016, 03:05:16 AM
using pulsed-power signals to run those motors has had a lot of success in lowering power requirements per lift force.
increasing the runtime for the copters and gyros
as it turns out, pulsing the motor doesn't change the momentum a whole lot, so you still maintain a stable lift/wind force.
but run the motor at the same rpm, using a lower/shorter duty cycle.

Interesting, drone flight times are a real problem.  I have a low end quad that only gets ~ 7 minutes and a high end phantom with a 4480 mAh battery that only gets ~20 minutes.  Has anyone built a pulse motor drone?

Title: Re: Electret antenna out of an coaxial cable?
Post by: Magluvin on January 07, 2016, 03:49:50 AM
using pulsed-power signals to run those motors has had a lot of success in lowering power requirements per lift force.
increasing the runtime for the copters and gyros
as it turns out, pulsing the motor doesn't change the momentum a whole lot, so you still maintain a stable lift/wind force.
but run the motor at the same rpm, using a lower/shorter duty cycle.

Hmm.  So are drone motors not pwm typically?

What you wrote maybe hit something on the head for me.

My electric bike hub motor is pwm till full throttle then is just putting battery to the windings with timing, looking at it with a scope. I had found that when I back off of the throttle some it has a bit more go.  ;)

I mentioned this in Lucs sharing thread also.   Been thinking on ways to separate the windings of these multi phase motors so the windings are not connected to each other and have their own drive circuits. The reason being it is impossible to collect bemf from the windings when they are all connected. So in a way treat the drive coils like an inductor of a switching supply where we have electrical output from the circuit while still driving the motor. ;)

Mags
Title: Re: Electret antenna out of an coaxial cable?
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 07, 2016, 06:37:02 AM
Hmm.  So are drone motors not pwm typically?

What you wrote maybe hit something on the head for me.

My electric bike hub motor is pwm till full throttle then is just putting battery to the windings with timing, looking at it with a scope. I had found that when I back off of the throttle some it has a bit more go.  ;)

I mentioned this in Lucs sharing thread also.   Been thinking on ways to separate the windings of these multi phase motors so the windings are not connected to each other and have their own drive circuits. The reason being it is impossible to collect bemf from the windings when they are all connected. So in a way treat the drive coils like an inductor of a switching supply where we have electrical output from the circuit while still driving the motor. ;)

Mags

I guess it depends on what type of bike motor you have.
the two types I have seen are a simple DC motor circuit, with a variable resistance.
and another with a stepper motor controlled by the throttle.

I guess you can say the same with the drones, but the more complex you get, the more likely
they would have implemented stepper motors. controlled by a logic circuit.
like a quad-copter

by pulsing the power or having an "off time" added to the duty-cycle
you decrease the power over time
if this can be done in a manner which does not allow the rotor to significantly slow down
then the overall energy to maintain the desired RPM, will be decreased.

I learned this while connecting DC motors to a joule thief,
and comparing them to an identical motor with straight DC
then realized you can implement the same effect in a stepper motor, or even A/C motors,
tri-phase gets a bit more complicated, but its not impossible.


Title: Re: Electret antenna out of an coaxial cable?
Post by: Nink on January 08, 2016, 05:15:28 AM
Wouldn't the downward force of the drone increase drag significantly on the blades with PWM resulting in a significant slow down of the motor.  Maybe if we combined a magnetic pulse motor with PWM the increased efficiency we could offset any degradation in performance but we would also have the increased mass with the magnets, coils  and housing of the pulse motor to contend with.

Maybe all we really need is some helium balloons :-)

Title: Re: Electret antenna out of an coaxial cable?
Post by: antimony on July 12, 2016, 10:08:15 PM
Im sorry to pick up on this thread after such a long time,  but i have been kind of busy and have started to pick up on this again,  and i didnt want to annoy anybody by starting a new thread about the same subject.  :)

I read something today about making these antennas, and how he used them.
I cant link to the diagram, but it had two Litz wire wound chokes, and a step down transformer that stepped down the V from 10kV to 12 or 24V maybe. 

What do you think about it?  He wrote that it was very efficiant and that he got 50W continue
Title: Re: Electret antenna out of an coaxial cable?
Post by: Paul-R on July 13, 2016, 06:39:48 PM
I am wondering if two ideas have been muddled together.

About five (or maybe more) years ago, Stefan put out a method to make an electret out of coax aerial cable. He coiled up the cable, connected a massive DC voltage between the central signal  and the screen and put it into a conventional oven, still connected. The oven baked the coil for a long time, with the voltage still on. The plastic between the central and the screen melted enough for the molecules to line up under the voltage.

I don't remember the voltage. Probably around the six figure mark and the time in the oven, I don't recall either. Days rather than hours.

Hey Presto! an electret.
Title: Re: Electret antenna out of an coaxial cable?
Post by: antimony on October 23, 2016, 09:23:20 PM
I am wondering if two ideas have been muddled together.

About five (or maybe more) years ago, Stefan put out a method to make an electret out of coax aerial cable. He coiled up the cable, connected a massive DC voltage between the central signal  and the screen and put it into a conventional oven, still connected. The oven baked the coil for a long time, with the voltage still on. The plastic between the central and the screen melted enough for the molecules to line up under the voltage.

I don't remember the voltage. Probably around the six figure mark and the time in the oven, I don't recall either. Days rather than hours.

Hey Presto! an electret.

I tried to bake in the oven for about 20-30 minutes at 100 degrees C, with about 30 dc volts connected.
I know that it should have been a lot more dc volts but it was the most I could give it.
Afterwards I waited about three days, and then tried it. I was not able to use it as an antenna, but then I tried to measure the cable I connected the shield with one probe, and held the other one in one hand and while touching the middle wire the dmm got a reading, not otherwise.
Btw, the other end of the cable was shorted.

I couldn't get a reading any other way. This was the only way to measure anything.

Do you know what is up with that?



Title: Re: Electret antenna out of an coaxial cable?
Post by: Paul-R on October 24, 2016, 07:21:17 PM

Do you know what is up with that?
.
What is up with that is that you did not follow the instructions of the beloved leader.
Title: Re: Electret antenna out of an coaxial cable?
Post by: Paul-R on October 26, 2016, 03:19:43 PM
antimony:

Do you know anyone who is a trained TV engineer with experience on old style CRT televisions?

Paul.
Title: Re: Electret antenna out of an coaxial cable?
Post by: antimony on November 08, 2016, 11:18:48 AM
.
What is up with that is that you did not follow the instructions of the beloved leader.

I know, but do you think my body acted as the antenna in some way, or why did my multimeter only get a reading when its red probe was connected to the shielding and the black probe to one of my hands, and the other hand touching the inner wire in the coax?

Im sorry if this is a stupid question. :)

antimony:

Do you know anyone who is a trained TV engineer with experience on old style CRT televisions?

Paul.

No, i don´t. What did you have in mind?
Title: Re: Electret antenna out of an coaxial cable?
Post by: Paul-R on November 08, 2016, 06:13:49 PM

No, i don´t. What did you have in mind?

What I suggest is potentially dangerous.


You could experiment by putting several pieces of your coax cable, two inches long approx, in the oven and heat it to a medium heat for half an hour or so. Note the temperature of the oven. Remove one piece and see if the white plastic insulation has gone sticky but still holding the central line in position. If it isn't sticky, raise the temperature and repeat until the inside plastic is sticky but still holding the central conductor in place. When this condition is achieved, note the oven temp.

You could arrange a DC high voltage supply from inside a scrapped but working old style CRT television set. Probably around 30,000volts and deadly if not used correctly.

Make a coil out of your coax cable. The voltage from the TV could be applied to the screen and the central conductor of the coil of coax cable, with the other end left ON OPEN CIRCUIT. The coil is put in the oven with the TV beside it and connected up. The oven is set to the temperature determined above, and the set up left on and in position for some time, possibly three days.

Then, switch off the oven, switch off the TV and let the coil cool very thoroughly (probably for 2 - 3 hours).

The coil may, or may not, be an electret.

With help from a qualified TV engineer, this is an achievable project

but

=== This procedure is potentially VERY DANGEROUS and can lead to DEATH ===

=== Anyone attempting this needs either qualified help or an undertaker ===