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Author Topic: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System  (Read 19174 times)

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2015, 07:31:22 PM »
You are making this up as you go along. 

If the system would work without 1) continually filling the top reservoir with water in an open environment  or 2) Using a pump and fan in a closed environment (that you continually say they did not do, but pasted a screen shot of anyway) then why didn't the inventors do this? 

Another false assertion by you!  Where did I say they never used a pump and fan in a closed environment in one of their experiments as found in their white paper? 

In reply #26, I said, "An electric fan isn't needed and was never used in the video for the rotary engine as you falsely assert!  In a separate experiment which you are referring to in the white paper, they completely enclosed the moisture mill inside a chamber of 2-mm-thick acrylic glass so the humidity couldn't escape into the outside environment.  They used an electric fan to evenly distribute a stream of humidity-controlled air that was pumped into the enclosed chamber".

Now, the experiment using a pump and fan in an enclosed chamber as found in their white paper is a separate experiment with a totally different purpose as the experiment we find in the demonstration video.  In the video, it clearly shows there is no 2-mm-thick acrylic glass chamber completely enclosing the moisture mill, and it also clearly shows there is no stream of humidity-controlled air being pumped into an enclosed chamber with a fan moving the air around.  Two different experiments with two completely different purposes.  You continue to misrepresent the facts with one false assertion after another!

Gravock


« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 10:44:20 PM by gravityblock »

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2015, 07:31:22 PM »

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2015, 08:00:24 PM »

Are you just smarter than the guys who invented it?

How is the environment kept dry that your vents are opening into?

How is the environment kept moist that the vents are opening from ?

Is the water wheel in the Humid environment or the Dry environment? 

How does the water wheel traverse between the two environments Dry and Humid (through the vents) ?

Is the water wheel going through the vents when they are closed ? 

Are you just smarter than the guys who invented it?  Sahin said they took many shortcuts in the proof-of-concept version as found in the demonstration video and that they know it actually can be made 100 times more powerful by solving a number of problems.”   I'm only picking up where Sahin left off and presenting ideas to make this more efficient, more powerful, and self-sustaining without taking all of the shortcuts for a proof-of-concept demonstration.

How is the environment kept dry that your vents are opening into?  The environment above the shutters of the oscillatory engine don't need to be kept dry.  However, the environment above the shutters can be kept dry through condensation via the WarkaWater Tower or other similar methods.

How is the environment kept moist that the vents are opening from?  The environment isn't kept moist that the vents are opening from.  This environment, which is below the shutters is kept dry by the spores absorbing the moisture from the surrounding air and releasing it through the shutters into the environment above it.

Is the water wheel in the Humid environment or the Dry environment?  Half of the moisture mill is in a humid environment and the other half is in a dryer environment.

How does the water wheel traverse between the two environments Dry and Humid (through the vents)?  This has already been explained and can be seen in the demonstration videos, which has already been posted.  As the spores absorb the humidity on one side of the wheel, it not only causes the spores to become heavier, it also increases the moment arm of the strips as they expand and straighten out, which increases the torque.  On the lighter and dryer side of the wheel, the moment arm of the strips will decrease as they contract and curl back up while losing their moisture content, which causes a further mass imbalance while increasing the torque once again.
 
Gravock

Offline allcanadian

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2015, 07:53:57 AM »
@Nink
Quote
I have been responding to questions asked.  My opening question was  "how do
you maintain two environments, one wet and one dry?"  The inventors manually
moved water to the top of devices to achieve this and the energy consumption to
move the water exceeds the energy created by the wheel. 

I think you may be confusing the issue and fundamentally the premise is that under the influence of high humidity in the air the test strip curls and when the humidity drops the test strip uncurls. The curl represents a force acting through a distance and this consitutes work due to a change in the relative humidity in the air surrounding the test strip.

Think of it this way, we have a test strip in our hand and when we move it over a dish of water it curls due to the humidity above the dish and when we move it away from the dish of water it uncurls, the curl is work (force x distance). To be absolutely clear they do not pump water to the top of the wheel and I have no idea where you got that from.

I'm not some random guy, I'm an Engineer and an expert in energy systems and you are mistaken. You should look more closely at this technology which I would group into a relatively new area called Biomimicry. That is where we copy energy systems found in nature outside the context of what we could concieve as man-made. Think of our muscles, we use our muscles and our brain to gather food which provides the energy for our muscles to perform work. To my knowledge there is no man-made machine in existence that can even come remotely close to doing what we do every day and we are in some sense the most advanced autonomous organic machines in existence... that we know of.

Now this may seem like nothing for those who do not understand energy or science and technology however this technology is the first step to some pretty amazing things. Here is the progression of technology -- tangible work from a change in humidity which is where were at now, next work from an artificial organic muscle where we pump fluids to cause a reversible chemical reaction not unlike our own muscles. Thus we may concieve that in the future we could create an organic machine not unlike a man or a horse with an artificial computerized brain. Think about it, we know we exist and we can do work and maintain ourselves with energy from organic material thus we already have proof that it can be done, we are that proof. In the future we will build self sustaining autonomous organic machines based on the same technology we are based on. It is the natural progression of the technology being debated here and we are only seeing the start of something very big.
Regards
AC

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2015, 07:53:57 AM »
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Offline Nink

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2015, 01:12:41 AM »
@Nink

Think of it this way, we have a test strip in our hand and when we move it over a dish of water it curls due to the humidity above the dish and when we move it away from the dish of water it uncurls, the curl is work (force x distance). To be absolutely clear they do not pump water to the top of the wheel and I have no idea where you got that from.

I appreciate the use case where the strip is situated above a body of water and evaporation due to heat causes the spores on the strip to absorb water. 
The spores expand the strip expands opening the vents to allow the evaporated water to escape.  I have no issue with this use case and fully appreciate the way this works, although they only manage to generate an average of 1.8 μW using this method and I can generate more power with a $5 drinking bird and it uses a lot less water. 

Where I do have an issue is the rotary wheel.  In the video you clearly see them place water in the top of the unit. This is done manually but it still required work to move the water to the top of wheel.  I do not see any other method possible to only have one half of the wheel in a humid environment and the other half in a dry environment.   

You could suggest put half the wheel over a body of water so only the spores on the right hand side become moist.  unfortunately evaporation does not cause water vapor to move directly in an upwards vertical direction only.  The water molecules will expand upwards and outwards.  The result is we will have water molecules spreading out moving across the entire wheel and they will concentrate on the bottom of the wheel as the water will be first absorbed by the spores at the bottom.  The inventors worked around this problem by moving the water molecules above and directly beside the spores on one side only by lining the sides of the waterwheel with paper.  The water is absorbed in the paper using the capillary effect. When the water is vaporized through heat it is immediately absorbed by the neighboring spores.

You could also suggest the capillary effect could be used by placing the water at the bottom of the wheel. The problem we have here is the density of the water would be greater at the bottom of the paper and lighter at the top of the wheel as more water vapor would be released at the bottom of the wheel and absorbed by the spores at the bottom of the wheel.  This would not work. We need the reverse with more water vapor released at the top of the wheel. 

If you can explain to me how the water wheel could work and I like diagrams I would be more than happy to learn.  The challenge with your statement is you say when "we move it over a dish of water it curls" and this requires work to move it over the dish of water.   You also say "when we move it away from the dish of water it uncurls" this also requires work.  Where does the energy to move it come from?

The problem we have is every one is assuming there is an option E,  A fictitious environment where half the environment is naturally humid and the other half is dry. This of course is impossible as the level of humidity will simply equalize as the space between Environment A and Environment B needs to be open to allow the wheel to turn. 

Offline allcanadian

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2015, 10:00:00 AM »
@Nink
Quote
If you can explain to me how the water wheel could work and I like diagrams I
would be more than happy to learn.  The challenge with your statement is you say
when "we move it over a dish of water it curls" and this requires work to move
it over the dish of water. You also say "when we move it away from the dish of
water it uncurls" this also requires work.  Where does the energy to move it
come from?

You make some good points and in may cases a primary effect may appear to have great potential however many smaller secondary problems many overwhelm the primary effect to the point it seems unworkable. In my simple example we could use a test strip on a pendulum and when the test strips curl this changes the balance point of the mass of the pendulum not unlike pumping a swing. There are many ways to produce a simple feedback control and they are so obvious and easy they are hardly worth mentioning. The issue is how efficient the feedback control is and how much energy is required relative to the total energy.

 

Quote
The problem we have is every one is assuming there is an option E,  A fictitious
environment where half the environment is naturally humid and the other half is
dry. This of course is impossible as the level of humidity will simply equalize
as the space between Environment A and Environment B needs to be open to allow
the wheel to turn. 
Open-closed are relative, nothing is open because something is always retained and nothing is closed because nothing is perfectly insulated from everything else. Thus we are simply speaking of the degree of interaction is every case. I have no issue with this technology considering the most popular machine we use, the automobile, was calculated to have an average total efficiency of 16%. I mean if this is supposedly the best we can do then I'm really not sure how we could do any worse and quite frankly it's embarrassing. One cannot claim to be intelligent and in the next instant think 16% is the best we can do or is even acceptable unless their stupid but that's another story all together.

In the case of the wheel over a body of water I would propose what seems obvious. The wheel as shown has strips extending from the wheel which is the same basic design as a centrifugal fan. So we build a modified volute case with a water pad in the bottom and rotation causes air flow over the water in the bottom increasing the humidity over part of the wheel causing rotation.  I mean I could give you hundreds of variations of ways to do this and this part of the engineering is preschool in my opinion. The real issue is energy density and how to compact as many strips into the smallest volume while operating at the highest efficiency. While many are still trying to understand the basic models shown I'm researching the application of high density 3D geometries which still retain high airflows thus rapid changes in relative humidity. Not unlike a self-pumping flexible micro-honeycomb structure in which contraction/expansion pumps air and also switches air flows between dry and humid. Which is strange because I have very little if no interest in this technology other than a creative exercise in engineering that might apply to other technologies.

I understand most people couldn't develop a technology if their life depended on it so I will throw you guys a bone. Look at the wheel... what do you see... wheel causes air flow over water which raises humidity, which turns wheel. Evaporating water cools air, kind of like a self-driving evaporative air conditioner on a planet getting hotter every day. Connect the dots, what do you think a self-sustaining air conditioner would be worth?.
 
Regards
AC

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2015, 10:00:00 AM »
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Offline Nink

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2015, 02:33:02 PM »
In my simple example we could use a test strip on a pendulum and when the test strips curl this changes the balance point of the mass of the pendulum not unlike pumping a swing.
Hi AC,

I appreciate your explanation although  I am not sure how this will actually work. 
1) The rate of expansion is a lot slower than in the video, if you read the white paper you will see it has been sped up so there is no significant recoil effect.  At best I believe you will only change the center of balance of the pendulum and not invoke a swinging momentum.  Once expanded the spores will still be directly above the source of humidity so they would not contract or curl.
2) The expanded spores have a greater surface area then the contracted spores. As a result they will be exposed to a larger amount of water vapor so I do not  believe they would contract until the source of humidity is removed.
3) The mass of the spores is directly proportional to the rate of expansion. The longer the strips the larger the spores so the greater the mass that has to be moved in order for the pendulum to swing.

You have also proposed several other ideas and concepts that I believe require an additional level of detail to sufficiently understand them. It would be beneficial if you choose one of your ideas, provide additional detail and draw a diagram to explain how you believe it will work.

Please don't interpret my comments as negative. There is a lot of value in solving this problem and perhaps you have some insight on how to solve it.  If we could solve the unbalanced wheel problem through humidity and apply it to a wheel the size of say London Eye you could generate a significant amount of power.   Like you I have some ideas on how to leverage these spores to generate power but I need to give them further consideration to fully understand how they could work. I usually start with a 2D drawing => 3D model => Physics Simulation and finally prototype.

Offline allcanadian

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2015, 04:53:31 PM »
@Nink
Quote
Please don't interpret my comments as negative. There is a lot of value in solving this problem and perhaps you have some insight on how to solve it.


I don't think your comments are any more critical than mine and would agree there are many problems which need to be resolved. The first is that the rate of change, response time and magnitude of work (FxD) are low implying low energy density. However if we attached the start of one strip to the end of the other in a series configuration not unlike a spring... one turn connected to the other. Then we have a greater force over a greater distance and a differential response time over the length. Now it seems obvious that if the singular turns of many "springs" were interconnected then we end up with a three dimensional form not unlike a sponge or honeycomb.




The issue many have is being overly preoccupied with the motion of a single strip however this is not how nature works. Nature always uses multiple working elements acting in unison but still remaining independent in themselves. A trait we as humans have trouble with and this translates to our perception thus how we build technology. Nanotechnology or engineered materials is changing our perceptions and now "small is big". Thus while big test strips are a losing proposition billions of small ones compacted into a functional 3D form is obviously a winner. A single transistor is not a computer or intelligent however billions of them etched onto a chip are intelligent. One thing multiplied may become something much more than the sum of it's parts... this is how nature works and it is also how we work. We cannot judge a technology based on the singular any more than we can judge a person based on a few cells found in their liver. We are more than the sum of our parts and so if we want to move forward and progress our technology must also move in this direction.




Regards
AC

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2015, 04:53:31 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #52 on: December 12, 2015, 05:50:48 PM »
I appreciate your explanation although  I am not sure how this will actually work. 

1) The rate of expansion is a lot slower than in the video, if you read the white paper you will see it has been sped up so there is no significant recoil effect.  At best I believe you will only change the center of balance of the pendulum and not invoke a swinging momentum.  Once expanded the spores will still be directly above the source of humidity so they would not contract or curl.

Number 1 above is more misdirection by you.  The rate of expansion/contraction for the moisture mill and the oscillatory engine with LED experiments are in real time as shown by the video itself (snapshots of the video below for quick reference).  The lift test and the oscillatory engine w/o LED were shown at 2x.  You can't take the information for 1 experiment in the white paper and apply it too all of the experiments in the video.  What is wrong with you?  You continue to be deceitful and to misrepresent the facts at every turn!  Either way, we can clearly see a significant recoil in the moisture mill and the oscillatory engine LED experiments in real time.  The rotational speed of the moisture mill in the video, which was shown in real time is proof of a significant recoil effect.  Also, when the moisture mill was placed under a load while it was operating as a car, the motion on a few occasions slowed to a stop.  However, the spores has more time to absorb the moisture on the humid side of the wheel at a slower RPM, and has more time to release their moisture content on the lighter side of the wheel, which causes a further increase in the mass imbalance of the wheel to increase the torque allowing the moisture mill and the car to once again rotate and move, which shows a significant recoil effect.

Increasing the diameter of the moisture mill gives the spores more time to absorb humidity and more time to release it's moisture content.  For example, let's say a 6ft. diameter wheel rotating at 50 RPM's gives the spores enough time to become fully saturated with moisture and gives the spores enough time to fully release their moisture content.  This allows the spores to fully expand and to fully contract in order to have the highest mass imbalance and maximum recoil effect.  Now, with this in mind, we can add more spore strips by increasing the width of the moisture mill.   Each spore strip has an additional weight attached it, which causes a greater mass imbalance of the wheel.  We'll increase the width of the moisture mill so it will still rotate at 50 RPM's under maximum load.  This gives us the greatest mass imbalance of the wheel and the highest amount of torque available to the system when it's operating under maximum load without decreasing below 50 RPM's.   We can then attach the moisture mill to a generator with a 1:100 gear ratio, and the generator will rotate at 5,000 RPM's under maximum load while having maximum torque available to it.

Gravock
« Last Edit: December 13, 2015, 02:22:49 AM by gravityblock »

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2015, 07:05:52 PM »
Increasing the diameter of the moisture mill gives the spores more time to absorb humidity and more time to release it's moisture content.  For example, let's say a 6ft. diameter wheel rotating at 50 RPM's gives the spores enough time to become fully saturated with moisture and gives the spores enough time to fully release their moisture content.  This allows the spores to fully expand and to fully contract in order to have the highest mass imbalance and maximum recoil effect.  Now, with this in mind, we can add more spore strips by increasing the width of the moisture mill.   We'll increase the width of the moisture mill so it will still rotate at 50 RPM's under maximum load.  This gives us the greatest mass imbalance of the wheel and the highest amount of torque available to the system when it's operating under maximum load without decreasing below 50 RPM's.   We can then attach the moisture mill to a generator with a 1:100 gear ratio, and the generator will rotate at 5,000 RPM's under maximum load while having maximum torque available to it.

Gravock

We could have one set of heavy weights being lifted by the spores expanding and contracting while another set of heavy weights are slowing falling as they turn a generator.  Once again, determine what our maximum load will be, then design the system accordingly.  This will give us the height of the lift/drop, how much weight will be needed, the gear ratios, and how many layers of spores (muscles) will be needed in order to operate under maximum load while having maximum torque available to it.  A few harmonic drives would be the best to obtain the high gear ratios.

Reference (video)

Gravock

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2015, 07:05:52 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #54 on: December 13, 2015, 02:04:09 AM »
This simple humidity-driven generator is built out of Legos™, a miniature fan, a magnet, and a spore-coated cantilever. As the cantilever flips back and forth in response to moisture, it drives a rotating magnet that produces electricity.  A device built on similar principles could function as a humidity-driven electrical generator. Credit: Xi Chen/Columbia University.

The spores expanding and contracting in a properly devised contraption can be used to get past the sticky point, lift a weight, or be used to trigger a huge imbalance in all kinds of gravity wheels, etc.  The possibilities are endless!.

Gravock

Offline Nink

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #55 on: December 13, 2015, 06:37:09 PM »
Hi GravityBlock

In the picture you posted of the lego engine it mentions a "Miniature Electric fan" The purpose of the fan is to blow dry air from a Dry environment to the Humid environment when the spores are fully expanded.  Could you please show me where the electric fan is in the picture.  I do not see it on the lego construction. There are only 2 wires coming off the magnetic rocker generator and they appear to be going to some type of power monitoring device .  My only conclusion is the electric fan is off screen to right of the device and the fan cuts in and out to contract the spores.

What powers the electric Fan?

The Rotary Car is at 2X Speed.  http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/150616/ncomms8346/extref/ncomms8346-s6.mov

"5) Supplementary Movie 5 (9,659 KB)
 As the water in the wet paper evaporates, it drives the 0.1 kg weighing car forward. The playback speed is 2X of the real time."


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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #55 on: December 13, 2015, 06:37:09 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #56 on: December 13, 2015, 09:11:48 PM »
Hi GravityBlock

In the picture you posted of the lego engine it mentions a "Miniature Electric fan" The purpose of the fan is to blow dry air from a Dry environment to the Humid environment when the spores are fully expanded.  Could you please show me where the electric fan is in the picture.  I do not see it on the lego construction. There are only 2 wires coming off the magnetic rocker generator and they appear to be going to some type of power monitoring device .  My only conclusion is the electric fan is off screen to right of the device and the fan cuts in and out to contract the spores.

What powers the electric Fan?

The Rotary Car is at 2X Speed.  http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/150616/ncomms8346/extref/ncomms8346-s6.mov

"5) Supplementary Movie 5 (9,659 KB)
 As the water in the wet paper evaporates, it drives the 0.1 kg weighing car forward. The playback speed is 2X of the real time."

The 2 wires coming off the magnetic rocker generator appears to be going to the miniature electric fan, that is just off the screen to the left (see image below with red text and a red arrow pointing to where I think the fan is).  IMO, the magnetic rocker generator is powering the miniature electric fan. 

Yes, the rotary car is at 2x speed.  However, you're claim that there is no significant recoil effect based on the rate of expansion being a lot slower in the video doesn't hold, because not all of the experiments in the video were sped up as you falsely implied and asserted.  I would say there is a significant recoil effect based on the spore strips visibly expanding and contracting just by inhaling and exhaling, as described by Sahin.  Also, I would say there is a significant recoil effect if one pound of spores with a little humidity has the capabilities to lift a car 1 meter off the ground.

At the top of your post, you claim there is no significant recoil effect, then at the bottom of the same post in reply #50, you said, "Like you I have some ideas on how to leverage these spores to generate power but I need to give them further consideration to fully understand how they could work".  Now, my question to you based on all of your previous negative comments, false assertions, etc is, How are you going to leverage these spores to generate power and why would you try to leverage these spores, when according to you there is no significant recoil effect, an electrical fan is required, a pump must be used to get the water back to the top, a pump is used to inject humidity-controlled air into an enclosed chamber, etc?

You have ideas on how to leverage these spores, which you haven't shared, and you have done nothing but misrepresent the facts in order to discourage others from giving any further consideration into this subject.  This leads me to believe you have a hidden agenda for being on this forum, and that would be to develop your own proprietary system for your own financial benefit and gain.

Gravock

Offline Nink

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #57 on: December 13, 2015, 11:09:29 PM »
I am not sure you understand what the term recoil means. Please research newtons laws of motion and get back to me.

How much power do you actually think that magnetic rocker is generating? It looks like an average of  1.47 μW but I can't be sure I can't see the scale used.  Do you know how to make any type of fan that could operate at < an average of  1.47 μW.

What is the distance the rocker is traveling 1cm, 2cm, 5cm ?
What is the expansion and contraction rate of the spore strip (2s, 1s, 500ms) ?

Even if you manually moved that rocker back and forth at 500ms intervals for a distance of  + and - 5cm you still could not generate enough energy to turn a fan.

Do you honestly believe that rocking that magnet back and forth using the spores is generating sufficient energy to power an electric fan that would allow this device to run autonomously without any external influence.   If this was in fact the case why didn't the article say so? This would be very impressive and probably get some type of science award. I believe he would have clearly stated this SELF POWERED HUMIDITY ENGINE!!! instead of trying to obfuscate the details around the spores powering the fan or not..

Why don't you email the inventor and ask or are you just happy reaching your own conclusions that this is generating free energy without any supporting evidence?


Offline gravityblock

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #58 on: December 14, 2015, 07:45:52 PM »
I am not sure you understand what the term recoil means. Please research newtons laws of motion and get back to me.

How much power do you actually think that magnetic rocker is generating? It looks like an average of  1.47 μW but I can't be sure I can't see the scale used.  Do you know how to make any type of fan that could operate at < an average of  1.47 μW.

What is the distance the rocker is traveling 1cm, 2cm, 5cm ?
What is the expansion and contraction rate of the spore strip (2s, 1s, 500ms) ?

Even if you manually moved that rocker back and forth at 500ms intervals for a distance of  + and - 5cm you still could not generate enough energy to turn a fan.

Do you honestly believe that rocking that magnet back and forth using the spores is generating sufficient energy to power an electric fan that would allow this device to run autonomously without any external influence.   If this was in fact the case why didn't the article say so? This would be very impressive and probably get some type of science award. I believe he would have clearly stated this SELF POWERED HUMIDITY ENGINE!!! instead of trying to obfuscate the details around the spores powering the fan or not..

Why don't you email the inventor and ask or are you just happy reaching your own conclusions that this is generating free energy without any supporting evidence?

I could care less if a fan was used or not to move humidity-controlled air around.  Some experiments used a fan (mostly to create an environment where the different parameters, such as relative humidity, temperature, etc could be rapidly switched and controlled during their experiments for data purposes), and other experiments were designed to work without a fan, etc.  The magnetic rocker generator apparatus was placed on a ceramic-top heater.  Does this mean a heater is required for the spores to expand and contract?  Absolutely not!  Does this mean a ceramic-top heater was used in all of their experiments?  Of course not!  Does this mean an electrical fan is required for the spores to expand and contract?  Absolutely not!  Does this mean a fan was used in all of their experiments?  Of course not!  You have no ability to differentiate between what is necessary and what is not.

Gravock

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #59 on: January 03, 2016, 05:35:57 PM »
The spore technology can be applied to many hybrid-tech devices or applications.
what I personally would do with this has not yet been mentioned anywhere and im gonna keep it.

But the devices and uses discussed here, this system is technically

a Heat engine

Whether the heat comes from Solar, Geothermal, or an artificial source.
The evaporation process takes heat from one side and moves it to the other.
performing work

By law it can only be perfected to 50% efficiency at converting all the heat into usable energy.
Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnot_cycle

but if the source of heat is free (ambient/environmental), it doesn't matter. it's "free".




 

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