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Author Topic: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System  (Read 19172 times)

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2015, 08:19:17 AM »
For those who have metal roofs or tile roofs with geothermal water-cooling, enough water can be collected to take a bath, in most cases. Solar-powered air-moisture harvesting and wind-powered air-moisture harvesting can complement the other dew harvesting techniques.

Reference:  Dew Harvesting

Gravock

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2015, 08:19:17 AM »

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2015, 08:58:05 AM »
The Solar Wind Downdraft Tower delivers water by a series of pumps to the Tower’s injection system at the top where a fine mist is cast across the entire opening.  Contrary to Nink's false assertions, the energy to get the water back to the top of the tower isn't 10 x actual energy created in all circumstances.  If this was the case, then they wouldn't be building a half-mile tall Downdraft Tower in Arizona.  The moisture mill only needs a little humidity and doesn't even require a fine mist to be sprayed.  Both of these systems generate such a tremendous and remarkable force with just a relatively small amount of moisture that they are capable of being self-sustaining.

Reference:  Hybrid Solar Wind Technology

Gravock

Offline SoManyWires

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2015, 09:41:55 AM »
thanx for the walk through. still sortve trying to better understand it. i fell out of the womb and hit the floor. and then that broke out into a floor hockey game, so wish me luck.



will look more into this to see where it goes. bill gates is interested in it so he realizes its a good idea.
will follow the progress of the last one there being public traded thats sitting at 2 cents and was for a couple of years much higher.
wonder what they did then and what caused them to tank.
they have something going on in mexico right now. gonna read more about it.


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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2015, 09:41:55 AM »
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Offline SoManyWires

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2015, 10:00:52 AM »
I disagree with you on this.  The evaporated water from the moisture mill and the moisture in the surrounding air can be recycled by collecting condensation with a WarkaWater Tower that is above the moisture mill in order to refill the water reservoir.  In addition to this, rain water can be collected.  This will run 24/7 without any issues, even in the desert, and can be made self-sustaining if done properly.

Gravock

The WarkaWater Tower, which is easy and cheap to construct, uses no electricity and has the ability to produce up to 25 gallons of water in a day by capturing condensation and could be the answer to water scarcity in parts of the world that have little to no access to water. The design was influenced by his witnessing of the extreme conditions Ethiopian villagers have to undergo to get to water, and he hopes to install two towers there by 2015. We look at how the tower could address the issue of water scarcity, in this Lip News clip with Lissette Padilla and Mark Sovel.

bill gates seems to be backing it. cheap to build they say.
no drilling needed, or ground water it sounds like.

no electric power needed for that design.

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2015, 10:10:31 AM »
thanx for the walk through. still sortve trying to better understand it. i fell out of the womb and hit the floor. and then that broke out into a floor hockey game, so wish me luck.

will look more into this, at least keep up on the last idea there with the public traded one thats sitting at 2 cents and was for a couple of years much higher.
wonder what they did then and what caused them to tank.
they have something going on in mexico right now. gonna read more about it.

The City of San Luis, AZ approved the company’s construction, which will begin in 2018.  I'm sure it wasn't easy to get the continent's tallest proposed structure approved.  They also have proprietary software that determines the optimal size of the tower's dimensions based on local weather data as well as it's financial performance.

The moisture mill could create a more level playing field by taking the control and power away from the corporations and utility companies, so the individual property owner can be energy independent and off-grid.

Gravock

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2015, 10:10:31 AM »
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Offline SoManyWires

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2015, 11:15:16 PM »
The City of San Luis, AZ approved the company’s construction, which will begin in 2018.  I'm sure it wasn't easy to get the continent's tallest proposed structure approved.  They also have proprietary software that determines the optimal size of the tower's dimensions based on local weather data as well as it's financial performance.

The moisture mill could create a more level playing field by taking the control and power away from the corporations and utility companies, so the individual property owner can be energy independent and off-grid.

Gravock

holy non religious flying cow, crow, 600 acres across!

i wonder how that works during times when the sun might have removed water vapor.
birds and insects, messiahs on carpets flying across, would they be drawn upwards and becoming a little dehydrated? ok maybe not.

just surprised it is 600 acres span rather than a series of smaller ones.

Offline Paul-R

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2015, 03:33:51 PM »
As I originally stated the energy to get the water to the top of the container is 10 x actual energy created.
Please show your working.


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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2015, 03:33:51 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2015, 08:12:50 PM »
Please show your working.

Before Nink can show his work, he needs to first correctly understand the basic principals in how the device operates.  For example, the Downdraft Energy Tower requires about 50% of the turbine's output to pump the water, and this is contrary to the claims made by Nink (Reference:  Energy Tower).  As previously shown, the moisture mill can be self-sustaining while doing useful work, and can do so without the requirement to extract it's output to pump the water.  This concept, based on evaporation, is a power source that nature has freely given to us and it's available everywhere 24/7.

Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2015, 09:52:28 PM »
thanx for the walk through. still sortve trying to better understand it.

Sahin used wet paper towels to provide the spores with a continuous source of humidity via capillary action (see image below).  Sham-wows or other similar absorbent materials may be a better choice. 

The spores are deposited on the strip with gaps in between them.  This creates a "dashed-line" of spores.  On the other side of the strip, the dashed-line of spores are offset to overlap with the gaps on the other side.  This creates a "live hinge" for the strips to curl and straighten as the spores expand and contract.  Hopefully this answers a few questions that weren't addressed in the videos and other posted reference materials.

Gravock

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2015, 09:52:28 PM »
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Offline SoManyWires

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2015, 10:26:17 PM »
Sahin used wet paper towels to provide the spores with a continuous source of humidity via capillary action (see image below).  Sham-wows or other similar absorbent materials may be a better choice. 

The spores are deposited on the strip with gaps in between them.  This creates a "dashed-line" of spores.  On the other side of the strip, the dashed-line of spores are offset to overlap with the gaps on the other side.  This creates a "live hinge" for the strips to curl and straighten as the spores expand and contract.  Hopefully this answers a few questions that weren't addressed in the videos and other posted reference materials.

Gravock

ya i realized how that version using the weight of water vapor can cause a imbalance on a wheel, just was not sure about useful it was during periods of time when the sun was doing its own work drying things up during daylight hours, in places such as a sand filled desert.

i missed the point of the reservoir up till now. i get it now. thanx.

amazing how much force against gravity spores can create. that is alot of lifting power and that component of the machine is also renewable.
probably cheap to grow at that.

how to grow a organic self powered robotic lifeform, perhaps at some point.

eventually though it too will evolve and will want freedom from slavery. and a form of zombie apocalypse might occur in the next 2000 years as a result if not careful.

Offline Nink

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2015, 11:04:04 PM »
Please show your working.


Assume efficiency of pump moving water to the top of the wheel is 70% (most pumps are 60% (but lets assume they have a really efficient pump) so we just lost 30% of the energy moving the water up to the top. Now assume the water wheel has an efficiency of 80% (there is no data to say it is more or less efficient so I will say it is 80% unless corrected) and this is super efficient unlike an overshot wheel at ~60% or undershot wheel ~50% (again these guys are smart)

As you see in the video is the water goes to the top of the device into a reservoir. This then flows down into the paper sheets on the side. of the wheel making them moist.  Now what we don't see in the video is there was also a fan that that is used to mist the water and keep it to only the enclosed side of the wheel.   You have to read the white paper to get that info but here is is for your benefit

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/150616/ncomms8346/full/ncomms8346.html

Characterization of the rotary engine
"A small electric fan was placed in the chamber to control airflow surrounding the rotary engine. "

The problem they solved here with the fan is they only want to have one half of the environment to be humid and the other half can't be humid (keep the water vapor on the left hand side and not on the right).  So I am going to make an assumption they said it was a sunon fan they were using in another section of the paper and the lowest watt fan I could find from Sunon is 1/2 a Watt (so lets assume this is it)

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Blowers-Fans/DC-Fans/10-CFM-12-VDC-FAN-1-2-WATT-16-1444.axd

So if it takes 1000mW to move the water to the top its 1000mW *.7 (loss from pumping)  *.8 (loss from Water whee) - 500mW (loss from Fan) = 60mW of power generated for 1000mW of power. Now I really don't know how much water they moved to the top etc these are all assumptions but I think I have been rather generous in the calculations. 

As for the warkerwater tower looks like a great way to extract water but unless someone can tell me how it can be used to create two environments 1 humid and  1 not humid and allow a wheel to move between these two environments without using any power I will stay with my statement this needs 10* the power. 


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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2015, 11:04:04 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2015, 02:33:56 AM »

Assume efficiency of pump moving water to the top of the wheel is 70% (most pumps are 60% (but lets assume they have a really efficient pump) so we just lost 30% of the energy moving the water up to the top. Now assume the water wheel has an efficiency of 80% (there is no data to say it is more or less efficient so I will say it is 80% unless corrected) and this is super efficient unlike an overshot wheel at ~60% or undershot wheel ~50% (again these guys are smart)

As you see in the video is the water goes to the top of the device into a reservoir. This then flows down into the paper sheets on the side. of the wheel making them moist.  Now what we don't see in the video is there was also a fan that that is used to mist the water and keep it to only the enclosed side of the wheel.   You have to read the white paper to get that info but here is is for your benefit

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/150616/ncomms8346/full/ncomms8346.html

Characterization of the rotary engine
"A small electric fan was placed in the chamber to control airflow surrounding the rotary engine. "

The problem they solved here with the fan is they only want to have one half of the environment to be humid and the other half can't be humid (keep the water vapor on the left hand side and not on the right).  So I am going to make an assumption they said it was a sunon fan they were using in another section of the paper and the lowest watt fan I could find from Sunon is 1/2 a Watt (so lets assume this is it)

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Blowers-Fans/DC-Fans/10-CFM-12-VDC-FAN-1-2-WATT-16-1444.axd

So if it takes 1000mW to move the water to the top its 1000mW *.7 (loss from pumping)  *.8 (loss from Water whee) - 500mW (loss from Fan) = 60mW of power generated for 1000mW of power. Now I really don't know how much water they moved to the top etc these are all assumptions but I think I have been rather generous in the calculations. 

As for the warkerwater tower looks like a great way to extract water but unless someone can tell me how it can be used to create two environments 1 humid and  1 not humid and allow a wheel to move between these two environments without using any power I will stay with my statement this needs 10* the power.

Thanks for the good laugh Nink!  You have once again demonstrated your inability to properly understand what you see and what you read.  However, I give you credit for participating in this discussion and for taking it upon yourself to read the white paper, even though you took what you read completely out-of-context.  An electric fan isn't needed and was never used in the video for the rotary engine as you falsely assert!  In a separate experiment which you are referring to in the white paper, they completely enclosed the moisture mill inside a chamber of 2-mm-thick acrylic glass so the humidity couldn't escape into the outside environment.  They used an electric fan to evenly distribute a stream of humidity-controlled air that was pumped into the enclosed chamber.  This experiment was to simulate a moisture mill operating in a very humid environment.  The WarkaWater Tower can recycle the evaporated water from the dryer side of the moisture mill via condensation, which moves the evaporated water back to the top of the water reservoir without any electricity, and at the same time help to maintain two environments (1 humid and 1 dry). 

Gravock

Offline Nink

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2015, 03:14:47 AM »
Seriously when you read the words "pumped in" or "fan" or some external electrical device used this should be a huge red flag.
What the inventors were exploring is the potential difference between two environments, a humid environment and a dry environment but just like all systems of energy generation that are based on potential difference (hot/cold wet/dry +/- etc) they will eventually equalize unless an external force is used to maintain that potential difference and the energy used to maintain the difference is always greater. 

No matter what system you design it will always equalize. This one I guarantee would equalize in seconds if they are not pumping moist air in or use a fan as a weather wall or .... 

The energy required to drive this device is 10* the energy produced.  If this is not the case how come they did not demonstrate it without needing electrically powered fans or pumps or.....   I hate to say it you and everyone else were duped by a youtube video with comments closed. 

I have no idea how you envision the Warkawater tower will maintain two separate environments one dry and one humid. Enlighten me. 




Offline gravityblock

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2015, 03:37:26 AM »
Seriously when you read the words "pumped in" or "fan" or some external electrical device used this should be a huge red flag.
What the inventors were exploring is the potential difference between two environments, a humid environment and a dry environment but just like all systems of energy generation that are based on potential difference (hot/cold wet/dry +/- etc) they will eventually equalize unless an external force is used to maintain that potential difference and the energy used to maintain the difference is always greater. 

No matter what system you design it will always equalize. This one I guarantee would equalize in seconds if they are not pumping moist air in or use a fan as a weather wall or .... 

The energy required to drive this device is 10* the energy produced.  If this is not the case how come they did not demonstrate it without needing electrically powered fans or pumps or.....   I hate to say it you and everyone else were duped by a youtube video with comments closed. 

I have no idea how you envision the Warkawater tower will maintain two separate environments one dry and one humid. Enlighten me.

I agree the potential difference in a closed system will eventually equalize over time.  However, this is an open system, and the external energy responsible for the evaporation cycle will always be greater in order to maintain this potential difference.

Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Evaporation Driven Self-Sustaining System
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2015, 04:00:49 AM »
Seriously when you read the words "pumped in" or "fan" or some external electrical device used this should be a huge red flag.

The above needs special attention, because it is intentionally deceitful and misleading.  We're not trying to create a very humid environment for both sides of the moisture mill that is completely enclosed in a way where the humidity can't escape, thus the pump and fan which you speak of is totally meaningless and actually defeats the devices's true and intended purposes.  The WarkaWater tower can maintain low humidity levels on the dryer side of the moisture mill via evaporation and condensation, even in a very humid external environment.

Gravock

 

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