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Author Topic: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?  (Read 125714 times)

Offline MileHigh

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #150 on: December 08, 2015, 06:41:44 PM »
Jbignes5:

You are just going to have to come to terms with the fact that I am speaking truthfully and honestly about this situation.   With respect to your example, it's you that is the tethered elephant.  You can lie to the elephant and get away with it because the elephant has been conditioned to accept whatever BS that is being fed to it.  The only difference is that it's self-conditioning in your case.  You want to believe and like a kid at a Star Wars movie you suspend your disbelief and for two hours you are Luke Skywalker.

The difference between you and the kid is that after the movie is over the kid is back to normal and experiencing real life.  In your case, you are permanently in a state of suspension of disbelief, just like the poor circus elephant that can be held in place by a small chain and has been conditioned to jump through hoops.

The gross error being made by RMS would be readily apparent to an astute 12-year-old kid at a grade seven science fair that did a battery project.  Yet you, as a grown adult, hide behind your wall of suspension of disbelief.  You are just like the tethered elephant waiting to be directed where to go.

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It is funny how you made this thread MH just to stir up controversy and spread fallacies that you usually spread.

I never lie, period.  You just can't cope with the truth.  It's disappointing that apparently I was the only one that could spot the problem, although certainly there are several others that would spot it right away.  I wasn't stirring up controversy.  The implicit message to the experimenters was to hone your skills so you are not duped the next time a similar situation comes up.

MileHigh

Offline jbignes5

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #151 on: December 08, 2015, 06:52:28 PM »
 You are not speaking the truth. You are speaking your truth as I have shown your statement is not correct about batteries and ultra caps density, it is a fallacy and you are spreading it. no amount of nana nana booboo from you will turn this around. Albeit that you know zero about them there is credible evidence you have an agenda here and I believe you are stating what you know, which is far too little in this field. You are trying to stir controversial fallacies about this even when presented with proof you are wrong as I posted above in my second post after the first.

 The article was from 2006 and it isn't even cost effective to do those kinds of caps but Mr. Smith might have found a way to safely and cost effectively produce non lethal battery like caps that can be made by anyone who knows how to make em.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #152 on: December 08, 2015, 06:53:28 PM »

 Let me give you some context to this new kind of capacitor:


 http://web.mit.edu/erc/spotlights/ultracapacitor.html


 In their version they are using carbon nanotubes and the density can be equal to a battery without the downside that a battery has chemically.

 Has MR. Smith found a better way to make it? Hmmm.... Time will tell.

 I am afraid I kinda led Mr. Smith to this point with my suggestions about crystal batteries. But the way he is being treated was not my intention. How dare you call his intentions into some kind of plot to deceive when your own intentions are to shoot down everything that comes along and deceive others with your fallacies about capacitors not being equal to a batteries density of energy capacity. Is MIT wrong then? And why did you not know about the ultra caps and their discovery? Or did you know and intentionally mislead people by not mentioning that this technology is in fact valid?

That's all great and I can guarantee you that Professor Joel E. Schindall of the MIT Energy Initiative will not fudge his numbers when he makes measurements on his ulracapacitors that are enhanced with carbon nanotubes.  If he did make that ridiculous mistake he would get his ass booted out of MIT.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #153 on: December 08, 2015, 06:56:40 PM »
You are not speaking the truth. You are speaking your truth as I have shown your statement is not correct about batteries and ultra caps density, it is a fallacy and you are spreading it.

 You are trying to stir controversial fallacies about this even when presented with proof you are wrong as I posted above in my second post after the first.

Go ahead and show where I am not speaking the truth.

Show me the proof that I am wrong.

Offline jbignes5

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #154 on: December 08, 2015, 07:10:08 PM »
Go ahead and show where I am not speaking the truth.

Show me the proof that I am wrong.


 I did show the proof by showing you that article that states that cap has the same density as a battery. Why does Mr. Smith have to do that when it is already known. Don't you think after 9 years it would have advanced beyond that density? Plus Mr. Smith is using another technique I believe that does in fact use a better storage medium but then again you ignore the proof and ask for me to prove it. You don't or won't step outside of your box and learn and thats why you have zero credibility with me and others. In fact your credibility went out the door a very long time ago. After a few thousand more posts and nothing has changed. You are the Elephant unwilling to step beyond your "Facts". Anyone can see this but you.

Offline memoryman

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #155 on: December 08, 2015, 07:13:37 PM »
MH, the video is sloppy work in several ways.

I just posted this "There are two huge flaws in the way that you interpret your calculations; one is in the weighing of the active materials, the other one is in the energy measurement method of your cap." as a comment to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-aOPQ9_MyM.


Offline MileHigh

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #156 on: December 08, 2015, 07:24:44 PM »

 I did show the proof by showing you that article that states that cap has the same density as a battery. Why does Mr. Smith have to do that when it is already known. Don't you think after 9 years it would have advanced beyond that density? Plus Mr. Smith is using another technique I believe that does in fact use a better storage medium but then again you ignore the proof and ask for me to prove it. You don't or won't step outside of your box and learn and thats why you have zero credibility with me and others. In fact your credibility went out the door a very long time ago. After a few thousand more posts and nothing has changed. You are the Elephant unwilling to step beyond your "Facts". Anyone can see this but you.

For RMS we are discussing batteries, not capacitors.  Sorry, but a ridiculous attempt at a double bait-and-switch is a fail.  It's laughable when you try in vain to ignore the failure on RMS's part to make an energy measurement on a forum dedicated to energy research and instead point to an unrelated link.  Your argument has zero credibility.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #157 on: December 08, 2015, 07:26:44 PM »
MH, the video is sloppy work in several ways.

I just posted this "There are two huge flaws in the way that you interpret your calculations; one is in the weighing of the active materials, the other one is in the energy measurement method of your cap." as a comment to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-aOPQ9_MyM.

Thanks Bill.  Your comment is short and to the point and much appreciated.  Will it remain public or not I wonder.

Offline jbignes5

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #158 on: December 08, 2015, 07:47:16 PM »
For RMS we are discussing batteries, not capacitors.  Sorry, but a ridiculous attempt at a double bait-and-switch is a fail.  It's laughable when you try in vain to ignore the failure on RMS's part to make an energy measurement on a forum dedicated to energy research and instead point to an unrelated link.  Your argument has zero credibility.


 It doesn't matter because he said it was a hybrid clearly in the video he also said it wasn't a strictly scientific explanation and it was an approximate with errors in both ways that should equal. It is a capacitor with battery like methods applied ie an electrolyte was used to make it more like the battery he was comparing to so again your attempt to mislead everyone is a known factor. Again you have misled yourself into think this is something it is not period.
 Now lets address his deleting of your posts. Since he clearly said it wasn't a scientific analysis of the unit per say he deleted the posts that were trying to make it so and steer people away from his ultimate goal of discovery and experimentation for others to get involved with. You on the other hand are trying to make this into something it is not.
 If you want to find out for yourself then simply do the experiment and then show it. show how it is wrong then prove it otherwise you are spouting your "Facts" and not what is going on.


 Again this is a hybrid capacitor/battery which he clearly states and one does relate to the other. All batteries have capacitance especially the lithium ion type. So arguing that point is again misleading people...

 "It's laughable when you try in vain to ignore the failure on RMS's part to make an energy measurement on a forum dedicated to energy research and instead point to an unrelated link.  Your argument has zero credibility."

 His measurement clearly shows massive differences using additional nano coatings instead of the brute force method li-ion uses. Also if you haven't seen Mr. Smith isn't here, now I wonder why? Because maybe with people like you, who like to put words in others mouths and the bad behavior you exhibit by demanding that he does what you should be doing to prove him wrong. He has a product you don't. I assure you I know what they two coatings are and if you took the time to research his other videos you would know what it was too. But then again you just don't believe anything outside of your box. We know MH how you work.

 My only attempt was to teach you that the construction differences between the battery and capacitor was moot knowing the nano material changes the medium to which energy is stored. Since you have written this off then leave him alone and stop trying to discredit his valid work.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #159 on: December 08, 2015, 07:58:53 PM »
I am not attempting to mislead anyone so stop saying that.  You claiming that I am attempting to mislead is in effect you attempting to mislead.

The RMS clip is a clip where he makes an energy measurement on his device.  His energy measurement is a gross exaggeration of the actual amount of energy in his device.  Therefore his claims of energy density by weight are a gross exaggeration.

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All batteries have capacitance especially the lithium ion type.

The quote above illustrates your very limited understanding of electronics.  I have had one or two technical conversations with you in the past where the same thing was apparent.

However, you should be able to understand how the energy measurement in the RMS clip is grossly exaggerated and it is all explained earlier in this thread.  That is the one and only issue being discussed.

There are many avenues of research going on for batteries and supercapacitors but that is not what this thread is about.

RMS deleting my posts instead of doing the right thing and redoing his clip is not confidence inspiring at all.  He didn't even have to redo the test itself, all of the data is right there on the two multimeters.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #160 on: December 08, 2015, 08:09:44 PM »
Jbignes5:

This is the conclusion from watching the RMS clip under discussion:  He has not demonstrated that his compounds show any advantage over the compounds used in a lithium-ion battery when using the metric of energy per unit of mass.

He has not shown this yet in the clip he has a lot of swagger and makes it seem that he has demonstrated this.

And you cannot refute what I am saying.  The evidence is right there in the clip itself.

MileHigh

Offline jbignes5

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #161 on: December 08, 2015, 08:18:59 PM »



 I won't stop saying what you are doing is misleading no matter what nana booboo you claim.


 I am merely showing you that his video is trying to show others the joy he gets from experimenting and what he has learned. He never claims the numbers are spot on. No where in that video does he state that. In fact he is very clear they are approximations. Plus he cuts off the test at the end knowing there is more energy left in the hybrid unit.


 The numbers he shows for the battery is what is written on the package and we all know how those numbers never quite reflect the reality of that battery anyways.
 
 Yes batteries have a capacitance inherit to them. This is due to the plates of copper and aluminum being so close to one another. If they were shorted via the electrolyte then the battery would not even work period.


Offline MileHigh

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #162 on: December 08, 2015, 08:27:27 PM »
The only misleading is the claim that he has outperformed lithium-ion batteries with his compound.  It's supposed to be a measurement clip, watch it again.

You are still tied to that thin chain.  You need to wake up and break the chain.

Offline jbignes5

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #163 on: December 08, 2015, 08:39:06 PM »


 All plates that are separated even by water are capacitors. A battery uses the chemicals in between those plates to separate charges and allow them to collect around the opposite charged plate. It is a capacitor no matter what you say.


 Second is the plates on almost all of the li-ion batteries are made from copper and aluminum. Each material has an electronegative value. for aluminum it is 1.61 and copper has 1.90. Due to these values certain material like copper and aluminum must be in the correct orientation of the positive and negative terminals. This is what polarizes the battery into a biased capacitor that can increase above that spread of .29 volts. This fact creates an soft diode like effect and charging must break down that effect first to charge the material between the plates. All batteries are capacitors weather you like it or not. Just that in a battery the chemicals or material are used to increase the effect. Where do you think the electrolytic caps get their self recharge ability albeit a rather small self recharge?

Offline jbignes5

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #164 on: December 08, 2015, 08:57:51 PM »
The only misleading is the claim that he has outperformed lithium-ion batteries with his compound.  It's supposed to be a measurement clip, watch it again.

You are still tied to that thin chain.  You need to wake up and break the chain.


 Breaking the chain here:


 What he did say is that for a given amount of material used he could store more in his hybrid then a lithium ion battery of more material. Pound for pound he is exactly right. Even with the rudimentary analysis he has done he shows this and given the fact that he did not discharge his hybrid fully in that video I would say that shows the errors were fully acknowledged to be his advantage in this case. You seem to focus only on what you want to see and don't think anything about the fact that the test was not fully complete when he cut off the test early due to time restraints.