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Author Topic: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?  (Read 119342 times)

Offline PIH123

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #105 on: December 05, 2015, 06:19:17 AM »
Thank you for the support.

It has nothing to do with support.
I don't know you.

But I do know, after reading your posts, that the B Type EESD is not what it portrayed to be.

This website is mostly for entertainment for me.
I arrived here when I was looking for a way to create my own circuit boards.

Good fun since then.


But I will say, that I hope when someone types "B Type EESD" into google, the first hit they get is this thread on OU.com
If they are looking into that or RMS or SunVault and read this thread, they may take pause.
And that is mostly thanks to you, but also to me and anyone else posting here recently, including JimBoot.

Same goes for the dead QEG and Waynes Zydro etc


Pete

Offline tinman

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #106 on: December 05, 2015, 06:32:11 AM »
Well this thread is no longer about RMS's measurement errors--it's now about who is right and who is wrong--who said what to who,and who insulted who.

So being of a neutral party,i am going to brave the waters,and put my 2 cents worth in.


MH was putting forth his disagreement toward RMS's conclusion and test method's used to compare the energy capacity per volume of weight of his EESD to that of a Li Ion battery. All was good,but then the trouble started. The following two posts were made by Jimboot (who i consider to be an FE friend-this is where the neutral party thing comes in),Jimboot is an FE friend,and MH is some one i hold great respect for.

Quote Jimboot post 4 to MH- :Are you suggesting his measurements are wrong? Or methodology erroneous?
Quote Jimboot post 13 to MH :I'd follow RMS before you MH. No offence but RMS has been very generous with his time and info over the years and always up front whilst encouraging others. Not a slight on you but rigorous support for this bloke. To cast aspersions anonymously says more about you than him. I don't about over there but over here 0.62 is not a penny stock. They are 152% up on the year so I think their investors would be very happy.


Jim-when you said-I'd follow RMS before you MH,this reads to me also that you believe RMS's measurements over that of what MH has stated. The fact is,MH is absolutely correct in every thing he has said,and so that means that i would believe in what MH has said,over that of RMS-as RMS's test made no comparison what so ever between his EESD to that of the Li Ion batteries energy capacity per weight volume-->and RMS's video was all about doing just that. As you said Jim- I think their investors would be very happy. So RMS and his company associates deliver this kind of data to there investor's,but the data is both incorrect and misleading in every way. Remember,this is other peoples money they are playing with here,so honesty and accuracy are foremost,and that video was anything but.

I reread the entire thread again before making this post,and i can say that MH held his tongue long after others started letting there's flap.

So the fact remains.
RMS's EESD seems easy to make,safe,and holds a good deal of energy for what it is,!BUT! in no way did RMS do any sort of energy storage per weight volume comparison test between his EESD and the Li Ion battery-->and that is exactly what RMS tried to portray--he tried to put forth the idea that the EESD held more energy per weight volume than that of a Li Ion battery.

So all of you that think MH is incorrect with what he has to say about RMS's test--you better think again,as he (MH) is 100% correct-->again.


Brad

Offline PIH123

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #107 on: December 05, 2015, 06:53:17 AM »
.
.
.
Brad

This post is one of the most important in the history of this website for anyone looking for OU.

Coming from Tinman (the most likely to achieve) who may have something and is willing to listen to arguments.

And in support of the most likely person to make those arguments.
(sorry, did I say it was not about support)


Pete

Offline PIH123

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #108 on: December 05, 2015, 07:23:17 AM »
And now show me what you have built or invented ?

Following the script to the letter.

First question the number of posts and why they are at an OU website in the first place.
Next comes anonymity.

Number 3, you just nailed above.

Want hints for 4 onwards ?
4. Paid industry troll
5. Lot's of swearing
6. threaten to beat him up
7. bring up unrelated stuff such as PI is not equal 3.1416

For 8 onwards, read any 400 plus page threads.

Pete

Offline MagnaProp

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #109 on: December 05, 2015, 07:53:48 AM »
...Tinman is in the same boat for the capacitors as far as I am concerned...

...MH is some one i hold great respect for...

Not trying to ruffle feather but the two seemingly contradictory quotes have me wondering if perhaps your trifene video was another teaching aid on how easily, people like myself, can be dupped? A simple yes or no will satisfy my curiousity.

Offline Jimboot

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #110 on: December 05, 2015, 09:42:57 AM »
Thanks for the big omission on your part acknowledging that I did not commit slander.  I suppose you would "break" if you actually acknowledged it.  I do not abuse people on this forum and I am quite certain that many people have read me over the past 12 months and they know that to be true.  I make a conscious effort to be civil.  So, I stand by what I said, period.  You keep digging yourself into a deeper hole as you continue to make that pitch, and we can't forget that you openly threatened physical violence on me.  It's time for you to stop.  The last part of your posting is just a bizarre train wreck.

The winners here are the people that are now wiser and understand that Robert Murray-Smith presented junk data.  It's up to him to correct his error if he wants to gain credibility.  That is what this thread is all about.
I have shown you several times in this thread where yo have been abusive to me and others. I won't post it again, you and I obviously have very different ideas of what is civil For instance "your FOS" most people would consider abusive language. Once again you think I care about the calculations. I do not.


Brad. - I say I would follow RMS before MH as he builds and encourages others and he is generous with his time. I have never heard him say anything bad about anyone. MH on the other hand, posts are littered insults and abuse. WHich is of course why he was banned. NOt because he was "defending" himself. He's in denial and now claims I threatened physical violence. I suggested he repeat those insults to my face but knew he would not.


Now we have a  nonsensical claim that somehow RMS YT channel will be used to encourage investors. It is not under the company umbrella, it's his personal channel. IT'S NOT AN INVESTOR PRESENTATION! There's a difference.


I think the investors will be very happy as their share price is up 150% on the year. Pretty good. That was in response to MH claiming they were a "penny stock" and that RMS was trying to deceive. Which is by MH own definition, slander. He wont be sued though as they would have to show damage.


Pete, nice to meet you. If you look back in this thread you will see I said exactly what you said. I have no problem with MH knowledge, it is the way he delivers it. I have said he behaves like a coward. Calling people names and being abusive from the cover of anonymity. Then he makes claims he has not abused anyone over the last 12 months. I was pointing out his inconsistency of claiming others make "falsehoods" but so does he. To put RMS in the same category as QEG? Really? No my mum did not christen me Jimboot lol. This is me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0GWnKGyo38 I'm the one sans hair.


Once again I will restate. I have no issue with anonymity. I do have an issue when it is used in the way I have described above. All I have ever asked is that we treat each other with mutual respect. MH obviously disagrees and believes he should be able to call people names.


I think MH should remain anonymous. I honestly think that the amount enemies he has made here would be a good reason to do so. (i'm not one of them) It'd be nice though if he could work a little bit harder at being civil. You are what you publish.

Offline tinman

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #111 on: December 05, 2015, 11:22:43 AM »
Not trying to ruffle feather but the two seemingly contradictory quotes have me wondering if perhaps your trifene video was another teaching aid on how easily, people like myself, can be dupped? A simple yes or no will satisfy my curiousity.

This quote from MH-(Tinman is in the same boat for the capacitors as far as I am concerned...) was an incorrect belief that my video was some sort of measurement video-which it was not. In that video(in all the triphene video's) i show only a run time on a non specified amount of energy within the capacitor. The 2600F capacity is a close guess as to what the capacity is when the cap is fully charged. This was estimated against run times,volt and amp readings over time using a known 100 farad cap. When both caps were charged to the same voltage,the triphene cap would run the same load 26 times longer than the 100 farad cap. So the quick and dirty calculation for capacity was 26 x 100--this i already stated some post back.

Quote
wondering if perhaps your trifene video was another teaching aid on how easily, people like myself, can be dupped?

No,the only time that happened was when things took off faster than i could get the last of the 3 video's up explaining what was going on.It was about how easily the akula 1 watt LED job could be made to look like it worked-and the video's did just that.But because it was about the akula device,people went balistic on it,and the next day after work when i checked my youtube and forum's,it spread like wild fire. So the first two were removed,and the 3rd was uploaded explaining how easily it could be done.
Lesson learned on my behalf,and any replication i do of fake devices like the akula rubbish from now on,will be one video showing how it was,and can be faked. It was ment to help people out,but it backfired,and i got a kick in the pants--shit happens.

The triphene cap is real,but not without it's problems that i cant seem to solve-like the low amount of charge cycles i can get before the cap just fails,and the fact that the two plates have to be squeezed hard together for best performance. So i have passed the mix on to a few people,and i believe they are still experimenting with it.

Brad

Offline MileHigh

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #112 on: December 05, 2015, 01:02:45 PM »
Jimboot:

I will tell you again, I am not abusive and insulting and I make a conscious effort to be civil.  And I am human and imperfect too.  You have been playing a game of "attack the messenger to draw attention away from the message" and it's enough now.  Don't threaten physical violence on me again.

Quote
That was in response to MH claiming they were a "penny stock"

Here is a definition of a "penny stock" - "a common stock valued at less than one dollar, and therefore highly speculative."  Now take a look at the attached chart for Sunvault Energy and observe how they are a penny stock and as of now they have no price to earnings ratio.

So it's time for you to stop your nonsense.  I am not the issue here, the issue is that a person that is working for a company in a technical capacity, where that company pitches better batteries, clearly showed that he is apparently incapable of measuring the energy content in one of his own batteries.  Any reasonable person can decide for themselves if he is clueless of if he is not clueless and has other motivations.  Either way, the clip is a lie and he has been informed of this fact and as of December 5, 2015 he has not retracted his false claims and taken the clip down.

MileHigh

Offline Jimboot

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #113 on: December 05, 2015, 02:35:14 PM »
MH You posted Simon Derricutts response earlier. He did not accuse RMS of anything or was disparaging in any way. He was polite.  Do you see the difference?

Offline tinman

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #114 on: December 05, 2015, 03:40:01 PM »
To the Mile High club ... Your doing it again ? Accusing someone of a crime an illegal act yet wrong or right on the numbers is not the question its how you have chosen to attack someone that can not defend himself ... He may be wrong but he may also be right ? But forget it as the man is coming forward by your demands ! So what if he is wrong but I am here to say that a battery can in fact be completely recharged if the conditions are made and set for that to happen... Now stop the digging and looking for research that can not be defended as you can never be the police man the judge the jury the executioner. STOP IT SON ! Its a waist of time !

Now I demand an end to looking for free energy and lets all get on and build it ........ My job in life is building a mega watt free energy system for as little money as possible and I do have a few good options to chose from but at the end of the day its going to the cost that determines the end designe and product.

These are my options ......

1 Negatively charged coils

2 Electron propagation

3 Magnetic vacuums

4 Gravity converters

5 Unified field oscillators

6 Radiant ambient energy

7 Covalent bond frequency convertors

8 Kinetic atomic expansion

9 Solar energy storage

10 combinations off all the above .....


Now I have isolated them all ........ hahahhaha Have you ?







 

 

 





 








 

   

9 is the only device that is real. The rest is your wet dream babble.

You still need help.

Offline MagnaProp

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #115 on: December 05, 2015, 08:49:52 PM »
...No...The triphene cap is real...
Sounds good. Thanks for all the info on it. You do some of, if not the best, work around here. I respect your decision to give the triphene mix to those you have chosen and thank you for the info you do provide to us on your designs.

Offline Nink

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #116 on: December 06, 2015, 03:30:42 AM »

The triphene cap is real,but not without it's problems that i cant seem to solve-like the low amount of charge cycles i can get before the cap just fails,and the fact that the two plates have to be squeezed hard together for best performance. So i have passed the mix on to a few people,and i believe they are still experimenting with it.

Hi Tinman

Sounds like you have a lot going on with your triphene cap. I don't know the 11 secret herbs and spices but you mention that one of them is some type of crystal structure (epson salt or  Rochelle salt etc)  and the required pressure as well as the self charging aspect all reminds me of the crystal cells we all made a few years ago. perhaps you have a galvanic reaction between two metals (graphite is metal)  with a salt compound under a lot of pressure.  With the crystal cells if your plates were not thick enough corrosion would create a hole in the metal, If it was not under pressure it stopped working, two much pressure they cracked and stopped working, discharge them they charge back up again.

If I didn't know better I believe what you have invented is a  combo crystal battery  and super capacitor  (graphene, dielectric separator and an electrolyte)

Offline MileHigh

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #117 on: December 06, 2015, 08:10:33 AM »
The measurement issue for Brad's capacitor and RMS's capacitor claim is equally important as the issue just covered for the battery.  Simple demonstrations where a capacitor will power a small DC motor powering a fan or extrapolations from some other set of data will not cut it.

In this RMS video he claims that he has made a supercapacitor the size of a credit card that's 2000 Farads:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mno-XDP2o2c

Yet he makes no measurements to back up the claim.

Here is what I said to him on that clip:

<<<
It all sounds pretty amazing.  In theory you could use solar panels to pulse charge the supercapacitor bank and at the same time have a boost converter/inverter to draw power from the capacitor bank to produce mains power to power your house.  You could have a battery bank to tap into as a last resort when the energy in the capacitor bank gets too low.

I haven't watched many of your videos, but if I could make one request it would be to do some clips where you make serious measurements on the size of your supercapacitors.  Something like a resistor to discharge the supercap and then record voltages and times and then crunch the numbers to determine the capacitance.  Anecdotal demonstrations where you power a motor can only go so far.

Honestly, I think it would be amazing if a solar panel/supercap/inverter system could meet the needs of say 90% or more of a typical home's energy requirements.  If we drastically reduce the need for chemical batteries and the problems of disposing of chemical batteries it would make for a cleaner renewable domestic energy system.
>>>

After a second request he started to balk and get upset and then he lost his cool and started calling me nasty names.  Then he presumably regained his composure and deleted all of his comments.  This was on a Laserssaber supercapacitor clip.

Here is the main comment I made to him:

<<<
+Robert Murray-Smith What I know is that I asked you on your channel to make measurements of the capacitance to back up your claims and you flinched there also just like you are flinching here.  You made a serious technical mistake with your tap charging of your supercapacitors and you would not admit to it and instead of thanking me for politely pointing out the issue to you,  you denied it and subsequently deleted all of my comments.  So you seem to have some issues.

A Maxwell K2Series BCAP 2000 Farad ultracapacitor is in a can that is 10 cm long x 6 cm in diameter.  In one of your clips you claim that you made a home-brew 2000 Farad capacitor that is roughly the size of a credit card.  Let us be conservative and say that you are claiming 10X the energy density by volume with your credit card sized capacitor that you claim is 2000 Farads.

The onus is on you to prove that is true - that your credit-card-sized capacitor is 2000 Farads because right now I do not believe it.

Apparently you are making the assumption that people don't want to see you make measurements to back up your rather fantastic claims on YouTube.  I can assure you that many people do indeed want to see you back up your claims with measurements.

You attract attention from free energy enthusiasts and that field is rife with people making fake claims and enthusiasts that almost never ask the basic questions that should be asked.  2000 Farads in a form factor roughly the size of a credit card does not smell right to me so I am asking you to back up your claims with credible, honest, and open measurements.  Yet you are flinching and trying to be dismissive of my perfectly legitimate request and also trying to use deflection by trying to impugn my character.  Why don't you just make measurements and back up your claims like any person building supercapacitors should be happy to do?
>>>

Anyone making home-brew supercapacitors needs to make a serious attempt to make a measurement of the capacitance.  It would be nice to see people do this with a bare minimum of diligence, like for example making three measurements and then averaging out the results.  What would be much more impressive would be to see people make measurements on their capacitor by two or even three different ways.  Also, the "ESR," the equivalent series resistance, for any capacitor is extremely important and they should try to measure that also.

MileHigh

Offline Jimboot

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #118 on: December 06, 2015, 08:28:31 AM »
Did you copy the whole conversation? Or just those couple of comments? It would be good to see the whole thing in context.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #119 on: December 06, 2015, 02:01:22 PM »
I can only show half of the conversation:

Me:  <<< +Robert Murray-Smith What Lasersaber, Tinman, and you need to do is make credible measurements of the capacitance of your home-made supercapacitors.  Are you competitive with what is commercially available or not?  Is your energy density competitive with what is commercially available or not?  I looked at one of Tinman's clips and his claimed Farad capacity and what was shown in the clip was not credible. You three gentlemen need to make open, honest, and credible clips where you precisely measure the capacitance of your capacitors.  Are you guys really onto something, or can anybody go onto Digikey and order supercapacitors that outperform your home-brew supercapacitors? We are talking about the difference between anecdotal demonstrations of what the supercapacitors can do vs. getting serious and making real measurements.  >>>

RMS deleted comment:  <<<...>>>

Me:  <<< +Robert Murray-Smith It's not about convincing me, rather it's about convincing yourself that you are onto something.  There are several ways to measure the value of a capacitor.  I suggest that you research them and then make a clip showing your measurements.  Building a capacitor and measuring the value of the capacitor go hand in hand.  It does not have to be a scientific paper, just a good informative clip so that your viewers will benefit from it. >>>

RMS deleted comment:  <<<...>>>

Me:  <<< +Robert Murray-Smith No Robert, it's a perfectly sensible thing to say.  You are building a capacitor, and you should make a measurement of your device.  It's as plain as day.  I am sensing that you might not know how to do it.  Just Google it, learn about how to go about it, and then do some experiments.  >>>

RMS deleted comment:  <<<...>>>

Me:  <<< +Robert Murray-Smith What I know is that I asked you on your channel to make measurements of the capacitance to back up your claims and you flinched there also just like you are flinching here.  You made a serious technical mistake with your tap charging of your supercapacitors and you would not admit to it and instead of thanking me for politely pointing out the issue to you,  you denied it and subsequently deleted all of my comments.  So you seem to have some issues. A Maxwell K2Series BCAP 2000 Farad ultracapacitor is in a can that is 10 cm long x 6 cm in diameter.  In one of your clips you claim that you made a home-brew 2000 Farad capacitor that is roughly the size of a credit card.  Let us be conservative and say that you are claiming 10X the energy density by volume with your credit card sized capacitor that you claim is 2000 Farads. The onus is on you to prove that is true - that your credit-card-sized capacitor is 2000 Farads because right now I do not believe it. Apparently you are making the assumption that people don't want to see you make measurements to back up your rather fantastic claims on YouTube.  I can assure you that many people do indeed want to see you back up your claims with measurements. You attract attention from free energy enthusiasts and that field is rife with people making fake claims and enthusiasts that almost never ask the basic questions that should be asked.  2000 Farads in a form factor roughly the size of a credit card does not smell right to me so I am asking you to back up your claims with credible, honest, and open measurements.  Yet you are flinching and trying to be dismissive of my perfectly legitimate request and also trying to use deflection by trying to impugn my character.  Why don't you just make measurements and back up your claims like any person building supercapacitors should be happy to do? >>>

RMS deleted comment:  <<<...>>>

Me:  <<< +Robert Murray-Smith You are collapsing under your own weight and your obvious phony pretense - if you were real you would be pleased to make a credible, honest measurement of the capacitance of your devices.  >>>

His last comment was quite nasty, so presumably afterwards he regained his composure and then deleted all of his comments.  I questioned his ability to make the capacitance measurement because in his "tap charging" clip he "tap charges" his sample supercapacitors, which presumably have a maximum voltage of under three volts, by connecting them directly to a bench power supply set to something like 18 volts.  One more time, that is an almost insane thing to do if you are supposedly technically competent.  I politely told him that he might damage his samples like that and "punch a hole" through them because of the serious potential to over-voltage them and he balked and refused to acknowledge that there could be a problem.  This discussion was also deleted shortly afterwards by RMS.