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Author Topic: Winding my first (bifilar) coil.  (Read 9046 times)

Offline antimony

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Winding my first (bifilar) coil.
« on: November 24, 2015, 10:06:09 AM »
Hi, i have bought some Cu wire, #23 and #26 that i am going to use to make a bifilar coil that i will use in my SSG.
I bought 3 spools of #26 wire that are 90 meters each, and 5 spools of #23 wire that are 40 meters each, so i will have to join them while winding them.
How do i do this, or can it be done?

Are there any other tips that you would like to give me before i get started with the winding?

I would really appreciate all help and feedback. :)

Ps. I saw a video on youtube where this guy used bathroom fan coils in his design. I guess they were as they were, and not rewound. Can you do this generally?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2iUiSJJ5D0

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Winding my first (bifilar) coil.
« on: November 24, 2015, 10:06:09 AM »

Offline tinman

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Re: Winding my first (bifilar) coil.
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2015, 10:46:37 AM »
Hi, i have bought some Cu wire, #23 and #26 that i am going to use to make a bifilar coil that i will use in my SSG.
I bought 3 spools of #26 wire that are 90 meters each, and 5 spools of #23 wire that are 40 meters each, so i will have to join them while winding them.
How do i do this, or can it be done?

Are there any other tips that you would like to give me before i get started with the winding?

I would really appreciate all help and feedback. :)

Ps. I saw a video on youtube where this guy used bathroom fan coils in his design. I guess they were as they were, and not rewound. Can you do this generally?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2iUiSJJ5D0

Your AWG 23 per 40 meters will give you a resistance of around 2.7 ohms,and 40 meters of your AWG 26 will give you about  5.3 ohms resistance. 5.3 ohms is good for a 12 volt pulse motor,but 2.7 may be a little low-->but if you use a 2n3055 transistor,it will handle the current without much trouble- if you go with the 40 meters of AWG 23 as your run coil.

I have found that winding the(what is called) trigger coil on your core first,and then the heavier run coil over the top of that,gives much better results and performance. So i would go with a core that is around 19mm in diameter,and around 65mm long. Then wind your 40 meters of AWG 26(your trigger coil) on the core,place one layer of insulation tape over that,then wind on your 40 meters of AWG 23(your run coil). Your magnets for the rotor would best have a diameter of 1/2 to 3/4s that of the coil core. Also alternate the poles of the magnets on your rotor-->do not use all north or south out,despite what you may have heard. This way,if you are going to use a soft iron wire for your core material,the core will not become magnetized after time.


Brad

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Winding my first (bifilar) coil.
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2015, 12:30:13 PM »
Hi, i have bought some Cu wire, #23 and #26 that i am going to use to make a bifilar coil that i will use in my SSG.
I bought 3 spools of #26 wire that are 90 meters each, and 5 spools of #23 wire that are 40 meters each, so i will have to join them while winding them.
How do i do this, or can it be done?

Are there any other tips that you would like to give me before i get started with the winding?

I would really appreciate all help and feedback. :)

Ps. I saw a video on youtube where this guy used bathroom fan coils in his design. I guess they were as they were, and not rewound. Can you do this generally?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2iUiSJJ5D0

If you intend on having something like a rotor with four poles 90 degrees apart and a single drive coil, then the suggestion is to start by not winding any coils at all.  Just use the spools of wire as is.  I am assuming the actual spools that hold the wire are not magnetic.

You do not need to make a bifilar coil at all.  You can put your trigger coil 90 degrees away from your drive coil.  This will give you the luxury of being able to physically change the trigger coil radial distance and angle so that you will have completely flexible trigger pulse timing for energizing the drive coil.  This will give you a superior pulse motor design by far.

If you want an instant bifilar coil to experiment with anyway, just buy a spool of speaker wire.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Winding my first (bifilar) coil.
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2015, 12:30:13 PM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Winding my first (bifilar) coil.
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2015, 03:34:24 PM »
If you intend on having something like a rotor with four poles 90 degrees apart and a single drive coil, then the suggestion is to start by not winding any coils at all.  Just use the spools of wire as is.  I am assuming the actual spools that hold the wire are not magnetic.

You do not need to make a bifilar coil at all.  You can put your trigger coil 90 degrees away from your drive coil.  This will give you the luxury of being able to physically change the trigger coil radial distance and angle so that you will have completely flexible trigger pulse timing for energizing the drive coil.  This will give you a superior pulse motor design by far.

If you want an instant bifilar coil to experiment with anyway, just buy a spool of speaker wire.

Quote
You do not need to make a bifilar coil at all.  You can put your trigger coil 90 degrees away from your drive coil.  This will give you the luxury of being able to physically change the trigger coil radial distance and angle so that you will have completely flexible trigger pulse timing for energizing the drive coil.  This will give you a superior pulse motor design by far.

MH
Doing it that way dose not pull the transistor on hard when the transistor starts to conduct. I have done this many time's,and unless you use a darlington transistor,the motor will be crap. The whole idea of having the trigger coil rapped along with the run coil ,is to get that transformer cascade effect between the two,and this switches the transistor on hard.
Most of the power sent to the base is from this transformer action,not from the generated current from the magnets on the rotor.. If you use a second coil to solely generate the current required to switch the transistor on,you will bog down the rotor from the normal generator effect,and your transistor will not switch on as hard-resulting in less power being sent to the drive coil--not to mention toasted transistors from soft switching.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Winding my first (bifilar) coil.
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2015, 09:33:43 PM »
It's interesting that you mention the transformer cascading effect.  You know when you see multiple pulses per rotor magnet pass (the "chopping" effect) and then as the rotor speeds up finally you get to only one pulse per rotor magnet pass?  I believe that's the transformer cascading effect working "against" the trigger coil.  In other words, the trigger coil turns on the transistor, then the drive coil starts to switch on, and that couples back to the trigger coil to switch off the transistor.  Then the whole process repeats itself over again.  It's only when the rotor speeds up enough that that goes away.  To me that suggests that the interaction between the drive coil and the trigger coil is tending to slow down the switching process.  However I could be wrong or missing something because you have built several pulse motors and I haven't.

At least with a separate and independent pickup coil you avoid the "chopping" effect and you have the infinitely variable timing to play with.

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Re: Winding my first (bifilar) coil.
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2015, 09:33:43 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Winding my first (bifilar) coil.
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2015, 09:58:36 PM »
@antimony,

Wrap it tight! Professionals hang weights between the spinning lathes and the wire skeins to insure uniform tautness.   

Offline antimony

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Re: Winding my first (bifilar) coil.
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2015, 03:11:16 AM »
Your AWG 23 per 40 meters will give you a resistance of around 2.7 ohms,and 40 meters of your AWG 26 will give you about  5.3 ohms resistance. 5.3 ohms is good for a 12 volt pulse motor,but 2.7 may be a little low-->but if you use a 2n3055 transistor,it will handle the current without much trouble- if you go with the 40 meters of AWG 23 as your run coil.

I have found that winding the(what is called) trigger coil on your core first,and then the heavier run coil over the top of that,gives much better results and performance. So i would go with a core that is around 19mm in diameter,and around 65mm long. Then wind your 40 meters of AWG 26(your trigger coil) on the core,place one layer of insulation tape over that,then wind on your 40 meters of AWG 23(your run coil). Your magnets for the rotor would best have a diameter of 1/2 to 3/4s that of the coil core. Also alternate the poles of the magnets on your rotor-->do not use all north or south out,despite what you may have heard. This way,if you are going to use a soft iron wire for your core material,the core will not become magnetized after time.


Brad

Hej Brad, thanks for the info.  It really cleared out a lot of things.
I have made one spool out of 20 mm pvc tubing , and wooden ends. The visible tubing is 65 mm.

In schematic it say that the bifilar wire is going to be wind 850 turns. I dont think 40 meters is going to be enough for 850 turns,  so i have to join wires from another full spool.
Do i solder the ends together?

Sorry that i dont respond to all of you, i dont have access to my laptop now.

Ps.  I found your channel on YouTube, Tinman.  I will check it out tomorrow.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Winding my first (bifilar) coil.
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2015, 03:11:16 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Winding my first (bifilar) coil.
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2015, 11:49:30 AM »
Hej Brad, thanks for the info.  It really cleared out a lot of things.
I have made one spool out of 20 mm pvc tubing , and wooden ends. The visible tubing is 65 mm.

In schematic it say that the bifilar wire is going to be wind 850 turns. I dont think 40 meters is going to be enough for 850 turns,  so i have to join wires from another full spool.
Do i solder the ends together?

Sorry that i dont respond to all of you, i dont have access to my laptop now.

Ps.  I found your channel on YouTube, Tinman.  I will check it out tomorrow.

Just wind on the 40 meters of each size wire-->it will be fine.
Saying to wind 85o turns means nothing at all--it is just something they put on paper because they need to. The original amount of turns for the SSG by Bedini stated that 450 turns was optimal--but optimal for what?. There are so many variations in pulse motors,so you just start with what you have,and work and learn from there on. Turns or raps on the coil come down to what current your transistor can handle,what voltage you will be using to run the motor,what size your rotor is,what magnets you are using--there are so many things that need to add up to make a good pulse motor,but the best way to learn is by trial and error.


Brad

Offline antimony

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Re: Winding my first (bifilar) coil.
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2015, 04:42:20 PM »
Just wind on the 40 meters of each size wire-->it will be fine.
Saying to wind 85o turns means nothing at all--it is just something they put on paper because they need to. The original amount of turns for the SSG by Bedini stated that 450 turns was optimal--but optimal for what?. There are so many variations in pulse motors,so you just start with what you have,and work and learn from there on. Turns or raps on the coil come down to what current your transistor can handle,what voltage you will be using to run the motor,what size your rotor is,what magnets you are using--there are so many things that need to add up to make a good pulse motor,but the best way to learn is by trial and error.


Brad

Ok, i will do that then. If you didn´t notice, i am kind of new to electronics in whole, so if i read "wind the wire 850 turns" i will try to do that.
I am doing this project in hopes that i will gain some knowledge from it, and progress from there.

Thanks Brad. I appreciate you helping me. :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Winding my first (bifilar) coil.
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2015, 04:42:20 PM »
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Offline antimony

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Re: Winding my first (bifilar) coil.
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2015, 07:54:30 PM »
Hey, Brad. I took your advice, and wound two coils with the whole spool of 0.40 mm until it was no more wire. Of course i had 0.57 mm wire too, but i didn´t use up the whole spool of that wire.
I counted the turns on the last one, and it came to 487 turns. The first one i lost track of, and didn´t bother to count that one.

I remember you wrote that there were some ohm resistance value that you usually are aiming for. Is that correct, and if so, can i just use my multimeter to get a reading of it?

Another thing i was wondering about is the rotor. I am using a hard drive rotor now, but its bearings are very bad and would like to change to something different.
I was thinking i would use plexi glass. Also, i have a few great ball bearings that i have worked for a while now.
How do you normally install a rotor with ball bearings?

Thanks in advance.

Offline antimony

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Re: Winding my first (bifilar) coil.
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2016, 09:19:25 PM »
Hi guys.  Im sorry to bump this old thread,  but i didnt want to make a new one for the thing i want to ask.

I am working on a replication of Lawrence Tseungs wheel,  and i have read that he used air core coils with 3000 turns of #32 gauge wire. 
Would i be able to decrease the number of turns if i wound the wire on a spool with a core center thats about 10-15 mm in diameter?

Another thing i wanted to ask was about was which magnet wire thats the most useful to have at hand?

Thanks in advance.  :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Winding my first (bifilar) coil.
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2016, 09:19:25 PM »
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Offline verpies

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Re: Winding my first (bifilar) coil.
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2016, 10:23:53 PM »
Do I solder the ends together?
There are two ways to join the ends together:

 

OneLink