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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: Creedo on October 20, 2006, 07:24:30 PM
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I have been brainstorming a little bit this morning and had an epiphany. Now we all know that an internal combustion engine works by compressing gas vapor and oxygen at top dead center? or TDC, of the cylinders compression cycle and then BAM?ignites it causing the piston to slam downward thus turning the?. Well you know the rest.
WHAT IF this same principle was recreated in similar with opposing magnets at TDC? well of course we all know it would need to be a few degrees after TDC? but I think you all get my point. Would such a configuration utilizing magnets in a configuration that models the everyday gas engine be possible? Of course there would need to be a few modifications and timing issues, but? could it work? Heck even electro magnets used much like spark plugs might still qualify it for an over unity device with the proper timings.
Am I on to something here? Or is this something that has been tried?
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So to elaborate a little more, it would basicly be a crankshaft type design, and no the concept wouldnt be used to power vehicles... at least I dont see how... but maybe generators. Would depend if the friction could be kept to a minimum and in the case where electromagnets are involved it would of course need to be able to create more power than it uses.
/end rant :P
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Could you post an illustration of this idea?
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I could but it would take some time to draw... like a week or so.
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How about this...
"mechanism consists of 2 pairs balancing magnets and shield at either end as per LFMA patent, 2 reciprocating connecting rods each terminating in S & N pole magnets as shown below, con rods to be linked together by rachet or escapement "X" and suitable linkages from ratchet to move shields from (a) to (b). (I= shield, <- or -> = force direction and conrod/magnet assembly motion )
(a)
N S------------------N I S F and motion = <-
X
N I S------------------N S F and motion = ->
(b)
then switch the shield position by a linkage from "X" so:
N I S-------------------N S F = ->
X
N S------------------N I S F = <-
Question: would this "hang"?.....or by timing the insertion/shaping of the shield and using a suitable flywheel on the rachet could this be overcome? "
now consider how a Harley-Davidson crankshaft/big-end is configured (i.e. normal and forked conrod sitting on same journal)......ideas?
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I had been thinking the same idea but, wasn't ready to post it. That was how I found this site, looking to see who had already tried this.
Basically, the pistons in the combustion engine would be replaced with a magnet and the where the valves/spark plugs are, would be an opposing magnet.
I was trying to find a cheap model V-8 engine so I could try this concept.
Magnets could also both be electromagnets, so you could maybe reverse polarity and have power on both the "push" and "pull" strokes for each cylider. And, unlike a four stroke, where you only get power every other rotation, this would be a constant push and pull through the entire rotation.
Not over-unity, but mine was a premise to power the automobile. 12-V car battery/starter begins the rotation and then the cars generator takes over to provide the power to drive the electromagnets.
But, even so, this could still drive a larger generator that should be capable of producing more output energy then required to drive it, say by including a transmission that shifts gears to reduce torque required to drive the generator.
Now, just to find that plastic engine with the right sized electromagnets!
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I was on a site the other day and I am sure the link came from one of the threads in here.
Basically it was a crank and a piston.
On top of the piston was a magnet and in the head above the other piston was another magnet that repelled the piston downwards.
As the crank rotated it pushed a piece of magnetic shielding in the two magnets and the piston went back to the top, as it hit top end the shield was again mechanically slidden out of the way and so on.
Nice animation as well. Maybe someone else remembers it and can post the link.
Regards
Sean.
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i did a quick search here at overunity.com and i think this is the thread you are talking about.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,600.0.html ;D
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Thanks for that Freeenergy
But was not that one.
In the thread there was a web link that took you to a really nice animation showing the full workings.
Will dig through my favourites in IE when I get a chance, I am sure I bookmarked it.
Regards
Sean.
i did a quick search here at overunity.com and i think this is the thread you are talking about.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,600.0.html ;D
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So... a camshaft and piston approach to a self powerd magnet motor is a logical one after all?
...and here I was starting to think I would get laughed at... hehe :D
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And not to get too far off topic here, but would it make sence to place magnet motors inside a vaccuum to eliminate air friction?
...always thinking.... ;)
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Hi all
@Sean
The motor design you mean, here in overunity.com is known as Russian Magnetmotor. You will find it here in the magnet motor section.
kr
2Tiger
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Here is the link:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,880.0.html
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told you it works... 8)
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I was on a site the other day and I am sure the link came from one of the threads in here.
Basically it was a crank and a piston.
On top of the piston was a magnet and in the head above the other piston was another magnet that repelled the piston downwards.
As the crank rotated it pushed a piece of magnetic shielding in the two magnets and the piston went back to the top, as it hit top end the shield was again mechanically slidden out of the way and so on.
Nice animation as well. Maybe someone else remembers it and can post the link.
Regards
Sean.
Check out Hahoo group/EV Gray ...Konehead
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EVGRAY/message/12831
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Thats the one 2 tiger!!
Slow site for downloading but sweet idea
Many thanks
Sean.
Here is the link:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,880.0.html
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Hi,
If you are not very keen on reading the Russian language, try using online website translators like http://www.online-translator.com/srvurl.asp?lang=en and copy / paste this address: http://kalininaa.narod.ru/
Do not forget to choose the Direction: Russian-English translation
Gyula
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Creedo
As an old drag racer (1970's) I like the idea of a reciprocating piston engine. I have done some background work on the idea (see attach.). I will upload photos and drawings to my page at http://theowlnest.com/kickbypage.html
Peter
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So... a camshaft and piston approach to a self powerd magnet motor is a logical one after all?
...and here I was starting to think I would get laughed at... hehe :D
Nope, I think people are getting a bit obsessed with rotors...there's more than 1 way to skin a cat. Personally, I think that this approach would be easier to build.
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Hi all
Is anyone else actually building a reciprocating piston magnet engine? So far, I have a magnetic piston, a floating wristpin connecting rod, a very unique cylinder and a few electronic parts. It would be great to build this in conjunction and consultation with someone in this group.
Tropes
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Creedo
As an old drag racer (1970's) I like the idea of a reciprocating piston engine. I have done some background work on the idea (see attach.). I will upload photos and drawings to my page at http://theowlnest.com/kickbypage.html
Peter
Hi Peter,
When I saw your picture on the reciprocating piston engine I remembered an interesting trick to make your electromagnet stronger but still using the same current as before. I saw this trick in an old patent where a permanent magnet placed above an electromagnet is kicked up to a distance of 5/8" (1.58cm) when 300mA DC current is switched onto the em coil. Then another permanent magnet is placed UNDER the em coil and for the same 300mA current into the same coil the upper permanent magnet is kicked up as high as 1 1/2" (3.81cm).
I do not know if you are aware of this addition of a permanent magnet flux to that of an electromagnet in such a setup you have in your picture so I thought I mention this to you. It costs only the price of an extra magnet in a particular design.
The patent is US3670189 from 1972 and you can see it here:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3670189.pdf and you need to use Acrobat Reader.
I attached Figs. 10 and 11 below and I edited in red arrow line the two distances involved.
I have just seen your post on looking for common tinkering on the reciprocating piston magnet engine. Unfortunately I have been involved in other "tinkerings" so I cannot join you in this project. By the way I cannot see yet your idea with this machine; do you expect possible overunity from it and if so how? If you feel like talking about it I could understand and maybe comment.
Regards
Gyula
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Gyula
Thanks for your interest. I tried this addition to my other wheel and found that there was a definate increase in repulsion force but this was offset by repulsion when the piston returns to the coil. The RPM actually increased when I reversed the PM creating attraction.
My first goal is to build the reciprocating engine and then consider overunity.
Peter
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Hi Peter,
Yes, I think it is possible and the inventor back in the 1970's used ceramic magnets with less strengths than nowadays Neo magnets have. Perhaps with longer solenoid coils for the electromagnets the distance could be increased, hence the repulsion at the return phase could be less.
rgds
Gyula
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I guess a few others have tinkered with this concept as well
http://www.matchrockets.com/ether/recipmotor.html
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Hi all
I have uploaded photos of parts to http://theowlnest.com/piston.html . The unique cylinder is 4 brass rods spaced around the circumference of the piston. The piston is a graphite tube with a 1/2" neo magnet inside. and the connecting rod is connected by a full-floating wrist pin. I will use a Hall effect IC and transistor to time the spark (activate the coil).
Tropes
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I guess a few others have tinkered with this concept as well
http://www.matchrockets.com/ether/recipmotor.html
Jaszed
Thanks for the cool link.Interesting.
Tropes
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Hi all
I have uploaded photos of parts to http://theowlnest.com/piston.html . The unique cylinder is 4 brass rods spaced around the circumference of the piston. The piston is a graphite tube with a 1/2" neo magnet inside. and the connecting rod is connected by a full-floating wrist pin. I will use a Hall effect IC and transistor to time the spark (activate the coil).
Tropes
Well it's no screamin' hell but it was fun building. I have uploaded a short video to http://theowlnest.com/piston.html . My power source is a cadmium-nickle 9.6 v. rechargeable and a 6v. sealed lead connected in series for about 15 v.. Now if anyone has some idea of how I can achieve overunity, I am open to suggestions.
Tropes
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hey tropes,
looks neat! at least runs huh! what are using to time the spark? how long will it run on the 9.6v battery? do you have any way to tell how much torque your motor has? i guess you need to do some tests to figure out your horsepower, so we can see shat kind of efficiences you have to start with. there are always ways to increas efficiency.
keep us posted. it would be nice to have a little longer video.
lol
sam
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NIIICE!! Love the video!! Now what you may want to concider is building a few more of these, offset their timings, and connect them all to a common driveshaft with a single flywheel. And you may concider having the piston pulled with magnets on the other side of the stroke. Basicly pulling on the down and up-stroke of the piston.
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hey tropes,
looks neat! at least runs huh! what are using to time the spark? how long will it run on the 9.6v battery? do you have any way to tell how much torque your motor has? i guess you need to do some tests to figure out your horsepower, so we can see shat kind of efficiences you have to start with. there are always ways to increas efficiency.
keep us posted. it would be nice to have a little longer video.
lol
sam
I had to change sites to upload a longer video. It is at http://www.eebeh.com/piston.html Check it out as well as the simple wiring diagram.
Tropes
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Hi Peter,
When I saw your picture on the reciprocating piston engine I remembered an interesting trick to make your electromagnet stronger but still using the same current as before. I saw this trick in an old patent where a permanent magnet placed above an electromagnet is kicked up to a distance of 5/8" (1.58cm) when 300mA DC current is switched onto the em coil. Then another permanent magnet is placed UNDER the em coil and for the same 300mA current into the same coil the upper permanent magnet is kicked up as high as 1 1/2" (3.81cm).
I do not know if you are aware of this addition of a permanent magnet flux to that of an electromagnet in such a setup you have in your picture so I thought I mention this to you. It costs only the price of an extra magnet in a particular design.
Regards
Gyula
Gyula
I used a permanent mag. under the coil and found an increase in RPM. However, the magnet polarity is reversed from the patent. It acts as an attracting magnet pulling the piston down. I thought you might find that interesting. I have posted on a new site http://www.eebeh.com/piston.html
Peter
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I'm a bit confused people, I totally understand the concept as I have experience building engines, etc but this would very inefficient. The losses involved in converting up and down motion into rotational motion is high (your rods and camshaft). A normal electric motor will be far more efficient which uses rotational motion only.
You can build something to work and have a play with but it wouldn't really be practical and certainly not OU, sorry guys!
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Gyula
I used a permanent mag. under the coil and found an increase in RPM. However, the magnet polarity is reversed from the patent. It acts as an attracting magnet pulling the piston down. I thought you might find that interesting. I have posted on a new site http://www.eebeh.com/piston.html
Peter
Hi Peter,
You managed to make me curious and I have tested the setup shown in the patent Figures I had attached a few days ago.
Well, I can confirm the experiment in the patent, I found exactly the same behavior of the forces as it was indicated: when the electromagnet's upper pole is North and you place a rod magnet under the electromagnet with its North pole up (as indicated in the patent Figures) the distance the upper magnet travels is about doubled,
and when you place the rod magnet under the electromagnet with its South pole up (and this is just the opposite case to that of the patent's Figures) the distance the upper magnet travels is reduced to nearly its half value. I use the 'about' and 'nearly' words for describing the change of the distances because the weight of the upper magnet does count, nevertheless the phenomena is steady and repeatable.
I found also that tinkering with the distance between the lower magnet and the electromagnet also counts in how far the upper magnet is able to move up.
So in case you really found as you wrote, it means the magnet you place under the electromagnet works against the flux of the electromagnet and helps when the upper magnet is coming down (coming towards the switched off electromagnet). Of course this operation is also a help for the piston's movement because there is a much bigger attraction force now between the electromagnet's core and the piston's magnet, which force there has not been as big without the lower magnet.
Probably in your practical setup the repel force with the poles polarity as is in the patent cannot manifest as effectively as the attract force due to the piston's mass/weigth + the gravity in the upwards direction. But then you could find this does manifest maybe in your horizontal setup?
Regards
Gyula
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Hi Peter,
You managed to make me curious and I have tested the setup shown in the patent Figures I had attached a few days ago.
Well, I can confirm the experiment in the patent, I found exactly the same behavior of the forces as it was indicated: when the electromagnet's upper pole is North and you place a rod magnet under the electromagnet with its North pole up (as indicated in the patent Figures) the distance the upper magnet travels is about doubled,
and when you place the rod magnet under the electromagnet with its South pole up (and this is just the opposite case to that of the patent's Figures) the distance the upper magnet travels is reduced to nearly its half value. I use the 'about' and 'nearly' words for describing the change of the distances because the weight of the upper magnet does count, nevertheless the phenomena is steady and repeatable.
I found also that tinkering with the distance between the lower magnet and the electromagnet also counts in how far the upper magnet is able to move up.
So in case you really found as you wrote, it means the magnet you place under the electromagnet works against the flux of the electromagnet and helps when the upper magnet is coming down (coming towards the switched off electromagnet). Of course this operation is also a help for the piston's movement because there is a much bigger attraction force now between the electromagnet's core and the piston's magnet, which force there has not been as big without the lower magnet.
Probably in your practical setup the repel force with the poles polarity as is in the patent cannot manifest as effectively as the attract force due to the piston's mass/weigth + the gravity in the upwards direction. But then you could find this does manifest maybe in your horizontal setup?
Regards
Gyula
Gyula
There is no dispute as to the effect of the magnet in the patent.
My discovery is that there is a greater advantage (both horisontal and vertical) to having the magnet poles reversed when the piston is reciprocating. If the piston moves only away from the coil then, obviously, the advantage is as in the patent figure.
Peter
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There may be something to the reciprocating motion of permanent magnets, Wesley Gary (Gary motor/gen)was convinced that rotary machines were at a disadvantage because the attractive or repulsive force was always tangental to the poles, his patents were based on the fact that magnetic forces can be redirected and are much stronger when pole faces and magnetic forces face each other. The problem is always the same though- a shield of some sort redirecting the magnetic field and coming out ahead of the game.If you can do this the geometry is irrelevant, any configuration could work.
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I'm a bit confused people, I totally understand the concept as I have experience building engines, etc but this would very inefficient. The losses involved in converting up and down motion into rotational motion is high (your rods and camshaft). A normal electric motor will be far more efficient which uses rotational motion only.
You can build something to work and have a play with but it wouldn't really be practical and certainly not OU, sorry guys!
Don't be confused Phil. Keep an open mind. There may be something to be learned from a reciprocating magnet motor.
Peter