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Author Topic: Magnet Motor Idea... need feedback  (Read 21131 times)

Offline tropes

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Re: Magnet Motor Idea... need feedback
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2006, 08:11:43 PM »
Hi Peter,
When I saw your picture on the reciprocating piston engine I remembered an interesting trick to make your electromagnet stronger but still using the same current as before. I saw this trick in an old patent where a permanent magnet placed above an electromagnet is kicked up to a distance of 5/8" (1.58cm) when 300mA DC current is switched onto the em coil. Then another permanent magnet is placed UNDER the em coil and for the same 300mA current into the same coil the upper permanent magnet is kicked up as high as 1 1/2" (3.81cm). 
I do not know if you are aware of this addition of a permanent magnet flux to that of an electromagnet in such a setup you have in your picture so I thought I mention this to you. It costs only the price of an extra magnet in a particular design.
Regards
Gyula

Gyula
I used a permanent mag. under the coil and found an increase in RPM. However, the magnet polarity is reversed from the patent. It acts as an attracting magnet pulling the piston down. I thought you might find that interesting. I have posted on a new site http://www.eebeh.com/piston.html

Peter

Offline phil-uk

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Re: Magnet Motor Idea... need feedback
« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2006, 02:32:50 PM »
I'm a bit confused people, I totally understand the concept as I have experience building engines, etc but this would very inefficient. The losses involved in converting up and down motion into rotational motion is high (your rods and camshaft). A normal electric motor will be far more efficient which uses rotational motion only.

You can build something to work and have a play with but it wouldn't really be practical and certainly not OU, sorry guys!

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Magnet Motor Idea... need feedback
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2006, 02:45:59 PM »
Gyula
I used a permanent mag. under the coil and found an increase in RPM. However, the magnet polarity is reversed from the patent. It acts as an attracting magnet pulling the piston down. I thought you might find that interesting. I have posted on a new site http://www.eebeh.com/piston.html
Peter

Hi Peter,

You managed to make me curious and I have tested the setup shown in the patent Figures I had attached a few days ago.

Well, I can confirm the experiment in the patent, I found exactly the same behavior of the forces as it was indicated: when the electromagnet's upper pole is North and you place a rod magnet under the electromagnet with its North pole up (as indicated in the patent Figures)  the distance the upper magnet travels is about doubled,  
and when you place the rod magnet under the electromagnet with its South pole up (and this is just the opposite case to that of the patent's Figures) the distance the upper magnet travels is reduced to nearly its half value. I use the 'about' and 'nearly' words for describing the change of the distances because the weight of the upper magnet does count, nevertheless the phenomena is steady and repeatable.
I found  also that tinkering with the distance between the lower magnet and the electromagnet also counts in how far the upper magnet is able to move up.

So in case you really found as you wrote, it means the magnet you place under the electromagnet works against the flux of the electromagnet and helps when the upper magnet is coming down (coming towards the switched off electromagnet). Of course this operation is also a help for the piston's movement because there is a much bigger attraction force now between the electromagnet's core and the piston's magnet, which force there has not been as big without the lower magnet.

Probably in your practical setup the repel force with the poles polarity as is in the patent cannot manifest as effectively as the attract force due to the piston's mass/weigth + the gravity in the upwards direction. But then you could find this does manifest maybe in your horizontal setup?

Regards
Gyula

Offline tropes

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Re: Magnet Motor Idea... need feedback
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2006, 04:01:42 PM »


Hi Peter,

You managed to make me curious and I have tested the setup shown in the patent Figures I had attached a few days ago.

Well, I can confirm the experiment in the patent, I found exactly the same behavior of the forces as it was indicated: when the electromagnet's upper pole is North and you place a rod magnet under the electromagnet with its North pole up (as indicated in the patent Figures)  the distance the upper magnet travels is about doubled, 
and when you place the rod magnet under the electromagnet with its South pole up (and this is just the opposite case to that of the patent's Figures) the distance the upper magnet travels is reduced to nearly its half value. I use the 'about' and 'nearly' words for describing the change of the distances because the weight of the upper magnet does count, nevertheless the phenomena is steady and repeatable.
I found  also that tinkering with the distance between the lower magnet and the electromagnet also counts in how far the upper magnet is able to move up.

So in case you really found as you wrote, it means the magnet you place under the electromagnet works against the flux of the electromagnet and helps when the upper magnet is coming down (coming towards the switched off electromagnet). Of course this operation is also a help for the piston's movement because there is a much bigger attraction force now between the electromagnet's core and the piston's magnet, which force there has not been as big without the lower magnet.

Probably in your practical setup the repel force with the poles polarity as is in the patent cannot manifest as effectively as the attract force due to the piston's mass/weigth + the gravity in the upwards direction. But then you could find this does manifest maybe in your horizontal setup?

Regards
Gyula
Gyula
There is no dispute as to the effect of the magnet in the patent.
My discovery is that there is a greater advantage (both horisontal and vertical) to having the magnet poles reversed when the piston is reciprocating. If the piston moves only away from the coil then, obviously, the advantage is as in the patent figure.
Peter

Offline allcanadian

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Re: Magnet Motor Idea... need feedback
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2006, 05:13:13 PM »
There may be something to the reciprocating motion of permanent magnets, Wesley Gary (Gary motor/gen)was convinced that rotary machines were at a disadvantage because the attractive or repulsive force was always tangental to the poles, his patents were based on the fact that magnetic forces can be redirected and are much stronger when pole faces and magnetic forces face each other. The problem is always the same though- a shield of some sort redirecting the magnetic field and coming out ahead of the game.If you can do this the geometry is irrelevant, any configuration could work.

Offline tropes

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Re: Magnet Motor Idea... need feedback
« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2006, 05:56:31 PM »
I'm a bit confused people, I totally understand the concept as I have experience building engines, etc but this would very inefficient. The losses involved in converting up and down motion into rotational motion is high (your rods and camshaft). A normal electric motor will be far more efficient which uses rotational motion only.

You can build something to work and have a play with but it wouldn't really be practical and certainly not OU, sorry guys!

Don't be confused Phil. Keep an open mind. There may be something to be learned from a reciprocating magnet motor.
Peter