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Author Topic: 47000 Watt Magnetizer  (Read 13871 times)

Offline tinman

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47000 Watt Magnetizer
« on: November 23, 2015, 03:51:27 PM »
This is my attempt at building a magnetizer,so as i can make my own magnets.
It is needed for an up and coming project ,where as i have to magnetize an odd shape rotor-->a sample rotor is in the video. Most of you will know who's design the rotor is,and what machine it belongs to. But i will be going about the supplied magnetic field in a different way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3wxqERrSbM


Brad

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47000 Watt Magnetizer
« on: November 23, 2015, 03:51:27 PM »

Offline DreamThinkBuild

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Re: 47000 Watt Magnetizer
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2015, 11:10:27 PM »
Hi Tinman,

Interesting project, is your design going to divert the flux through a C core on either side?

I've tried a precessed magnet(45 degrees) but used individual stator coils. When aligned to the center of the coils it generates a really nice multi-phase AC output. This design still has cogging as the plane of the magnet crosses the stator cores but it was pretty fun to build and learn from.

Looking forward to your build.

Offline tinman

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Re: 47000 Watt Magnetizer
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2015, 10:19:59 AM »
Hi Tinman,

Interesting project, is your design going to divert the flux through a C core on either side?

I've tried a precessed magnet(45 degrees) but used individual stator coils. When aligned to the center of the coils it generates a really nice multi-phase AC output. This design still has cogging as the plane of the magnet crosses the stator cores but it was pretty fun to build and learn from.

Looking forward to your build.

Nice build DTB.
I wonder if the coging was due to the fact that your magnet was not shaped so as the outer perimeter was always level with the core of the coil's like mine will be?.

Also,did it load the prime mover down when current was drawn from the coils?.

Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 47000 Watt Magnetizer
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2015, 10:19:59 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: 47000 Watt Magnetizer
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2015, 12:53:48 PM »
If you are doing a variation on a Jim Murray "wobbling rotor flux redirector" and deciding that you will make the wobbling rotor into the magnet, then don't hold out much hope.

Ask yourself this:  Is there any difference between a wobbling rotating magnet and a regular rotating magnet as far as it goes from the point of view of some pick-up coils surrounding the rotor?

The answer is no.  The pick-up coils are "blind" and they could not care less if the changing flux came from a wobbling rotor, a nice spinning axially magnetized cylinder, or from a Aborigine witch doctor frantically waving magnets around in front of the coils.

Jim Murray is quackery, but I know that a lot of the fun for you is building stuff.  Just don't expect anything unusual on the power generation side of things.

I looked at your clip.  If you engaged those big batteries to energize the coil with a big relay and the relay got stuck you could have a risk of a thermonuclear meltdown if you did not have a secondary switch for an emergency shutoff.  If you have a big knife switch lying around it would be useful as an emergency shutoff.

What about capacitors?  Do you have any big capacitors of sufficient voltage?  If yes, then a few big industrial power diodes in parallel for the capacitor and some in parallel for shorting out the big BEMF current pulse from the coil itself and a big knife switch and you might have a viable capacitor-based magnetizer.  It sounds safer to me.

Offline tinman

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Re: 47000 Watt Magnetizer
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2015, 02:14:51 PM »
If you are doing a variation on a Jim Murray "wobbling rotor flux redirector" and deciding that you will make the wobbling rotor into the magnet, then don't hold out much hope.

Ask yourself this:  Is there any difference between a wobbling rotating magnet and a regular rotating magnet as far as it goes from the point of view of some pick-up coils surrounding the rotor?

The answer is no.  The pick-up coils are "blind" and they could not care less if the changing flux came from a wobbling rotor, a nice spinning axially magnetized cylinder, or from a Aborigine witch doctor frantically waving magnets around in front of the coils.

Jim Murray is quackery, but I know that a lot of the fun for you is building stuff.  Just don't expect anything unusual on the power generation side of things.

I looked at your clip.  If you engaged those big batteries to energize the coil with a big relay and the relay got stuck you could have a risk of a thermonuclear meltdown if you did not have a secondary switch for an emergency shutoff.  If you have a big knife switch lying around it would be useful as an emergency shutoff.



I see a very big difference MH,but i dont think you do,or maybe you dont understand as to how i am going to go about it,or how the magnetic field is orientated on the !!wobbling rotor!!. It will not be anything like a normal rotor,or the Aborigine witch doctors waving magnets.

Quote
I looked at your clip.  If you engaged those big batteries to energize the coil with a big relay and the relay got stuck you could have a risk of a thermonuclear meltdown if you did not have a secondary switch for an emergency shutoff.  If you have a big knife switch lying around it would be useful as an emergency shutoff.

Way ahead of you there MH--i have the knife gate ;)

Quote
What about capacitors?  Do you have any big capacitors of sufficient voltage?  If yes, then a few big industrial power diodes in parallel for the capacitor and some in parallel for shorting out the big BEMF current pulse from the coil itself and a big knife switch and you might have a viable capacitor-based magnetizer.  It sounds safer to me.

I dont have any capacitors large enough to do the job. What i do have is some very large diodes,and they will be used across the coils to form the current loop upon switch off. I will be fireing the relays by using series capacitors. This way,by adjusting the value of the capacitors,i can adjust the time the relay is on,and i will just put a high value bleed down resistor across the capacitors,so as we have an auto reset on the caps.

I posted a comment on Aarons video about Jim Murrys generator,but he removed it within 15 minutes lol. Some just dont like the truth. Below is a screen shot i took right after i posted it .

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 47000 Watt Magnetizer
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2015, 02:14:51 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: 47000 Watt Magnetizer
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2015, 02:29:16 PM »
Quote
I dont have any capacitors large enough to do the job. What i do have is some very large diodes,and they will be used across the coils to form the current loop upon switch off. I will be fireing the relays by using series capacitors. This way,by adjusting the value of the capacitors,i can adjust the time the relay is on,and i will just put a high value bleed down resistor across the capacitors,so as we have an auto reset on the caps.

Sounds great.  Don't wear a watch, you might get sucked in!

Quote
I posted a comment on Aarons video about Jim Murrys generator,but he removed it within 15 minutes lol. Some just dont like the truth. Below is a screen shot i took right after i posted it.

Thought control.  It's a giant false flag.  Those guys nuked the whales in the late 1970s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IUxK_0WLbg

Offline tinman

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Re: 47000 Watt Magnetizer
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2015, 03:14:47 PM »
 author=MileHigh link=topic=16209.msg466628#msg466628 date=1448366028];



Quote
Ask yourself this:  Is there any difference between a wobbling rotating magnet and a regular rotating magnet as far as it goes from the point of view of some pick-up coils surrounding the rotor?

Take a look at the diagram below MH,and see if you can understand as to the operation and the forces involved. Although the rotor magnet is spinning,the coils see only a magnetic field shifting from side to side of the core. As the odd shaped rotor magnet spins,the center of the magnet moves away from the center of the core,and one field of that magnet begins to build in that core as the other field moves away from the core. The counter force from the core pushes down on the rotating magnet,at right angles to its rotating direction. Also note the angle the magnet will be on as to that of the shaft carrying the magnet,and the downward counter force from the coil-the back torque.

Well this is the way i see it anyway,and the only way to find out is to build it. But first i have to get the magnetizer up and working-which i hope to have finished by this saterday. Then we start some test,and see if we can actually make a decent magnet with it. If not,i feel a big rail gun coming up :D

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Re: 47000 Watt Magnetizer
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2015, 03:14:47 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: 47000 Watt Magnetizer
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2015, 09:18:48 PM »
It sounds like you are trying to "cheat Mother Nature" and avoid any Lenz Law back-torque from the pick-up coils.  I don't see that happening.

I can see that you want to magnetize the rotor axially and it looks like the coils will see very limited changing flux like that.  I thought you were going to magnetize the rotor radially.

Offline tinman

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Re: 47000 Watt Magnetizer
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2015, 12:14:47 AM »
It sounds like you are trying to "cheat Mother Nature" and avoid any Lenz Law back-torque from the pick-up coils.  I don't see that happening.

I can see that you want to magnetize the rotor axially and it looks like the coils will see very limited changing flux like that.  I thought you were going to magnetize the rotor radially.

Yes,the magnet will be magentized axially(through the thickness)
Why do you think the coil will see a very limited changing flux?
At 0*,the field in the core will be neutral.
At 90*,the field in the core will carry only one pole.
At 180* the field will once again be neutral.
At 270*,the field will carry the other pole.

Anyway,like i said-only one way to find out.


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 47000 Watt Magnetizer
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2015, 12:14:47 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: 47000 Watt Magnetizer
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2015, 10:23:52 AM »
Yes,the magnet will be magentized axially(through the thickness)
Why do you think the coil will see a very limited changing flux?

Brad

Well, axially magnetized means relative to your diagrams the main flux through the thickness of the rotor will be horizontal.  Likewise, the return flux above and below the rotor will be horizontal.  Obviously this is a big simplification.  That means that the horizontal flux lines will be cutting across your pickup coils at about 90 degrees - the pickup coils are on a vertical axis in your diagram.  If you have changing flux that is purely horizontal and the pickup coils are vertical then the coils will pickup nothing.  Therefore your pickup coils will pick up relatively little changing flux and thus generate relatively little EMF and have a limited available output power.

Offline tinman

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Re: 47000 Watt Magnetizer
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2015, 02:45:56 PM »
Well, axially magnetized means relative to your diagrams the main flux through the thickness of the rotor will be horizontal.  Likewise, the return flux above and below the rotor will be horizontal.  Obviously this is a big simplification.  That means that the horizontal flux lines will be cutting across your pickup coils at about 90 degrees - the pickup coils are on a vertical axis in your diagram.  If you have changing flux that is purely horizontal and the pickup coils are vertical then the coils will pickup nothing.  Therefore your pickup coils will pick up relatively little changing flux and thus generate relatively little EMF and have a limited available output power.

I see no reason why the pickup coils will not see a changing magnetic flux,and a good one at that.
In fact,i will put together a quick demo tomorrow night,and we will see if sliding a magnet across an inductors core(with an air gap of course)back and forth produces a good EMF in that inductor.
I have not tried it yet,but my guess is that the core will carry the field that is under it just as good as it would with a magnet passing by it-as in a normal generator setup.

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Re: 47000 Watt Magnetizer
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2015, 02:45:56 PM »
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Offline picowatt

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Re: 47000 Watt Magnetizer
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2015, 08:18:48 PM »
I see no reason why the pickup coils will not see a changing magnetic flux,and a good one at that.
In fact,i will put together a quick demo tomorrow night,and we will see if sliding a magnet across an inductors core(with an air gap of course)back and forth produces a good EMF in that inductor.
I have not tried it yet,but my guess is that the core will carry the field that is under it just as good as it would with a magnet passing by it-as in a normal generator setup.

Tinman,

Have you considered machining a pair of elliptical pole pieces angle mounted to your shaft with a neo ring magnet positioned between those pole pieces in lieu of making and magnetizing a custom shaped magnet?.

As for your "47000 watt magnetizer", it all sounds a bit scary.  Welded contacts and melted aluminum aside, you must also ensure that the current thru the magnetizing coil and lead wires does not "ring down".  Polarity reversals during a ring down can partially demagnetize the previously achieved peak magnetization levels.

If you are bound and determined, consider charging a bank of capacitors via a current limiting resistor and then dumping that cap bank across your coil.  Even a few hundred milliseconds of activation is way more time than needed to flip domains.   

PW   

Offline MileHigh

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Re: 47000 Watt Magnetizer
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2015, 08:37:39 PM »
I see no reason why the pickup coils will not see a changing magnetic flux,and a good one at that.

Really?  Look at my chicken scratchings.  What do you think about my marked up drawing?

Offline DreamThinkBuild

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Re: 47000 Watt Magnetizer
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2015, 11:22:11 PM »
Hi Tinman,

Quote
I wonder if the coging was due to the fact that your magnet was not shaped so as the outer perimeter was always level with the core of the coil's like mine will be?.

Yes, the design crossed the plane so that the magnets pole was angled toward the stator. This also introduced Lenz when loaded, it was not efficient.

Your design stays within the edge boundary of the magnet which would be interesting to see the difference.

Offline citfta

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Re: 47000 Watt Magnetizer
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2015, 11:23:53 PM »
Hi Brad,

Some good news to support your idea for a wobble magnet generator.  I built a very crude version just to test the concept.  This is just a single ceramic ring magnet with north on one side and south on the other.   As you can see in the picture I am just swiping the magnet back and forth across the core of the coil.  Without the coil at all on the test stand the motor was drawing 1.8 amps after giving it some time to warm up the bearings and get loosened up a bit.  When I added the coil without any load the current only went up about .01 amps so the side to side motion of the magnet appears to be giving very little cogging effect.   The open voltage on the coil was only 6 volts but of course there is only one magnet and it was only turning about 1320 rpm according to the frequency as calculated by my scope.  When I loaded the coil with a 30 ohm load the current did not change going to the drive motor.  My voltage did drop to about 2.4 volts but I expected a pretty good drop because of the speed of the rotor and the fact I am only using a single ceramic magnet to excite the coil.  When I shorted the coil the current to the motor only went up .01 amps.  I expect this may be because of the slow speed of the rotor.  I have heard many times the higher speed on the rotor helps to overcome the lentz effect.  I am very interested to see how your larger build with good magnets will perform.  I would like to pursue that idea myself if I can get all the parts together to see what it will do.

Take care and keep up the good work and ideas.
Carroll

 

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