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Author Topic: Inductive Kickback  (Read 157828 times)

synchro1

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #300 on: March 05, 2018, 03:14:24 AM »
@Magluvin,

Congratulations on the definitive and complete obliteration of the false Milehigh position that there's no difference between the bifilar and single wire coil. Excellent video. I urged Tinselkoala repeatedly to test the two coils with pulse power for years, and the only tests he ever performed were tests with constant current, both D.C. and A.C. to arrive at the erroneous conclusion that Tesla was just a dummy.

TinselKoala

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #301 on: March 05, 2018, 04:01:05 AM »
Liar.

tinman

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #302 on: March 05, 2018, 07:53:56 AM »
Current reading of inductive kickback on the "Reed Switch Spinner": The kickback voltage measures 6 volts. Naturally the input is 12. The BEMF output measures around 50 milli watts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT2VcWNIKA0

Well syncro,your video just proved i was right,and you are wrong.Inductive kickback is a direct current (DC),and what i said was that the generating effect of the spinning magnet is what was sending current back to the source,as the spinning magnet would produce a alternating current(AC) across the coil.

You just showed a video,where you were measuring alternating current,and trying to pass it of as the inductive kickback current, lol--whats the chances of that.


Enjoy.


synchro1

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #303 on: March 05, 2018, 12:48:54 PM »
Well syncro,your video just proved i was right,and you are wrong.Inductive kickback is a direct current (DC),and what i said was that the generating effect of the spinning magnet is what was sending current back to the source,as the spinning magnet would produce a alternating current(AC) across the coil.

You just showed a video,where you were measuring alternating current,and trying to pass it of as the inductive kickback current, lol--whats the chances of that.


Enjoy.

@Tinman,

The inductive kickback measures around the same on the D.C. scale. I just measured the input current, and I'm processing a video of that right now. I'll upload it soon. The input current is around 200 mA  D.C. at 12 volts. This gives us an input power of around 2.4 watts and an inductive backspike of 50 milli watts. That's right around a 20% recovery figure. I 've measured this COP in the past with my Bedini circuits and the ratio is the same, so I certain my figures are correct.

The good news is that the Inductive kickback directed to the ferrite core series bifilar coil through my 70uF 25 volt capacitor with no diode (The diode kills the effect) is generating a very powerful oscillation in the overhead ferrite magnet elastic band piston. The problem is, that it's at the same frequency as the R.P.M. of the spinner which measures around 3300 R.P.M. with my frequency meter. This oscillation frequency is too great for my commutator to keep up with; However, this amounts to real progress in my opinion. We have Magluvin to thank for this ingenious path of discovery.

tinman

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #304 on: March 05, 2018, 01:34:43 PM »
@Tinman,

 I just measured the input current, and I'm processing a video of that right now. I'll upload it soon. The input current is around 200 mA  D.C. at 12 volts. This gives us an input power of around 2.4 watts and an inductive backspike of 50 milli watts. That's right around a 20% recovery figure. I 've measured this COP in the past with my Bedini circuits and the ratio is the same, so I certain my figures are correct.

The good news is that the Inductive kickback directed to the ferrite core series bifilar coil through my 70uF 25 volt capacitor with no diode (The diode kills the effect) is generating a very powerful oscillation in the overhead ferrite magnet elastic band piston. The problem is, that it's at the same frequency as the R.P.M. of the spinner which measures around 3300 R.P.M. with my frequency meter. This oscillation frequency is too great for my commutator to keep up with; However, this amounts to real progress in my opinion.

Quote
The inductive kickback measures around the same on the D.C. scale.

So,your meter reads the same amount of current on both the DC and AC setting--thats great :D

We have Magluvin to thank for this ingenious path of discovery.

Fantastic
You should both be up for your nobel prize any time soon.

synchro1

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #305 on: March 05, 2018, 01:40:55 PM »
So,your meter reads the same amount of current on both the DC and AC setting--thats great :D

We have Magluvin to thank for this ingenious path of discovery.

Fantastic
You should both be up for your nobel prize any time soon.

@Tinman,

The inductive kickback is a "Low ripple A.C. or weak pulsed D.C." all depends how you look at it. You know what it's scope signature looks like. How's your flat tire repair business doing?


Here's a video of a D.C. input measured on the A.C. scale. I have another one that measures the same input on the D.C. scale that reads the same. The very powerful Neo sphere strongly influences the measurements.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMA1X-sjlz4

tinman

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #306 on: March 05, 2018, 02:22:56 PM »
@Tinman,

The inductive kickback is a "Low ripple A.C. or weak pulsed D.C." all depends how you look at it. You know what it's scope signature looks like. How's your flat tire repair business doing?


Here's a video of a D.C. input measured on the A.C. scale. I have another one that measures the same input on the D.C. scale that reads the same. The very powerful Neo sphere strongly influences the measurements.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMA1X-sjlz4

Syncro

There is no point in going any further in trying to explain what is going on with your DUT,as you have your mind made up.

synchro1

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #307 on: March 05, 2018, 02:31:40 PM »
Syncro

There is no point in going any further in trying to explain what is going on with your DUT,as you have your mind made up.


@Tinman,

Here's a video of the input current measured on the D.C. scale:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkWTy_PyDaY

The value's fluctuating due to the erratic nature of the spinner, so it requires a "Round Off". The round number is the same with A.C. or D.C.! You see the OL on the 200mA setting, so I'm calling it 200.

We're dealing with roughly 20% kickback return on input power with this setup.

Magluvin

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #308 on: March 05, 2018, 02:50:47 PM »
There is probably a fairly 'good' reason there is the word 'Kick' in Inductive Kickback, otherwise it might be called inductive flowback, or just simply pushback. Kick has impact. A kick would not be something I would expect from an ac signal. There is nothing out there on that other than here in this thread for some 'odd' reason.

But, if sync is getting ac and has a bifi coil taking on an inductive kickback from the pulse motor, then that kick will get the bifi oscillating. Just like in my scope shots. Once that kick current charges the bifi capacitance, then that is the end of the kick and it is dissipated, leaving the bifi to oscillate.  I did some other things that I have found to be pretty unique also. The bifi will go into oscilation with only 1 wire from the kicker coils output through the diode. And not just a little weak oscillation as one might expect in comparison to 2 wire connection loop. That was fairly loose coupling I had between the test coils and the pickup coil. So now is time to make a transformer with a bifi primary and drive that primary with the inductive kickback of another coil and see if things look promising.  And a couple other weird things that I will get a better grip on and then show here.

Using the inductive kickback as a test of the single wire coil and the bifi was a very straight forward way of showing this effect as it either blocks the spike or takes it on. There is no way to dispute it. Its proven. Like Sync said, this one thing about bifi coils is part of a long ongoing argument between MH(not just him either) and me. There are differences between the 2 types of coils that are more than just a difference in resonant freq between the 2. So from here we move forward and see what we can do with this facet of the bifi coils.  One thing Im thinking now, going for the most capacitance with your bifi may not always be the best bet.  If we had a bifi made of thicker wire and less capacitance, the kickback spike could charge that lower capacitance to a much higher voltage. Trying some things on that. Will see..

What I am finding is that the bifilar does not impede the input 'like' a single wire coil does. If you have a circuit that uses a choke coil to suppress pulses to keep them from other parts of the circuit, and then you replaced that choke coil with a bifilar coil of the same wire, turns, etc, then I believe that it will no longer choke those problematic pulses, spikes, etc.  So far it does things as tesla says.

Whether I choose to say disconnect the input, as I am doing in the circuit I had shown, none the less it is an interruption of the input to the kicker coil. If we wanted to stop a water source from a house, we could just shut the valve, without completely disconnecting the pipe from the house. In both cases we have interrupted the water from getting to the house. Show me just 1 article on the net that uses the words inductive kickback in a circuit that has an AC input to a circuit of a transformer, light bulb and a resistor.  There are none.  Just like there are none in that scope shot.

Mags

Magluvin

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #309 on: March 05, 2018, 02:53:29 PM »
So,your meter reads the same amount of current on both the DC and AC setting--thats great :D

We have Magluvin to thank for this ingenious path of discovery.

Fantastic
You should both be up for your nobel prize any time soon.

Sure as hell wont be you. ;)

Mags

synchro1

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #310 on: March 05, 2018, 03:32:03 PM »
My serial bifilar setup is accepting kickback and the magnetic oscillation is powering an overhead magnet piston GAP appendage that together act as a current amplifier. I tried measuring overall output, but my input current mesurements killed my Reed switch, so I'm out of business for the time being.

tinman

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #311 on: March 05, 2018, 03:40:50 PM »
Sure as hell wont be you. ;)

Mags

Quote
Show me just 1 article on the net that uses the words inductive kickback in a circuit that has an AC input to a circuit of a transformer, light bulb and a resistor.  There are none.  Just like there are none in that scope shot.

As this forum is on the net,and my AC circuit showing inductive spikes is on this forum,then you have been shown 1 article on the net showing inductive spikes in an AC circuit.
Once again,see scope shot below,which is full of inductive spikes.

I see you are also avoiding the original circuit i posted,as that shows a spike being sent to a bifi coil.
Inductive kickback is a term,where as inductive spike is a description.

Quote
Using the inductive kickback as a test of the single wire coil and the bifi was a very straight forward way of showing this effect as it either blocks the spike or takes it on. There is no way to dispute it. Its proven.


That video was no proof of anything.

Once again i ask--what is the difference between a bifi coil,and a single wound coil with added capacitance across it?
How much energy was sent to each coil?
How much energy was wasted as heat in each coil?
What was the load on the pickup coil?--none as far as i could see.

So Mags,your video proves nothing at all--maybe the next one will be more informative.

synchro1

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #312 on: March 05, 2018, 04:04:13 PM »
I plan to generate inductive kickback with my battery core mechanical contact oscillator, then channel it into the serial bifilar and tiny capacitor to try and oscillate my GAP appendage that way. I hope to measure gain in a storage capacitor through a diode that way.

Tinman has to be right about Igor's "Reed Switch Spinner". Power from the magnet has to account for the near unity COP. There's no way the inductive kickback alone could supply that much power back to the source battery.

Magluvin

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #313 on: March 05, 2018, 08:07:27 PM »
As this forum is on the net,and my AC circuit showing inductive spikes is on this forum,then you have been shown 1 article on the net showing inductive spikes in an AC circuit.
Once again,see scope shot below,which is full of inductive spikes.

I see you are also avoiding the original circuit i posted,as that shows a spike being sent to a bifi coil.
Inductive kickback is a term,where as inductive spike is a description.
 

That video was no proof of anything.

Once again i ask--what is the difference between a bifi coil,and a single wound coil with added capacitance across it?
How much energy was sent to each coil?
How much energy was wasted as heat in each coil?
What was the load on the pickup coil?--none as far as i could see.

So Mags,your video proves nothing at all--maybe the next one will be more informative.

"As this forum is on the net,and my AC circuit showing inductive spikes is on this forum,then you have been shown 1 article on the net showing inductive spikes in an AC circuit.
Once again,see scope shot below,which is full of inductive spikes.

I see you are also avoiding the original circuit i posted,as that shows a spike being sent to a bifi coil.
Inductive kickback is a term,where as inductive spike is a description."


I see. Lol.  So you here in this thread on the net are the only one.  Like that counts.   ::) ::) ::) ROTF

Avoiding the first circuit? I see no scope shot for that circuit. No vid, no nothing. Led lights up? Sweet and Yay. Good job. Hmm, no measurements? Well then you have shown nothing, as your basis for 'proving something' shows you are showing nothing there pretty much.  Yet when I see the scope shot that is in reference to your AC input circuit, you keep jumping me back to the first pulsed circuit, as if that is the circuit that the scope shot you have shown is from that circuit.   ??? ??? ??? ::) Dude its just getting weird man. Weird indeed.



"That video was no proof of anything."

Well then you got nothing from it. Some do, some dont. Thats what happens with age. Its happens to some. They may have a pill for that. ;)   What it does show is something that you never knew of, and something other than you have ever shown. If you dont get that this is something that Tesla tells us in the patent that this coil can do compared to an single wire coil of the same wire, same total wire length , coil width, inner outer dia, then I guess thats your problem. That was the whole point of the vid was to show this one major difference between the 2 test coils that nobody here has shown yet. There will be more vids showing more of the details of what we can do with this.

Soo what? Do you think I am faking what I have claimed and have shown? Heck, your scope shot is so crammed together, how could we tell if those are inductive kickback spikes or just a mix of freq that the circuit provides from the ac input?  Yet you say its there, hiding in the thickness of it all. Cool. Oh, sweet 21.3mv rms and 46mv rms.  That must be your proof of something going on there.  Your the winner!   Sit back and have a beer! Your proof of something, what ever that is, has more merit than what I have shown!  lol Whatever dude. Make yourself a trophy and sit on it.




"Once again i ask--what is the difference between a bifi coil,and a single wound coil with added capacitance across it?
How much energy was sent to each coil?
How much energy was wasted as heat in each coil?
What was the load on the pickup coil?--none as far as i could see."


Where is yours??? Hypocrite are you?   ::)    If you cannot understand that for this first vid it was just to visually show an effect that hasnt been shown here before, then I say its just you being troll.  That vid demonstrates what tesla claimed with the bifilar coils.  This is just you here 'trying' to one up me with your circuit and a scope shot that you have not even explained yet, just a distraction, and you have to come back after the first circuit and ask why hasnt anyone talked about your circuit yet. lol   Thats funny.  I suppose you are not getting the attn you wanted.  Well I guess you need to do a bit better than what you have so far and maybe you wont have to come back and ask again, to make sure people are paying attn to you and your exciting circuit. ;) You have the good luck with those tactics to get people interested.....




"So Mags,your video proves nothing at all--maybe the next one will be more informative."

Well then it is your loss.  And your showing of your circuits and scope shot 'prove' and show even less! If you cannot see that the single wire coil rejected the kicking coil spike as a normal coil should, and the bifilar coil accepted the spike and created a much better magnetic field output to the pickup coil than the single wire coil, then I guess you just cant.  Cool beans. I will continue on with it and you go and continue on with your, whatever it is your trying to show. 

You open a thread on your circuit and Ill open a thread on my idea and lets see whose thread gets more interest. I mean you are all 'Here, Here, look at my circuit and look at my scope shot!!'  Well then open a thread and do the do.  You stay in your thread and Ill stay in mine.  If you want to comment on me in your thread or anywhere else on thins forum, fine, just stay on your side of the fence and Ill stay on mine.


This all started with you sayin you thought I was on the right track and me asking you what that meant exactly. And here we are. You cant post a thing without poking me with nearly every post. Meanwhile you have shown didly, according to your terms of what proves something or not. I have explained everything that I intended to show 'so far' with what I have presented. You show 3 pics and zero explanation, no load or input measurements, etc. and I suppose we are just all suppose to guess at what you are getting at and expect commentary and praise..  Well so far Im at a total loss along with many others with your circuit as you have explained nothing...  I see Erfinder seems to know what your circuit may be doing and I bet he knows more about it than you. ;)   Id bet on that.  He and I have talked for some time and he IS above you(including me and others here) in nearly all this stuff ;D Maybe he can shed some light on it, being you dont.   He has opened my mind up to certain things that has helped me figure out a thing or two about a thing or two.  :-X ;D And I had thanked him for just about every conversation we had. ;)



Mags




synchro1

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #314 on: March 05, 2018, 09:06:57 PM »
@Tinman,

Here's a quote from Tesla's patent: It states that the capacitive energy stored in the serial bifilar coil is 250,000 times greater then a single wire coil of the same inductance. I fail to see how adding a capacitor to a single wire coil can achieve this kind of result.

"Consider a single wire pancake coil with 1000 turns and 100 volts applied. There will be 0.1 volt difference between each consecutive layer in the coil. The capacitance of the coil will be mainly determined by the geometry (plate spacing) between each consecutive coil layer and is constant for a given coil. The capacitive energy stored in such a coil will be ~ E1 = 1/2 C V^2, or 1/2 C (0.1 ^2). On the other hand if you wind a similar bifilar pancake coil with 1000 turns (same total length of wire) and again apply 100 volts then the midpoint solder connection will be at 50 volts. Now the voltage difference between each consecutive layer in the coil has been increased from 0.1 volt to 50 volts. The capacitance of the coil determined by the geometry hasn’t changed; However, the capacitive energy stored in such a bifilar wound coil will be ~ E2 = 1/2 C V^2, or 1/2 C (50 ^2). Or 250,000 times greater than the single wire wound coil of the same inductance".