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Mechanical free energy devices => Reactive Power usage => Topic started by: minoly on November 19, 2015, 09:38:30 PM

Title: The Spike
Post by: minoly on November 19, 2015, 09:38:30 PM
“The critical thing is the spike, it's been the spike all along, the exact replica basically of a nerve impulse.” – who said this…

1.    How can we create it…
https://youtu.be/KKUbVAMFZqw (https://youtu.be/KKUbVAMFZqw)
There are many methods to create it I’m hoping to get the basic basics please share 1 or 2 of the best methods you use or have heard of.

2.     How can we harvest the spike..
I don’t have a quick video reference for this but I basically want to talk about methods to get it from the inductor to a “storage” device which “later” allows us to use it in some way. The above video for example uses a single diode and a full wave bridge rectifier to get it to a CAP.

3.   What can we do with it…

NilreHob gives us some math. Look in description for the pdf’s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZcvOWSXcbU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZcvOWSXcbU)
Woopy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tag5OlvPi54 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tag5OlvPi54)
me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tFTyYsB1QY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tFTyYsB1QY)
there are many things people have done over the years. Lights batteries drive motors, on and on. First I want to get into creating it.
 
I see here on this forum topics can get off hand quickly and into a different universe entirely. Let's hope this one can stay on topic and yet allow for ideas to thrive at the same time. No gestapo here...
 
I will continue to post as the subject remains close to topic and as I have time.
Title: Attempt to remove of Human Error
Post by: minoly on November 20, 2015, 11:13:57 PM
Here I attempt to remove as much human error as I care to at this point.
I keep saying the energy rushes into the cap when I mean to say coil...
https://youtu.be/822yyCWyYXw


Notice the wave form, notice that it captures the inrush of energy as well as the discharge. My cap does not have enough joules to fill that coil does it...
The battery does however and allows us to see more of how a coil takes in and discharges.
cheers

Title: The Spike melts tungsten
Post by: minoly on November 21, 2015, 05:04:46 AM
Laurent creates the spike using a "universal motor" and melts tungsten!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAx7Y0UIyHA
Nice work!
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on November 23, 2015, 07:08:37 AM
Minoly,

I assume that you have been following the discussions on the other threads.  By now you should know that the spike is simply the coil discharging its stored energy in the form of a pulse of current into a load.  If the load is zero ohms, then the pulse of current manifests no voltage spike at all.  If the load is 10,000 ohms, then you can expect to see a short high-voltage spike.

How does that apply to the charging of a battery in a JB pulse motor?

One thing that is never discussed is how many amps of current can the battery reasonably be expected to sustain when you are pulse charging it?  Imagine a small battery.  If the initial pulse of current is 50 amps, that might floor the battery with way too much current.  Then the battery will simply act like a big fat resistor and one can assume that most of the spike energy will be lost as heat instead of actually recharging the battery.  It might even ruin the battery.  On the other hand, if the initial pulse of current is 20 miliamps, the battery may barely be charged by that feeble pulse and it will take days to noticeably charge the battery.  Who knows, perhaps the battery has a minimum current threshold to get charging going in the battery chemistry, and 20 milliamp current pulses will just be lost and mainly heat the battery also.

What this implies, is that for different physical battery sizes, and for different battery chemistries, there is some kind of "sweet spot range" for optimum battery charging with current pulses.  That "sweet spot range" may also be a function of the ongoing state of charge of the battery through time also.

Here is one thing that is absolutely certain:  No current pulse going into a battery, no matter how optimized it is, will be 100% efficient in charging the battery.  There will always be some waste heat generated for each pulse of current going into the battery.

Here is another thing that is absolutely certain:  If the battery is 100% charged, then all pulses of current going into the battery will become 100% waste heat.

Here is another thing that is presumably a certainty:  Every battery will have a pulse current charging threshold where above that current threshold you are more like frying the battery as opposed to charging the battery.  Frying the battery means that the majority of the energy in the current pulse becomes waste heat.  Presumably, there is a good chance that the battery will become damaged by excessively large currents in the current pulses.

Therefore, if you want to design a good pulsing battery charger, you need to have a handle on what current pulse the battery "likes" and then you have to tune your current pulse characteristics and associated pulse frequency to make everything amenable to charging the battery as efficiently as possible.  Presumably you also have to know when to stop charging so you don't whack your battery needlessly with current pulses that go nowhere and just become waste heat.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on November 23, 2015, 07:43:25 AM
So how do we characterize the current pulse coming from the drive coil that goes into the charging battery?

It's has an initial current value that can easily be measured with a scope and a one-ohm CVR.

It has a fixed amount of energy in it that is proportional to the initial amount of current in the pulse.  E = 1/2 L i-squared.

It will have a discharge curve that decreases down to zero that is a function of the load.  The voltage that you see manifesting from the current pulse is a function of the load.

In summary, when you are pulse charging a battery the two main properties of the current pulse are the initial number of amperes in the current pulse, and the total amount of energy in the pulse.

The total amount of energy in the pulse is a function of the size and number of turns in the drive coil.  If you are going to pulse charge a battery you should measure the amount of energy in the pulse.  The more energy in the pulse, the longer the discharge curve will take to decrease to zero.

What is the current discharging curve like when it goes into a target battery?  Just take a look at the waveform across the one-ohm CVR for yourself and find out.  It will look somewhat similar to the exponential discharge curve that you see when a coil discharges across a fixed resistor.

How come you see almost no voltage spike when the current pulse goes into a charging battery that is in good condition?  If the current level is one amp and the battery is 12.6 volts, then R = V/I so the battery looks like a 12.6-ohm resistor.  However, the differential resistance of the battery is very low, say mlilliohms, so you only will see a small bump in the battery voltage above 12.6 volts.  It's the battery that is determining the voltage output by the coil.

So we know that you see a big voltage spike when the battery is old and dead and sulfated.  In this case the battery is acting like a high-value resistor, so it's natural that the coil will manifest a high voltage.  Note that the coil will force its current into any load, no matter what.  It's like a charging bull of current, and if it has to turn the air into conductive plasma in order to discharge it will.  It's just the way it works.  That's why inductive current pulse charging can rejuvenate a dead battery when applying a voltage source to the battery won't recharge it.  The voltage source will not force energy into the dead battery but a discharging inductor will literally force its energy into the dead battery.

So that's the deal.  If you take your favourite JB pulse motor you should hook it up to a charging battery and put a one-ohm CVR in line with the charging battery and scope the CVR.  All of the information about the battery charging characteristics will be in the CVR waveform.  Whatever pulsing you see in the charging battery voltage is secondary, more of a sideshow.

The other thing you want to do is measure the average charging power that goes into the charging battery.  That gives you a handle on how much energy you may be putting into the charging battery.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: minoly on November 23, 2015, 09:13:13 PM
A little more fumbling around in the dark so to say… trying to find that balance between machine and human error that will allow me to enhance the spike without conflating too many variables…
https://youtu.be/ymv4SFsTqmI
So was the one wire move helpful or does it harm the harvest...
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on December 18, 2015, 02:40:05 AM
Patrick:

I read your equivalent thread on EF:  http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20335-radiant-spike-puts-out-more-than-current.html (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20335-radiant-spike-puts-out-more-than-current.html)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41cfHcb7qd8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41cfHcb7qd8)

Your description for this clip is,  "This is the pure currentless radiant spike being used to do work."

But of course the reality is that a discharging inductor outputs a pulse of current.  I know you find it hard to accept this and probably look at me like I am some sort of "disinformation agent" but nothing could be further from the truth.

For a capacitor, it outputs voltage with variable current.
For an inductor, it outputs current with variable voltage.

Do you see the symmetry?   One stores energy in an electric field, the other stores energy in a magnetic field.

A very good analogy for an inductor is a spinning flywheel where the rotational speed is analogous to the current, the torque is analogous to the voltage, and the size of the flywheel is analogous to the inductance.   You can take that analogy and drop it into any circuit that you have ever built and it will work perfectly.

I know it's hard to initially wrap your head around this stuff the first go round, "A discharging inductor acts like a current source" or "A discharging inductor is like putting the brakes on a spinning flywheel."  If you want to have more understanding of what you are doing you have to try to wrap your head around it.

Let's use the water analogy for a second for electricity where the water pressure is like the voltage and the water flow is like the current.   This is a perfectly good analogy.  What's a capacitor in this analogy?  The answer is it's a big cylindrical tank with an open top with a water inlet in one side and a water outlet on the other side.  The voltage corresponds to the height of the water in the tank.  What's an inductor in this analogy?  The answer is that it's just a big coil of hose.  You might have 500 pounds worth of water circulating in the big coil of hose and that can pack some serious momentum - so much momentum that it will be nearly impossible to stop the water flow.

What is a current source using the water analogy?

To answer, let's start off with the voltage source analogy.

The voltage source would be a water pump that has a spinning impeller.  So an electric motor is connected to spinning turbine that increases the water pressure.  Say the water pump will increase the water pressure by 20 PSI for its nominal flow rate.  What happens if you block the hose?   The answer is not much, the impeller keeps spinning and the water pressure increases by perhaps 25 PSI because it is blocked but there is no water flow.

So, let's go back to the water analogy for a current source.

Imagine a big diesel engine, like from a big truck.  The engine output goes through a series of reduction gears and the output shaft turns very slowly, say one revolution per second.   That shaft drives a piston-style pump, like a car engine.  One piston draws water in by the inlet, and another piston pumps the water out the outlet.  This piston-style pump is [/font][/size]rated in gallons per minute.  You notice it is not rated in pressure, it is rated in a certain flow rate.  That's the "big secret."

So what happens when you block the water flow of the constant-flow-rate piston pump driven by a big diesel engine?  The answer is that the big diesel engine doesn't even hiccup, and the pistons keep pumping and maintain the water flow rate.  In short order the water pressure in the hose skyrockets and the hose bursts.

And that is what a discharging inductor does.  It pumps current, not voltage.  It will pump current into any battery, no matter how sulfated it is.  If it's discharging and you open-circuit it, just like the constant-flow-rate diesel engine piston pump will raise the pressure so high it will burst the hose, the inductor will raise the voltage so high it will turn the air into plasma to ensure the current flow.

So, that's the message that should be crossing the divide into your thread on EF.  The "spike" is unstoppable current flow with a certain amount of available energy to expend to maintain that current flow.  It is not "pure voltage with almost no current" - It is an unstoppable current flow where the voltage depends on the nature of the load.

If the load is a short circuit then the spike voltage is zero.

Anyway, that is the "forbidden knowledge" that you almost seem to be afraid of.  If you work and try to learn it and understand it then all of a sudden all of your experiments with coils will become much clearer and more understandable.  There is a lot of pseudoscience junk talk taking place on your thread.  It's up to you if you want to "pollinate" your mind and the minds of your peers in order to truly understand what you are doing.  I know it's difficult to grasp, but if you and your peers on EF work hard and do manage to grasp it then you will all be that much better off.

MileHigh
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on December 18, 2015, 03:19:35 AM
Just a little follow-up posting.

This was plucked from your thread:

Quote
When polarizing a battery with impulses of nearly pure potential and virtually no current, the battery develops its own internal charging current that did not come from the impulses... and it is not a tradeoff between voltage and current. That battery gets polarized with a high potential difference between its terminals and that polarizes the vacuum source potential around it to come into the battery and causes not only the battery to go into charging mode, but to actually give it a strong charge that is not just a voltage increase, but a load powering capacity increase.

As you can see, the quote above is a no-no.  My posts #3,4 and 6 give you the real deal on all of this battery charging stuff.  You configure your motor-based charging system (or you make measurements to see what you have) for the initial current flow and for the total amount of energy in the coil discharge.  The nature of the charging battery will determine what the observable voltage is during the coil discharge cycle and the length of the coil discharge cycle.

A highly sulfated battery will result in shorter higher-voltage current pulses going into the battery and a new battery in good condition will result in longer lower-voltage current pulses going into the battery.

As I previously stated, if you really want to know what your pulse-motor-based battery charger is doing you must put a current viewing resistor in series with the output of the coil so you can observe the initial current flow and the way the current flow decays over time.  This is more important than looking at the voltage bump on the charging battery when the coil discharges.

The real thing.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: minoly on December 18, 2015, 04:20:59 AM
“my” thread?  Your statement is intellectually misleading and therefore dishonest.
Not very becoming… 
 
 
Anyone reading this (I see there are one or two) take note – this proposal will kill spiky, which is exactly why it is being proposed.
 
Also, this has nothing to do with the topic in this thread, I had hoped to get into different methods to create the spike, including ways to create the biggest spike for the least amount of current, and then discuss methods to “store” it, and finally ways to use it.
With no one interested in posting, we can let this thread die out.
Bye


Just a little follow-up posting.

This was plucked from your thread:


"When polarizing a battery with [/size]impulses of nearly pure potential and virtually no current[/size], the battery develops its own internal charging current that did not come from the impulses... and it is not a tradeoff between voltage and current. That battery gets polarized with a high potential difference between its terminals and that polarizes the vacuum source potential around it to come into the battery and causes not only the battery to go into charging mode, but to actually give it a strong charge that is not just a voltage increase, but a load powering capacity increase.[/size]

As you can see, the quote above is a no-no.  My posts #3,4 and 6 give you the real deal on all of this battery charging stuff.  You configure your motor-based charging system (or you make measurements to see what you have) for the initial current flow and for the total amount of energy in the coil discharge.  The nature of the charging battery will determine what the observable voltage is during the coil discharge cycle and the length of the coil discharge cycle.

A highly sulfated battery will result in shorter higher-voltage current pulses going into the battery and a new battery in good condition will result in longer lower-voltage current pulses going into the battery.

As I previously stated, if you really want to know what your pulse-motor-based battery charger is doing you must put a current viewing resistor in series with the output of the coil so you can observe the initial current flow and the way the current flow decays over time.  This is more important than looking at the voltage bump on the charging battery when the coil discharges.

The real thing.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on December 18, 2015, 07:03:34 AM
“my” thread?  Your statement is intellectually misleading and therefore dishonest.
Not very becoming… 
 
 
Anyone reading this (I see there are one or two) take note – this proposal will kill spiky, which is exactly why it is being proposed.
 
Also, this has nothing to do with the topic in this thread, I had hoped to get into different methods to create the spike, including ways to create the biggest spike for the least amount of current, and then discuss methods to “store” it, and finally ways to use it.
With no one interested in posting, we can let this thread die out.
Bye

Yes it is from your thread that you started on EF.  "Plucked" is a very informal term so to be more precise I got text that was actually from a quote in a posting.  It's a quote from Aaron.

What you need to understand is what is much more important.  That thing you need to understand is that the statement from Aaron is pure BS.  You now know what the spike really is.  There are no "alternative viewpoints," that's just hiding from the truth.  The spike is what it is, facts are facts.  The spike is a discharge of current from an energized coil in the from of a current source.  There is no "radiant" anything.  If you can accept that and want to inform yourself, great.  However, if you continue to use terminology that is simply not true then you are just zombie walking.

What I have done has everything to do with your thread.  If you don't understand what the spike is, how can you possibly expect to use it properly?

You now have a foundation to work from.  If you were wise you would spend a few days reading and informing yourself and researching online.  Look at real electronics information and forums, look at clips from electronics hobbyists, not from free energy researchers so you can develop a firmer and more solid foundation.  It's wake up time so you can get more out of your hobby and do better projects and better experiments.  You need to understand what you are actually observing instead of hanging a bunch of fake buzz words on what you are observing.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: minoly on December 18, 2015, 08:17:17 AM

It must get under your skin eh... lol if it wasn't so sad.



Yes it is from your thread that you started on EF.  "Plucked" is a very informal term so to be more precise I got text that was actually from a quote in a posting.  It's a quote from Aaron.

What you need to understand is what is much more important.  That thing you need to understand is that the statement from Aaron is pure BS.  You now know what the spike really is.  There are no "alternative viewpoints," that's just hiding from the truth.  The spike is what it is, facts are facts.  The spike is a discharge of current from an energized coil in the from of a current source.  There is no "radiant" anything.  If you can accept that and want to inform yourself, great.  However, if you continue to use terminology that is simply not true then you are just zombie walking.

What I have done has everything to do with your thread.  If you don't understand what the spike is, how can you possibly expect to use it properly?

You now have a foundation to work from.  If you were wise you would spend a few days reading and informing yourself and researching online.  Look at real electronics information and forums, look at clips from electronics hobbyists, not from free energy researchers so you can develop a firmer and more solid foundation.  It's wake up time so you can get more out of your hobby and do better projects and better experiments.  You need to understand what you are actually observing instead of hanging a bunch of fake buzz words on what you are observing.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: minoly on December 18, 2015, 08:37:20 AM
I have a question for you MH, in the spirit of cooperation and good faith.  Also, in line with the topic on this thread. You’ve been bopping about many forums as the self-proclaimed guru of text book. What are the basic factors we should consider when creating the largest spike possible for the least amount of energy? If you had to nail it down to under 10 main concerns, using a coil, what would they be?
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: TinselKoala on December 18, 2015, 08:43:07 AM
This is what's sad:

"So I've gone ahead and try and clean things up a little bit...."


Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: TinselKoala on December 18, 2015, 08:46:58 AM
I have a question for you MH, in the spirit of cooperation and good faith.  Also, in line with the topic on this thread. You’ve been bopping about many forums as the self-proclaimed guru of text book. What are the basic factors we should consider when creating the largest spike possible for the least amount of energy? If you had to nail it down to under 10 main concerns, using a coil, what would they be?

Let me jump in here and ask you to be more precise in your terminology.

Just what do you mean by "Largest spike"? Do you mean the greatest voltage, the greatest current, the greatest area under the "curve" made by the spike on the scope (integral of voltage during the time), or something else?

What do you mean by "least amount of energy"? Do you mean energy as measured by Joules, total input to the circuit? Do you mean voltage, or current, or something else, input to the switched coil itself, or what?

Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: minoly on December 18, 2015, 09:34:41 AM
Wow! really Tinsel...   The answer to your questions - yes. You're a smart guy right... you already knew the answer to your questions...
sad, but go right ahead don't let me stop you. I know you'll continue.



Let me jump in here and ask you to be more precise in your terminology.

Just what do you mean by "Largest spike"? Do you mean the greatest voltage, the greatest current, the greatest area under the "curve" made by the spike on the scope (integral of voltage during the time), or something else?

What do you mean by "least amount of energy"? Do you mean energy as measured by Joules, total input to the circuit? Do you mean voltage, or current, or something else, input to the switched coil itself, or what?
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on December 18, 2015, 03:52:00 PM
I have a question for you MH, in the spirit of cooperation and good faith.  Also, in line with the topic on this thread. You’ve been bopping about many forums as the self-proclaimed guru of text book. What are the basic factors we should consider when creating the largest spike possible for the least amount of energy? If you had to nail it down to under 10 main concerns, using a coil, what would they be?

No, you didn't really get under my skin.

I would have to say to you that it's a naive question.  The answer is just basic nuts and bolts and it has already been answered in my previous postings in this thread.  Let's ignore resistive losses to keep it simple.  The energy in the spike will be equal to the amount energy you expend to energize the coil, so the "least amount of energy for the largest spike" is a misnomer.  You pick your inductance and your final current before you stop energizing the coil.  The final current is determined by how much voltage you put across the coil and how long you energize it and the size of the inductance.  The resistance of the load or the size of the capacitance determines how high the voltage spike will be or how high a voltage the capacitor will get charged to.  By playing with all of the parameters you can create any kind of spike that you want.

And here's the thing to think about:  Your buddies on EF in your thread would never say what I said above.  It would be wonderful if they all got to that place so they could have a better understanding and do better experiments.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: minoly on December 18, 2015, 05:22:03 PM
The answer is just basic nuts and bolts and it has already been answered in my previous postings in this thread.  Let's ignore resistive losses to keep it simple.  The energy in the spike will be equal to the amount energy you expend to energize the coil, so the "least amount of energy for the largest spike" is a misnomer.  You pick your inductance and your final current before you stop energizing the coil.  The final current is determined by how much voltage you put across the coil and how long you energize it and the size of the inductance.  The resistance of the load or the size of the capacitance determines how high the voltage spike will be or how high a voltage the capacitor will get charged to.  By playing with all of the parameters you can create any kind of spike that you want.

And here's the thing to think about:  Your buddies on EF in your thread would never say what I said above.  It would be wonderful if they all got to that place so they could have a better understanding and do better experiments.



E = -L dI/dt
This was a decent post, thank you for adding in a mostly positive direction. We can see and I hope you agree the other stuff is not necessary and only serves to alienate and antagonize which I’m sure is not your goal.


What is the formula for trying to wind an ideal coil ie… number of turns, Awg, coil inner diameter, height, etc? Or is it easier to work the other way around. What is the formula we can use to plug in these parameters to come up with the spike voltage given the supply voltage and time as you say?


No need to repost if there is already a discussion on this can you point me to it…

Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on December 18, 2015, 10:07:07 PM
E = -L dI/dt
This was a decent post, thank you for adding in a mostly positive direction. We can see and I hope you agree the other stuff is not necessary and only serves to alienate and antagonize which I’m sure is not your goal.

What is the formula for trying to wind an ideal coil ie… number of turns, Awg, coil inner diameter, height, etc? Or is it easier to work the other way around. What is the formula we can use to plug in these parameters to come up with the spike voltage given the supply voltage and time as you say?

No need to repost if there is already a discussion on this can you point me to it…

There is no such thing as an "ideal coil."  You can look up the formulas for winding coils that will give you the inductance and wire resistance and so on.  For right now the simplest thing to do is start with the basics.

Quote
What is the formula we can use to plug in these parameters to come up with the spike voltage given the supply voltage and time as you say?

Just about any coil you have or want to make can produce the same spike voltage.  You don't even need a formula to determine the spike voltage.  The only thing you need to know is the current flowing through the coil and the load resistance.

You need to start at square one.  I am sure that you have a fist-sized or larger coil where the wire is a fairly heavy gauge so the total resistance is less than 10 ohms.  You can use a coil like that to start.

Compliments of Verpies I attached a diagram that shows a charging current waveform for a coil.  The charging time constant is L/R where L is the inductance of the coil under test and R is the the battery resistance plus the coil resistance plus the transistor ON resistance.  In most cases you can ignore the battery resistance and the transistor ON resistance.  The L/R time constant is called "Tau."   Look at the graph and notice that after one Tau the charging current is 63% of the way to the final current.  That means that you can simply look at the charging (or discharging) current waveform for a coil and work the numbers back and determine the inductance of your coil under test.

In other words:   Coil Inductance = R-effective * Tau.   In the discharging case, R-effective is typically the coil resistance plus the R1 resistance.  Measuring the inductance of a coil with your scope is a no-brainer.  The easiest thing to do is measure the Tau by looking at the voltage discharge curve for the coil across the R1 resistance.  Tau is measured at the point where the peak voltage has decreased by 63%.  You do not need an inductance meter if you keep this simple circuit handy.

When a coil discharges you get a current waveform that is simply an upside-down version of the charging waveform.

I made up a schematic for you for investigating the spike.  You can see how the CVR shows you both the charging current waveform for the coil when the transistor is ON, and the discharging current waveform when the transistor switches OFF.  Notice how at the instant when the transistor switches off the current though the CVR does not change.  You should see an exponential increase in the current followed by an exponential decrease in the current with the two Taus determined by your choices for the resistor values.

TP2 will show you the spike.  When you want to try making very high voltage spikes of several thousand volts, then add optional R2 to make a resistor divider network and use TP3.   You don't have to actually see a 3000-volt spike on your scope display, just see a smaller version of it by looking at TP3.

R3 is an optional resistor for changing the L/R time constant for energizing the coil.  Put in a resistor there then L/R, "Tau," becomes a smaller value.  You can observe this on the CVR.   Likewise optional R3 + R1 plus optional R2 will affect the L/R time constant for the discharging of the coil.

So for starters, how do you get a 100 volt spike to display on your scope?  The answer is very easy.  If you adjust the pulse width so that the CVR is telling you that one amp of current is flowing through the coil, then make R1 100 ohms and you will get a 100-volt spike.  Make R1 200 ohms and you will get a 200-volt spike.  It's that easy.  What if you adjust the pulse width so that the CVR is telling you that two amps of current is flowing through the coil?   Then just make R1 50 ohms and you will get a 100-volt spike.

I strongly urge you to make this circuit and then play with different coils and resistor values until you get to the point where everything makes sense to you and you have mastered it.   Then for the next step you can replace R1 with a large capacitor and start investigating that part of it.  You have be careful through because you could easily over-voltage your capacitors.

If you have any questions please feel free to ask.

I also strongly encourage you to share this schematic and the instructions with your peers on the EF thread because they are also starving for the proper information so they too can understand how the spike works.

MileHigh
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: TinselKoala on December 18, 2015, 11:31:49 PM
1.5 V in, over 800 V out.  Circuit is a self triggering JT using principles illustrated by MH's sample circuit:

Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: TinselKoala on December 18, 2015, 11:40:22 PM
And just for fun....

24 V in, over 200 kV out: ZVS oscillator driving flyback transformer feeding multielement spark gap to make Spikes to drive the primary of a tuned aircore resonator (aka Tesla coil):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIZClhoU2Xk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIZClhoU2Xk)
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: Jimboot on December 18, 2015, 11:42:59 PM
Apparently this belongs here. Merry Christmas to you too MH.
I have no idea what provoked this nonsense.
Luc Jbignes & I just got this message referencing this thread. So I'm copying and pasting here. MH do not send me personal msgs again.
Thanks


"Jimboot, Jbignes5:[/size]Read the following posting that I made:http://overunity.com/16200/the-spike/msg468858/#new (http://overunity.com/16200/the-spike/msg468858/#new)Now why don't you two guys tell how much of a fucking horrible person I am?  I must be the devil incarnate, right?You guys listen to me:  I will not be publicly viciously and gratuitously bashed and bashed and bashed by the likes of you.  Sometimes you might not like what I say because when I see bullshit I will say it sometimes.  Tough shit for you.  I do not gratuitously attack people like the way the two of you allege and the way the two of you put in a sustained and relentless attack on me.Do not do it again.Jbignes5, fuck you with your ridiculous MIB fantasies.   Jimboot, fuck you with your passive-agressive psychobabble and your inability to admit when you are wrong.  Both of you need grow up.Luc is being copied because he is not as absolutely awful as the two of you, but because he was a complete jackass when he threatened to kick me of the forum for expressing some frustration like some little petty imaginary wanking dictator.  Shame on you.If you have any issues with me I will listen, but I will not be demeaned and degraded in a hostile and relentless public attack by either of you.I bring real value to this forum as shown by the posting I linked to and all three of you have to know that.Now, the clock has been reset.  I expect the three of you to move on from here with a blank slate.MileHigh"
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on December 18, 2015, 11:52:43 PM
You know exactly why I sent you that private email and you are lying.  A few weeks ago you maliciously and relentlessly publicly attacked me over and over and over.  You can't be so daft that you don't remember that so you are lying.

You just made yourself look even worse Jimboot by posting a private email correspondence that told you in no uncertain terms to not do again what you did to me a few weeks ago.

So here you are doing even worse than what you did a few weeks ago.  Posting private email correspondence without my permission is truly awful behaviour.  I showed you a posting in this thread that I made that is a very positive contribution to this forum to illustrate how your behaviour towards me was totally wrong.  How low can you really go?  Shame on you.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: Jimboot on December 19, 2015, 12:11:21 AM
You know exactly why I sent you that private email and you are lying.  A few weeks ago you maliciously and relentlessly publicly attacked me over and over and over.  You can't be so daft that you don't remember that so you are lying.

You just made yourself look even worse Jimboot by posting a private email correspondence that told you in no uncertain terms to not do again what you did to me a few weeks ago.

So here you are doing even worse than what you did a few weeks ago.  Posting private email correspondence without my permission is truly awful behaviour.  I showed you a posting in this thread that I made that is a very positive contribution to this forum to illustrate how your behaviour towards me was totally wrong.  How low can you really go?  Shame on you.
Since you refuse to respect my request of not privately messaging me, I have setup a rule so all your future messages will be automatically deleted. Please stop your harassment.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on December 19, 2015, 12:14:31 AM
Jimboot, you have succeeded in making yourself look badder than bad.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: Jimboot on December 19, 2015, 12:20:56 AM
For anyone else wondering where the ignore settings are.
edit: The reason I posted the MH vile & abusive unprovoked message here, Is that he referenced this thread. I have never sworn or used expletives towards anyone here. I think that is a common courtesy we should extend to one another. Obviously as you can see MH does not agree. I still have no idea why he sent me his vitriolic paranoid ramblings. I think he wanted a gold star or something to show what a well behaved forum poster he is.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on December 19, 2015, 12:26:07 AM
The real things to ignore are all of Jimboot's gratuitously malicious and ugly postings and his complete lack of common sense etiquette, Internet or not, and we can get on with this thread.  Sorry that he had to be such a fool as to post private correspondence without my permission.  He has gotten the message so hopefully he will listen.

Edit:

Quote
edit: The reason I posted the MH vile & abusive unprovoked message here, Is that he referenced this thread. I have never sworn or used expletives towards anyone here. I think that is a common courtesy we should extend to one another. Obviously as you can see MH does not agree. I still have no idea why he sent me his vitriolic paranoid ramblings. I think he wanted a gold star or something to show what a well behaved forum poster he is.

Why don't you stop being so full of crap and act like a real man instead of a lying little weasel?  You posted your message to show the world how to go about things in a completely wrong way and make yourself look like a complete idiot, it has nothing at all to do with me referencing this thread.  That's another ridiculous lie.  Wow, what an astute and impressive "Internet Marketing Consultant" you are.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on December 19, 2015, 12:43:51 AM
1.5 V in, over 800 V out.  Circuit is a self triggering JT using principles illustrated by MH's sample circuit:

Way to go TK!  I think the fun part to my simple circuit is putting in the voltage divider so that you can measure really high spike voltages without damaging your scope.  If Patrick or his peers build the circuit, they can take some big coils and up the resistance values and see how high they can push it without fear.

For Patrick:  If you were going to start going for higher and higher spike voltages, you will see that the coil discharges in a shorter and shorter amount of time.  So that means that all of the spike energy stored in the coil will be burnt off in the high-value resistance in one shot.  That presents its own problems and I will discuss that.

Suppose that your coil stores five joules of energy with one amp flowing through it and you put a 1/2 watt 10K resistor for R1 and a 1/2 watt 200-ohm resistor for R2.  You are trying to make a 10 kilovolt spike.  Chances are all of that energy being instantly dissipated in the 10K resistor in a fraction of a second will make it explode.   So what you will have to do is simply make a string of 10 1k-ohm 1/2 watt resistors in series.  Then all of the energy in the coil will be instantly dissipated but distributed over all 10 resistors and you will be fine.

MileHigh
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on December 19, 2015, 03:00:48 AM
I went too far when I discussed very very high spike voltages.  I also forgot to discuss the practical limits to the maximum spike voltage as it pertains to the transistor and the signal generator.  Depending on the transistor you use, there are specifications for the maximum collector-emitter and collector-base voltages it can sustain when it is switched off.  For the signal generator output, something like a "totem pole" of a series of very fast switching diodes across the output that will conduct starting at perhaps five volts above the nominal high signal generator output would be a suggestion.  This would be to protect the signal generator output if the transistor were to break down from high voltage.  That's where people like TK could give you some solid advice.

Instead of seeing how high you can push your spike voltage, keeping it a reasonable and safe distance away from the break-down voltages of the transistor or MOSFET would be the wise way to go.  After all, the purpose of the investigation is not to see how high you can push the spike voltage, it's to understand how to control and use the spike.

Say for the sake of argument that your transistor can withstand 750 volts when it is switched off.  If you keep the spike voltage to 500 volts and less, you should be fine.  You should not need a totem pole of protection diodes on the signal generator output either.  The real point of the test circuit is to see how a coil generates a spike, and the time it takes for the decay of the spike, for different initial currents through the coil, and for different values of load resistor.  You don't need to see the spike voltages to go into the stratosphere for that.  When you look at the case for an ideal inductor of any inductance value, the theoretical maximum spike voltage is infinity.

If you understand how the spike works and try different coils, try different timings and associated initial currents, and different load resistors, then when you start doing other experiments with pulse motors and related stuff you will understand what you are observing and be in a position to modify and adapt your circuits to your applications.

"Radiant energy" has nothing at all to do with this investigation.  An equivalent mechanical test bed would be a series of flywheels that you spin up to different speeds.  Then you apply disk brakes to the spinning flywheel and measure the force that the spinning flywheel imparts on the disk brakes.  The faster and with more force the disk brakes clamp down on the spinning flywheel the more force will be imparted on the disk brake assembly.  That force is the mechanical equivalent to the voltage spike.

MileHigh
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: EMJunkie on December 19, 2015, 03:13:28 AM
I went too far when I discussed very very high spike voltages.  I also forgot to discuss the practical limits to the maximum spike voltage as it pertains to the transistor and the signal generator.  Depending on the transistor you use, there are specifications for the maximum collector-emitter and collector-base voltages it can sustain when it is switched off.  For the signal generator output, something like a "totem pole" of a series of very fast switching diodes across the output that will conduct starting at perhaps five volts above the nominal high signal generator output would be a suggestion.  This would be to protect the signal generator output if the transistor were to break down from high voltage.  That's where people like TK could give you some solid advice.

Instead of seeing how high you can push your spike voltage, keeping it a reasonable and safe distance away from the break-down voltages of the transistor or MOSFET would be the wise way to go.  After all, the purpose of the investigation is not to see how high you can push the spike voltage, it's to understand how to control and use the spike.

Say for the sake of argument that your transistor can withstand 750 volts when it is switched off.  If you keep the spike voltage to 500 volts and less, you should be fine.  You should not need a totem pole of protection diodes on the signal generator output either.  The real point of the test circuit is to see how a coil generates a spike, and the time it takes for the decay of the spike, for different initial currents through the coil, and for different values of load resistor.  You don't need to see the spike voltages to go into the stratosphere for that.  When you look at the case for an ideal inductor of any inductance value, the theoretical maximum spike voltage is infinity.

If you understand how the spike works and try different coils, try different timings and associated initial currents, and different load resistors, then when you start doing other experiments with pulse motors and related stuff you will understand what you are observing and be in a position to modify and adapt your circuits to your applications.

"Radiant energy" has nothing at all to do with this investigation.  An equivalent mechanical test bed would be a series of flywheels that you spin up to different speeds.  Then you apply disk brakes to the spinning flywheel and measure the force that the spinning flywheel imparts on the disk brakes.  The faster and with more force the disk brakes clamp down on the spinning flywheel the more force will be imparted on the disk brake assembly.  That force is the mechanical equivalent to the voltage spike.

MileHigh


MileHigh is right here!

The Inductive Spike is E = -LdI/dt - All this means is that the Magnetic Field, Stored in the Inductor, which is the LdI part, the Negative sign, which is the Polarity reversal, and dt is the Time Rate of Change.

Its simply Induction, it all comes from the Induction Law emf = -NdPhi/dt - Its the same thing!

Radiant Energy/Cold Current, really is a bunch of Horse Malarkey Rubbish! Designed to have people running down Rabbit Holes chasing Magic Rabbits! Its all Induction, it will never ever change.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

P.S: Yes I used to get sucked into this Radiant Rubbish before I knew better.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on December 19, 2015, 03:58:28 AM
The Inductive Spike is E = -LdI/dt - All this means is that the Magnetic Field, Stored in the Inductor, which is the LdI part, the Negative sign, which is the Polarity reversal, and dt is the Time Rate of Change.

You are close but let me fine tune it.

The voltage generated by a coil of inductance L:  E = LdI/dt

But how do you relate that to what I state in my previous posting?  If the load resistor is zero, then the current through the coil will not change, so then:  E = 0 = LdI/dt where  dI/dt is zero.

The higher the value of the load resistor, the higher the initial voltage and the faster the coil will discharge its stored energy and the faster the current will change:  dI/dt will be a high value for a high value of load resistor.

We can look at the initial conditions to get a handle on what the equation means the instant the coil starts discharging through the load resistor:

We know that the initial voltage is simply the current through the coil times the value of the load resistor: V-initial = (I-initial *R)

So at the instant the coil starts discharging we can say this:  (I-initial *R) = (L * dI/dt)

Therefore the rate of change of the current waveform at the instant discharging starts is: dI/dt = (I-initial *R)/L = V-initial/L

Therefore: L = V-initial/(dI/dt)

That means that by looking at the slope of the current waveform when the coil starts discharging and measuring the initial voltage you can determine the inductance of the coil.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: Jimboot on December 19, 2015, 04:14:55 AM
here is a general rule. If you don't want something on the Internet dont publish in the first place.
Quote from: Jimboot on December 18, 2015, 11:54:45 PM[/font][/size]I'm over your abusive language. You are incapable of having a civil discourse please do not message me again.MilehighTry as much as you want Jimboot, the awful truth is the truth and you can't squirm out of it.   Making my private email to you public by posting it in a thread was a truly horrible godawful thing to do.  You truly stink.  Shame on you.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on December 19, 2015, 04:26:35 AM
here is a general rule. If you don't want something on the Internet dont publish in the first place.
Quote from: Jimboot on December 18, 2015, 11:54:45 PM[/font][/size]I'm over your abusive language. You are incapable of having a civil discourse please do not message me again.MilehighTry as much as you want Jimboot, the awful truth is the truth and you can't squirm out of it.   Making my private email to you public by posting it in a thread was a truly horrible godawful thing to do.  You truly stink.  Shame on you.

What a bad-ass little wanker you are.

Here is a general rule:  Don't post private correspondence without the other person's permission because it makes you look like a malicious fool.

Here is another general rule:  Be a man.  If someone tells you privately to not do another round of dozens of postings of personal attacks, then apologize for your inappropriate behaviour and man up to it and get the message.  When you hold seminars for your clients do you advise them to take controversial personal correspondence dealing with inappropriate behaviour and forward it to everyone else or post it on the Intenet?

Take your own postings and send them to your clients as a lesson in what not to do.

Now, if you have something to contribute to this thread then fine.  If not, then stop while you are way behind.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: Jimboot on December 19, 2015, 01:19:52 PM
What a bad-ass little wanker you are.

Here is a general rule:  Don't post private correspondence without the other person's permission because it makes you look like a malicious fool.

Here is another general rule:  Be a man.  If someone tells you privately to not do another round of dozens of postings of personal attacks, then apologize for your inappropriate behaviour and man up to it and get the message.  When you hold seminars for your clients do you advise them to take controversial personal correspondence dealing with inappropriate behaviour and forward it to everyone else or post it on the Intenet?

Take your own postings and send them to your clients as a lesson in what not to do.

Now, if you have something to contribute to this thread then fine.  If not, then stop while you are way behind.


I get an email from you this morning telling me to go eff myself, along with others included in the email??????? And then to come a read this post. So here I am.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on December 19, 2015, 04:06:33 PM

I get an email from you this morning telling me to go eff myself, along with others included in the email? ??? ??? And then to come a read this post. So here I am.

So now you have reduced yourself to trolling the thread.  What's the term, bogan?  After all, you did threaten physical violence on me.  Patrick seems like a sensitive guy and he probably will not come around here so you have ruined it for him.

Patrick, feel free to take the diagrams and the instructions and share them with your peers on EF so you guys can learn about the spike.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: Jimboot on December 19, 2015, 10:27:38 PM
Maybe you should not have sent the email then?
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on December 19, 2015, 11:10:27 PM
Maybe you shouldn't have posted it.  If a person sent me a email never in a million years would I consider posting it.  And I am not a compulsive or pathological liar and I don't physically threaten people.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: Jimboot on December 19, 2015, 11:53:36 PM
For someone who demands evidence of everyone else, it seldom accompanies your own accusations. Anyway, why did you want me here in this thread?
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on December 20, 2015, 12:08:17 AM
I don't want you here.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: Jimboot on December 20, 2015, 12:46:09 AM
I don't want you here.
Oh ok I misunderstood. I'll ask again nicely. Please do not message me again.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on December 20, 2015, 02:14:09 AM
Oh ok I misunderstood. I'll ask again nicely. Please do not message me again.

You must be daft or lying because I did not message you.  I'll make it clear to you:  Do not harass and hound me like you did in the RMS thread.  Don't threaten me like you did in the RMS thread.  Go buy a book called "Internet for Morons" and read it.  They will tell you that publicly posting a strongly worded email from someone will make you look much much worse than the attempt made by you to make the sender look bad.  They will tell you that doing it a second time will result in you making yourself look downright creepy.  I strongly suggest that you read the book to make yourself smarter.

Now we are done.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: Jimboot on December 20, 2015, 02:57:05 AM

You must be daft or lying because I did not message you.  I'll make it clear to you:  Do not harass and hound me like you did in the RMS thread.  Don't threaten me like you did in the RMS thread.  Go buy a book called "Internet for Morons" and read it.  They will tell you that publicly posting a strongly worded email from someone will make you look much much worse than the attempt made by you to make the sender look bad.  They will tell you that doing it a second time will result in you making yourself look downright creepy.  I strongly suggest that you read the book to make yourself smarter.

Now we are done.
You did not message me? What is this then? Is someone posing as you?

I must be daft or lying?


MileHigh is so horrible [size=8pt !important]« Sent to: gotoluc (http://overunity.com/profile/gotoluc.3997/), Jimboot (http://overunity.com/profile/jimboot.4667/), jbignes5 (http://overunity.com/profile/jbignes5.25455/) on: December 18, 2015, 11:06:54 PM » [/font]
[size=8pt !important]« You have forwarded or responded to this message. »[/size][size=0.85em]
[size=78%]/delete/f/inbox/d352bc9ba41/9bb55c9955e0cb6514ab6ff7c813ff27/start/30/]Delete (http://overunity.com/pm/sa/pmactions/pm_actions[70002)[/size]


Jimboot, Jbignes5:

Read the following posting that I made:

http://overunity.com/16200/the-spike/msg468858/#new (http://overunity.com/16200/the-spike/msg468858/#new)

Now why don't you two guys tell how much of a fucking horrible person I am?  I must be the devil incarnate, right?

You guys listen to me:  I will not be publicly viciously and gratuitously bashed and bashed and bashed by the likes of you.  Sometimes you might not like what I say because when I see bullshit I will say it sometimes.  Tough shit for you.  I do not gratuitously attack people like the way the two of you allege and the way the two of you put in a sustained and relentless attack on me.

Do not do it again.

Jbignes5, fuck you with your ridiculous MIB fantasies.   Jimboot, fuck you with your passive-agressive psychobabble and your inability to admit when you are wrong.  Both of you need grow up.

Luc is being copied because he is not as absolutely awful as the two of you, but because he was a complete jackass when he threatened to kick me of the forum for expressing some frustration like some little petty imaginary wanking dictator.  Shame on you.

If you have any issues with me I will listen, but I will not be demeaned and degraded in a hostile and relentless public attack by either of you.

I bring real value to this forum as shown by the posting I linked to and all three of you have to know that.

Now, the clock has been reset.  I expect the three of you to move on from here with a blank slate.

MileHigh




I have interest of harassing or attacking you. But when I receive a message, which you have clearly denied, telling me to go eff myself I will respond. As I am sure would you if the reverse were true. So please tell me, were you hacked? Did someone else send that message?
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on December 20, 2015, 03:00:04 AM
There you go again, Mr. Beyond Creepy.  Yuck!
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on December 20, 2015, 03:01:35 AM
Oh ok I misunderstood. I'll ask again nicely. Please do not message me again.

That's today, December 19th.  You already blocked me.  I did not message you "again."

Yuck!
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: Jimboot on December 20, 2015, 03:16:45 AM
Aaah ok...
Quote
"You must be daft or lying because I did not message you."
[/font][/size]
I was just going on what you published not what was inside your head hence the confusion. [/size]
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on December 20, 2015, 03:20:44 AM
No, I was just going on what you published.  Now will you stop it now?  The RMS thread was to do something good.  The man was doing something ridiculous and fundamentally dishonest and I was doing something good by pointing it out.  And for doing something good I get relentlessly attacked by you.  Keeping that posting up of my personal and private correspondence to you just makes you look absolutely godawful.  Now please go away.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: Jimboot on December 20, 2015, 03:31:39 AM
No, I was just going on what you published.  Now will you stop it now?  The RMS thread was to do something good.  The man was doing something ridiculous and fundamentally dishonest and I was doing something good by pointing it out.  And for doing something good I get relentlessly attacked by you.  Keeping that posting up of my personal and private correspondence to you just makes you look absolutely godawful.  Now please go away.
I know this is boring right? btw it was not private. You were abusive to both Luc & Jbig as well in the same message. If you do not want people interacting with you, don't send messages like the one above. Too easy right?!
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on December 20, 2015, 03:48:17 AM
I know this is boring right? btw it was not private. You were abusive to both Luc & Jbig as well in the same message. If you do not want people interacting with you, don't send messages like the one above. Too easy right?!

Go do your Internet etiquette seminars with your clients and tell them to do what you did and see what kind of a response you get.  You are lucky your clients don't come here.
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: Jimboot on December 20, 2015, 07:10:52 AM
Go do your Internet etiquette seminars with your clients and tell them to do what you did and see what kind of a response you get.  You are lucky your clients don't come here.
Yeah you seem a little unclear on that. Maybe try a sig file that says something like "please do not republish without my express permission" would help you? I know saying please and thank you would seem odd in an email where you have told people to go eff themselves, who knows it may work. Or, here's a thought, maybe don't send messages like that in the first place... and then.. wait for it, this is where the magic happens... there would be nothing to republish! Genius eh? 
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: MileHigh on December 20, 2015, 08:47:41 AM
Quote
btw it was not private.
I send a private and sensitive email to three people and you try to feign that it's public?  Are you retarded?  Do you think people reading are nuts?  I think the answer is that you are a compulsive or pathological liar and you do this all the time, you are wired like this and it doesn't phase you to be exposed.  At least people know your true colours now.  I am done.

#1, #4, #6, #7, #8 and #13 mate.  Stay away.
http://www.wikihow.com/Identify-a-Psychopath (http://www.wikihow.com/Identify-a-Psychopath)
Title: Re: The Spike
Post by: Jimboot on December 20, 2015, 09:01:06 AM
I send a private and sensitive email to three people and you try to feign that it's public?  Are you retarded?  Do you think people reading are nuts?  I think the answer is that you are a compulsive or pathological liar and you do this all the time, you are wired like this and it doesn't phase you to be exposed.  At least people know your true colours now.  I am done.

#1, #4, #6, #7, #8 and #13 mate.  Stay away.
http://www.wikihow.com/Identify-a-Psychopath (http://www.wikihow.com/Identify-a-Psychopath)
Lied? Where? I just find it amazing that you think it's ok to send msgs  like you did.
Just As a matter of interest how would you react if someone anonymous on this forum told you to eff yourself. You're ok with that right?