Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 514775
  • *Total Topics: 15317
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 1
  • *Guests: 13
  • *Total: 14

Author Topic: The Spike  (Read 17772 times)

Offline minoly

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
The Spike
« on: November 19, 2015, 09:38:30 PM »
“The critical thing is the spike, it's been the spike all along, the exact replica basically of a nerve impulse.” – who said this…

1.    How can we create it…
https://youtu.be/KKUbVAMFZqw
There are many methods to create it I’m hoping to get the basic basics please share 1 or 2 of the best methods you use or have heard of.

2.     How can we harvest the spike..
I don’t have a quick video reference for this but I basically want to talk about methods to get it from the inductor to a “storage” device which “later” allows us to use it in some way. The above video for example uses a single diode and a full wave bridge rectifier to get it to a CAP.

3.   What can we do with it…

NilreHob gives us some math. Look in description for the pdf’s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZcvOWSXcbU
Woopy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tag5OlvPi54
me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tFTyYsB1QY
there are many things people have done over the years. Lights batteries drive motors, on and on. First I want to get into creating it.
 
I see here on this forum topics can get off hand quickly and into a different universe entirely. Let's hope this one can stay on topic and yet allow for ideas to thrive at the same time. No gestapo here...
 
I will continue to post as the subject remains close to topic and as I have time.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

The Spike
« on: November 19, 2015, 09:38:30 PM »

Offline minoly

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Attempt to remove of Human Error
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2015, 11:13:57 PM »
Here I attempt to remove as much human error as I care to at this point.
I keep saying the energy rushes into the cap when I mean to say coil...
https://youtu.be/822yyCWyYXw


Notice the wave form, notice that it captures the inrush of energy as well as the discharge. My cap does not have enough joules to fill that coil does it...
The battery does however and allows us to see more of how a coil takes in and discharges.
cheers


Offline minoly

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
The Spike melts tungsten
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2015, 05:04:46 AM »
Laurent creates the spike using a "universal motor" and melts tungsten!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAx7Y0UIyHA
Nice work!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

The Spike melts tungsten
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2015, 05:04:46 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
Re: The Spike
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2015, 07:08:37 AM »
Minoly,

I assume that you have been following the discussions on the other threads.  By now you should know that the spike is simply the coil discharging its stored energy in the form of a pulse of current into a load.  If the load is zero ohms, then the pulse of current manifests no voltage spike at all.  If the load is 10,000 ohms, then you can expect to see a short high-voltage spike.

How does that apply to the charging of a battery in a JB pulse motor?

One thing that is never discussed is how many amps of current can the battery reasonably be expected to sustain when you are pulse charging it?  Imagine a small battery.  If the initial pulse of current is 50 amps, that might floor the battery with way too much current.  Then the battery will simply act like a big fat resistor and one can assume that most of the spike energy will be lost as heat instead of actually recharging the battery.  It might even ruin the battery.  On the other hand, if the initial pulse of current is 20 miliamps, the battery may barely be charged by that feeble pulse and it will take days to noticeably charge the battery.  Who knows, perhaps the battery has a minimum current threshold to get charging going in the battery chemistry, and 20 milliamp current pulses will just be lost and mainly heat the battery also.

What this implies, is that for different physical battery sizes, and for different battery chemistries, there is some kind of "sweet spot range" for optimum battery charging with current pulses.  That "sweet spot range" may also be a function of the ongoing state of charge of the battery through time also.

Here is one thing that is absolutely certain:  No current pulse going into a battery, no matter how optimized it is, will be 100% efficient in charging the battery.  There will always be some waste heat generated for each pulse of current going into the battery.

Here is another thing that is absolutely certain:  If the battery is 100% charged, then all pulses of current going into the battery will become 100% waste heat.

Here is another thing that is presumably a certainty:  Every battery will have a pulse current charging threshold where above that current threshold you are more like frying the battery as opposed to charging the battery.  Frying the battery means that the majority of the energy in the current pulse becomes waste heat.  Presumably, there is a good chance that the battery will become damaged by excessively large currents in the current pulses.

Therefore, if you want to design a good pulsing battery charger, you need to have a handle on what current pulse the battery "likes" and then you have to tune your current pulse characteristics and associated pulse frequency to make everything amenable to charging the battery as efficiently as possible.  Presumably you also have to know when to stop charging so you don't whack your battery needlessly with current pulses that go nowhere and just become waste heat.

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
Re: The Spike
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2015, 07:43:25 AM »
So how do we characterize the current pulse coming from the drive coil that goes into the charging battery?

It's has an initial current value that can easily be measured with a scope and a one-ohm CVR.

It has a fixed amount of energy in it that is proportional to the initial amount of current in the pulse.  E = 1/2 L i-squared.

It will have a discharge curve that decreases down to zero that is a function of the load.  The voltage that you see manifesting from the current pulse is a function of the load.

In summary, when you are pulse charging a battery the two main properties of the current pulse are the initial number of amperes in the current pulse, and the total amount of energy in the pulse.

The total amount of energy in the pulse is a function of the size and number of turns in the drive coil.  If you are going to pulse charge a battery you should measure the amount of energy in the pulse.  The more energy in the pulse, the longer the discharge curve will take to decrease to zero.

What is the current discharging curve like when it goes into a target battery?  Just take a look at the waveform across the one-ohm CVR for yourself and find out.  It will look somewhat similar to the exponential discharge curve that you see when a coil discharges across a fixed resistor.

How come you see almost no voltage spike when the current pulse goes into a charging battery that is in good condition?  If the current level is one amp and the battery is 12.6 volts, then R = V/I so the battery looks like a 12.6-ohm resistor.  However, the differential resistance of the battery is very low, say mlilliohms, so you only will see a small bump in the battery voltage above 12.6 volts.  It's the battery that is determining the voltage output by the coil.

So we know that you see a big voltage spike when the battery is old and dead and sulfated.  In this case the battery is acting like a high-value resistor, so it's natural that the coil will manifest a high voltage.  Note that the coil will force its current into any load, no matter what.  It's like a charging bull of current, and if it has to turn the air into conductive plasma in order to discharge it will.  It's just the way it works.  That's why inductive current pulse charging can rejuvenate a dead battery when applying a voltage source to the battery won't recharge it.  The voltage source will not force energy into the dead battery but a discharging inductor will literally force its energy into the dead battery.

So that's the deal.  If you take your favourite JB pulse motor you should hook it up to a charging battery and put a one-ohm CVR in line with the charging battery and scope the CVR.  All of the information about the battery charging characteristics will be in the CVR waveform.  Whatever pulsing you see in the charging battery voltage is secondary, more of a sideshow.

The other thing you want to do is measure the average charging power that goes into the charging battery.  That gives you a handle on how much energy you may be putting into the charging battery.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Spike
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2015, 07:43:25 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline minoly

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: The Spike
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2015, 09:13:13 PM »
A little more fumbling around in the dark so to say… trying to find that balance between machine and human error that will allow me to enhance the spike without conflating too many variables…
https://youtu.be/ymv4SFsTqmI
So was the one wire move helpful or does it harm the harvest...

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
Re: The Spike
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2015, 02:40:05 AM »
Patrick:

I read your equivalent thread on EF:  http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20335-radiant-spike-puts-out-more-than-current.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41cfHcb7qd8

Your description for this clip is,  "This is the pure currentless radiant spike being used to do work."

But of course the reality is that a discharging inductor outputs a pulse of current.  I know you find it hard to accept this and probably look at me like I am some sort of "disinformation agent" but nothing could be further from the truth.

For a capacitor, it outputs voltage with variable current.
For an inductor, it outputs current with variable voltage.

Do you see the symmetry?   One stores energy in an electric field, the other stores energy in a magnetic field.

A very good analogy for an inductor is a spinning flywheel where the rotational speed is analogous to the current, the torque is analogous to the voltage, and the size of the flywheel is analogous to the inductance.   You can take that analogy and drop it into any circuit that you have ever built and it will work perfectly.

I know it's hard to initially wrap your head around this stuff the first go round, "A discharging inductor acts like a current source" or "A discharging inductor is like putting the brakes on a spinning flywheel."  If you want to have more understanding of what you are doing you have to try to wrap your head around it.

Let's use the water analogy for a second for electricity where the water pressure is like the voltage and the water flow is like the current.   This is a perfectly good analogy.  What's a capacitor in this analogy?  The answer is it's a big cylindrical tank with an open top with a water inlet in one side and a water outlet on the other side.  The voltage corresponds to the height of the water in the tank.  What's an inductor in this analogy?  The answer is that it's just a big coil of hose.  You might have 500 pounds worth of water circulating in the big coil of hose and that can pack some serious momentum - so much momentum that it will be nearly impossible to stop the water flow.

What is a current source using the water analogy?

To answer, let's start off with the voltage source analogy.

The voltage source would be a water pump that has a spinning impeller.  So an electric motor is connected to spinning turbine that increases the water pressure.  Say the water pump will increase the water pressure by 20 PSI for its nominal flow rate.  What happens if you block the hose?   The answer is not much, the impeller keeps spinning and the water pressure increases by perhaps 25 PSI because it is blocked but there is no water flow.

So, let's go back to the water analogy for a current source.

Imagine a big diesel engine, like from a big truck.  The engine output goes through a series of reduction gears and the output shaft turns very slowly, say one revolution per second.   That shaft drives a piston-style pump, like a car engine.  One piston draws water in by the inlet, and another piston pumps the water out the outlet.  This piston-style pump is [/font][/size]rated in gallons per minute.  You notice it is not rated in pressure, it is rated in a certain flow rate.  That's the "big secret."

So what happens when you block the water flow of the constant-flow-rate piston pump driven by a big diesel engine?  The answer is that the big diesel engine doesn't even hiccup, and the pistons keep pumping and maintain the water flow rate.  In short order the water pressure in the hose skyrockets and the hose bursts.

And that is what a discharging inductor does.  It pumps current, not voltage.  It will pump current into any battery, no matter how sulfated it is.  If it's discharging and you open-circuit it, just like the constant-flow-rate diesel engine piston pump will raise the pressure so high it will burst the hose, the inductor will raise the voltage so high it will turn the air into plasma to ensure the current flow.

So, that's the message that should be crossing the divide into your thread on EF.  The "spike" is unstoppable current flow with a certain amount of available energy to expend to maintain that current flow.  It is not "pure voltage with almost no current" - It is an unstoppable current flow where the voltage depends on the nature of the load.

If the load is a short circuit then the spike voltage is zero.

Anyway, that is the "forbidden knowledge" that you almost seem to be afraid of.  If you work and try to learn it and understand it then all of a sudden all of your experiments with coils will become much clearer and more understandable.  There is a lot of pseudoscience junk talk taking place on your thread.  It's up to you if you want to "pollinate" your mind and the minds of your peers in order to truly understand what you are doing.  I know it's difficult to grasp, but if you and your peers on EF work hard and do manage to grasp it then you will all be that much better off.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Spike
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2015, 02:40:05 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
Re: The Spike
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2015, 03:19:35 AM »
Just a little follow-up posting.

This was plucked from your thread:

Quote
When polarizing a battery with impulses of nearly pure potential and virtually no current, the battery develops its own internal charging current that did not come from the impulses... and it is not a tradeoff between voltage and current. That battery gets polarized with a high potential difference between its terminals and that polarizes the vacuum source potential around it to come into the battery and causes not only the battery to go into charging mode, but to actually give it a strong charge that is not just a voltage increase, but a load powering capacity increase.

As you can see, the quote above is a no-no.  My posts #3,4 and 6 give you the real deal on all of this battery charging stuff.  You configure your motor-based charging system (or you make measurements to see what you have) for the initial current flow and for the total amount of energy in the coil discharge.  The nature of the charging battery will determine what the observable voltage is during the coil discharge cycle and the length of the coil discharge cycle.

A highly sulfated battery will result in shorter higher-voltage current pulses going into the battery and a new battery in good condition will result in longer lower-voltage current pulses going into the battery.

As I previously stated, if you really want to know what your pulse-motor-based battery charger is doing you must put a current viewing resistor in series with the output of the coil so you can observe the initial current flow and the way the current flow decays over time.  This is more important than looking at the voltage bump on the charging battery when the coil discharges.

The real thing.

Offline minoly

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: The Spike
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2015, 04:20:59 AM »
“my” thread?  Your statement is intellectually misleading and therefore dishonest.
Not very becoming… 
 
 
Anyone reading this (I see there are one or two) take note – this proposal will kill spiky, which is exactly why it is being proposed.
 
Also, this has nothing to do with the topic in this thread, I had hoped to get into different methods to create the spike, including ways to create the biggest spike for the least amount of current, and then discuss methods to “store” it, and finally ways to use it.
With no one interested in posting, we can let this thread die out.
Bye


Just a little follow-up posting.

This was plucked from your thread:


"When polarizing a battery with [/size]impulses of nearly pure potential and virtually no current[/size], the battery develops its own internal charging current that did not come from the impulses... and it is not a tradeoff between voltage and current. That battery gets polarized with a high potential difference between its terminals and that polarizes the vacuum source potential around it to come into the battery and causes not only the battery to go into charging mode, but to actually give it a strong charge that is not just a voltage increase, but a load powering capacity increase.[/size]

As you can see, the quote above is a no-no.  My posts #3,4 and 6 give you the real deal on all of this battery charging stuff.  You configure your motor-based charging system (or you make measurements to see what you have) for the initial current flow and for the total amount of energy in the coil discharge.  The nature of the charging battery will determine what the observable voltage is during the coil discharge cycle and the length of the coil discharge cycle.

A highly sulfated battery will result in shorter higher-voltage current pulses going into the battery and a new battery in good condition will result in longer lower-voltage current pulses going into the battery.

As I previously stated, if you really want to know what your pulse-motor-based battery charger is doing you must put a current viewing resistor in series with the output of the coil so you can observe the initial current flow and the way the current flow decays over time.  This is more important than looking at the voltage bump on the charging battery when the coil discharges.

The real thing.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Spike
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2015, 04:20:59 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
Re: The Spike
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2015, 07:03:34 AM »
“my” thread?  Your statement is intellectually misleading and therefore dishonest.
Not very becoming… 
 
 
Anyone reading this (I see there are one or two) take note – this proposal will kill spiky, which is exactly why it is being proposed.
 
Also, this has nothing to do with the topic in this thread, I had hoped to get into different methods to create the spike, including ways to create the biggest spike for the least amount of current, and then discuss methods to “store” it, and finally ways to use it.
With no one interested in posting, we can let this thread die out.
Bye

Yes it is from your thread that you started on EF.  "Plucked" is a very informal term so to be more precise I got text that was actually from a quote in a posting.  It's a quote from Aaron.

What you need to understand is what is much more important.  That thing you need to understand is that the statement from Aaron is pure BS.  You now know what the spike really is.  There are no "alternative viewpoints," that's just hiding from the truth.  The spike is what it is, facts are facts.  The spike is a discharge of current from an energized coil in the from of a current source.  There is no "radiant" anything.  If you can accept that and want to inform yourself, great.  However, if you continue to use terminology that is simply not true then you are just zombie walking.

What I have done has everything to do with your thread.  If you don't understand what the spike is, how can you possibly expect to use it properly?

You now have a foundation to work from.  If you were wise you would spend a few days reading and informing yourself and researching online.  Look at real electronics information and forums, look at clips from electronics hobbyists, not from free energy researchers so you can develop a firmer and more solid foundation.  It's wake up time so you can get more out of your hobby and do better projects and better experiments.  You need to understand what you are actually observing instead of hanging a bunch of fake buzz words on what you are observing.

Offline minoly

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: The Spike
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2015, 08:17:17 AM »

It must get under your skin eh... lol if it wasn't so sad.



Yes it is from your thread that you started on EF.  "Plucked" is a very informal term so to be more precise I got text that was actually from a quote in a posting.  It's a quote from Aaron.

What you need to understand is what is much more important.  That thing you need to understand is that the statement from Aaron is pure BS.  You now know what the spike really is.  There are no "alternative viewpoints," that's just hiding from the truth.  The spike is what it is, facts are facts.  The spike is a discharge of current from an energized coil in the from of a current source.  There is no "radiant" anything.  If you can accept that and want to inform yourself, great.  However, if you continue to use terminology that is simply not true then you are just zombie walking.

What I have done has everything to do with your thread.  If you don't understand what the spike is, how can you possibly expect to use it properly?

You now have a foundation to work from.  If you were wise you would spend a few days reading and informing yourself and researching online.  Look at real electronics information and forums, look at clips from electronics hobbyists, not from free energy researchers so you can develop a firmer and more solid foundation.  It's wake up time so you can get more out of your hobby and do better projects and better experiments.  You need to understand what you are actually observing instead of hanging a bunch of fake buzz words on what you are observing.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Spike
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2015, 08:17:17 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline minoly

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: The Spike
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2015, 08:37:20 AM »
I have a question for you MH, in the spirit of cooperation and good faith.  Also, in line with the topic on this thread. You’ve been bopping about many forums as the self-proclaimed guru of text book. What are the basic factors we should consider when creating the largest spike possible for the least amount of energy? If you had to nail it down to under 10 main concerns, using a coil, what would they be?

Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13971
Re: The Spike
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2015, 08:43:07 AM »
This is what's sad:

"So I've gone ahead and try and clean things up a little bit...."



Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13971
Re: The Spike
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2015, 08:46:58 AM »
I have a question for you MH, in the spirit of cooperation and good faith.  Also, in line with the topic on this thread. You’ve been bopping about many forums as the self-proclaimed guru of text book. What are the basic factors we should consider when creating the largest spike possible for the least amount of energy? If you had to nail it down to under 10 main concerns, using a coil, what would they be?

Let me jump in here and ask you to be more precise in your terminology.

Just what do you mean by "Largest spike"? Do you mean the greatest voltage, the greatest current, the greatest area under the "curve" made by the spike on the scope (integral of voltage during the time), or something else?

What do you mean by "least amount of energy"? Do you mean energy as measured by Joules, total input to the circuit? Do you mean voltage, or current, or something else, input to the switched coil itself, or what?


Offline minoly

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: The Spike
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2015, 09:34:41 AM »
Wow! really Tinsel...   The answer to your questions - yes. You're a smart guy right... you already knew the answer to your questions...
sad, but go right ahead don't let me stop you. I know you'll continue.



Let me jump in here and ask you to be more precise in your terminology.

Just what do you mean by "Largest spike"? Do you mean the greatest voltage, the greatest current, the greatest area under the "curve" made by the spike on the scope (integral of voltage during the time), or something else?

What do you mean by "least amount of energy"? Do you mean energy as measured by Joules, total input to the circuit? Do you mean voltage, or current, or something else, input to the switched coil itself, or what?

 

OneLink