Author Topic: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building? (Read 52297 times)

MileHigh · « **Reply #30 on:** November 07, 2015, 08:45:08 AM »

Minoly:

I apologize I stand corrected on the one miliampere current draw of JB's pulse motor. When I watched the clip and heard that number I was struck by how low it was but it didn't fully register. I was not up to watching the clip a second time to check his figure. But like Brad said, that is simply way too low of a current consumption figure. We all have probably looked at hundreds of pulse motor clips and judging by size of his motor and the speed, the coil size, and the sense of how much power is being burned off to do what it does, there is no way that his motor is consuming one milliamp at 12 volts. It just doesn't fit. That is an example of the "reality disconnect."

Here is another example of a "reality disconnect" that I mentioned about two weeks ago: If you buy a hand-held digital stopwatch, or use one on your phone, the one-hundredth of a second measurement makes no sense - it's a lie. A human being is simply not capable of having a reaction time accurate down to one one-hundredth of a second. That digit is pure junk, and yet many companies that make stopwatches do that to sell more product.

You mention "perception of reality." You have to decide what is cut and dried, and what is perception when it comes to electronics and pulse motors. In electronics, it's much more of a cut and dried thing than it is a perception of reality.

Brad:

I forgot to say I watched your "zero force" motor clip and it was pretty cool how you improved the timing and cut through to the truth. Using the coil discharge to light an LED to show the rotor timing was pretty neat also. I assume you recall the trick that TK did on his MHOP series of clips to show the start and end of the ON time for the MOSFET (or was it a transistor?)

MileHigh

Lidmotor · « **Reply #31 on:** November 07, 2015, 09:01:47 AM »

I know most of you from quite a ways back so I thought that I would stop by and add what I have done on this project. I try not to take this stuff too seriously. Life is too short. Milehigh ----Hewey. Dewey. and Lewey say hi. All of them are still around. Patrick---the only reason I deleted your comment was because you have your YouTube reply button turned off and I didn't agree with what you said. I sent you a PM explaining why. Tinman ---many thanks for that old magazine link. I grew up on Popular Science and Popular Mechanics magazines. We had a book shelf full of them. You are right that we should probably put this project to rest shortly and move on. JimBoot----always a pleasure to see what you are up to. TK----I did some research on that 'Slab Motor' and got totally lost.
I adjusted the timing on my motor to where it runs much better now. Here is where I ended up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65ZthhQOUkY
Cheers. Lidmotor

MileHigh · « **Reply #32 on:** November 07, 2015, 09:03:40 AM »

I eagerly looked through the 1969 Science and Electronics magazine that Brad linked to. I was especially interested in the back pages. No Sea-Monkeys!? What the heck!?

MileHigh · « **Reply #33 on:** November 07, 2015, 09:10:04 AM »

Lidmotor:

Nice to hear that the boys are all well. And Maggie too? lol

Attached are two pictures of their brethren. If you have never seen the movie Silent Running it's really great.

MileHigh

MileHigh · « **Reply #34 on:** November 07, 2015, 09:17:44 AM »

And here is what I was really looking for in the back pages of the Science and Electronics magazine. Okay I confess, you actually saw this ad in the back pages of the comic books around 1969.

It's a "PS." That's Personal Submarine for you age-challenged.

tinman · « **Reply #35 on:** November 07, 2015, 09:23:16 AM »

Quote from: MileHigh on November 07, 2015, 08:45:08 AM

Minoly:

I apologize I stand corrected on the one miliampere current draw of JB's pulse motor. When I watched the clip and heard that number I was struck by how low it was but it didn't fully register. I was not up to watching the clip a second time to check his figure. But like Brad said, that is simply way too low of a current consumption figure. We all have probably looked at hundreds of pulse motor clips and judging by size of his motor and the speed, the coil size, and the sense of how much power is being burned off to do what it does, there is no way that his motor is consuming one milliamp at 12 volts. It just doesn't fit. That is an example of the "reality disconnect."

Here is another example of a "reality disconnect" that I mentioned about two weeks ago: If you buy a hand-held digital stopwatch, or use one on your phone, the one-hundredth of a second measurement makes no sense - it's a lie. A human being is simply not capable of having a reaction time accurate down to one one-hundredth of a second. That digit is pure junk, and yet many companies that make stopwatches do that to sell more product.

You mention "perception of reality." You have to decide what is cut and dried, and what is perception when it comes to electronics and pulse motors. In electronics, it's much more of a cut and dried thing than it is a perception of reality.

MileHigh

Quote

Brad:

I forgot to say I watched your "zero force" motor clip and it was pretty cool how you improved the timing and cut through to the truth. Using the coil discharge to light an LED to show the rotor timing was pretty neat also. I assume you recall the trick that TK did on his MHOP series of clips to show the start and end of the ON time for the MOSFET (or was it a transistor?)

I havnt watched TKs MHOP video's(i dont think),but yes,you can use the flyback to see switch off timing ,and if i wanted to see switch on timing,then i would just put an LED the opposite way around(and in series with the correct resistor)on the driven coil.

As far as efficient pulse motors go,well it's like you said-->who is measuring efficiency?. Foot pounds of torque out for watts in,i would say an axial flux pulse motor would be the most efficient at converting electrical energy into mechanical energy.

MileHigh · « **Reply #36 on:** November 07, 2015, 09:26:50 AM »

More seriously politically incorrect death machines that you could get for your kids to have fun in!!! And so cheap! Even for 1969!

MileHigh · « **Reply #37 on:** November 07, 2015, 09:31:33 AM »

Quote from: tinman on November 07, 2015, 09:23:16 AM

I havnt watched TKs MHOP video's(i dont think),but yes,you can use the flyback to see switch off timing ,and if i wanted to see switch on timing,then i would just put an LED the opposite way around(and in series with the correct resistor)on the driven coil.

Well, hopefully one day you will watch them. He does some neat tricks with an LED as a strobe scope - and shows you how to make a neutron bomb.

minoly · « **Reply #38 on:** November 07, 2015, 05:18:41 PM »

Quote from: Lidmotor on November 07, 2015, 09:01:47 AM

Patrick---the only reason I deleted your comment was because you have your YouTube reply button turned off and I didn't agree with what you said. I sent you a PM explaining why.

Cheers. Lidmotor

Nice try but you did not delete the comment, you muted it. So it appears to me it is still there but is invisible to everyone else, kind of sly passive aggressive way of excluding people. I would not have known if it was not for a friend of mine pointing it out in a conversation we had about the comment I made he could not see.

Oh, I have not received a PM from you. Also, there are plenty of people who reply to my comments all the time, I know of no method to "turn off a reply button" to my comments.
here's the comment I made:
"I'm always amazed how long you can run your builds off of a supercap. [/size]So, sorry to say this and please correct me if I misunderstand you someplace, but this is not JB's Zero Force Motor. I'm not talking about the build or some little idiosyncrasy that I'm getting hung up on. There is one reason this is not Zero Force. hint - if it was Zero Force, you would not be able to run it on that circuit you have there. cheers - Patrick"[/size]

[/size]

Lidmotor · « **Reply #39 on:** November 07, 2015, 06:07:33 PM »

Patrick--
YouTube has a funny thing going on with the comments section. A friend of mine has the same problem with people adding a comment but there is no reply button to answer back. I thought that I was deleting your comment not "muting" it. Several videos ago you made a comment without a reply button and I sent you a message back then also. The messages are at your YouTube channel. There is a way to turn your reply button back on if you want. The reason that I started to delete comments that offer no way to reply is that I thought that people were doing it intentionally. I don't think that it is fair to post comments that cannot be replied to. Sorry. Check your messages at your channel. No harm meant. We have known each other a long time.
Here is a short tutorial on how to enable your YouTube reply button:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FpoLl9r2mw
Here is a video by Ben (K4ZEP) from a year ago where you posted a comment also --with no reply button;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su-v45BsFpI

MileHigh--
Here are the 'Lads' with Maggie. I have the Bruce Dern movie Silent Running' on VHS and have watched it many times. It is a classic.

Lidmotor · « **Reply #40 on:** November 07, 2015, 07:08:36 PM »

Stefan suggested that I take a look at Ben's (K4EZP) pulse motor called the "Thomas Motor". I vaguely remember it but I am going to build one up today and look at it. He uses a ferrite toroid cored coil with a permanent magnet inside the toroid. Ben did a series of videos on it but this is the one that shows how it works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s7sM3csFHM
As I read more it seems that TK you played around a lot with this ORBO type motor. I guess this is another ancient history item that is just new to me.

Pirate88179 · « **Reply #41 on:** November 07, 2015, 07:14:24 PM »

Quote from: Lidmotor on November 07, 2015, 09:01:47 AM

I know most of you from quite a ways back so I thought that I would stop by and add what I have done on this project. I try not to take this stuff too seriously. Life is too short. Milehigh ----Hewey. Dewey. and Lewey say hi. All of them are still around. Patrick---the only reason I deleted your comment was because you have your YouTube reply button turned off and I didn't agree with what you said. I sent you a PM explaining why. Tinman ---many thanks for that old magazine link. I grew up on Popular Science and Popular Mechanics magazines. We had a book shelf full of them. You are right that we should probably put this project to rest shortly and move on. JimBoot----always a pleasure to see what you are up to. TK----I did some research on that 'Slab Motor' and got totally lost.
I adjusted the timing on my motor to where it runs much better now. Here is where I ended up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65ZthhQOUkY
Cheers. Lidmotor

Lid:

So great to see you over here. I hope all is well over there. I agree about the youtube comments being messed up. Folks have posted on my vids and...no reply button. I have even answered some folks and they pm me and tell me there was no reply button on my reply to them. Who knows what is going on over there.

I still follow all of your work and look forward to seeing more of it.

Take care,

Bill

Lidmotor · « **Reply #42 on:** November 07, 2015, 07:24:19 PM »

Hi Bill,
When YouTube went to the Google Plus it just made life more difficult. Some people got so frustrated with it they just faded away. Speaking of that has anyone heard how Jeanna is doing? I know that she went out in the wilderness a few years ago and built a small place. Her channel is still up at YouTube but not much activity.

MileHigh · « **Reply #43 on:** November 07, 2015, 08:27:24 PM »

Quote from: Jimboot on November 07, 2015, 08:35:40 AM

My pulse motor consumes 60mw at 6000RPM. Pretty good for me

Well, if you are going to take away a nugget from my postings in this thread it's to try to develop some kind of framework for what you are talking about. Your power consumption figure is meaningless without fleshing it out, creating a metric, something. And it goes full circle. That's why you have people trying to solicit money for fake free energy propositions not providing any hard or credible data. They see what the discussion is like on the forums and they figure that they can get away with it and people will believe them. Look at the case of GDS Technologies. The guy puts out a statement that you can't get energy from water, and also puts out a statement that the alleged generator needs one liter of water every four hours of run time, but he doesn't explain why.

Lidmotor:

The first time I saw Silent Running I couldn't take my eyes off of the TV. Then I had to go to my summer job and I missed the ending. It was so hard to break away from it. I read about it and it was shot on a decommissioned US aircraft carrier. It was also ahead of its time for special effects. You actually felt a loss when one of the robots gets swept off of the ship.

MileHigh

MileHigh · « **Reply #44 on:** November 07, 2015, 08:32:21 PM »

Quote from: Lidmotor on November 07, 2015, 07:24:19 PM

Hi Bill,
When YouTube went to the Google Plus it just made life more difficult. Some people got so frustrated with it they just faded away. Speaking of that has anyone heard how Jeanna is doing? I know that she went out in the wilderness a few years ago and built a small place. Her channel is still up at YouTube but not much activity.

It's fun sometimes to make "naughty" Google searches and read the links.

Examples:

I hate Google Plus
The death of Google Plus
Demise of Second Life

And the king of them all: I hate the Flash Player

News:

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