Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics

  • *Total Members: 83907
  • *Latest: Vi

  • *Total Posts: 524044
  • *Total Topics: 15602
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 4
  • *Guests: 19
  • *Total: 23

Author Topic: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?  (Read 36562 times)

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
Re: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2015, 09:40:10 PM »
I also note that if you fire the drive coils with only one of the two possible pulses per magnet pass, and you only energize the drive coils in one direction (keep it simple), then that would work out just fine with a "dumb" timing circuit.  For example, if you used the "dumb" Bediini SSG pick-up coil with the alternating magnet polarities on the rotor, you would fire say a "push" (after TDC) when the north-facing rotor magnet passes, and then a "pull" (before TDC) when the south-facing rotor magnet passes.  There is nothing special to do, it would all be automatic.  So this would give you four power pulses to the drive coil per rotor revolution, alternating a single pulse of push (after TDC), then a single pulse of pull (before TDC) for each individual magnet as it passes each end of a drive coil, with very very simple timing circuitry.  In other words, each individual magnet would see push, then pull, then push, then pull as it does a full 360 degree rotation.  Since you have four sources of driving torque on the rotor (the two drive coils) and four magnets on the rotor, it would "look like" sixteen "pulses per revolution" - with simple timing circuitry.  This would also work perfectly with the MHOP timing circuit and using the button timing magnets.

As far as the fancy double pulse per magnet pass goes, alternating the direction you actually energize the coils to give you a pull then a push, don't I always see people posting a "H bridge" circuit with an arrangement of MSOFETs that will energize a coil in one direction or the other direction based on a control signal input?  So that means the circuit to fire the drive coils in either direction is already done, and the main challenge is in implementing the timing control circuit.  However, as stated above, even a basic timing control circuit gives you the equivalent of sixteen drive pulses per revolution.

If you use the H-Bridge then you have to have a way to safely get rid of the stored energy in the collapsing magnetic fields.  I am not going to look up the circuit so I don't know how difficult or easy that is.

The creme de la creme is this:  You precisely adjust the drive voltage for the coils and the pulse timing so that a maximum of the energy supplied goes into applying drive torque to the motor, and a minimum of energy remains in the collapsing magnetic fields of the two drive coils for a given RPM.  There is nothing special about the energy in the collapsing magnetic fields and it is actually best considered mostly waste or lost battery energy.  Nor is it "radiant energy."  You go look up any electronics book and find the discussion about a coil discharging it's stored magnetic energy because current is flowing through it, and you will not find a single reference to it as being "radiant energy."  "Radiant energy" with respect to a coil discharge is just a meaningless buzz word in the realm of the forums and free energy.

Again, the most interesting challenge is to maximize the supplied battery power that actually makes the rotor spin, and to minimize the "waste" energy that you have in the collapsing magnetic field.  That a challenge that is almost never considered by a pulse motor builder, but it is very real.

Here is the reason why it is real:  The source battery energy that eventually goes to the charging battery via the collapsing magnetic field - that energy transfer is very inefficient - perhaps you will lose 40% of the source battery energy in the process of transferring.  So what's the point?  Logic says you may as well keep the energy in the source battery in the first place.  You lose too much when you go to recharge the target charging battery.  That's reality for you.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2015, 09:40:10 PM »

Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5231
Re: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2015, 11:47:05 PM »
Here is my first go at the zero force motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOdAneOt7lk

Offline minoly

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2015, 01:06:03 AM »
Here is my first go at the zero force motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOdAneOt7lk
Hey there Tinman, looks like you got the timing correct at the end of your video. Nice work!
Once I got the bipolar switch on there my power consumption was reduced even further. Alas, this is still as in many of my builds only very efficient. My toroidal design was for sure less efficient than my spool design, I got the spools down to the micro Amps.
Anyway all fun - cheers - Patrick


I mentioned earlier to everyone in an earlier post here to listen to JB and to slow his vid down to frame by frame...


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2015, 01:06:03 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Lidmotor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
Re: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2015, 01:45:40 AM »
That is great Patrick but here is John's diagram that I went by on my build.  I must have misunderstood something.  In this diagram he shows the motor being fired when the rotor magnets are in the middle of the coils.  Perhaps he just drew the timing wheel wrong.  I tried moving the reed switch to the corner like TinMan did and my motor ran better.  Configured like this the motor becomes more traditional with all four of the coil ends push/pulling on the rotor when the reed triggers.  The question then arises--why did he call it a 'zero force motor'.

Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5231
Re: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2015, 03:52:57 AM »
That is great Patrick but here is John's diagram that I went by on my build.  I must have misunderstood something.  In this diagram he shows the motor being fired when the rotor magnets are in the middle of the coils.  Perhaps he just drew the timing wheel wrong.  I tried moving the reed switch to the corner like TinMan did and my motor ran better.  Configured like this the motor becomes more traditional with all four of the coil ends push/pulling on the rotor when the reed triggers.  The question then arises--why did he call it a 'zero force motor'.

That is correct Lidmotor,John dose indeed say and show that the coil should be energized when the magnet is in the middle of the coil--this is where the term zero force came from,as he thinks there is zero magnetic field at the center of the coil. The fact is,the field(both magnetic and electric) is strongest at the center of the coil.

Anyway,im with you on this one-->enough time spent on it.
Time to move on to a different project (pulse motor of course lol).

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2015, 03:52:57 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Jimboot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1155
Re: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2015, 04:09:59 AM »
btw thanks for chiming in here Lidmotor, I really enjoy your builds.

Offline minoly

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2015, 04:51:35 AM »
That is great Patrick but here is John's diagram that I went by on my build.  I must have misunderstood something.  In this diagram he shows the motor being fired when the rotor magnets are in the middle of the coils.  Perhaps he just drew the timing wheel wrong.  I tried moving the reed switch to the corner like TinMan did and my motor ran better.  Configured like this the motor becomes more traditional with all four of the coil ends push/pulling on the rotor when the reed triggers.  The question then arises--why did he call it a 'zero force motor'.


Why did you mute me on youtube?


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2015, 04:51:35 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
Re: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2015, 04:53:32 AM »
I am still going to moan about people saying "my pulse motor is efficient."  After years of building pulse motors you need to get some creative juices flowing.   You can't possibly compare an "efficient" pulse motor with a tiny rotor that weighs a few grams with an "efficient" pulse motor with a large rotor that weighs 500 grams.  So how do you address that issue?  Nor can you just quote current consumption without also quoting the source voltage.  You should be quoting input power - that's two birds with one stone.  Measuring power consumption vs. charging battery power is another interesting measurement.

What about how efficient your own pulse motor is at a given RPM?  I think air resistance is proportional to the square or possibly the cube of the velocity.  That suggests that more watts are required per unit RPM for increasing steady-state RPMs.  You could even plot that on a graph, just record the input power at say eight different RPMs and see if you see that air resistance signature in the plot.  Something akin to the power curves that you see for real motors.

The real thing for the efficiency game is having full control over the timing and finding the perfect sweet spot for the narrowest possible pulse width and the resultant least amount of power consumed at a given RPM.  Of course moving the reed switch around is a way to accomplish this, but it has its limitations.  The MHOP analog comparitor is a more sophisticated version of a reed switch.  Of course a microcontroller approach to optimizing the timing would be the Cadillac approach.

These are things that should be considered for a major build that you want to invest real time in  - but I am not sure about the spaghetti sticking.

Offline minoly

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2015, 05:03:44 AM »
That is correct Lidmotor,John dose indeed say and show that the coil should be energized when the magnet is in the middle of the coil--this is where the term zero force came from,as he thinks there is zero magnetic field at the center of the coil. The fact is,the field(both magnetic and electric) is strongest at the center of the coil.

Anyway,im with you on this one-->enough time spent on it.
Time to move on to a different project (pulse motor of course lol).
John can speak for himself, IMHO I think he may be misunderstood. Say what he does or not the proof of how he is running it is in the frame by frame. This is how I understood it when he was speaking as well. I never imagined it any other way. I mean, what did he mean when he said the timing on the monopole is at 23 degrees right.... And........ let us not forget the force between the magnets, he draws it out as shown in lids crop of the vid there. I really don't understand the animosity i'm sensing here or perhaps i'm being too sensitive.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2015, 05:03:44 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline minoly

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2015, 05:09:39 AM »
I am still going to moan about people saying "my pulse motor is efficient."  After years of building pulse motors you need to get some creative juices flowing.   You can't possibly compare an "efficient" pulse motor with a tiny rotor that weighs a few grams with an "efficient" pulse motor with a large rotor that weighs 500 grams.  So how do you address that issue?  Nor can you just quote current consumption without also quoting the source voltage.  You should be quoting input power - that's two birds with one stone.  Measuring power consumption vs. charging battery power is another interesting measurement.

What about how efficient your own pulse motor is at a give RPM?  I think air resistance is proportional to the square or possibly the cube of the velocity.  That suggests that more watts are required per unit RPM for increasing steady-state RPMs.  You could even plot that on a graph, just record the input power at say eight different RPMs and see if you see that air resistance signature in the plot.  Something akin to the power curves that you see for real motors.

The real thing for the efficiency game is having full control over the timing and finding the perfect sweet spot for the narrowest possible pulse width and the resultant least amount of power consumed at a given RPM.  Of course moving the reed switch around is a way to accomplish this, but it has its limitations.  The MHOP analog comparitor is a more sophisticated version of a reed switch.  Of course a microcontroller approach to optimizing the timing would be the Cadillac approach.

These are things that should be considered for a major build that you want to invest real time in  - but I am not sure about the spaghetti sticking.


excellent points!
however, and i speak for myself. These are only spaghetti spinners here (meant like "spaghetti westerns") dime a dozen. When I used the word efficient, that was only to reflect it still uses energy - nothing free here.

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
Re: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2015, 05:19:23 AM »
I really don't understand the animosity i'm sensing here or perhaps i'm being too sensitive.

Lots of people have issues with JB.  For example, in his clip, let's assume the supply voltage is 24 volts or less.  Brad's motor was running on something like 170 milliamps at 12 volts (I think).  Brad's motor is somewhat comparable to JB's motor.  I think in JB's clip that he claims that his 3D-printed motor runs on a few tens of mircoamps.  I don't believe it.  It's arguable this is just "aura projection" and has nothing to do with realty.  Just like the name "zero force motor" has nothing to do with reality.

When Lidomotor makes motors that run on microamps, they are usually tiny little things on needlepoint bearings.  You would damage one if you sneezed on it.

So there is a reality disconnect for you, hence many people have issues with JB.

I and others take issue with JB's misappropriated term "radiant energy" or "radiant spike."  There is nothing "radiant" about it.  He actually does not explain to his followers what the "spike" really is, and this has been going on for years and years.  If you don't believe me just factor in the fact that I just gave a "paper napkin plus" version of a fairly sophisticated pulse motor.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2015, 05:19:23 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
Re: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2015, 05:33:15 AM »
Minoly:

If I can ask you one thing, just spend a few nights researching about how a coil discharges its stored energy.  It discharges its stored energy in the form of a decreasing current pulse, that can assume a variable voltage.  That's in contrast with how a capacitor discharges its stored energy in the form of a decreasing voltage pulse that can assume variable current.

That's the "secret" that JB keeps under wraps.  There is nothing especially unique or amazing or "radiant" about a discharging coil producing high voltage spikes into a high resistance load.  If you spend a few nights researching this issue it should all become clear:  Just like a capacitor works to maintain its voltage level, an inductor works to maintain its current level.  Therefore (fixed current x high resistance) = high voltage.  That's the real deal, it's not mysterious "radiant energy."

Please go on a Google search where you look at four, five, or six discussions of this phenomenon and I am quite certain that you will get it.  Then you are going to ask yourself how JB doesn't talk about this and draw your own conclusions.

MileHigh

Offline minoly

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2015, 06:00:06 AM »
Lots of people have issues with JB.  For example, in his clip, let's assume the supply voltage is 24 volts or less.  Brad's motor was running on something like 170 milliamps at 12 volts (I think).  Brad's motor is somewhat comparable to JB's motor.  I think in JB's clip that he claims that his 3D-printed motor runs on a few tens of mircoamps.  I don't believe it.  It's arguable this is just "aura projection" and has nothing to do with realty.  Just like the name "zero force motor" has nothing to do with reality.

When Lidomotor makes motors that run on microamps, they are usually tiny little things on needlepoint bearings.  You would damage one if you sneezed on it.

So there is a reality disconnect for you, hence many people have issues with JB.

I and others take issue with JB's misappropriated term "radiant energy" or "radiant spike."  There is nothing "radiant" about it.  He actually does not explain to his followers what the "spike" really is, and this has been going on for years and years.  If you don't believe me just factor in the fact that I just gave a "paper napkin plus" version of a fairly sophisticated pulse motor.
Brad's is running on 5 volts
JB's was running on 12 volts 1 mA
I don't need to defend him however he is only explaining things the way he sees them we can take from it what we like and move on with our own perception of reality,  or do the opposite of aura projection
I'm not sure what you mean by reality disconnect - that makes no sense to me without an explanation.
I believe we are all grown up here and can learn what we like from each other without having to proliferate animosity toward one another.








Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5231
Re: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2015, 07:00:11 AM »
Brad's is running on 5 volts
JB's was running on 12 volts 1 mA
I don't need to defend him however he is only explaining things the way he sees them we can take from it what we like and move on with our own perception of reality,  or do the opposite of aura projection
I'm not sure what you mean by reality disconnect - that makes no sense to me without an explanation.
I believe we are all grown up here and can learn what we like from each other without having to proliferate animosity toward one another.

Hi Minoly.

The animosity is because of the rubbish they tell you just so as they can make a dollar.
Example-watch the video again,and listen carefully from 3.15. Here John talks about this bloch wall that dose not exist. He also says his motor is running at 12v 1mA. No way in hell is it doing that with that fan blade attached--the whole machine is 1 big lot of wind resistance.

He clearly states that the magnets are either pulled from the center of the coil out,or pushed from the center of the coil out. He also clearly states that there is 0 field at the center of the coil,and this is just not true. You need to understand that all this fancy rubbish talk go"s toward book and kit sales in the end--this is how they make there money.

So many books of secret's,but never one straight answer in them.
The radiant energy spike they speak of is nothing more than the collapsing magnetic field around the inductor(coil). The only way that radiant can be associated with it is that the magnetic field radiates out from the coil when a current is passed through that coil. This radiated field collapses,and causes an inductive kickback spike when the current flow to the coil is disrupted--nothing more than that.

Here is something to think about-->do you think it was JB that invented the transistor switched pulse motor as claimed?
Here is a little reading for you from 1969<--yes, in 1969 plans were out there for transistor switched pulse motors.

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-Logbooks/Science-and-Electronics/Science-and-Electronics-1969-12-01.pdf

Offline Jimboot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1155
Re: JB Zero Force Motor - anyone building?
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2015, 08:35:40 AM »
I am still going to moan about people saying "my pulse motor is efficient."  After years of building pulse motors you need to get some creative juices flowing.   You can't possibly compare an "efficient" pulse motor with a tiny rotor that weighs a few grams with an "efficient" pulse motor with a large rotor that weighs 500 grams.  So how do you address that issue?  Nor can you just quote current consumption without also quoting the source voltage.  You should be quoting input power - that's two birds with one stone.  Measuring power consumption vs. charging battery power is another interesting measurement.

What about how efficient your own pulse motor is at a given RPM?  I think air resistance is proportional to the square or possibly the cube of the velocity.  That suggests that more watts are required per unit RPM for increasing steady-state RPMs.  You could even plot that on a graph, just record the input power at say eight different RPMs and see if you see that air resistance signature in the plot.  Something akin to the power curves that you see for real motors.

The real thing for the efficiency game is having full control over the timing and finding the perfect sweet spot for the narrowest possible pulse width and the resultant least amount of power consumed at a given RPM.  Of course moving the reed switch around is a way to accomplish this, but it has its limitations.  The MHOP analog comparitor is a more sophisticated version of a reed switch.  Of course a microcontroller approach to optimizing the timing would be the Cadillac approach.

These are things that should be considered for a major build that you want to invest real time in  - but I am not sure about the spaghetti sticking.
My pulse motor consumes 60mw at 6000RPM. Pretty good for me :)

 

OneLink