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Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: hoppfield on October 27, 2015, 04:59:36 PM

Title: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on October 27, 2015, 04:59:36 PM
  The video link is to my video showing where I am at build wise. With the attached image, please read the last statement that AB Hammer makes, my research shows I do not know blacksmithing. Mt 125 is not armoring, it is Bessler's drawing and a successful build will prove that Johann Bessler built working wheels.
  I have been heavily criticized for my work and one day hope to find out tinselkoala's identity as I do not support cyber bullying. He discredited work I did that has to do with this understanding of how Bessler's wheel worked.
 And as AB Hammer mentions about my naval service, I went to school for Propulsion Engineering. What he did in the Coast Guard remains a mystery.
  As for his comments that people do not ridicule me for having served in the Navy, he is referring to the constant discrimination that I have had to tolerate because of my service connected hearing loss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aCfloSpyMU
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on October 27, 2015, 05:11:53 PM
 I'll see if I can also find a thread where pirate 88179 said I owed tinselkoala an apology for taking his work. he might have actually said stealing but you did delete one thread where they pursued me. if I find it, I'll post it in here so you can see the type of people you support. and with me, it would remind me of my dad being told what to do by Germans if he was caught in town.
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on October 28, 2015, 09:57:08 PM
  There is one thing about this build that most would over look, if successful, it would be something that could be considered proof that Bessler was successful. I do have a youtube channel where I'll be posting my work. And since I am posting in a wood working forum, it does require me to improve on my skills even more.
  And on the humorous side of things, a successful build would probably make known the ridicule I tolerated in learning to understand Bessler's work.
 Even Wagner who ridiculed Bessler is known to those familiar with Bessler's work.  :-)
 I do have my own build that I am doing as well. It however might be become best known for it's arch supports. Cathedrals in Europe have problems because of the lack of lateral support. The design I am using might be something worth considering.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6p2S01II-6I2j46qVXnHXg/feed
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on October 28, 2015, 11:52:06 PM
  With this build, one expression I used was 28 sq. in. of which I was constantly harassed for using. It does have a meaning and it does have to do with this build. What 28 sq. in.'s refers to is the approximate area that 1 lb. of water would cover if it were 1 inch deep. It might actually be 27.3 cubic inches of water equals one pound of weight if someone wants to be technically correct. it also references about 0.55 oz.'s per square inch of force. Something else that needs to be known when working with water and hydraulic theory.
  By using a simple expression, then I can say 14 x 2 and know that the force in psi is about 1.1 oz. per square inch and not pounds square inch. In reality, psi might mean per square inch but since pounds or lbs. is the standard reference, it became synonymous.
  And when moving water in a pipe into a bellow, there are things that seem like they should work but won't. Myself, I've taken the time to learn these things while others have criticized me.
 And I do like my build. And unfortunately, no one will be able to claim it as their invention. As for me, my work is well documented.
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on October 29, 2015, 12:31:47 AM
  There is one sad aspect to this. Technically, pirate88179, ab hammer and tinselkoala should be given credit for this build.
 They told me to prove it. It is how they teach people. It has nothing to do with my working at it because their teaching methods require obedience to them.
 And tinselkoala, since you've never made known who you are publicly, you might only be a computer program. They do exist where they interact
with people and most people can't tell the difference. This is because they don't ask for any specific information. But you have no name and no face.
 And like ab hammer, both of you will target me because of my service connected disabilities. I think that's something people like you over looked, I'm motivated so I can keep people like you and him from ruining my life. There is a reason why I consider my hearing loss a disability and am working to change how the U.S. Veteran's Administration views hearing losses.
 And with ab hammer, I did offer to help him have his knees fixed and he said no. I let my landlord's property manager know about this and he told me that he has no meniscus in his knee. It's very painful for him and he has to work. He has a family to support. So if things work out for me, I'll see if I can't help him to have his knee(s) replaced and also some financial aid since he does have a new car payment. No reason to see his credit  hurt because he needs his knee(s) fixed, is there ?
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on October 29, 2015, 01:38:03 AM
  If anyone is wondering, in besslerwheel.com, there is a thread on how smart someone needs to be to figure one of Bessler's wheels. My answer was someone smart enough to work at it.
 I did ask ab hammer how intelligent someone needs to be to work with someone to build something like this. He says he needs money. I am going to build on my own. I have let people in a wood working forum know that there might be a wood shop in it for me and a home to have one in if I do a good job of this.
  And with Mt 125, it will be difficult for someone to discredit Bessler or myself.

                                                                                                                 Jim Lindgaard

edited to add; Chances are I may need to limit how much the bellows open so I can time it to run continuously.
                    Still, I think it will be nice to see a part of history come to life.   ;)
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on October 29, 2015, 03:23:17 PM
  The video link is to my video showing where I am at build wise. With the attached image, please read the last statement that AB Hammer makes, my research shows I do not know blacksmithing. Mt 125 is not armoring, it is Bessler's drawing and a successful build will prove that Johann Bessler built working wheels.
  I have been heavily criticized for my work and one day hope to find out tinselkoala's identity as I do not support cyber bullying. He discredited work I did that has to do with this understanding of how Bessler's wheel worked.
 And as AB Hammer mentions about my naval service, I went to school for Propulsion Engineering. What he did in the Coast Guard remains a mystery.
  As for his comments that people do not ridicule me for having served in the Navy, he is referring to the constant discrimination that I have had to tolerate because of my service connected hearing loss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aCfloSpyMU

   AB Hammer,
  This post of your from besslerwheel.com and how smart someone needs to be to realize a Bessler wheel like Mt 125. I posted work at it myself.
This is where your post about bellows in here will show in both forums you have no interest in seeing a Bessler wheel working.
  And the thread where you said I am the ultimate fraud, everyone in that thread had something in common with you, they weren't willing to build something to show Bessler was successful. So Alan, it's not just you, besslerwheel.com has many members who don't want a working Bessler wheel. It's those green dots, the ones that say you're highly regarded, status does need to be protected, doesn't it. And there have been quite a few people who asked the moderator to eliminate voting for your friends.
 And there like here, few people. And in both forums, a small group of people control it. Of course, you're also in both forums as well.
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on October 29, 2015, 03:49:50 PM
  With Mt 125, there are a few considerations. One is the pressure head. Since the bellows open inward towards
the axle, when the pressure head moves, it's height doesn't change.
  With a 1 inch diameter pipe (1" dia.), a pipe (riser pipe) 20 inches tall (20" L), it will hold about 9 oz.'s of water.
Why this matters is because a diameter of 1 inch (1"), it has a surface area of about 3/4" (0.75 square inches). This means
that the force acting on the volume of the bellow is about 12 oz.'s per square inch (12 oz./psi). And this means that
the force acting on the bellow needs to be greater than 12 ounces (12 oz.'s).
  The lower bellow really doesn't do anything when water is being moved to the top bellow. The problem is if the bellow
has a surface area of 12 inches (12 in^2, limber is often measured by the foot, it's a linear measurement that has more
than the length of the board, it's a reference).
 And when a bellow pumps, if the ratio of it's surface area to it's opening, then 3/4:12 shows how much work is required to
pump water by compression. And since 12/.75= 16, then to pump water by closing the bottom bellow would be
12 oz.'s x 16= 12 lbs. of force.
 Yet because weights drop because of gravity, no one thinks that a pump can work more efficiently by drawing water upwards
when in this instance, it can. And when someone realizes this, then they can consider the work being performed by a lever
dropping and the shift in force by the force of water in a bellow being shifted from one side of the wheel to the other. And if
someone is willing to do some basic math and calculate leveraged force and the volume of a bellow both open and closed, it's
not that difficult, it does take some time working at it though.

p.s., the symbol in the drawing most likely is a reference to Freemasons who require a belief in God
     to be a member. It could be Bessler's way of saying believe.
 
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on October 30, 2015, 06:47:56 AM
   The 2 pictures shows some of what it takes to build something like this. Since I am using plastic as a water
  barrier, I do need to make sure it is strong enough. With the other picture, the movable part of the bellow
  is shown. I will need to remake those so they align properly with the where the "hinge" will be mounted.
   And when I finish this part, then I will need to make the trim pieces that will secure the plastic and it's 
 covering to the bellows. I do plan on this working which is why I am taking the time to do it right. And once
 the bellows are fully assembled, I will be able to test them. That's the part that I am looking forward to. I am
 hoping I'll be able to get a lot done this weekend.
  And the cut outs in the plywood the bellow assembly sitting on is my own build that I am doing It relies on
 conservation of momentum. It's something that if it works will be a slow roller at best. I have to make arch supports
 for that build. The link is to where I have been posting that build in a wood working forum.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f13/motion-machine-110609/
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on October 30, 2015, 07:11:10 PM
 Between last night and this morning, I made some new parts for my bellows. They'll be the part that moves.
 The black lines show where I'll need to do a little trimming on my mini-router table. After that, the retainers for
 the leather outer shell and it's lining will need to be made. I think it'll look pretty cool when I'm finished with it.  :-)
  And this is kind of why I've put the time and money into this that I have.
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on October 31, 2015, 02:12:23 AM
  The parts shown in the picture are the new parts I made for the bellows. I have them trimmed and routed.
 The routing part allows for a seat for the retainer for the bellow materials. I have prepped the retainers for using #6 screws but may use 3/16 (5mm) dowels instead.
  I will do some destructive testing to see which allows for the strongest seal. And the wire in the picture is a guitar string. With guitar strings, their gauge is actually the diameter in .001 increments of an inch. I may need to use 2 guitar strings to create a proper seal that will hold up.
  I almost find it funny that if it wasn't for my medical hardship, I doubt I would have tolerated the harassment I had to in order to build this. Still, this could be my last build for that reason. As much as I like Bessler's work, the
experts don't get it.

edited toad; uploaded the wrong pic but will show all the parts I have so far that goes into the bellows, so far. I still need to make a few more.  :-)

p.s., the wood pieces with the holes drilled in them will each make 2 retainers for the materials I am using for the bellows. I'll need to separate the parts using my mini-table router. The wood is 1 1/2" wide and the retainers will be between 3/8th's and 7/16th's wide.

  There are 2 things about my showing my work, one is everyone knows what I am doing and 2, if it works, then everyone will know what it takes to build one if they want to try the same build.
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 31, 2015, 02:20:45 AM
Excellent.  Keep doing this and stop attacking folks and you will be fine.

I hope your design works.

Bill
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on October 31, 2015, 03:29:18 AM
Excellent.  Keep doing this and stop attacking folks and you will be fine.

I hope your design works.

Bill

 
   Bill,
  You don't. Read your Heron's Fountain thread.  I like what you say about me, everybody sees right through me. And if anyone reads what I said to Fatbird about you, this is it; Myself, I would recommend people take Bill's suggestion and try this.

  What am I missing Bill ? After all, you also accused me of trash talking, etc. and that's after I posted I recommend people follow your suggestion.
  I think that's attacking someone.

   FatBird,
  The picture you show is from a vidoe you posted. The things shown in the video are not possible.
What they are meant for is to encouracge discussions by people like your self who find them interesting.
 The simplest possible pm device is one that would be based on Heron's Fountain.
 There is a reason why it is called a fountain. In order for it to have this name means that 2,000 years ago,
it would have to have shot water into the air just as a fountain does today.
 What everyone seems to miss is that under pressure, there is no difference between the effects of watr and air except for corrosion.
 Myself, I would recommend people take Bill's suggestion and try this. If it works using water to create air pressure to pump water, then it should work with water presure creating air pressure to pump water. It really is the same thing between pneumatics and hydraulics. It's just that for performing work, hydraulics is more efficient.
 All I can say to you FatBird is to try it. You may be surprised by the outcome and what you might learn.
 But then, there are people more knowledgeable than myself. I mean really, what does it take to calcualte r^2Pi= surface area ? it is nothing new and when combined with h (height), then flow can be determined. it really is centuries old. But today, trying something is going against your friends.
 I am not sure why but ask your friends and they will tell you. Also, it could be Heron didn't have any friends just like Archimedes and his contemporary Pythoras.
 And no, don't ask me about the pythogorean theorem because I know nothing about heresy.
 I prefer to deal with facts, just sk my friwend  8)
 




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Re: Heron's Fountain

« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2012, 07:29:59 AM »


Quote

 



Why do you persist to try to derail folks that are actually doing real experiments here?  If you are not intelligent enough to follow along, i can understand that but, please stop with the trash talk.  We do not put up with that here....you get me?  If you want to contribute something constructive, that is fine...but trashing me and TK is NOT constructive.  Post YOUR fountain that you claim is OU.  Where is it?  Oh...you can't make it but it works right?  Everyone here sees right through you so...please give it up.

Bill
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on October 31, 2015, 04:22:54 AM
 This is a build I would discourage someone from doing. bellows are allowed to leak. With this build, that's not acceptable.
 There are different ways this could be built. Using denim or the blue jeans you wear, once wet, they become air tight. To
 understand this, tie some knots in your pant's legs and pull them through water. You can float on them. They're life preservers in a literal way.
  Yet to draw water upward, a seal is needed. If not, then air enters the system and water isn't lifted. A typical manual well pump
  relies on vacuum. Without it, the piston in the pump would move upward while the water remains at it's same level.
   And with sealing something that has a load placed on it, the more ridges the better. This simply means that 2 flat parts
  will probably leak. If there are grooves r ridges that increase the amount of mating surface area (think geodesic dome), the chances
of a leak decrease.
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: SoManyWires on October 31, 2015, 04:40:39 AM
there is something admirable when anyone attempts to redefine previous  and current understanding.
if they are not hurting anyone or themselves and can find some enjoyment in the process, these are the people that deserve to be encouraged to continue with their efforts.

the studying invention motivated experimenter understands that if they make a breakthrough, it will be due to the result of their interpretation being from a different angle of design approach.
one should develop a filter for critical evaluations offered freely by outside influences, being able to filter the useful flow of knowledge they might actually be offering, or at least knowing that is how a critic prefers to be understood.

critics will always see things from their individual and sometimes shared points of view, some are based on practical research, others more based on opinion.
for example: after a caveman invented a wheel, a group of other cavepeople decided to focus on developing a lever to act as a braking system, so no one else would end up injured beyond repair like the original wheel designer was after a practical education in the effects of gravity moments after testing the new method of transportation using a hill.

there are some professional armchair critics that have never attempted to play on a field though, they can be found yelling at their tv screens mostly.
they could've scored that goal, they are usually sure of it.
they could've played a better role than some other actor they just watched on a tv show or at the movies, and are usually very good at trivia.
they race to be first in lines, skip the of idea racing ahead so they can offer to hold doors open for other people, and anyone who knows them, usually would not rely on them to want to change their tune.

there some good critics though too, they wont be found yelling at anyone to jump, instead they will try to be supportive, understanding that emotions can sometimes run high for a critic and for the less critical.
those critics know that there is much they themselves do not know, even if they can hit home runs more often than other teamplayers.
they know they could easily end up in a twisted wreck trying to push the limits of a funnycar at the time trials, so they never make such attempts at developing such a driving skill to be successful outside of baseball.
they are competitive though and want to win, and this motivation can be noticed in just about every occupational field.

sports is entertainment for most people, or a good excuse to get off the couch and go down the street to the park and throw a frisbee around or something.

most people do not have little labs set up in their garages and basements built to evaluate and or redefine theories about physics!
this is rare.
though if safety is always paramount, these are the teamplayers humanity can definitely appreciate for the useful results that raise the bar for the quality of life or making it last longer for everyone.

therefore, if you enjoy your research, please continue as you will seeing things from your own point of view, and understand that that ability might be considered a gift, even if you sometimes are seen and feel like a moth on a window screen, trying to get to a light source.

all the best
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on October 31, 2015, 04:50:41 AM
there is something admirable when anyone attempts to redefine previous  and current understanding.
if they are not hurting anyone or themselves and can find some enjoyment in the process, these are the people that deserve to be encouraged to continue with their efforts.

the studying invention motivated experimenter understands that if they make a breakthrough, it will be due to the result of their interpretation being from a different angle of design approach.
one should develop a filter for critical evaluations offered freely by outside influences, being able to filter the useful flow of knowledge they might actually be offering, or at least knowing that is how a critic prefers to be understood.

critics will always see things from their individual and sometimes shared points of view, some are based on practical research, others more based on opinion.
for example: after a caveman invented a wheel, a group of other cavepeople decided to focus on developing a lever to act as a braking system, so no one else would end up injured beyond repair like the original wheel designer was after a practical education in the effects of gravity moments after testing the new method of transportation using a hill.

there are some professional armchair critics that have never attempted to play on a field though, they can be found yelling at their tv screens mostly.
they could've scored that goal, they are usually sure of it.
they could've played a better role than some other actor they just watched on a tv show or at the movies, and are usually very good at trivia.
they race to be first in lines, skip the of idea racing ahead so they can offer to hold doors open for other people, and anyone who knows them, usually would not rely on them to want to change their tune.

there some good critics though too, they wont be found yelling at anyone to jump, instead they will try to be supportive, understanding that emotions can sometimes run high for a critic and for the less critical.
those critics know that there is much they themselves do not know, even if they can hit home runs more often than other teamplayers.
they know they could easily end up in a twisted wreck trying to push the limits of a funnycar at the time trials, so they never make such attempts at developing such a driving skill to be successful outside of baseball.
they are competitive though and want to win, and this motivation can be noticed in just about every occupational field.

sports is entertainment for most people, or a good excuse to get off the couch and go down the street to the park and throw a frisbee around or something.

most people do not have little labs set up in their garages and basements built to evaluate and or redefine theories about physics!
this is rare.
though if safety is always paramount, these are the teamplayers humanity can definitely appreciate for the useful results that raise the bar for the quality of life or making it last longer for everyone.

therefore, if you enjoy your research, please continue as you will seeing things from your own point of view, and understand that that ability might be considered a gift, even if you sometimes are seen and feel like a moth on a window screen, trying to get to a light source.

all the best

  Nothing personal, but you would be amazed at how much Bessler knew. The guy was smart. And in today's terms ?
 He'd still be smart. I think this is something a lot of people over look. After all, William Shakespeare is one of the more
 famous playwrights and he lived in the 1400's. With Bessler, he had an advantage, they were called Newton and Leibniz.

p.s., Leibniz watched a Bessler wheel for a couple of hours. From a scientific perspective, Newton might have been
          the only better reference.
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on October 31, 2015, 08:23:21 AM
  Bill,
 I'm not going to post any more work in here. You and AB Hammer can have the forum.

edited to add; Bill, I think it's funny that neither of you could say you were only talking
                    trash because perpetual motion is not possible. Anyone who would check out
                    any of my previous threads would see I was pursuing perpetual motion.
                     Other people in here posted they thought it was funny. It could be my thinking
                   perpetual motion was funny and not the trash talking I had to tolerate.
                       In a way, that is funny But in AB Hammer's Air Bubble Machine thread, if he would've been willing
                    to discuss that in more detail, we probably could have realized Mt 125 at that time even though we
                    might not have realized that it was Bessler's wheel at that time.
                       If you check his thread, I suggested using collapsing weights which is about what a bellow is. And yes,
                    we probably could have made working perpetual motions at that time, gotten some patents and made some
                    money. His own thread would show I tried working with him as business partners and co-inventors.
                     And that's why I'm building Mt 125 today. No one can claim I'm stealing their invention or anything else. And if
                    someone wants to talk trash and waste more of my time kind of like what you're doing now, it takes a lot to build
                    something like this. Making bellows that don't leak requires me to design them myself. But I don't think but a few
                    people have been committed to doing involved builds of this type.
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: AB Hammer on October 31, 2015, 04:17:30 PM
  There is one sad aspect to this. Technically, pirate88179, ab hammer and tinselkoala should be given credit for this build.
 They told me to prove it. It is how they teach people. It has nothing to do with my working at it because their teaching methods require obedience to them.
 And tinselkoala, since you've never made known who you are publicly, you might only be a computer program. They do exist where they interact
with people and most people can't tell the difference. This is because they don't ask for any specific information. But you have no name and no face.
 And like ab hammer, both of you will target me because of my service connected disabilities. I think that's something people like you over looked, I'm motivated so I can keep people like you and him from ruining my life. There is a reason why I consider my hearing loss a disability and am working to change how the U.S. Veteran's Administration views hearing losses.
 And with ab hammer, I did offer to help him have his knees fixed and he said no. I let my landlord's property manager know about this and he told me that he has no meniscus in his knee. It's very painful for him and he has to work. He has a family to support. So if things work out for me, I'll see if I can't help him to have his knee(s) replaced and also some financial aid since he does have a new car payment. No reason to see his credit  hurt because he needs his knee(s) fixed, is there ?

Lindgaard

 I don't want or need any help from you. I am fully covered by the VA for I am a disabled Veteran.

Now as for your attempt at MT125. I hope you have a lot of fun with your build. Don't hold your breath on it running for it holds the same problem and over 99% of wheels built. What a good builder should be looking into is that less than 1% of possibilities, but there are still lessons to learn in the 99% of designs. 
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on October 31, 2015, 07:08:48 PM
Lindgaard

 I don't want or need any help from you. I am fully covered by the VA for I am a disabled Veteran.

Now as for your attempt at MT125. I hope you have a lot of fun with your build. Don't hold your breath on it running for it holds the same problem and over 99% of wheels built. What a good builder should be looking into is that less than 1% of possibilities, but there are still lessons to learn in the 99% of designs.

   Alan,
  I don't consider you a builder. As for what I am working on, I will mention your posts discrediting Bessler's drawings. I am tired of it.
 Kind of why I posted the Background Radiation Conversion Concept. If pirate88179 and tinselkoala can't prove it wrong, then I will be able
 to show where the 3 of you don't consider the science behind something.
 By the way, how many times have I told you that one of Bessler's drawing was his proof ? I think besslerwheel.com is a good example of
 why he had proof among his drawings. Too many people in that forum would patent it as their invention.
  With me, I am disappointed I haven't been allowed to discuss the engineering behind what Bessler knew.

edited to add; ab hammer, if this works, I'll be able to call you my Wagner. After all, then it would be considered that you passed up an opportunity to make money. I'm not like you. I could use improved financial circumstances.

edited to add; ab hammer, the attached image is the payment I receive for my service connected disability.
                   I doubt you are a disabled veteran because you have posted that a rating of 30% is required before
                  the V.A. will allow a veteran to receive disability payments. And since I have been kept from having
                  a family because of my service connected hearing loss, am tired of people with normal hearing or who
                  have had support for a hearing loss thinking they know everything.   Kind of why there is a word called
                  discrimination in our vocabulary.   :D  It didn't come about by accident.
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: AB Hammer on November 01, 2015, 01:34:36 AM
Hay Lindgarrd

To put to rest some more of your BS about what I am supposed to not be. Here is proof of that I am a disabled Veteran but I had to erase the numbers and bar off for security reason.

Note below my picture. VA healthcare enrollee, SERVICE CONNECTED

Now leave this alone for it does not belong in this forum!


Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on November 01, 2015, 03:40:38 AM
Hay Lindgarrd

To put to rest some more of your BS about what I am supposed to not be. Here is proof of that I am a disabled Veteran but I had to erase the numbers and bar off for security reason.

Note below my picture. VA healthcare enrollee, SERVICE CONNECTED

Now leave this alone for it does not belong in this forum!




  That's not my problem. I'm building. And it is a violation of forum rules to say I am building a perpetual motion device and believe it will work. That's strange because in a wood working forum, no harassment. None.
  And if you remember, I am building so I will not have to tolerate discrimination. And even though you don't think I can be successful, I am building and you are not.

edited to add; you showed me yours so I am showing you mine. if you notice, mine has
                    a bigger American flag on it. As for what belongs in this forum, harassing someone who builds
                    seems to go against the purpose of this forum. I'd have to wonder why that's considered
                    a violation of forum rules, you know, doing an open build.

                 And ab hammer,  You have pictures and videos of something. As you say, you do not share   information. Can't work with someone who is a private builder. You know that is my policy.
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: PIH123 on November 01, 2015, 06:22:17 AM
Hey Alan, Remember me ?
I discussed stuff with you rationally back in the day on the discovery sites
(Pete H on American Chopper etc)

I love your work with armor and your other creations.
While I might not agree with you on gravity devices,
I think we are on the same page with this individual.

Obviously, don't sweat it.
He is not smart enough to figure out where any of us are.
He has made that very clear in ALL of his postings.
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on November 01, 2015, 02:29:16 PM
Hey Alan, Remember me ?
I discussed stuff with you rationally back in the day on the discovery sites
(Pete H on American Chopper etc)

I love your work with armor and your other creations.
While I might not agree with you on gravity devices,
I think we are on the same page with this individual.

Obviously, don't sweat it.
He is not smart enough to figure out where any of us are.
He has made that very clear in ALL of his postings.

   Phi,
    AB Hammer lives in Homer, La.  That's not the issue.
   Since Mt 125 is a Bessler wheel, it's Bessler's. ab hammer does not think I have the
  right to exclude him from my build. It's pretty much that simple.
   And as he has said many times, he is a private builder and does not share information.
  And I'll check, you think perpetual motion is not possible and therefore has no potential value.
 ab hammer would disagree with you about that..
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: AB Hammer on November 01, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
Hey Alan, Remember me ?
I discussed stuff with you rationally back in the day on the discovery sites
(Pete H on American Chopper etc)

I love your work with armor and your other creations.
While I might not agree with you on gravity devices,
I think we are on the same page with this individual.

Obviously, don't sweat it.
He is not smart enough to figure out where any of us are.
He has made that very clear in ALL of his postings.

Greetings again PIH123

Yes it is good to have productive conversation even if we may no agree. I kinda miss the American Chopper show. When I get over these operations that are still to come. I have a 1955 Triumph that I will be building on for my first full bike build. As for wheels I have one under reconstruction for a shifting timing problem. I released it and it made a full round and faster the second round and after the third round the shiftier tried to shift to soon and cause it no to make the forth round. The new alterations will be done before Christmas and I may be showing the video.

Lindgaard does know I live in Homer LA for we use to have good conversation until he got a bit out of self control. As for his card being different? Lindgaard has the old card. Those who where 50% or greater disability where change first to the new card. The flag size statement was lame. LOL

Alan

Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: massive on November 01, 2015, 08:32:35 PM
over unity type forums are one of the only forums where fighting breaks out between complete strangers ....it doesnt make sense to me  ???

no one should have to resort to proving who they are or if they are a veteran , thats personal info and doesnt belong.

theres some top talent on this site . a few days ago I saw pics of scale model engines = jaw dropping
there electronics guys who know their stuff.

Ive never met Bessler , safe to say no one has . If some one wants to build a bessler wheel , its of benefit to us ALL , simply because someone some where is building  ...... the rest of us dont have to.

my hat goes off to everyone whos building some thing no matter what it is . its in people to create some thing.


hearding cats is pointless , I say let everyone go in what ever direction


Bessler ?    I simply dont know ......

Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on November 03, 2015, 05:33:39 PM
over unity type forums are one of the only forums where fighting breaks out between complete strangers ....it doesnt make sense to me  ???

no one should have to resort to proving who they are or if they are a veteran , thats personal info and doesnt belong.

theres some top talent on this site . a few days ago I saw pics of scale model engines = jaw dropping
there electronics guys who know their stuff.

Ive never met Bessler , safe to say no one has . If some one wants to build a bessler wheel , its of benefit to us ALL , simply because someone some where is building  ...... the rest of us dont have to.

my hat goes off to everyone whos building some thing no matter what it is . its in people to create some thing.


hearding cats is pointless , I say let everyone go in what ever direction


Bessler ?    I simply dont know ......

   Massive,
  Some people believe that a working perpetual motion invention is worth millions of dollars. While I don't share this belief there are those that want to be first in line. If you consider Sutter's Mill in California, he discovered gold in California. A Gold Rush was on. With perpetual motion, that mentality is at the fore front of what some people are about. And if it's not worth the millions people say, they still want the credit.
 And if you look at my last post in Mt 125 Build links, I have 3 different builds that I am doing. I haven't seen anyone else show a build in progress. I think a part of the reason I am building is so my education won't be wasted.

                                                                                       Jim

edited to add; massive,
 pirate88179, ab hammer and myself have all talked on the phone before, about 9 years ago. and in those 9 years, I haven't seen either one post an open perpetual motion machine build that I am aware of. And today when I checked my mailbox, a wood working magazine was in it. It seems about any time I think Jesus hates me, one shows up in my mailbox.
 And I guess if more people understood the mechanics or engineering behind Bessler's work, they might think about the different builds they could do and what woods/finishes as well. It would be a unique form of wood working but then Bessler was a wood worker himself.   :D
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on November 03, 2015, 07:20:09 PM
   @All,
  I'll explain some of the math behind 2 of my builds. This will be based on a 20" radius.
  The weight moving from bottom center (BDC or 180 degrees) to top center (TDC or 0) degrees) will
 travel a distance if 62.84".
  If the weight moving down becomes over balanced at the 3 o'clock (90 degrees after top dead center or ATDC)
 and is over balanced by 2", it travels 31.42" + 34.562 = 65.982.
  And because a weight rotating 90 degrees essentially requires the energy it generated to be moved back into it's starting position, there is no gain. So it wouldn't work. And what is being over looked is if the weight becomes over balanced above the level of the axle.
  If it's retraction does not start until the weight is level with the axle, then the drop above the level of the axel should be extra or free energy.
  I'm not sure how much anyone likes math or science but the drop vs. the curvature of a weight's path will affect
 f = a(d*t). And in a simple design, this should accurately project the velocity of rotation of a perpetual motion machine. And if the rate of entropy is known, then it might be known before building if there is much of a chance of a design working.  But from what I have seen, math such as this is usually ignored.

edited to add; and since I do build, math does help me to consider the mechanics that I use. Even releasing a weight held in place by a tab requires energy to be expended. And if done poorly, a lot of energy could be wasted.
And this is where with the 2 similar looking builds, on one of themI have redesigned the way the weights are retracted to use the least amount of energy possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyGU_UY-Z9w
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: massive on November 04, 2015, 12:42:25 AM
I dont know actual dates of Bessler , does he predate watch making etc

Bessler name would not be remembered if he didnt do something

we live in the most corrupt time in history , will history record the mountain of names of crooks in operation today ?

so was Bessler a crook ?    .........all because of a wooden wheel ?    I dont think so , there must be something to it


you want to attempt to recreate something , have a crack at it .... if you can prove he was a scam artist even then your doing something no one has even bothered to do.
 if you can prove theres some genuine physics behind it , your doing something .
either way your gonna find out firsthand

best of luck
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on November 04, 2015, 01:30:58 AM
I dont know actual dates of Bessler , does he predate watch making etc

Bessler name would not be remembered if he didnt do something

we live in the most corrupt time in history , will history record the mountain of names of crooks in operation today ?

so was Bessler a crook ?    .........all because of a wooden wheel ?    I dont think so , there must be something to it


you want to attempt to recreate something , have a crack at it .... if you can prove he was a scam artist even then your doing something no one has even bothered to do.
 if you can prove theres some genuine physics behind it , your doing something .
either way your gonna find out firsthand

best of luck

   massive,
  In besslerwheel.com, there was a fight. A well respected member whose log on is jim_mich started a thread saying ban Jim. AB Hammer joined him. There was actually a fight whether or not I should have been allowed to post in the forum.
 AB Hammer and jim_mich won. Why people supported me was because I was building. I would try to explain some of what Bessler showed in his drawings with actual builds. Those who supported me did so because they wanted to learn more about Bessler's drawings. At besslerwheel.com, they are routinely discredited.
 With me, it is a 2 part equation. One part of it, I am bringing Bessler's work to life. The 2nd part is that I am letting people know that there is much to be learned from his drawings.
 Too many people think of perpetual motion as magic when it's engineering. As for the value in Bessler's work or perpetual motion, it's not a winning lottery ticket.
 And with Mt 125, Heron's Fountain could help to understand flow rates which is quite important. A lot of people think there is nothing to moving water through a pipe but even then, there is a science to that. Kind of why Bessler's work hasn't been realized.

                                                                                      Jim

p.s., I am very biased towards Bessler  :-D
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: AB Hammer on November 04, 2015, 02:10:06 AM
   massive,
  In besslerwheel.com, there was a fight. A well respected member whose log on is jim_mich started a thread saying ban Jim. AB Hammer joined him. There was actually a fight whether or not I should have been allowed to post in the forum.
 AB Hammer and jim_mich won. Why people supported me was because I was building. I would try to explain some of what Bessler showed in his drawings with actual builds. Those who supported me did so because they wanted to learn more about Bessler's drawings. At besslerwheel.com, they are routinely discredited.
 With me, it is a 2 part equation. One part of it, I am bringing Bessler's work to life. The 2nd part is that I am letting people know that there is much to be learned from his drawings.
 Too many people think of perpetual motion as magic when it's engineering. As for the value in Bessler's work or perpetual motion, it's not a winning lottery ticket.
 And with Mt 125, Heron's Fountain could help to understand flow rates which is quite important. A lot of people think there is nothing to moving water through a pipe but even then, there is a science to that. Kind of why Bessler's work hasn't been realized.

                                                                                      Jim

p.s., I am very biased towards Bessler  :-D

massive

 James Lindgaard tends to be very one sided. The reason jim_mich  did such is the Jim/James Lindgaard has already been banned several time before. Each time causing trouble. So you have to ask. How many time does someone have to be banned to stay banned? The real question when it deals with James Lindgaard.
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on November 04, 2015, 02:24:06 AM
massive

 James Lindgaard tends to be very one sided. The reason jim_mich  did such is the Jim/James Lindgaard has already been banned several time before. Each time causing trouble. So you have to ask. How many time does someone have to be banned to stay banned? The real question when it deals with James Lindgaard.

   AB Hammer,
   I think Stefan needs to ban you. You admitted to creating a false I.D. to try and prevent my being banned from woodworkingtalk.com. And now you are trying to rally support for my being banned from this forum.
 I hope Stefan reads this and understands that you don't care to work with other people.
 What it is you want, who knows but it's not anyone else's problem but your own.

                                                                                   James A. Lindgaard
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on November 04, 2015, 03:18:48 AM
  Since this is my Mt 125 thread supporting Johann Bessler's work in perpetual motion, I wish I knew some calculus. It would help to explain this. I do know with a working wheel, if I wanted to highlight some possible information I learned from Bessler's drawings, it would be given consideration. Myself, I don't know calculus so we'll have to struggle along, sorry.
  With water, if anyone watches a video of Heron's Fountain, water leaving the fountain has a specific velocity and volume. And contrary to what people believe, it is not being pushed out by any means. It is being siphoned out and that's much easier. Mt 125 uses the same principle, it's a difference in pressure. And with Heron's Fountain, we see what a difference in pressure allows for.
  With Mt 125, the best situation is for the bellows to have moved 1/2 of the movable water when moving from 45 degrees BTDC and TDC. If this happens, then when the bellows are at top and bottom center, they will be counter balanced.
 I guess with me, kind of wish a few more people in here got into the math of it. it is different but if anyone ever wants to build something like this, it would be helpful to know.

                                                                                                       Jim 

edited to add; top and bottom center with bellows is something I consider when looking at the riser pipe joining them together.
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: sm0ky2 on November 04, 2015, 03:55:07 AM
Hoppy,

great work on your wheel so far, I hope you keep us informed on your progress.

I've read your posts about some of the other members on this forum,
and I was present when you posted in that other thread.. im not sure why you hold such hostility towards them,
all I saw was they were trying to help you.
The people you are talking bad about, are probably the most capable of assisting you in furthering your efforts.
Those three alone have offered more to our field of research than Bessler himself.

I've been here for a very long time, and worked along side these people through hundreds of designs, builds, concepts.
Each of them has their own areas of expertise and collectively can get to the bottom of just about anything.
It might be better to just let it go, and get back to work on the ultimate goal. (whatever that may be for each person)
We are already "socially unacceptable" because of what we do here goes against mainstream society.
There's really no need to engage in combat amongst ourselves. the name calling, or the who is what, or the you don't know who I think I am...
It's all pointless and only serves to distract us from our purpose here.



As far as a free energy device being worth millions? That's not really the case. It will COST billions, if not trillions to a number of industries.
Everything will have to adjust to the existence of such a device. The  energy industry as a whole
will collapse, gas, oil, electricity, etc. same for transportation and shipping
The food industry will take a huge hit because of the bio investments.
I could go on, but the point is, it will cost much more than anyone would ever make attempting to mass produce and sell said device.

the "millions" people chase after, and some actually attain, - is the "hush money". Big companies will buy a patent, intending to shelf the technology, and never release it. Spending a couple million bucks to protect billions, kind of a no-brainer.  But the people that chase this money are doing it for greedy purposes, and that really has no place here. If you want a patent, and make money, you're probably better off inventing something useful and easier to achieve.
This thing we pursue, is a lot of hard work, and there's no money in it, even when we succeed. What we get, will be worth more than all the money in the world.


This industry will always have opposition. In many ways, Thermodynamic theory is like a Religion. Some will fight to the death for opposing it.
There are the educationally indoctrinated, the industry spies, the just plain confrontational people who really have no clue but will argue with you to the end as if they know everything that is ever to be known.
Don't let this discourage you, let it be your motivation.
And try to differentiate between those, and the good-intended people that want to educate you and help you progress.
Much of what you are doing has already been done. Take the time to read through the many Bessler threads on this forum, you can save yourself a lot of headache, and probably learn a few things.

And remember, when someone doesn't agree with you, or perhaps they point out a flaw in your design, and try to teach you about physics, mechanics, gravity, etc.
------  Most of them have already been where you are.

Keep working, don't ever give up, even if something doesn't work, at the very least, you learned WHY it didn't work. and can use that experience in your next quest.


My opinion:
Bessler was an interesting character, but im not convinced that he ever had a working device. There are just as many stories of fraud as there are of success when it comes to him.   and my personal experience with his wheels, is that many of them do NOT work. and for reasons that are often obvious even before the attempted build. That's not to say he didn't have one that DID work, but for me, I never made it through all of them. The ones I played with don't work.
The thing with gravity is it's conservative, much like momentum.
Unless you have a mechanism to offset the effect on one side or the other, the "up / down" of the situation is always perfectly symmetrical.
 any vertical displacement that occurs comes at the exact same cost as the gain.
You can "believe" something works all you want to, but unless you design an engine that runs on faith, you're not going to get very far.

I don't do this because I "believe" something will work. I've seen enough to KNOW that our ultimate goal is in fact attainable, regardless of how physics will choose to describe the final effect, in accordance to commonly accepted theories. which they will do.
the WickyWheel was a perfect example of this. A well documented, working PM device, which was shared throughout colleges around the U.S.
several capillary tubes were placed into a bowl of water, and the drops coming out the top turned a small water-wheel, dumping the water back into the bowl.
Physicists came out with a scientific analysis to show how it "conformed to thermodynamics", and it has all but disappeared. Everyone forgot about the fact that the wheel keeps turning..... And I imagine that a similar thing will happen to any device that ends up working.
The Self-fulfilling prophecy of Perpetual Motion. But "free energy" does exists.

If you see something and think it could work, the best thing to do is exactly what you are doing - Build it.
Then you'll know, it either works, doesn't work, or you need to improve your building skills.








Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on November 04, 2015, 04:06:39 AM
   sm0ky2,
  Chances are that AB Hammer is a complete fraud. In our world, there are over 7 billion people. Most scientists are doubtful that life as we know it can survive with such a population. If you want reality, the best that can be done is to work at things. There is no miracle panacea.

                                                                                                       Jim Lindgaard

edited to add; sm0ky, the reality is, I don't know who tinselkoala is and ab hammer has admitted to using a fraudulent account. I've always have been known. As for pirate88179, it is possible he is thinking ab hammer has taken advantage of his trust.
 Still, people supporting ab hammer blindly has caused me problems. When I said that the Richmond Police Dept. knows about Alan Bauldree, this includes the Madison Co. Sherriff's Dept. and the Kentucky State Patrol. He is known where I live. I'm not sure what to say sm0ky because I have made it known to local law enforcement that he was stalking me. His admitting to having posted on woodworkingtalk.com proves that. It also let's law enforcement in Kentucky know that when I was frustrated beyond belief, it is because I was being stalked. He admitted to it.
 And now instead of law enforcement watching me, they'll be watching him. And for me, that is a relief.
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: AB Hammer on November 04, 2015, 01:56:42 PM
   sm0ky2,
  Chances are that AB Hammer is a complete fraud. In our world, there are over 7 billion people. Most scientists are doubtful that life as we know it can survive with such a population. If you want reality, the best that can be done is to work at things. There is no miracle panacea.

                                                                                                       Jim Lindgaard

edited to add; sm0ky, the reality is, I don't know who tinselkoala is and ab hammer has admitted to using a fraudulent account. I've always have been known. As for pirate88179, it is possible he is thinking ab hammer has taken advantage of his trust.
 Still, people supporting ab hammer blindly has caused me problems. When I said that the Richmond Police Dept. knows about Alan Bauldree, this includes the Madison Co. Sherriff's Dept. and the Kentucky State Patrol. He is known where I live. I'm not sure what to say sm0ky because I have made it known to local law enforcement that he was stalking me. His admitting to having posted on woodworkingtalk.com proves that. It also let's law enforcement in Kentucky know that when I was frustrated beyond belief, it is because I was being stalked. He admitted to it.
 And now instead of law enforcement watching me, they'll be watching him. And for me, that is a relief.

More BS!! Lindgaard. You come to this forum after being banned several times and post lies about me and even a string AB Hammer to attack with lies, and you call me a stalker?  You e-mail me with BS that doesn't even make since and threats as well. You post on my you-tube with lies as well. I have a large stack of evidence ready for any legal needs due to you just wont stop attacking me. The only stalker is you James Lindgaard. 
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: PIH123 on November 04, 2015, 02:52:59 PM
When I said that the Richmond Police Dept. knows about Alan Bauldree, this includes the Madison Co. Sherriff's Dept. and the Kentucky State Patrol. He is known where I live. I'm not sure what to say sm0ky because I have made it known to local law enforcement that he was stalking me. His admitting to having posted on woodworkingtalk.com proves that. It also let's law enforcement in Kentucky know that when I was frustrated beyond belief, it is because I was being stalked. He admitted to it.
And now instead of law enforcement watching me, they'll be watching him. And for me, that is a relief.

Stefan,

You need to fix this ASAP.

Having disagreements and mildly abusive behavior is one thing.

But reporting members of this forum who you don't agree with to multiple
police agencies including local / state and sheriffs is beyond unacceptable.



This James individual has made threats of violence to other members of this forum (TK etc).
He has acted to get members of this forum in trouble with authorities, as evidenced above. 
He has no issue with disclosing where people live. (I won't repeat that evidence for obvious reasons)
There is no evidence that he has been abused or stalked by anyone here.


This is all easily verified by reading through threads he has been involved in.
Including his previously banned accounts.


He wonders why people "hide" behind pseudonyms,
and yet HE is the reason people are forced to.

He states above that he is someone that is being watched by the police.
That is not something that happens for no reason.
(I would guess that is because he has caused issues for other people in the past).
His statement above also shows he is trying to divert that law enforcement attention
to anyone who gets on his bad side.


Fix this ASAP please.


This may sound dramatic, but when his above statements show that he
is not only willing to act, but has in fact ALREADY acted on his own brand of "justice",
then this (your) forum is not a safe place.



Thanks

Pete
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hartiberlin on November 04, 2015, 04:06:20 PM
I have set Jim to Moderated status due to posting threats to other members.

I think he has some kind of persecution complex
so that he thinks, that some other people want to steal his inventions or builds..

Well Jim, nobody wants to steal your invention. if you share it here everyone
will applaud you, if it will work....

So please stop harrassing the other members. Many thanks for your understanding.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Bessler's Mt 125
Post by: hoppfield on November 06, 2015, 03:10:07 PM
  I have started building new bellows but it's not worth posting. Perpetual motion is a joke.
 Taking the time to build an actual wheel that is expected to work is a joke.