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Author Topic: Bessler's Mt 125  (Read 12278 times)

Offline hoppfield

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Bessler's Mt 125
« on: October 27, 2015, 04:59:36 PM »
  The video link is to my video showing where I am at build wise. With the attached image, please read the last statement that AB Hammer makes, my research shows I do not know blacksmithing. Mt 125 is not armoring, it is Bessler's drawing and a successful build will prove that Johann Bessler built working wheels.
  I have been heavily criticized for my work and one day hope to find out tinselkoala's identity as I do not support cyber bullying. He discredited work I did that has to do with this understanding of how Bessler's wheel worked.
 And as AB Hammer mentions about my naval service, I went to school for Propulsion Engineering. What he did in the Coast Guard remains a mystery.
  As for his comments that people do not ridicule me for having served in the Navy, he is referring to the constant discrimination that I have had to tolerate because of my service connected hearing loss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aCfloSpyMU

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Bessler's Mt 125
« on: October 27, 2015, 04:59:36 PM »

Offline hoppfield

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Re: Bessler's Mt 125
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2015, 05:11:53 PM »
 I'll see if I can also find a thread where pirate 88179 said I owed tinselkoala an apology for taking his work. he might have actually said stealing but you did delete one thread where they pursued me. if I find it, I'll post it in here so you can see the type of people you support. and with me, it would remind me of my dad being told what to do by Germans if he was caught in town.

Offline hoppfield

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Re: Bessler's Mt 125
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2015, 09:57:08 PM »
  There is one thing about this build that most would over look, if successful, it would be something that could be considered proof that Bessler was successful. I do have a youtube channel where I'll be posting my work. And since I am posting in a wood working forum, it does require me to improve on my skills even more.
  And on the humorous side of things, a successful build would probably make known the ridicule I tolerated in learning to understand Bessler's work.
 Even Wagner who ridiculed Bessler is known to those familiar with Bessler's work.  :-)
 I do have my own build that I am doing as well. It however might be become best known for it's arch supports. Cathedrals in Europe have problems because of the lack of lateral support. The design I am using might be something worth considering.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6p2S01II-6I2j46qVXnHXg/feed

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Re: Bessler's Mt 125
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2015, 09:57:08 PM »
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Offline hoppfield

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Re: Bessler's Mt 125
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2015, 11:52:06 PM »
  With this build, one expression I used was 28 sq. in. of which I was constantly harassed for using. It does have a meaning and it does have to do with this build. What 28 sq. in.'s refers to is the approximate area that 1 lb. of water would cover if it were 1 inch deep. It might actually be 27.3 cubic inches of water equals one pound of weight if someone wants to be technically correct. it also references about 0.55 oz.'s per square inch of force. Something else that needs to be known when working with water and hydraulic theory.
  By using a simple expression, then I can say 14 x 2 and know that the force in psi is about 1.1 oz. per square inch and not pounds square inch. In reality, psi might mean per square inch but since pounds or lbs. is the standard reference, it became synonymous.
  And when moving water in a pipe into a bellow, there are things that seem like they should work but won't. Myself, I've taken the time to learn these things while others have criticized me.
 And I do like my build. And unfortunately, no one will be able to claim it as their invention. As for me, my work is well documented.

Offline hoppfield

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Re: Bessler's Mt 125
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2015, 12:31:47 AM »
  There is one sad aspect to this. Technically, pirate88179, ab hammer and tinselkoala should be given credit for this build.
 They told me to prove it. It is how they teach people. It has nothing to do with my working at it because their teaching methods require obedience to them.
 And tinselkoala, since you've never made known who you are publicly, you might only be a computer program. They do exist where they interact
with people and most people can't tell the difference. This is because they don't ask for any specific information. But you have no name and no face.
 And like ab hammer, both of you will target me because of my service connected disabilities. I think that's something people like you over looked, I'm motivated so I can keep people like you and him from ruining my life. There is a reason why I consider my hearing loss a disability and am working to change how the U.S. Veteran's Administration views hearing losses.
 And with ab hammer, I did offer to help him have his knees fixed and he said no. I let my landlord's property manager know about this and he told me that he has no meniscus in his knee. It's very painful for him and he has to work. He has a family to support. So if things work out for me, I'll see if I can't help him to have his knee(s) replaced and also some financial aid since he does have a new car payment. No reason to see his credit  hurt because he needs his knee(s) fixed, is there ?

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Re: Bessler's Mt 125
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2015, 12:31:47 AM »
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Offline hoppfield

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Re: Bessler's Mt 125
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2015, 01:38:03 AM »
  If anyone is wondering, in besslerwheel.com, there is a thread on how smart someone needs to be to figure one of Bessler's wheels. My answer was someone smart enough to work at it.
 I did ask ab hammer how intelligent someone needs to be to work with someone to build something like this. He says he needs money. I am going to build on my own. I have let people in a wood working forum know that there might be a wood shop in it for me and a home to have one in if I do a good job of this.
  And with Mt 125, it will be difficult for someone to discredit Bessler or myself.

                                                                                                                 Jim Lindgaard

edited to add; Chances are I may need to limit how much the bellows open so I can time it to run continuously.
                    Still, I think it will be nice to see a part of history come to life.   ;)

Offline hoppfield

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Re: Bessler's Mt 125
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2015, 03:23:17 PM »
  The video link is to my video showing where I am at build wise. With the attached image, please read the last statement that AB Hammer makes, my research shows I do not know blacksmithing. Mt 125 is not armoring, it is Bessler's drawing and a successful build will prove that Johann Bessler built working wheels.
  I have been heavily criticized for my work and one day hope to find out tinselkoala's identity as I do not support cyber bullying. He discredited work I did that has to do with this understanding of how Bessler's wheel worked.
 And as AB Hammer mentions about my naval service, I went to school for Propulsion Engineering. What he did in the Coast Guard remains a mystery.
  As for his comments that people do not ridicule me for having served in the Navy, he is referring to the constant discrimination that I have had to tolerate because of my service connected hearing loss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aCfloSpyMU

   AB Hammer,
  This post of your from besslerwheel.com and how smart someone needs to be to realize a Bessler wheel like Mt 125. I posted work at it myself.
This is where your post about bellows in here will show in both forums you have no interest in seeing a Bessler wheel working.
  And the thread where you said I am the ultimate fraud, everyone in that thread had something in common with you, they weren't willing to build something to show Bessler was successful. So Alan, it's not just you, besslerwheel.com has many members who don't want a working Bessler wheel. It's those green dots, the ones that say you're highly regarded, status does need to be protected, doesn't it. And there have been quite a few people who asked the moderator to eliminate voting for your friends.
 And there like here, few people. And in both forums, a small group of people control it. Of course, you're also in both forums as well.

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Re: Bessler's Mt 125
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2015, 03:23:17 PM »
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Offline hoppfield

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Re: Bessler's Mt 125
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2015, 03:49:50 PM »
  With Mt 125, there are a few considerations. One is the pressure head. Since the bellows open inward towards
the axle, when the pressure head moves, it's height doesn't change.
  With a 1 inch diameter pipe (1" dia.), a pipe (riser pipe) 20 inches tall (20" L), it will hold about 9 oz.'s of water.
Why this matters is because a diameter of 1 inch (1"), it has a surface area of about 3/4" (0.75 square inches). This means
that the force acting on the volume of the bellow is about 12 oz.'s per square inch (12 oz./psi). And this means that
the force acting on the bellow needs to be greater than 12 ounces (12 oz.'s).
  The lower bellow really doesn't do anything when water is being moved to the top bellow. The problem is if the bellow
has a surface area of 12 inches (12 in^2, limber is often measured by the foot, it's a linear measurement that has more
than the length of the board, it's a reference).
 And when a bellow pumps, if the ratio of it's surface area to it's opening, then 3/4:12 shows how much work is required to
pump water by compression. And since 12/.75= 16, then to pump water by closing the bottom bellow would be
12 oz.'s x 16= 12 lbs. of force.
 Yet because weights drop because of gravity, no one thinks that a pump can work more efficiently by drawing water upwards
when in this instance, it can. And when someone realizes this, then they can consider the work being performed by a lever
dropping and the shift in force by the force of water in a bellow being shifted from one side of the wheel to the other. And if
someone is willing to do some basic math and calculate leveraged force and the volume of a bellow both open and closed, it's
not that difficult, it does take some time working at it though.

p.s., the symbol in the drawing most likely is a reference to Freemasons who require a belief in God
     to be a member. It could be Bessler's way of saying believe.
 

Offline hoppfield

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Re: Bessler's Mt 125
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2015, 06:47:56 AM »
   The 2 pictures shows some of what it takes to build something like this. Since I am using plastic as a water
  barrier, I do need to make sure it is strong enough. With the other picture, the movable part of the bellow
  is shown. I will need to remake those so they align properly with the where the "hinge" will be mounted.
   And when I finish this part, then I will need to make the trim pieces that will secure the plastic and it's 
 covering to the bellows. I do plan on this working which is why I am taking the time to do it right. And once
 the bellows are fully assembled, I will be able to test them. That's the part that I am looking forward to. I am
 hoping I'll be able to get a lot done this weekend.
  And the cut outs in the plywood the bellow assembly sitting on is my own build that I am doing It relies on
 conservation of momentum. It's something that if it works will be a slow roller at best. I have to make arch supports
 for that build. The link is to where I have been posting that build in a wood working forum.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f13/motion-machine-110609/

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Re: Bessler's Mt 125
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2015, 06:47:56 AM »
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Offline hoppfield

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Re: Bessler's Mt 125
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2015, 07:11:10 PM »
 Between last night and this morning, I made some new parts for my bellows. They'll be the part that moves.
 The black lines show where I'll need to do a little trimming on my mini-router table. After that, the retainers for
 the leather outer shell and it's lining will need to be made. I think it'll look pretty cool when I'm finished with it.  :-)
  And this is kind of why I've put the time and money into this that I have.

Offline hoppfield

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Re: Bessler's Mt 125
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2015, 02:12:23 AM »
  The parts shown in the picture are the new parts I made for the bellows. I have them trimmed and routed.
 The routing part allows for a seat for the retainer for the bellow materials. I have prepped the retainers for using #6 screws but may use 3/16 (5mm) dowels instead.
  I will do some destructive testing to see which allows for the strongest seal. And the wire in the picture is a guitar string. With guitar strings, their gauge is actually the diameter in .001 increments of an inch. I may need to use 2 guitar strings to create a proper seal that will hold up.
  I almost find it funny that if it wasn't for my medical hardship, I doubt I would have tolerated the harassment I had to in order to build this. Still, this could be my last build for that reason. As much as I like Bessler's work, the
experts don't get it.

edited toad; uploaded the wrong pic but will show all the parts I have so far that goes into the bellows, so far. I still need to make a few more.  :-)

p.s., the wood pieces with the holes drilled in them will each make 2 retainers for the materials I am using for the bellows. I'll need to separate the parts using my mini-table router. The wood is 1 1/2" wide and the retainers will be between 3/8th's and 7/16th's wide.

  There are 2 things about my showing my work, one is everyone knows what I am doing and 2, if it works, then everyone will know what it takes to build one if they want to try the same build.

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Re: Bessler's Mt 125
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2015, 02:12:23 AM »
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Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Bessler's Mt 125
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2015, 02:20:45 AM »
Excellent.  Keep doing this and stop attacking folks and you will be fine.

I hope your design works.

Bill

Offline hoppfield

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Re: Bessler's Mt 125
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2015, 03:29:18 AM »
Excellent.  Keep doing this and stop attacking folks and you will be fine.

I hope your design works.

Bill

 
   Bill,
  You don't. Read your Heron's Fountain thread.  I like what you say about me, everybody sees right through me. And if anyone reads what I said to Fatbird about you, this is it; Myself, I would recommend people take Bill's suggestion and try this.

  What am I missing Bill ? After all, you also accused me of trash talking, etc. and that's after I posted I recommend people follow your suggestion.
  I think that's attacking someone.

   FatBird,
  The picture you show is from a vidoe you posted. The things shown in the video are not possible.
What they are meant for is to encouracge discussions by people like your self who find them interesting.
 The simplest possible pm device is one that would be based on Heron's Fountain.
 There is a reason why it is called a fountain. In order for it to have this name means that 2,000 years ago,
it would have to have shot water into the air just as a fountain does today.
 What everyone seems to miss is that under pressure, there is no difference between the effects of watr and air except for corrosion.
 Myself, I would recommend people take Bill's suggestion and try this. If it works using water to create air pressure to pump water, then it should work with water presure creating air pressure to pump water. It really is the same thing between pneumatics and hydraulics. It's just that for performing work, hydraulics is more efficient.
 All I can say to you FatBird is to try it. You may be surprised by the outcome and what you might learn.
 But then, there are people more knowledgeable than myself. I mean really, what does it take to calcualte r^2Pi= surface area ? it is nothing new and when combined with h (height), then flow can be determined. it really is centuries old. But today, trying something is going against your friends.
 I am not sure why but ask your friends and they will tell you. Also, it could be Heron didn't have any friends just like Archimedes and his contemporary Pythoras.
 And no, don't ask me about the pythogorean theorem because I know nothing about heresy.
 I prefer to deal with facts, just sk my friwend  8)
 




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Offline Pirate88179
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Re: Heron's Fountain

« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2012, 07:29:59 AM »


Quote

 



Why do you persist to try to derail folks that are actually doing real experiments here?  If you are not intelligent enough to follow along, i can understand that but, please stop with the trash talk.  We do not put up with that here....you get me?  If you want to contribute something constructive, that is fine...but trashing me and TK is NOT constructive.  Post YOUR fountain that you claim is OU.  Where is it?  Oh...you can't make it but it works right?  Everyone here sees right through you so...please give it up.

Bill
« Last Edit: October 31, 2015, 02:02:50 PM by hoppfield »

Offline hoppfield

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Re: Bessler's Mt 125
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2015, 04:22:54 AM »
 This is a build I would discourage someone from doing. bellows are allowed to leak. With this build, that's not acceptable.
 There are different ways this could be built. Using denim or the blue jeans you wear, once wet, they become air tight. To
 understand this, tie some knots in your pant's legs and pull them through water. You can float on them. They're life preservers in a literal way.
  Yet to draw water upward, a seal is needed. If not, then air enters the system and water isn't lifted. A typical manual well pump
  relies on vacuum. Without it, the piston in the pump would move upward while the water remains at it's same level.
   And with sealing something that has a load placed on it, the more ridges the better. This simply means that 2 flat parts
  will probably leak. If there are grooves r ridges that increase the amount of mating surface area (think geodesic dome), the chances
of a leak decrease.

Offline SoManyWires

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Re: Bessler's Mt 125
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2015, 04:40:39 AM »
there is something admirable when anyone attempts to redefine previous  and current understanding.
if they are not hurting anyone or themselves and can find some enjoyment in the process, these are the people that deserve to be encouraged to continue with their efforts.

the studying invention motivated experimenter understands that if they make a breakthrough, it will be due to the result of their interpretation being from a different angle of design approach.
one should develop a filter for critical evaluations offered freely by outside influences, being able to filter the useful flow of knowledge they might actually be offering, or at least knowing that is how a critic prefers to be understood.

critics will always see things from their individual and sometimes shared points of view, some are based on practical research, others more based on opinion.
for example: after a caveman invented a wheel, a group of other cavepeople decided to focus on developing a lever to act as a braking system, so no one else would end up injured beyond repair like the original wheel designer was after a practical education in the effects of gravity moments after testing the new method of transportation using a hill.

there are some professional armchair critics that have never attempted to play on a field though, they can be found yelling at their tv screens mostly.
they could've scored that goal, they are usually sure of it.
they could've played a better role than some other actor they just watched on a tv show or at the movies, and are usually very good at trivia.
they race to be first in lines, skip the of idea racing ahead so they can offer to hold doors open for other people, and anyone who knows them, usually would not rely on them to want to change their tune.

there some good critics though too, they wont be found yelling at anyone to jump, instead they will try to be supportive, understanding that emotions can sometimes run high for a critic and for the less critical.
those critics know that there is much they themselves do not know, even if they can hit home runs more often than other teamplayers.
they know they could easily end up in a twisted wreck trying to push the limits of a funnycar at the time trials, so they never make such attempts at developing such a driving skill to be successful outside of baseball.
they are competitive though and want to win, and this motivation can be noticed in just about every occupational field.

sports is entertainment for most people, or a good excuse to get off the couch and go down the street to the park and throw a frisbee around or something.

most people do not have little labs set up in their garages and basements built to evaluate and or redefine theories about physics!
this is rare.
though if safety is always paramount, these are the teamplayers humanity can definitely appreciate for the useful results that raise the bar for the quality of life or making it last longer for everyone.

therefore, if you enjoy your research, please continue as you will seeing things from your own point of view, and understand that that ability might be considered a gift, even if you sometimes are seen and feel like a moth on a window screen, trying to get to a light source.

all the best

 

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