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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: Raccoon on October 17, 2015, 08:16:57 PM

Title: Bedini Arrangements Ideas
Post by: Raccoon on October 17, 2015, 08:16:57 PM
So after a lot of reading and a lot of times, I'm planning to experiment new configurations of Bedini Motors.
So the base stay the same, a Beddini motor , using the same trigger system (MHOP from Miller) thanks low voltage AOP : my old post = "Understanding Bedini AOP Improvements"

I want to build something more reliable with custom made pieces and with abilities of different configurations (actually I'm in reflexion about the cost of it).
I've recently read a lot from the forum, even if I'm not really the most active (yep not really active), but the goal again is to understand and help understanding other peoples. I'm not planning to achieve overunity or utopia things, but I just want to understand a little more about timing (electronic is always about that).

Also I should thanks TinselKoalas, Miller, and others (apologies for not quoting everyones) which have already helping me previously.
I've found very interesting researches from many others like lidmotor, nilrehob, rwg42985, ...
And I've probably keep and watched a bunch of youtubes videos for understanding.

For know I'm wondering some things and need advices about what could be done and what advantages or inconvenient one setup have.
Basically there's already a CAD file I made showing pieces of the final motor that i will share when things get adjusted and fixed.

So the things I'm wondering the most is about triggering.
If I don't miss anything there are those methods :
• Coil trigger inside a power driving coil = biffilar coil.
• Coil trigger thanks AOP offseted in place and voltage = MHOP.
• Opto Led trigger thanks AOP or other similar techniques (I'm not interested by this one).
• Different Halls effects sensors mostly if I'm right offseted in place from power coils.

So I made 2 configurations with animated gif from what I would like to test in the future :
Orange crossed circles are coils, others circles are magnet inside the rotor.
There's intentionally no triggers drawn in those diagrams, considering any possible methods.

SETUP 1 → 6x6
For 6 coils and 6 magnets on a rotor, all the 6 coils are triggered and powered at the same time, facing all the magnets.
With one rotation, it happen 6 phases powering 6 coils for a total of 6 x 6 = 36 individuals firing.
One trigger detection should be enough and simple to handle.

SETUP 2 → 6x7
For 6 coils and 7 magnets on a rotor, using an odd arrangement, only one coil is triggered at a time, facing one magnet.
With one rotation, 1 magnet facing 1 coil at a time happen 7 times per phase, with 6 phases corresponding the 6 coils.
The number of individual firing = 6 x 7 = 42 individuals firing.
Doing so would add a cost and difficulty about using 1 trigger per coil (6 triggers).

For the setups in comparisons : I'm planning 2 disc rotors and a fixed number of coils (2, 3, or 6 in maximum) !
So using different "energy path" inside Bedini isn't something new, but I'm wondering the difference between the 2 setups, about power consumption and BEMF generation.

Except using 6 triggers, does the SETUP 2 6x7 have interesting advantages?
Higher frequency doesn't mean less power consumption ?
I'm pretty sure this question has been answered before, but couldn't find it somewhere (in the forum or anywhere).

For the 2 setups, I've also think about biffilar coils, which already hold trigger at the right center position and don't need positioning adjustment from the power coil. I've researched a little and found that those could may be done thanks a hall effect sensor inside a power coil (but I'm not sure).
We should also be aware of not re-triggering by itself, maybe using a voltage offset like in the MHOP.
There is those diagrams which come from an brushless motor, we can see those halls inside coils :
( (
I've try to see this in Google photos brushless motors, but couldn't find this type of arrangement.

Does anyone have heard or checked those ideas ?
Title: Re: Bedini Arrangements Ideas
Post by: Raccoon on October 19, 2015, 02:06:06 PM
I'm sorry, thumbnail images posted before don't seems to display here, you should open it externally by copying url.

I didn't get all the time I wanted, but I've found things with this idea (regarding SETUP 2 with odd organisation) which was already made.
I'm sure, I have seen it before (thinking about it) and wanted to try it, the muller generator seems to use it with even more functionalities (lenz law cancellation ?).
So I was ignorant, and need the time to think about it :

Also, about placing a hall effect sensor in the right middle spot of a coil, it seems to be an avoided design : I never see a real picture of a brushless motor with it in google, even with intense searching. Opticall design seems after all to avoid magnetic interference and reliable after all (so I change my mind about it).

So, i will probably redesign my experimental setup, with a lot more flexibility, and probably a little more cost : Things should get updated.