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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: little ken on October 11, 2015, 12:11:31 AM

Title: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: little ken on October 11, 2015, 12:11:31 AM
Help from the experts please,,,just trying new ideas ,,,thanks
Title: Re: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: little ken on October 11, 2015, 09:57:12 PM
Animated
Title: Re: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: MagnaProp on October 12, 2015, 05:20:58 AM
Help from the experts please,,,...
Before they show up, these are the sticky spots I see. I do like the general idea you are using though. May just be a timing thing.
Title: Re: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: shylo on October 12, 2015, 10:53:38 AM
Hi Ken,
No expert here but I agree with MagnaProp on the sticky spots.
If the stator magnets were on spring loaded pivots and there were cam lobes on the rotor to push away those 2 stator magnets and once past the sticky spot they return to their original position, you would think it would work.
But I never could get it to.
artv
Title: Re: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: ayeaye on October 12, 2015, 01:06:31 PM
Oh yes, i tried this one too. It also at some moments moves by the field lines. It works almost as well as the field lines chain https://archive.org/details/Flcm3 (https://archive.org/details/Flcm3) , that is, seems to provide some overunity, but only after you make the angles exactly right. Use the same method i used to measure the energies, and please publish the results. But again, it doesn't overcome friction, and thus doesn't continuously rotate.

There is always some negative forces, in the field lines chain as well. Just, moving by field lines may provide more energy than is lost because of these negative forces. No springs or pins or anything cannot be used, this takes all energy. And no tricks help, moving magnets, rotating magnets, magnet shielding. There is no other way to get any overunity than by moving by field lines.

I think finding that slight overunity in permanent magnets is great, it shows that there may also be some overunity in the induction of some kind. But most simply ignore such minor thing, no continuous rotation, no holy grail and no socializing with evil people.

And please replicate the experiments.
Title: Re: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: forest on October 12, 2015, 02:08:04 PM
Oh yes, i tried this one too. It also at some moments moves by the field lines. It works almost as well as the field lines chain https://archive.org/details/Flcm3 (https://archive.org/details/Flcm3) , that is, seems to provide some overunity, but only after you make the angles exactly right. Use the same method i used to measure the energies, and please publish the results. But again, it doesn't overcome friction, and thus doesn't continuously rotate.

There is always some negative forces, in the field lines chain as well. Just, moving by field lines may provide more energy than is lost because of these negative forces. No springs or pins or anything cannot be used, this takes all energy. And no tricks help, moving magnets, rotating magnets, magnet shielding. There is no other way to get any overunity than by moving by field lines.

I think finding that slight overunity in permanent magnets is great, it shows that there may also be some overunity in the induction of some kind. But most simply ignore such minor thing, no continuous rotation, no holy grail and no socializing with evil people.

And please replicate the experiments.


Total sum of momentum must be zero in all static machines. If you apply force you create imbalance of momentum which is soon compensated after force is removed. That means magnetic motors can work only in two situations:
- there is external force applied continously (gravity,electric motor, electromagnet)
- two parts of magnetic motor run in opposite direction having the same but opposite momentum or one part is vibrating or moving linearly compensating the momentum of other parts
Title: Re: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: little ken on October 12, 2015, 04:02:06 PM
Before they show up, these are the sticky spots I see. I do like the general idea you are using though. May just be a timing thing.

Thank you MagnaProp for your reply, is there any type of material that could interrupt or reduce the sticking points. I have made a few improvements to the idea i will post later today or tomorrow.
Title: Re: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: little ken on October 12, 2015, 04:08:39 PM
Hi Ken,
No expert here but I agree with MagnaProp on the sticky spots.
If the stator magnets were on spring loaded pivots and there were cam lobes on the rotor to push away those 2 stator magnets and once past the sticky spot they return to their original position, you would think it would work.
But I never could get it to.
artv

Thank you shylo yes i was also thinking this also, i know it would take some energy for the device but my idea was more of a spinning interrupter i will update the drawings soon. i know there will be faults in this design but i want to explore the idea.
Title: Re: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: little ken on October 12, 2015, 04:10:47 PM
Oh yes, i tried this one too. It also at some moments moves by the field lines. It works almost as well as the field lines chain https://archive.org/details/Flcm3 (https://archive.org/details/Flcm3) , that is, seems to provide some overunity, but only after you make the angles exactly right. Use the same method i used to measure the energies, and please publish the results. But again, it doesn't overcome friction, and thus doesn't continuously rotate.

There is always some negative forces, in the field lines chain as well. Just, moving by field lines may provide more energy than is lost because of these negative forces. No springs or pins or anything cannot be used, this takes all energy. And no tricks help, moving magnets, rotating magnets, magnet shielding. There is no other way to get any overunity than by moving by field lines.

I think finding that slight overunity in permanent magnets is great, it shows that there may also be some overunity in the induction of some kind. But most simply ignore such minor thing, no continuous rotation, no holy grail and no socializing with evil people.

And please replicate the experiments.

Thank you ayeaye for the link watching and learning.
Title: Re: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: little ken on October 12, 2015, 04:14:36 PM

Total sum of momentum must be zero in all static machines. If you apply force you create imbalance of momentum which is soon compensated after force is removed. That means magnetic motors can work only in two situations:
- there is external force applied continously (gravity,electric motor, electromagnet)
- two parts of magnetic motor run in opposite direction having the same but opposite momentum or one part is vibrating or moving linearly compensating the momentum of other parts

Thank you forest i will always try to keep this in mind.
Title: Re: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: sm0ky2 on October 12, 2015, 05:03:33 PM
No... magnet shielding. There is no other way to get any overunity than by moving by field lines.


shielding in the conventional sense, is futile. 
However, as H.J. taught us, shielding, and/or the combination of differing magnetic and paramagnetic materials in the proper arrangement,
CAN change the shape, location, and "behavior" of field lines, or "lines of force", thus changing the interaction between magnets.

I agree with your way of thinking.  If we don't pay attention to the field lines, we are lost.
Title: Re: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: little ken on October 12, 2015, 05:28:01 PM
Free floating magnets
Title: Re: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: little ken on October 12, 2015, 06:33:45 PM
I have done a gif its not very good but hopefully it will give an idea.
Title: Re: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: little ken on October 12, 2015, 08:05:49 PM
Improved gif
Title: Re: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: little ken on October 12, 2015, 08:08:11 PM
shielding in the conventional sense, is futile. 
However, as H.J. taught us, shielding, and/or the combination of differing magnetic and paramagnetic materials in the proper arrangement,
CAN change the shape, location, and "behavior" of field lines, or "lines of force", thus changing the interaction between magnets.

I agree with your way of thinking.  If we don't pay attention to the field lines, we are lost.

Thank you sm0ky, could i ask who is H.J. please..
Title: Re: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: ayeaye on October 12, 2015, 08:08:27 PM
I think the shielding there is completely unnecessary. It prevents moving by field lines, and also the shield attracts, preventing the radial movement of the rotor magnet. Te radial movement, i guess there are springs on the rotor magnets or something, may be a clever idea. I think they are better to implement on the stator magnets though.

Btw, having more than one stator magnet does not give any benefit there whatsoever. Because it is dynamic, every passing the rotor magnet adds speed. Multiple stator magnets may only make sense to make it more balanced, or to make the forces symmetric, like when using magnetic bearings.

So this radial movement thing only has to be implemented on one stator magnet, which makes doing it much easier. I think it would be easier to implement when to hang the stator magnet, and let it to move radially by gravity, spring is difficult to implement.

On the image below, all is such that it can be made using paper clips and mounting tape. It may also be tied with some thread, to prevent forward movement.
Title: Re: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: ayeaye on October 13, 2015, 11:27:20 AM
Sorry, this drawing was somewhat clumsy, just first what came to mind. But it was just to give an idea. What concerns drawing, btw, i have sometimes made hand drawn drawings with gimp. But i found it much more difficult than just to draw on the paper and capture it with camera.

If you mean, the magnet moves just freely, and nothing pushes it towards the opposite magnet, then that will not work, as field lines actually repulse radially.

These magnets at angle and field lines chain, are essentally the same. Magnets can be at angle. This is all about the same theory, including the reason why there seems to be overunity.

But this, enabling the magnet to move, looks like a good idea. It works only though when the negative force is repulsion and not attraction. it should prevent the magnet from going into a greater force of repulsion, by "sliding over". Maybe with a proper balance it may even increase the propulsion, one thing of the few which i have not tried. Thus good if someone would try it. One needs only one moving stator and magnets at angle, or not at angle, on rotor, so the usual "cd fan" will do.
Title: Re: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: MagnaProp on October 13, 2015, 12:30:06 PM
Thank you MagnaProp for your reply, is there any type of material that could interrupt or reduce the sticking points. I have made a few improvements to the idea i will post later today or tomorrow.
Sorry I know of no such material. I don't think your new idea will work. The magnets move in to avoid the sticky spot but only do so by getting pushed in, meaning they offer some resistance. The resistance might be less but their repulsive acceleration will also be less since they only move back out when they are basically out of the stators repulsion field. Again I like your thinking though and don't wish to discourage you from attempting a build as I have never tried that idea.
Title: Re: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: ayeaye on October 13, 2015, 01:28:29 PM
The magnets move in to avoid the sticky spot but only do so by getting pushed in, meaning they offer some resistance.

Yes right, this is not any ideal solution. Maybe this is why i didn't try any moving magnets. Yet, i'm not sure that it will not somewhat decrease resistance, because when the magnet relents a bit, it does not hit the greatest force directly. Yet i think likely this still is not enough to overcome friction.

Btw, these are not "sticking points", as some may call them, it doesn't stick there, it goes over, but every time it decreases the speed.

About the magnetic shielding. First it doesn't improve anything, because it does not remove any symmetry. And it makes things worse because every shielding attracts, even mu metal attracts. That's the same as you put a piece of iron near a rotor magnet, the stator magnet attracts to this maybe sometimes more than to the rotor magnet.

If you want to see some mu metal, then a little piece of mu metal is inside every audio cassette. It is to shield the magnetic tape from any unwanted magnetic field.
Title: Re: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: little ken on October 13, 2015, 09:59:44 PM
Sorry, this drawing was somewhat clumsy, just first what came to mind. But it was just to give an idea. What concerns drawing, btw, i have sometimes made hand drawn drawings with gimp. But i found it much more difficult than just to draw on the paper and capture it with camera.

If you mean, the magnet moves just freely, and nothing pushes it towards the opposite magnet, then that will not work, as field lines actually repulse radially.

These magnets at angle and field lines chain, are essentally the same. Magnets can be at angle. This is all about the same theory, including the reason why there seems to be overunity.

But this, enabling the magnet to move, looks like a good idea. It works only though when the negative force is repulsion and not attraction. it should prevent the magnet from going into a greater force of repulsion, by "sliding over". Maybe with a proper balance it may even increase the propulsion, one thing of the few which i have not tried. Thus good if someone would try it. One needs only one moving stator and magnets at angle, or not at angle, on rotor, so the usual "cd fan" will do.

Thank you ayeaye for your input it is very much valued, you have given me a new idea i will do a drawing later today.
Title: Re: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: little ken on October 13, 2015, 10:14:42 PM
Sorry I know of no such material. I don't think your new idea will work. The magnets move in to avoid the sticky spot but only do so by getting pushed in, meaning they offer some resistance. The resistance might be less but their repulsive acceleration will also be less since they only move back out when they are basically out of the stators repulsion field. Again I like your thinking though and don't wish to discourage you from attempting a build as I have never tried that idea.

Thank you MagnaProp for your input, all the replies are furthering my idea's ,

Title: Re: Magnet Motor,,,,Just sharing idea's
Post by: little ken on January 03, 2016, 04:52:03 PM
Like This John