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Author Topic: Tinman's coil shorting circuit  (Read 52724 times)

Offline tinman

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #60 on: September 26, 2015, 01:48:15 PM »
Hi Brad,

Thanks for the hints. 
 

I would have two questions here:

1) Am I correct by saying that in your recent RT the created imbalance is further enhanced by disengaging the repel flux from the embedded magnet at the right moment?

2) Considering a solid state version for your recent RT,  the lack of the physical motion of mass would cause the same lack of imbalance, right? If yes, then have you found some 'tricks' to solve this, is it possible?

Thanks,
Gyula

I have not yet found a way to make a solid state version of the RT work,as the magnetic field must be in motion,not just rising and falling in magnitude. In the RT the motion increases as the magnitude decreases-this is the gaining altitude while walking down step's.

In order to make a solid state version,you would have to design a transformer where the magnetic field is not only rising and falling in magnitude,but also has motion throughout the transformer body. It would be my guess that (if it actually works as claimed)the TPU works based around the motion of a magnetic field,not the rise and fall in amplitude.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #60 on: September 26, 2015, 01:48:15 PM »

Offline penno64

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #61 on: September 26, 2015, 03:24:44 PM »
Hey Brad,

One final question if I may -

In this video at 2:35 ish you state

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpcqMPvcoW0

the only thing I've done to the motor is "remove some of the spring tension off the brushes"

Other than separate the stator coils, is that statement entirely true?

I would understand if you do not wish to answer.

Regards, Penno

Offline tinman

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #62 on: September 26, 2015, 03:59:09 PM »
Hey Brad,

One final question if I may -

In this video at 2:35 ish you state

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpcqMPvcoW0

the only thing I've done to the motor is "remove some of the spring tension off the brushes"

Other than separate the stator coils, is that statement entirely true?

I would understand if you do not wish to answer.

Regards, Penno
The information given in that video is only what i wanted the public to hear.
It is good to see some used there brain and copied the videos.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #62 on: September 26, 2015, 03:59:09 PM »
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Offline seychelles

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #63 on: September 27, 2015, 03:41:36 PM »
Hi TINman you are right on the solid state rt.. check my CRESCENDO MEG back few months i posted..
it is all there..ready to be wired up..'easy mieen ' mearcat adv

Offline seychelles

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #64 on: November 05, 2015, 02:42:41 AM »
hi all i am back in oz and if anybody got a job for me in perth i will put you in my will.
now here is an idea that i have not tested but will. this coil will by wound on the stator coil of
this motor you guys are testing. this is to reduce the back emf hopefully increasing
efficiency..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #64 on: November 05, 2015, 02:42:41 AM »
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Offline massive

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #65 on: November 05, 2015, 08:32:34 PM »

if the coil is short circuited then it would have to behave like a shade ring

Offline minnie

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #66 on: November 05, 2015, 09:03:04 PM »



 Oh,seychelles,you are a little gem!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #66 on: November 05, 2015, 09:03:04 PM »
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Offline citfta

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #67 on: November 05, 2015, 10:23:40 PM »
Thats correct. In fact, it increases motor action when the generating coil is loaded-and by a large amount-while at the same time , power consumption decreases by at least half.
If you can work out why that is, then you will work out the rest of it.

I am pretty sure I know why that is.  Is it ok to post my thoughts on this here?  I have to leave for a meeting in a while but I can post my thoughts later this evening.

Offline citfta

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #68 on: November 06, 2015, 04:34:05 PM »
Well I don't see any objections to me posting my thoughts about the motor current going down when a load is placed on the stator coil so I guess I can go ahead and post my thoughts.

To understand what is going on you first have to understand how a shunt type DC motor works.  I realize a lot of you probably already know some or maybe most of this but I will review to make it easier to follow my thoughts.  In normal use a DC shunt wound motor has a current applied to the field (stator) coils.  When armature voltage is applied the interacting magnetic fields cause the armature to rotate.  At the beginning of the rotation the armature current is only limited by the resistance of the armature.  As the armature speed begins to increase the magnetic field from the field coils begin to generate a voltage in the armature coils that opposes the applied voltage.  This is what is normally called BEMF or CEMF.  As the armature speed gets higher the BEMF goes higher also.  At a high enough speed the BEMF limits the current through the armature to the point there is only enough current flowing through the armature to overcome the friction losses and power the load.  I realize that on a lot of OU type forums BEMF is considered the enemy that must be somehow overcome.  In fact the BEMF limits the current and controls the speed of the motor.

Now what would happen if there were no current flowing through the stator coils?  There would be almost no BEMF generated and the motor would have very little torque.  Also the current will be much higher than when there is a field produced by the stator coils.   In the small motors like are being worked with in this thread there is a small amount of residual magnetism left in the stator poles to allow the rotor to rotate.  Also the armature coils are wound with wire of a small gauge which limits the current through the armature.

In large motors if the field current is lost the armature current can go up to thousands of amps or at least until something blows like a fuse or breaker.  In industrial motor controllers a sensing circuit will cut off the armature voltage if field current is lost for some reason.

In the motor Brad is showing in his video he has one stator coil shorted if I understand correctly.  This allows current to be induced in that coil which in turn produces a magnetic field to oppose the field from the armature and thus allow the motor to operate.  However since there is only one field coil energized the BEMF is weak and therefore the torque is weak and the current draw is higher than normal.

When he connects the other stator coil to a load now current is allowed to flow in that stator coil which causes the BEMF to go up.  This limits the armature current even more and creates more torque from the motor.  Thus we see the armature current go down when a load is applied to the second stator coil.

It appears he also has some other things going on with his circuit board that enhances this effect but I think basically the reason the armature current drops is because of the energizing of the second stator coil which increases the BEMF.

Brad, if I have a mistaken idea about this feel free to say so.  And if you don't want to say anymore than just that I am mistaken that is OK too.  Just trying to answer the question you posed.  By the way I think this is an ingenious way to get more power from a motor and make the motor more efficient at the same time.

Respectfully,
Carroll

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #68 on: November 06, 2015, 04:34:05 PM »
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Offline shylo

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #69 on: November 06, 2015, 11:11:34 PM »
 In normal use a DC shunt wound motor has a current applied to the field (stator) coils.
Hi Carrol,
I don't have an understanding of this. In order to have current you need R and V correct? (ohms law)?
 You have to supply voltage to get the current? (correct)

When armature voltage is applied the interacting magnetic fields cause the armature to rotate.
But tinman only uses one supply does he not?

I only connect a battery to the brushes and get rotation, I don't feed anything to the field windings, but yet they put out a voltage source, which can power a load, albeit alot less than I put in.

The single supply must make the rotor appear as constantly changing fields, as a result constantly changing fields in the stator ,but timed perfectly to cause rotation ??

I'll reread your post try to figure it out.
Thanks artv

Offline citfta

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #70 on: November 07, 2015, 01:34:48 AM »
Hi artv,

The armature rotating is changing the field to some extent as the brushes are continually making contact with a different set of segments and therefore a different set of coils.  There is probably some transformer action going on between the windings but I think most of the current coming from the stator windings is because the armature coils moving past the stator coils are acting like a generator.  I am in the process of looking for a universal motor so I can do some more testing of this idea myself.  I am pretty sure there is more to this than what I am aware of.

If you have a universal motor to work with try shorting one stator coil and drawing power from the other one.  The shorted one should cause the armature to have more torque and more stable speed and thus allow you to draw more power from the second stator coil.  This is only a guess on my part so I could be pretty wrong about this idea.

Carroll

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #70 on: November 07, 2015, 01:34:48 AM »
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Offline massive

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #71 on: November 07, 2015, 08:12:27 PM »

seychelles diagram is the same as a fly back transformer , the secondary is open so no opposition to the primary . 
a motor / generator being a rotating transformer , theres also the air gap like a FBT


 S1270003a.jpg (83.01 kB, 450x800 - viewed 380 times.)


Offline seychelles

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #72 on: November 08, 2015, 03:59:50 AM »
massive the idea came to me on the 5 nov in a flash..yes u r correct it is the same as a flyback transformer.
the idea is to divide the back emf into segments hence may be reducing its effect..
it has not been tested by me yet i though some one out there will be eager.
i am back home but not allow to experiment in my own garage. dictator at home..
but i will succeed in inventing my free energy machine..i repeat this a thousand times everyday..
this circuit can be used in any circuit that requires the reduction of the back emf..so
i propose the the stator of  a washing machine motor..or the rotor..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdeKvp-AVuw

Offline shylo

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #73 on: November 09, 2015, 11:05:11 AM »
If you have a universal motor to work with try shorting one stator coil and drawing power from the other one.  The shorted one should cause the armature to have more torque and more stable speed and thus allow you to draw more power from the second stator coil.  This is only a guess on my part so I could be pretty wrong about this idea.
 Hi Carroll, I gave that a try ,but it didn't make any difference.
I'm not sure if I'm supposed to have a magnet inserted in the core of the field winding ,maybe that's why?
One thing I did see was ,which I didn't know was possible, was that a voltage can be produced by spinning the armature with a drill , take the starts of the field coils connect them to the brushes and the ends of the coils is your output.
I was under the impression that there had to be a magnetic field present in order to produce voltage. Apparently I was wrong.
It was small 60 microvoltts, but I wonder if the fields were rewound with a much finer guage and more turns?
artv 

Offline shylo

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #74 on: November 10, 2015, 12:16:19 AM »
Wrong again, You don't even have to spin it.
I connected a cap bank to the ends of the field coils,(with a diode) and they are still charging (12hrs), slow but sure.
The only input is making the physical connections.
How do the caps charge? It's not recovery charge,(they were dead).
I do have a rotor ,with magnets on it close by, but it isn't turning.
How can spinning copper winds in the presence of stationary copper winds ,create a magnetic field without the magnets?
Or is the nearby field interacting with the coils?
artv

Sorry I spun it initially , but then realized ,it kept charging without it.

 

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