Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 514835
  • *Total Topics: 15357
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 1
  • *Guests: 7
  • *Total: 8

Author Topic: Tinman's coil shorting circuit  (Read 48826 times)

Offline Vortex1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 518
Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2015, 03:02:30 AM »
Dear Gyula

I am in agreement with your thoughts in your last post. The schematics you and penno64 offered look viable and are somewhat similar to what I posted elsewhere. In light of the new info of the second coil, I am working on a few new schematics which I will post when I am satisfied that they seem reasonable.

Another thing to ponder is Brad's use of the words BTDC and ATDC. These are terms used for IC engines to denote timing, but how do they apply to a universal motor when each small angular advancement of the rotor to a new commutator contact represents a new reset of conditions, unlike an IC engine?

 As an example, a rotor with six poles would achieve magnetic TDC every 60 degrees of rotation, while an IC engine achieves mechanical TDC every 360 degrees of shaft rotation.


 It would be better to speak of a timing diagram based on degrees of rotation, unless the terms "Before top dead center" and "after top dead center" can be made meaningful to us.

If the terms BTDC and ATDC refer somehow to one complete revolution of the shaft as in an IC engine, then how  is the timing alignment point to be understood with respect to the stators and rotor?
 
Kind regards, Vortex1 / ION

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2015, 03:02:30 AM »

Offline poynt99

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3585
Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2015, 02:30:59 PM »
I'm pretty sure he means this:

BTDC=before top dead center
ATDC=after top dead center

"TDC" being when the magnet and armature are in alignment.

Offline gotoluc

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3094
Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2015, 05:55:58 PM »
I also understand it like poynt has posted above but would explain TDC as below.

"TDC" would be where each rotor core section locks to the stator magnet.

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2015, 05:55:58 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Vortex1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 518
Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2015, 06:23:03 PM »
Just wanted to clear that issue up, I also agree that TDC is when the rotor flux for a given rotor segment is in complete alignment with the stator flux.

This occurs X times per one shaft revolution, x being the number of rotor poles (or commutator segments).

Thanks for your input guys. We are on the same page so now it's back to getting the timing for the shorting transistor and the actual shorting circuit.

I'll attempt a few schematics that might address what was meant by "shorting" i.e did Brad mean "connecting " one coil to another at a specific time (with an FET) or did he mean providing a low resistance path (FET) for the induced voltage in one or both coils at a specific time.

With only one FET switch as seen in the videos, it could get tricky.

Here is a first cut schematic which just shorts the "second coil" to stator B coil.

I straightened out some of the "tangle" to make the schematic more readable from an electronic schematic conventional viewpoint.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 02:03:47 AM by Vortex1 »

Offline gyulasun

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4003
Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2015, 12:34:51 PM »
Hi Vortex1,

Thanks for the schematic, looks good to me.  This version connects the second winding in parallel with stator coil B   i.e. I would say the second coil quasi shorts stator coil B because I assume the second coil has less L inductance in practice than stator coil B (winding space for the second coil is limited).  Nevertheless the 'short' does not represent a really low impedence like a MOSFET's on channel would insure for instance but this may not be a drawback.
Of course, some protection means are to be provided for the gate-source electrodes of the MOSFET to limit any control voltage within +/- 20V (spec for most MOSFETs including the IRF540 Brad used),  though these means are not needed to include in the first cut schematic.  8)

Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2015, 12:34:51 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Vortex1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 518
Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2015, 02:11:02 PM »
Hi Vortex1,

Thanks for the schematic, looks good to me.  This version connects the second winding in parallel with stator coil B   i.e. I would say the second coil quasi shorts stator coil B because I assume the second coil has less L inductance in practice than stator coil B (winding space for the second coil is limited).  Nevertheless the 'short' does not represent a really low impedence like a MOSFET's on channel would insure for instance but this may not be a drawback.
Of course, some protection means are to be provided for the gate-source electrodes of the MOSFET to limit any control voltage within +/- 20V (spec for most MOSFETs including the IRF540 Brad used),  though these means are not needed to include in the first cut schematic.  8)

Gyula

Agreed. The first component  I always solder in is a protection Zener gate to source.. I also keep some aluminum foil shorting the leads of the FET until I'm ready to fire up the circuit and after the protection Zener is installed.. I can't remember the last time I destroyed a FET. I left the protection Zener off for clarity, but it is always installed in my tests.

Note that the right hand side of the circuit can be flipped, putting the diode and switch at the top + of the capacitor and it will be electrically equivalent to the original. (for additional clarity and convention, but not necessary.) It does give a solid ground line across the circuit for probing with the scope.

With 3 coils we have many possible combinations of coil phasing. I usually name the stator leads that came from the brushes as "Stator Brush lead A" and "Stator Brush lead B" to convey this phasing  information to others, but did not put it on the drawings at this time since we have not been given any phasing info by Brad.

Regards, Vortex1 / ION

Offline penno64

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 458
Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2015, 10:38:07 PM »
Hey guys,


Thanks for the input and ideas.

Please consider only the components from Brad's videos.

Will be getting a look at that type of veroboard to see which way the pcb tracks run if any.

I have spent hours with only the components shown in the videos, trying all combinations and connections, with no success.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2015, 10:38:07 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline penno64

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 458
Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2015, 11:40:45 PM »
Hey Brad,

Thanks for the bone, but it was  ............

Guys, the videos clearly show only two stator coils wired directly to the PCB with no other connections. I see no other coil ?

Also, in one of the videos, Brad says that the only mod to the motor was to ease off the spring
tension to the brush.

Is it possible to use the voltage from one coil to turn on OR off the mosfet used to short the other coil?

Penno


Offline poynt99

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3585
Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2015, 02:10:57 AM »
penno,

There are hidden components under the pcb and in the motor.

It's unfortunate you've wasted so much time on this thinking all has been revealed.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2015, 02:10:57 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5745
Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2015, 07:48:22 AM »
From the little I know about this subject, something is strange.

What I find interesting is the fact that the motor runs at all with just input to the armature.

How is it that the armature induces the stators and have motor action???

Like when we have a rotor with mags and when we load the stator coils, the rotor should be dragged down, not keep going. ???

Mags


Offline Jimboot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1141
Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2015, 08:33:19 AM »
From the little I know about this subject, something is strange.

What I find interesting is the fact that the motor runs at all with just input to the armature.

How is it that the armature induces the stators and have motor action???

Like when we have a rotor with mags and when we load the stator coils, the rotor should be dragged down, not keep going. ???

Mags
Well myself and others inc TK , Luc, Slider can all get it to spin by only powering the armature as well as reduce Pin when powering a load. We didnt have the the mag in the stator with the extra coil though.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2015, 08:33:19 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5231
Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2015, 12:37:47 PM »
Hey Brad,

Thanks for the bone, but it was  ............

Guys, the videos clearly show only two stator coils wired directly to the PCB with no other connections. I see no other coil ?

Also, in one of the videos, Brad says that the only mod to the motor was to ease off the spring
tension to the brush.

Is it possible to use the voltage from one coil to turn on OR off the mosfet used to short the other coil?

Penno

The circuit i provided and the components you see were only put forward to show the measurement points-->this was explained many many times on the thread the measurements were carried out on. At no point in time(and i also made this very clear) was i going to provide the full workings or schematic for my setup. Piece by piece threw a period of a couple of years,i have shown my progress on the RT,and the effects i was finding as i went along.

Not much interest was shown until it all came together. Then it all went south,so that is where i left it as far as public display went. I am happy with what i have,but there is not much i can do with it ATM,and in the turn of resent event's,things just got that bit harder-but shit happens.

Offline penno64

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 458
Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2015, 01:07:56 PM »
Hey Brad,

Thanks for what you have given and shown. It was my bad assuming what was shown in the vids was all there was. No problem.

I do hope things turn around for you.

I think the time has come to give this free energy stuff a big rest.

Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5231
Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2015, 01:10:20 PM »
From the little I know about this subject, something is strange.

What I find interesting is the fact that the motor runs at all with just input to the armature.

How is it that the armature induces the stators and have motor action???

 

Mags

Quote
Like when we have a rotor with mags and when we load the stator coils, the rotor should be dragged down, not keep going. ???

Much like walking down steps while gaining altitude at the same time.

people just will not spend enough time to try and answer these questions-they like it all handed to them on a silver platter. The first part of the operation is simple-the magnetic field on the rotor is attracted to the steel cores of the stator. The part no one can answer is this-why dose the RT speed up when a load is placed across the stator winding's?. This should cause an apposing magnetic field,and the rotor should stop. Thing is,it dose, if the current is drawn from the stator coil in one direction. But if the current is drawn from the stator coil in the other direction,then the RT speeds up<-- this is the part no one can answer-why. The answer is quite simple if you take a close look at what is happening within the workings of the RT.


Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5231
Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2015, 01:19:16 PM »
Hey Brad,

Thanks for what you have given and shown. It was my bad assuming what was shown in the vids was all there was. No problem.

I do hope things turn around for you.



Quote
I think the time has come to give this free energy stuff a big rest.

It's not so much  !time to give it a rest!,it's more a case of who had what,and where has it gone now?.

Anyway,some one will make it work,and that some one will be the one who takes the time to work out why we can draw power from the stator coil that shows the opposite effect that the lorentz force should dictate.

 

OneLink