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Author Topic: Tinman's coil shorting circuit  (Read 48962 times)

Offline Jimboot

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2015, 02:07:15 AM »
Thanks Brad, very interesting design.


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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2015, 02:07:15 AM »

Offline poynt99

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2015, 02:35:29 PM »
Why shot to hell?

Offline verpies

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2015, 02:44:42 PM »
After the turn of recent event's,everything is shot to hell anyway.
What happened?

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2015, 02:44:42 PM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2015, 05:03:37 PM »
Why shot to hell?

Im not going to go into details,so we will leave it at that.

I have given what i have given,and the terms that go with it are very simple.
If you do not think there is anything in it,dont bother with it-dont build it.
I am not going to be like many others and try and convince you of anything-->it is a !take it or leave it! situation.

Brad

Offline Vortex1

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2015, 08:56:58 PM »
Thanks Brad

I have retyped the text of the jpg that Brad posted so that we can pull out and discuss each line item and put together a timing diagram and later hopefully a schematic.

Be sure to properly quote Brad when using these statements.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Per Brad)
Quote
Operation as follows:

Current through stator winding is induced by magnetic field of rotor.

BTDC- Stator and second inductor are shorted together so as they act as one winding,

Second inductor's current flow must be so as the magnetic field induced is the opposite to that of the PM

ATDC- second inductor becomes open from stator winding and back EMF is sent to load.

Stator B's induced current flowing is also sent to the load.

At this point (ATDC) the rotors field is the same field  as that of the PM and gives rise to rotational torque due to repulsion forces.

This torque gives the RT the torque required for the power generated at stator A and also the torque increase seen in the videos when driving a load such as the fan..

Note: When the second inductor has current flowing through it the field produced in the  steel / iron core neutralises the PM's field enough so as the rotor can be pulled towards the steel stator core and not repelled by the PM's field.

Stator A acts purely as a generating stator and the current flow through the stator is from the increasing and decreasing magnetic field of he rotor segments.

This power output is additive to that of stator B and the second inductor contained in stator B.

The Rotor segment at stator B is always a North field and at stator A, the rotors field is always a south field.

(drawing) Action:  Current  flow through rotor-magnetic field is built

(drawing) Reaction: Magnetic field induced into  stator core causing a current to flow through windings and load.

Quote EMJ Counter Reaction: Repulsion force between rotor and stator causes rotation of rotor.

The Rotary Transformer effect

(drawing) Stator face on view

Stator core

Stator windings
------------------------------------------------
In the center of the stator core is as follows:

Permanent magnet

Nylon or plastic sleeve 3mm thick

Steel or iron tube - 4mm thick

Second inductor windings

Nylon or plastic sleeve 3mm thick
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me know of any typo's that need fixing.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 03:28:47 AM by Vortex1 »

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2015, 08:56:58 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2015, 09:53:25 PM »
......
Let me know of any typo's that need fixing.


Hi Vortex1,

Thanks for typing the text, I put in bold where a typo occured if you do not mind:


"ATDC- second inductor become open from stator winding and back EMF is sent to load."   =   "becomes"

"This torque gives the RT the torque required for the power generated at stator Aand also the torqu increase seen in the videos when driving a load such as the fan."      =   "A and"  and   "torque"   

"In the center of the stator core is as folows:"   =   "follows"

I agree with discussion and creating a timing diagram and a schematic.  Maybe a bit early to ask but I am curious and would like to know where Brad may have meant the center of the stator core?
I copied a photo of a 2 pole stator core of an universal motor from one of Brad earlier videos to help visualize what kind of stator core may be under this discussion (if he means similar here of course). Do we have to drill a hole in the stator and embed a magnet?  If so, where is the center of  the stator core I wonder and sorry if this question sounds trivial...   8)

Thanks,
Gyula

EDIT:  in the meantime I figured the magnet is perhaps to be embedded into one of stator poles' center?

Offline Vortex1

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2015, 01:56:43 AM »
Hi Vortex1,

Thanks for typing the text, I put in bold where a typo occured if you do not mind:


"ATDC- second inductor become open from stator winding and back EMF is sent to load."   =   "becomes"

"This torque gives the RT the torque required for the power generated at stator Aand also the torqu increase seen in the videos when driving a load such as the fan."      =   "A and"  and   "torque"   

"In the center of the stator core is as folows:"   =   "follows"

I agree with discussion and creating a timing diagram and a schematic.  Maybe a bit early to ask but I am curious and would like to know where Brad may have meant the center of the stator core?
I copied a photo of a 2 pole stator core of an universal motor from one of Brad earlier videos to help visualize what kind of stator core may be under this discussion (if he means similar here of course). Do we have to drill a hole in the stator and embed a magnet?  If so, where is the center of  the stator core I wonder and sorry if this question sounds trivial...   8)

Thanks,
Gyula

EDIT:  in the meantime I figured the magnet is perhaps to be embedded into one of stator poles' center?

Thanks gyula, I made the corrections (I was in a hurry and out the door to the doctors when I posted that) but no excuses for my bad English.

Brad called the view a "face view" which means to me that if you were in place of the rotor and were facing the stator, then the hole would be dead center of the stator face.

This is where I drilled the hole on my first test motor., but from the outside drilling into the face.

I will have to make the hole a bit bigger to accommodate the extra coil and sleeves.

Thank you for your contributions.

PS to all: please be sure to credit Brad with the phrases and not me should you cut and paste them. This seems to have created a problem for somebody on the other forum.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2015, 01:56:43 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2015, 08:30:32 PM »
Hi Vortex1,

Thanks for your explanation, now it is clear for me where the magnet (with its iron tube and extra coil)  is to be placed.
I suspect the material for the steel or iron tube may matter from eddy current point of view, even though this second inductor winding (sitting on the outside of the iron tube) seems to have a pulsed operation. Of course this eddy current issue is my early speculation on this.   Should it matter, a ferrite bead could be used instead (though it may be difficult to find a suitable size).

Regarding the timing, first I think we should figure out whether the pulsed operation or rather the effect of it what the brushes insure for the rotation of the rotor (to work in an attraction mode) is just good for controlling the MOSFET switch or not.
As Brad wrote there is a Before and then an After TDC position for the rotor with respect to the second coil where the MOSFET is to be switched on and then off.
Question is whether a Hall or opto sensor should be used or the needed "control info" manifests in the normal change of the induced stator voltage from which we could derive the gate-source control voltage instead. From Brad's earlier writings in June I figure the latter case seems to work (i.e. no need for a Hall or opto sensor, I may be wrong here of course).

It is fortunate you already made a hole for a magnet earlier in a stator core, I assume it was for another test/project.
Unfortunately, I have no means in my home (in a block of flats) to build such setups due to lack of a lab, and I am now in pension. 

PS I hope your health is okay as per the doctors.  8)
Gyula

Offline shylo

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2015, 11:24:22 AM »
Hi Guys, In the original discussion , I don't recall any talk about drilling holes and inserting magnets.
Brad said that the only thing he wouldn't reveal was the circuit for the shorting, hence the block in his schematic.
If there were a magnet inserted in the stator core why is it not shown?
It seems like we keep getting steered away from the original set-up.
artv

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2015, 11:24:22 AM »
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Offline Vortex1

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2015, 03:17:44 PM »
Hi Guys, In the original discussion , I don't recall any talk about drilling holes and inserting magnets.
Brad said that the only thing he wouldn't reveal was the circuit for the shorting, hence the block in his schematic.
If there were a magnet inserted in the stator core why is it not shown?
It seems like we keep getting steered away from the original set-up.
artv

You are correct, we can never fully know if we have information or disinformation until a successful replication is accomplished. Indeed talk of the magnet came later, and there was no mention of a second coil at that particular time.

I often wondered if all of Steven Marks ramblings to Lindsay Mannix kept his gov't check to seed disinfo coming in the mail , so I often discount those email exchanges in favor of the videos for first hand info when researching the TPU.  Some of those exchanges have truth, some are fiction.

Each must decide for himself what is truth and what is fiction and choose the appropriate path of action.

Offline energy1234hope

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2015, 04:06:11 PM »
Hi brad (tinman)
 We all would like to thank you for all your efforts over the years. You are a bloody genius at what you do. Im sorry people don't appreciate all that you have given, but being an old fart that is incapable of building bugger all, like a lot of people who have been following these sites for five or ten years in the hope of someone that is a genius will help the release of motors or transformers that will change the world. i have the greatest respect for gotoluc and i am sure you do to with knowing him for years as well, if you could just go that one step further and get him to do a replication of your rotary transformer to shut up the noise that seems to have taken over this forum over the last few years with my deepest respect to you and yours ron

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2015, 04:06:11 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2015, 11:47:34 PM »
Hi Guys, In the original discussion , I don't recall any talk about drilling holes and inserting magnets.
Brad said that the only thing he wouldn't reveal was the circuit for the shorting, hence the block in his schematic.
If there were a magnet inserted in the stator core why is it not shown?
It seems like we keep getting steered away from the original set-up.
artv

Hi Art,

While I think Brad can defend himself, please read here what he exactly said on his setup to reveal (I put in bold the text) because he deserves correctness:

"As was clearly explained right from the start. I only posted the test results and a basic schematic for measurement points only, as MH requested that i back up my claim with evidence.  I had no intention of disclosing the device and the completed schematics as a whole, but only the results shown by the device."

The quote comes from his Reply #XXXX   June 25, 2015, 12:22:24 PM    see link here:

http://overunity.com/15395/partnered-output-coils-free-energy/msg453754/#msg453754 

Gyula

EDIT  I erased the Reply # above I gave last night   becasue it changes at random depending on whether you are logged in (#3855 or #3857) or you are a visitor only (#3862).  The link I gave is ok and leads you to Brad's quated post.   This seems to be a forum glitch...
« Last Edit: September 20, 2015, 10:55:00 AM by gyulasun »

Offline Vortex1

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2015, 04:24:57 PM »
Look closely at the RTv4 schematic from Tinman's post that you referenced. Npw ask yourself this: how is critical timing information to the FET provided when the gate drive is shown coming directly from and across the very large storage capacitor.

The best we will see across this capacitor is a very slowly changing DC potential which will drop when the load is applied. This will turn the FET on or off depending on the voltage threshold achieved, but the resulting coil shorting of coil B will not be meaningfully timed to rotation, but will lag by many seconds any critical timing required.

So maybe someone can clear this up because in light of all the talk of timed shorting of coil B, the schematic supplied does not seem to be supplying that requirement.

Some of us have reasoned that the schematic may be wrong and the signal to the FET comes directly from coil A, which would make more sense as pulses are available at that point in the circuit that are somewhat timed to rotation. We have not had this issue cleared up to date.

Also at that time there was no mention of a "second coil"

Attached is Tinman's original schematic.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2015, 10:18:32 PM »
Dear Vortex1,

Unfortunately, this term that Brad used: 'basic schematic for measurement points' can easily bare the lack of some wires that may have brought timing info from coil A, or can bare the lack of a second coil I think.

I agree that no critical timing info could come from the storage capacitor which normally filters out AC fluctuations. This is why I re-edited Brad"s schematic to remedy this issue and also showed MOSFET switch control possibilities in previous page when member penno64 posed the question on Brad's coil shorting circuit.

Penno64 showed his own schematic version in which the gate-source of the MOSFET is also biased by the stored DC voltage in the capacitor but it is biased via one of the stator coils i.e. a DC source and a pulsed AC source superposed would control the MOSFET switch. I wrote about this in Reply #7, previous page. 

Of course, now that Brad mentioned a second coil, we have to consider it and devise a new schematic proposal.

Of course, I understand the frustration Brad's incomplete "basic schematic" causes,  I have also been frustrated.

The problem is that Brad (who could be the first person to clear the issues up) wrote what he wrote recently in his Reply #18.

So we have to depend on his latest description that includes the so far "hidden" magnet, the iron tube, their position and a second inductor winding and all the previous info he gave mainly in June in the 'Partnered output coil' thread, plus his videos. This is from where we have to restart to "crack" this setup.

I wrote some thoughts in my Reply #22 above.  To continue the 'cracking', I would need opinions on how the two coils are meant to be connected,  based on what Brad wrote I quote:

"BTDC- Stator and second inductor are shorted together so as they act as one winding."

Does this mean that the two coils are in series connection and the MOSFET shorts both of them as if they were a single coil?

(Another possibility would be that the two coils gets parallel connected when  the MOSFET is on  i.e.  say the second coil "shorts" the stator coil via the switch, this would be a strange meaning for sure.)

Knowing this correctly helps better figure out a new shematic.

Gyula

Offline shylo

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Re: Tinman's coil shorting circuit
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2015, 02:19:44 AM »
Wouldn't they have to be paralleled , to act as one?
Series , the first is always different than the ,2nd.
artv

 

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