Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Custom Search

Author Topic: World's first real Free Energy Flashlight - no shaking - no batteries! No Solar  (Read 187670 times)

txt

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
If we assume the initial power consumption to be 3W the total amount of energy would be 5...6 Wh, which i would say would be a realistic value for 3 pieces of average quality AA-sized accus.
Three AA NiMH cells typically have the capacity of over 10Wh (3 x 1.3V x 2600 mAh). At some types of alkaline AA cells it could be over 15Wh.

The interesting thing now is: will it recharge ?  Normal accus don't recharge, at least not to their full initial capacity.
No accus recharge alone. It is the voltage, not the charge, that recovers. During the discharge, the chemical processes between the electrodes and the electrolyte saturate the electrodes, resulting in drop of potential (voltage). It is the dropping of the voltage, not the lack of energy that causes the LED to dim.

During the rest, the battery chemically and thermally recovers, and the voltage grows back (while the charge remains the same), and the flashlight will start again with the full (or almost full) voltage and hence luminosity. You may be able repeating it many times before you completely drain the battery. Although, the cycles will be shorter and shorter.

skywatcher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
Three AA NiMH cells typically have the capacity of over 10Wh (3 x 1.3V x 2600 mAh). At some types of alkaline AA cells it could be over 15Wh.

Only theoretically. I have tested some 2500 and 2600 mAh cells and in practice they all had less than 2000 mAh or even less.

Quote
No accus recharge alone. It is the voltage, not the charge, that recovers. During the discharge, the chemical processes between the electrodes and the electrolyte saturate the electrodes, resulting in drop of potential (voltage). It is the dropping of the voltage, not the lack of energy that causes the LED to dim.

During the rest, the battery chemically and thermally recovers, and the voltage grows back (while the charge remains the same), and the flashlight will start again with the full (or almost full) voltage and hence luminosity. You may be able repeating it many times before you completely drain the battery. Although, the cycles will be shorter and shorter.

Voltage alone means nothing, if the charge remains the same the voltage will break down immediately if you apply any load.
For a normal accu i would expect a significant brightness only for some minutes if it had been discharged some time before.

txt

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
Voltage alone means nothing, if the charge remains the same the voltage will break down immediately if you apply any load.
Only if there is no sufficient charge, which is not the case when you power a LED. It is different at other appliances, not so sensitive about the voltage - they can drain the accu indeed faster and close to the limit of their capacity. Not so at a LED - as I explained, due to the chemical changes, the voltage will drop before the charge drops significantly. This potential (the voltage, not the charge) will then recover again, after some rest. The voltage at chemical batteries is not in direct correlation only with the charge as you assume. It depends on the chemical state and on the temperature too.

skywatcher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
Only if there is no sufficient charge, which is not the case when you power a LED. It is different at other appliances, not so sensitive about the voltage - they can drain the accu indeed faster and close to the limit of their capacity. Not so at a LED - as I explained, due to the chemical changes, the voltage will drop before the charge drops significantly. This potential (the voltage, not the charge) will then recover again, after some rest. The voltage at chemical batteries is not in direct correlation only with the charge as you assume. It depends on the chemical state and on the temperature too.

Ok, so you run it down from 100% to 30%, LED goes off, you let it recover for some time, it remains at 30% charge but voltage increases so you can do another run which will run it down from 30% to 10%, etc... so the LED will work let's say 2 hrs for the first time, 30 min for the second time, etc...  until the voltage remains permanently below the minimum operation voltage for the LED.

txt

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
Ok, so you run it down from 100% to 30%, LED goes off, you let it recover for some time, it remains at 30% charge but voltage increases so you can do another run which will run it down from 30% to 10%, etc... so the LED will work let's say 2 hrs for the first time, 30 min for the second time, etc...  until the voltage remains permanently below the minimum operation voltage for the LED.
Since we did not measure the current, we cannot know how much of the charge you really drained. I would not exclude that you drained only 30% or 40% of the total charge, or even significantly less if high-capacity alkaline batteries were used. So it is hard to estimate how many cycles you will be able to do, but the times should indeed be shorter and shorter.

The effect of the batteries I am speaking about is well documented in scientific literature. It is called "relaxation effect". I just picked up the first paper from Google speaking about it - http://jes.ecsdl.org/content/141/4/982 - it refers to Li-ion batteries, so depending on the type of the battery in ELFE, it may differ a bit, but the principle is the same.

txt

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
I found another paper, explaining the voltage recovery during the relaxation period better than the one I posted above, and in greater details. This time it is the full version, not only an abstract. If you do not want to read the entire paper, look at the Fig.2 and read the couple of paragraphs above it. I am attaching also a link of the standalone diagram below the link of the PDF. It shows the voltage recovery after the load is removed. The top diagram is for initially fully charged battery; the bottom one if for a depleted battery. The ideal recovery time at Li-ion batteries is around 2 hours (that comes from another paper)

http://www.ti.com/lit/ml/slyp086/slyp086.pdf

http://m.eet.com/media/1053387/TI_Algorithms_Fig2.gif

markdansie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1471
1st testrun:

 16.02.1618:30:002600018:40:002880018:50:002870019:00:002900019:10:002890019:20:002880019:30:002870019:40:002860019:50:002820020:00:002750020:10:002620020:20:002420020:30:002000020:40:0011400

At 20:40 i switched it off because light intensity was falling rapidly.
Thanks for Sharing the results
I expect you will get a good bounce back but progressively shorter running times after each test. I am running a similar test with 3 aa nimh batteries driving three leds
Mark

skywatcher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
Update:

16.02.16    18:30:00    26000
    18:40:00    28800
    18:50:00    28700
    19:00:00    29000
    19:10:00    28900
    19:20:00    28800
    19:30:00    28700
    19:40:00    28600
    19:50:00    28200
    20:00:00    27500
    20:10:00    26200
    20:20:00    24200
    20:30:00    20000
    20:40:00    11400
       
17.02.16    18:30:00    13800
    18:35:00    10000
    18:40:00    5100

No significant recharging.  :(

I still have the contact problems, and the lamp was in a horizontal position so maybe the accus were not properly in contact with each otherduring the recharging time (maybe this is necessary for recharging ?) so i will give it another try by putting the lamp in an upright position until tomorrow so that the accus are pressed together by their own weight.

Visually the lamp still emits enough light to appear quite bright.
This shows that it is not possible to 'measure' light intensity visually, with the human eye, or with a normal video camera.
To do tests, it's absolutely necessary to *measure* the light output with a light sensor.

txt

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
Looks good, and consistent with the theory. The shaking noise you hear is typical for the ELFE battery - all users report it, but it does not seem to harm anything. My theory is that it must be the Schumann resonances that you hear there. Finally the aluminium body is the best amplifier known to man, and works for frequencies from 3Hz to 5GHz or more, so it certainly amplifies any shaking noise too!

txt

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
Regarding the insufficient contact - if there was no contact between the batteries when laying horizontally, the flashlight would not light, or would be blinking. It does not seem to be the case with your tests, as far as I understood.

... and BTW, Mr. Ivchenko of ADGEX has clearly shown that the batteries "recharge" when the switch is turned off, so it is clear that they do not need any closed circuit to "recharge", and hence any contact problems could not influence the "recharging"

skywatcher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
Looks good, and consistent with the theory. The shaking noise you hear is typical for the ELFE battery - all users report it, but it does not seem to harm anything.

The harm is that the electrical contact between the cells is interrupted quite often, and this is also quite annoying for normal use.

I had this problem in the past with other flashlights of similar style, and i used to fix it quite easily by inserting a 'blob' of crumbled aluminium foil between the negative battery contact and the switch (it has to be isolated against the metallic tube otherwise the switch will be shortened).

Quote
My theory is that it must be the Schumann resonances that you hear there. 

 :P ;D

skywatcher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
Regarding the insufficient contact - if there was no contact between the batteries when laying horizontally, the flashlight would not light, or would be blinking. It does not seem to be the case with your tests, as far as I understood.

At the beginning of each test i did some shaking to get the best possible contact.
So it might be possible that during the recharging time there was no good contact for some time.

Quote
... and BTW, Mr. Ivchenko of ADGEX has clearly shown that the batteries "recharge" when the switch is turned off, so it is clear that they do not need any closed circuit to "recharge", and hence any contact problems could not influence the "recharging"

From a conventional point of view you are right, but from this point of view it would not work anyway.
So *if* it works, there has some kind of 'magic' to be involved, which we don't understand.  ;)

txt

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
So *if* it works, there has some kind of 'magic' to be involved, which we don't understand.  ;)
I think I know the magic :)

But let's wait the results of tests of the other users. There is at least another one who was wise enough to get a luxmeter, though his ELFE is still on the way, so it may take some time. In the meantime, some other tests without the luxmeter, show degradation of brightness and times too, but the users decided to wait 14 days before the next attempt. I know about 2 of them minimally. That's if I do not count the Russian, who opened the flashlight, and measured the depletion of the batteries after 3 weeks of rest directly.

skywatcher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
Someone asked about the diameter of the bright light spot:  It has a diameter of 9 cm at 1 m distance from the front window.

skywatcher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
I have changed my test procedure:
I have discharged the ELFE until the light intensity was < 1% of the initial value.
This low light intensity is quite stable and i think it would run for days or even weeks on this level.
So i switched it off today at 0:00 when it had a light intensity of 260.

Now i will switch it on every day in the evening for 90 sec and measure the light intensity 30, 60 and 90 sec after switching it on.
Measuring immediately after switching it on makes no sense because it always starts very bright but falls down quite fast in the first seconds.

So this is the first measurement:

18.02.16    00:00:00    260       
               
                                     t=30sec    t=60sec    t=90sec
18.02.16    19:00:00    1280         1090         963

The value for 'fully charged' would be > 28000.

Let's see if it will go up or down in the next days...