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Author Topic: A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]  (Read 94339 times)

Offline ramset

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Re: A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]
« Reply #90 on: October 09, 2015, 11:39:19 PM »
Tinsel
sooo you feel one Gate is all you need to test this ? It would seem a logical assumption

I do agree with your test protocol as a stand alone example for measuring a given systems input and output, but I feel it is inappropriate to try to fit this build into _your_ frame of reference for these motors [magnet motors] and how to build them..

And to state the profoundly obvious..you [like the rest of the planet] have no actual experience on How to build a working magnet motor.

  Although one  member here [ Verpies] has seen and measured a working Wesley Gary system.. and I feel it is completely plausible that Mack has built a Rotary version,  I must add that  based on Grahams work with "that" system,  getting "There"[a running motor] from "Here" [where UFO is at the moment] will be quite maddening IMO.

Also,  asking UFO to do a rundown test on this motor in its present state would be like doing a rundown test on a half built [or less] recip with the plugs in ???

Mack has repeatedly stated the criteria for this to work....and he has not varied from that path or changed any details ..and we ain't there yet .

I have nothing but Gratitude for these researchers and their efforts.
link to page  http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20239-magnet-motor-revelation.html

respectfully

Chet K

PS

I think I will touch base with Shawn on this one [CLanZner] .

PPS
its a Double Cheeseburger Now ...





 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]
« Reply #91 on: October 10, 2015, 12:15:37 AM »
Tinsel
sooo you feel one Gate is all you need to test this ? It would seem a logical assumption
Are you pulling my leg, deliberately missing the point, or something?
With this kind of system, where you are making changes to see if the changes help or not, how are you supposed to tell, besides making good comparisons to a known and repeatable baseline? Do you just spin it by hand, and go, "See, it's working" even when it can be seen to come to a stop? How consistent can your hand spin be, especially when you have something at stake, like your precious theory?
Quote

I do agree with your test protocol as a stand alone example for measuring a given systems input and output, but I feel it is inappropriate to try to fit this build into _your_ frame of reference for these motors [magnet motors] and how to build them..

you [like the rest of the planet] have no actual experience on How to build a working magnet motor.
I have a lot of experience building and testing _claimed_ working magnet motors, probably as much or more than anyone posting here. I won't bore you with all the various videos I've produced along those lines, nor will I give details of the years I spent actually getting paid to test things like that.
But just for fun here's one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdrhC1UdDyM

You can take my advice on how to test these things or not, it's up to you. You can also re-invent the wheel if you like, but here's a tip: A square wheel doesn't roll nearly as well as a round one. How do I know this? Because..... comparison testing against a baseline shows it is true.

Quote
While one  member here [ Verpies] has seen and measured a working Wesley Gary system.. and I feel it is completely plausible that Mack has built a Rotary version,  I must add that  based on Grahams work with "that" system,  getting "There"[a running motor] from "Here" [where UFO is at the moment] will be quite maddening IMO.

Also,  asking UFO to do a rundown test on this motor in its present state would be like doing a rundown test on a recip with the plugs in ???
Have you ever seen an old VW engine running on just one cylinder, with  three spark plugs removed? Sure you have. Now add another plug, on the opposite side. Does it run better, or not? How do you know? Now take out all the plugs. Does it run better now? How do you know? You know, because you spun it with the starter motor and all plugs removed... and it didn't run. Add one plug and it lopes along miserably.... but at least you KNOW FOR SURE that adding one plug made a big difference.

Quote

Mack has repeatedly stated the criteria for this to work....and he has not varied from that path or changed any details ..and we ain't there yet .

I have nothing but Gratitude for these researchers and their efforts.

respectfully

Chet K

PS

I think I will touch base with Shawn on this one [CLanZner] .

PPS
its a Double Cheeseburger Now ...

Mack still has not produced ANY EVIDENCE that he has ever had what he claims to have had. In other words, except for the money part, he is doing exactly the same thing that HopeGirl and the Robitialles have done. He's making claims without producing evidence, and he's suckered a lot of talented people into wasting their time. And he's come up with some mighty large inconsistencies: to wit, the "NDA" and the "Cease and Desist Order" that he seems to be totally ignoring by continuing to post and to provide "information".

Go ahead, my challenge still stands. Using proper experimental methods, show that _any_ addition or improvement produces a longer runtime than a simple, bare rotor without magnets (but weights in the same place as magnets)  or external ramps will produce. Without doing the tests, you have no basis for comparison and you are simply waving your hands in the air. (By "you" I mean those people who are actually building things of course.)

In a week, a month and a year from now, there will be NO selfrunning magnet motor coming out of this. Mark my words well, and I will accept an apology (and a cheezburger) when the landlord finally calls "time" on this one.


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]
« Reply #92 on: October 10, 2015, 12:34:53 AM »


      UFO. and the Prony Brake.
      Damn good username though!
     

In the test arrangement I have described several times now, the air and bearing resistances are a repeatable load on the system. It's a built-in "Prony Brake" without adding any complicating parts.  There may be some change in bearing resistance as magnets pull in various ways, but a properly adjusted bearing system should not suffer much from this effect. It's good to use ceramic, nonmetallic bearings of course but those are pretty expensive and may be hard for some workers to find.

My hypothesis is that magnets, ramps and etc. can only add drag to the system, and can never provide a non-cancelling thrust that will propel the rotor. The way to test this hypothesis is to use a repeatable starting impulse to the rotor, so that the _same amount of energy_ can be given to it, over and over, and to use the rundown time, with the air and bearing resistances as the repeatable load, as the variable of interest.

If you have a good baseline measurement of a system that you know is inert, can't produce any noncancelled thrust, then you can know if any changes add drag, or add thrust, by simply timing the rundown and comparing to the baseline.  I propose doing stepwise measurements at each change, but if someone wants to test a full build against a baseline measurement of a blank inert rotor, that's fine with me. But TEST AGAINST A BASELINE, don't just sit there pushing with your hand and going "oh wow look at that".

If you have good data on the "blank" rundown time, and you add magnets and a ramp, and the rundown time is now shorter.... did the additions produce any thrust? If adding one ramp, or two balanced ramps, doesn't produce any thrust, but only adds drag, why would anyone suspect that adding another ramp would reverse this drag and produce thrust?

Look, all somebody needs is a weight on a string, a stopwatch, and pencil and paper to record the results (and a calculator to crunch the numbers from repeated trials). Think of how easy it would be to _prove me wrong_ if any changes actually added noncancelling thrust to this system.  UFO could do it in an afternoon, since his rotor clearly only takes a few seconds to run down for each trial (not ten minutes or an hour like some of my test builds take.)

ETA: From the Description in the YT video I linked above:
Quote
The rundown graph may be downloaded from
http://www.mediafire.com/?uwlbxuwz4fw
The control condition graph (no stator, keepers on rotor mags) is
http://www.mediafire.com/?zzgtomvn4vo
The motor drive power is precisely the same for both conditions.

I'll define here a C of P (coefficient of performance) for magnet motors.

CoPMM = (rundown time in exp. condition) / (rundown time in control condition) .

So a CoPMM over unity would be, well, ...OverUnity.
And anything else, not.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]
« Reply #92 on: October 10, 2015, 12:34:53 AM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]
« Reply #93 on: October 10, 2015, 01:59:33 AM »
Tinsel
the analogy to a recip was not  about running it on  one cylinder with fuel ,it is my opinion that a run down test of a system like this which according to the claimant requires multiple components to work in synchronicity in order to manifest a "self runner"or gain , it would be like doing a rundown test on an unfinished recip with no fuel or other prerequisite components in place.,

a worthless exercise at this stage IMO.

Yes I have spoken with many experimenters that were convinced their systems would work if only somebody would build it [somebody else]
here we have a person claiming he has built this and it works as advertised, and I know you cannot read his other contributions in many different threads at energetic ,so it is hard for you to get a feel for him beyond this awkward thread with an NDA issue.

regarding an apology should your prophesy come true ,that would infer I am insulting you in some way?
you should know I am not attempting to insult in any way.

and on that note I would hope we could keep all correspondence here free of insult and nasty innuendos.
I feel it is improper for such a group to engage this way.
we have a finite amount of resources [people who can and will build] and an infinite amount of possibilities.

just one mans opinion.
and a gentlemen's bet with benefits.... :o

respectfully
Chet K 



 

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]
« Reply #94 on: October 10, 2015, 03:19:07 AM »
Well, it seems then that according to you, the only valid test would be to compare "not running at all".... that is, just sitting there +without+ any help from Mister Hand ... and "running on its own" --- again, with no involvement of Mister Hand at all. Fine, but that makes no sense to me since we always see just what is shown in UFO's video: Mister Hand pushing the thing at various rates with various forces and from various starting positions, making the claim that "it's almost there....." . Which is nonsense. And of course, if a build doesn't run itself, it's not a complete build by definition, so can't really be tested. Right?  (insert facepalm here.)

Quote from: ME
If you have a good baseline measurement of a system that you know is inert, can't produce any noncancelled thrust, then you can know if any changes add drag, or add thrust, by simply timing the rundown and comparing to the baseline.  I propose doing stepwise measurements at each change, but if someone wants to test a full build against a baseline measurement of a blank inert rotor, that's fine with me. But TEST AGAINST A BASELINE, don't just sit there pushing with your hand and going "oh wow look at that".

There is one _real_ reason why people don't want to do the simple tests I'm proposing. They are afraid of what they will find.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]
« Reply #94 on: October 10, 2015, 03:19:07 AM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]
« Reply #95 on: October 10, 2015, 03:33:21 AM »
@TK
Quote
There is one _real_ reason why people don't want to do the simple tests I'm
proposing. They are afraid of what they will find.
If they found Zipon's that would be bad because everyone knows they can't be measured unless your a mentalist educated in the black arts. Rosemary was riding a unicorn when she took her measurements... but that's another story altogether.
AC

Offline tinman

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Re: A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]
« Reply #96 on: October 10, 2015, 03:57:43 AM »
Hey TK
Can you post that video of the steel ball rolling around the track,and it sped up slightly when you placed magnets around the track :D

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]
« Reply #96 on: October 10, 2015, 03:57:43 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]
« Reply #97 on: October 10, 2015, 05:29:28 AM »
Hey TK
Can you post that video of the steel ball rolling around the track,and it sped up slightly when you placed magnets around the track :D

Are you sure you're remembering that right? Cheese helped some but what really did the trick was the serrano peppers....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFAkGuV3QGE

Just kidding    :o     .... do you perhaps mean this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CKf5dUBmIU

Here's the final version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4num28k4EnA


For some reason Mark E. really liked this particular apparatus and demonstration series of mine. I miss him and his input greatly.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]
« Reply #98 on: October 10, 2015, 08:18:57 AM »
UFOPolitics is a real jewel, isn't he? Back in December of 2012, he announced "Officially Overunity Galore" and cited his measurements: "130/25a , 240 Ac 50 Amps...input 36v/33 A..."

Quote
Officially Overunity Galore...    Good News Guys...got It!!
 
 Overunity Galore...meccalte, Once That Is Excited Is Running Like A Charm!!
 
 130/25a , 240 Ac 50 Amps...input 36v/33 A...
 
 It Is Beautifuul!!...lovely Feeling To Let You Know...get Ready...i Will Be Here Till My Morning.
 
 Regards To All
 
 
 Ufopolitics

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/11885-my-asymmetric-electrodynamic-machines-95.html#post218245
(You may need to scroll down to find the "Officially Overunity Galore" post.)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]
« Reply #98 on: October 10, 2015, 08:18:57 AM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]
« Reply #99 on: October 10, 2015, 09:13:22 AM »
Gathering Stones ??

unless you know otherwise ...we are talking about the work of Mad Mack here,

a sincere gentleman who says this works as advertised and has had this running ,Not spinning with a timepiece and sweaty fingers crossed but "RUNNING" with gain.

please stay on topic ,if you want to hold public investigations of random individuals and their past claims and events we can dedicate a section to that ,we could call it
"Public Stoning" or something like that, personally I have learned to stay away from such, it can be a VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE !!

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]
« Reply #100 on: October 10, 2015, 05:08:30 PM »
Gathering Stones ??

unless you know otherwise ...we are talking about the work of Mad Mack here,

a sincere gentleman who says this works as advertised and has had this running ,Not spinning with a timepiece and sweaty fingers crossed but "RUNNING" with gain.

please stay on topic ,if you want to hold public investigations of random individuals and their past claims and events we can dedicate a section to that ,we could call it
"Public Stoning" or something like that, personally I have learned to stay away from such, it can be a VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE !!

Chet:

Marijuana is illegal in my state so, a public stoning is out of the question.

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]
« Reply #100 on: October 10, 2015, 05:08:30 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]
« Reply #101 on: October 10, 2015, 05:13:01 PM »
Chet, here are some solid predictions from me.

Today is the 10th of October.

In one week, that is, the 17th of October, there will be no self-running magnet motor coming from these people. But UFOPolitics and Mad Mack will still be telling everyone that they know how to build a self running magnet motor.

In one month, that is, by the 10th of November, there will be no self-running magnet motor coming from these people. But UFOPolitics and Mad Mack will still be telling everyone that they know how to build a self running magnet motor.

In one year, that is, by the 10th of October 2016, there will still be no self-running magnet motor coming from these people. By then Mad Mack will have faded off the radar, and UFOPolitics will have found some new "overunity" project that he "knows" how to make but cannot actually make.

Mark my words. These are my predictions. Every second spent on that project is time wasted, every cent spent on it is money wasted.   




Offline TinselKoala

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Re: A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]
« Reply #102 on: October 10, 2015, 05:22:36 PM »
Gathering Stones ??

unless you know otherwise ...we are talking about the work of Mad Mack here,

a sincere gentleman who says this works as advertised and has had this running ,Not spinning with a timepiece and sweaty fingers crossed but "RUNNING" with gain.
But he has provided ZERO PROOF or evidence that this CLAIM is true. He has, however, said that he is under an NDA and has received a "Cease and Desist" order.... neither of which have prevented him from Disclosing or have made him Cease or Desist. How "sincere" is that.... if a person won't honor the spirit of the documents he's signed and ignores the threatening letters from lawyers? There are only two alternatives. Either the NDA and C&D orders are bogus, in which case he isn't telling the truth and certainly isn't sincere, or they are real and he's dishonoring them by continuing to disclose and "help" people build what is someone else's protected information ... in which case he's certainly not trustworthy or sincere.
Quote
please stay on topic ,if you want to hold public investigations of random individuals and their past claims and events we can dedicate a section to that ,we could call it
"Public Stoning" or something like that, personally I have learned to stay away from such, it can be a VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE !!

UFOPolitics has chosen not to be a "random individual"... he's telling people he knows how to build something he can't build himself. And as his OWN POSTS show, he is either gravely mistaken and won't admit it... or he's just another blowhard false claimant who tells "porkies" to whomever will sit still for it and bow down to his superior knowledge.

Offline MadMack

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Are you an academic, TK?
« Reply #103 on: October 10, 2015, 08:57:23 PM »
TinselKoala

I'm glad you're privy to the details of my NDA agreement. Regardless of what you think I have not violated the letter of that agreement. As for the spirit of the agreement I have adopted the same spirit as the other signatories. If they had honored the true spirit of the agreement we wouldn't be here. And for your information the cease and desist was a demand, not an order, which I refused both publicly and privately. You read my refusal, yet you ignore that. The motor I am helping others with is not the one under restriction and the individual bits of information I have discussed is prior art. You seem to be blissfully unaware of that while you conduct your rant.

The actual motor is in the possession of my so called partners and I no longer have so much as a shed and hand tools to build anything with.
If you don't like that, tough. Get over it.

Mack

Offline PIH123

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Re: Are you an academic, TK?
« Reply #104 on: October 10, 2015, 11:47:27 PM »
TinselKoala

I'm glad you're privy to the details of my NDA agreement. Regardless of what you think I have not violated the letter of that agreement. As for the spirit of the agreement I have adopted the same spirit as the other signatories. If they had honored the true spirit of the agreement we wouldn't be here. And for your information the cease and desist was a demand, not an order, which I refused both publicly and privately. You read my refusal, yet you ignore that. The motor I am helping others with is not the one under restriction and the individual bits of information I have discussed is prior art. You seem to be blissfully unaware of that while you conduct your rant.

The actual motor is in the possession of my so called partners and I no longer have so much as a shed and hand tools to build anything with.
If you don't like that, tough. Get over it.

Mack

Mack,

TK has often claimed to have a pink unicorn in his back yard.
But he has never offered any REAL evidence for such.

So he may not be the best judge of anything.
Otherwise he would be a certain millionaire.
After all, I could make more money than that from tours,
if I had a REAL pink unicorn in my back yard from just preteen girls alone.

I think he is BS'ing, but that is just me.
But I cannot offer evidence that he does not have what he claims.
So the easiest way for him to get credibilty with me, would be to offer ANY proof.
I don't care what form it takes, but just bloviating about his pink unicorn,
is pretty lame on his part.


 

So, Why don't you just go an post a PDF or a JPG or any format really of that NDA or the Cease and Desist order.
It can't possibly be against  the NDA to show the NDA, so just go right ahead.

Man, he is going to look like such a jerk.


Showing other evidence, such as your claimed magnet motor can wait a little,
and will be so much more worth while once you have PROVED the minutea.
After all, spending 20 to 80 pages on minutea is the norm around here.



And, what fun would it be if you were to be
a "sincere gentleman teaching us crap"
(just like EMJ, the "robber"tailles, wayne etc)
if you couldn't get a couple of hundred pages going,
just like the others.


And Ramset,  Really !!!!.   Again !!!!!

 

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